To ban or not to ban Burqa
November 21st, 2006I’ve heard many stories that Christians in Afghanistan and Pakistan have to wear a badge to distinguish them, and we know that Christian women have to wear a veil if she were to enter a mosque or if she was to walk in the street in some countries like Saudi Arabia and Iran.
If the first one about Christians in Pakistan and Afghanistan is right then the law is a bigot. The second one is right with the exception to some cities or compounds where people can enjoy their freedom as for other cities where it’s not allowed to walk without a veil I think it’s their right to do so at least because the society out there are not ready to see any part of the body other than the toes therefore they cannot break this protocol yet.
Now it’s their turn to put laws and force to respect protocols not to distinguish us but to have us integrated in society, BBC World Have Your say running a poll and taking people comments about banning Burqa in Netherlands where I found many interesting opinions about the proposed ban.
Dr. H. Lauer
As a visitor throughout Afghanistan and Iran in the 1970s I put on a chadoor and burkha voluntarily to be around mosques. As a woman (from the USA) I found it a refreshing and liberating experience to be able to move around in public without being eyed as a sex object, which is the way I was brought up in a liberal westernized society where the size of my bottom and the shape of my chest determines my social worth. Guys, get a grip on why you resent so much women covering up in public. It is one way for us to overcome your social domination. Too bad. But it’s true.
Indeed it helps to avoid being eyed as a sex object but it’s still not clear to me what is the different between Niqab and Burqa and the comparison becoming harder and harder if we add Niqab, Burqa, Khimar, Chador, Hijab, Shayla to the list, you might think that these are just words referring to the same thing but it is not.
A flickr fellah have collection of four illustration that helped to understand the difference between them.
But now things aren’t any simpler, Are they going to ban Burqa and leave Niqab? or do they refer to ban both of them? to me the only difference I can see between them is that with Niqab you can see women’s eyes but not with Burqa, HEY LADIES is that kind of fashion style or is it the Burqa used in Afghanistan because of the heavy dust ? so it works as a religious symbol and eye protection, for me it sounds like it started Niqab and ended by Burqa because of the weather or ohh I don’t know but I can’t see why a dressmaker would make that style of Burqa
Tamara
I am a Canadian woman living in Amsterdam. In principle i am against the burqa as an oppression of woman, and a barrier to integration, however, I am a firm believer in democracy. The Netherlands should put this to a referendum and let the people decide.
Tamara’s opinion is also right because people might be annoyed by Burqa especially when they aren’t used to seeing it, as according to Gerard who has been in for 20 years I’ve seen a burqa once or twice
so why they are annoyed anyway? if the very minority wear it then it shouldn’t be a problem unless there is no laws to protect minorities rights and if its that big then it should be acceptable as they are representing large scope of the population.
Michael commenting on the live interviews that BBC did in Amsterdam and it seems he’s annoyed because they have interviewed men but not women when the issue is more related to women life
Michael
You have been talking about burkas for 45 minutes. Virtually all participants have been men. Do you expect anyone to take this seriously?Michael add
Burkas are being presented as oppressive to women. Here in Amsterdam there are thousands of women walking around half naked. Does it ever occur to anyone that naked women are even more oppressed?
but I guess men has something to say when it comes to Burqa, for I want “WYSIWYG” (what you see is what you get), I don’t want any surprises, maybe I can live with the Niqab but not Burqa.
Hans
Makes me ashamed to be a Dutchman. What happened to centuries of tolerance? Perhaps we need another 1941 strike in support of a different minority!
I’m not sure if I can talk about Hans’s comment as I’ve never been to Netherlands and I don’t know about the centuries of tolerance but in my country it’s very acceptable to wear your favourite flavour of head cover but Burqa would look weird while Khimar is just fine.
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To ban or not to ban Burqa…
I’ve heard many stories that Christians in Afghanistan and Pakistan have to wear a badge to distinguish them, and we know that Christian women have to wear a veil if she were to enter a mosque or if she was to walk in the street in some countrie…
Jad, the reason this ban is being proposed is because the current ruling party wants to kiss the asses of the right wingers in Dutch society who are generally thought to be a little anti-Islam. I remeber reading this somewhere but not sure where exactly.
Yes, let’s give women the freedom by taking away their right to choose what they wear.
Marvelous idea… bravo.. bravo… I am in tears.
Wouldn’t it be better to give them an education and let them decide on their own?
That’s a very good illustration. Clears up a lot.
I think for many the Burqa is seen as a sign of oppression. People say that it’s mostly the men who enforce these dress codes upon the women, but I come from a society where it’s perfectly normal to see single women choosing to wear the Burqa. She doesn’t necessarily have to have a strict husband or father who force her to wear it, even though that is the case for many women.
It is not an easy thing to decide on – if you think about utalitarianism (the greater good for the greatest amount of people) then banning it might seem reasonable as many women are bothered by it, but then again many of them are accepting of it, which in turn gets perceived as a choice. For example, my aunt wears it all the time, and when I ask her why, she said “Khaled (her husband) makes me wear it, but I’ve come to get used to it and it’s not something that really bothers me anymore.” So despite her not liking it at first, she went through several phases and now she’s at “I like it,” making this a choice which she defends. But I always wonder how it feels like to walk around anonymously, this kind of strips people of who and what they are, I never saw the value of it. So I don’t know of many women who will personally choose that, especially these days where our societies are taking timid steps towards liberalism.
If you start thinking about liberty and personal freedoms, banning this might cause some issues and question the values of such a society. And that’s another reason why it’s an issue. You will definitely hear the “you can’t claim to be free and tolerant yet ban a woman’s right to wear whatever she wants.”
The real question is how do we know whether or not it’s a choice if women are beginning to wear this in Western societies where it’s not male-dominant? And is banning this a violation of their rights?
You see Esra’a, in the case of your aunt, the problem is that she falls under the if you are a slave you will eventually will believe you are a slave principle. This is where education come in.
Banning these in an Islamic country where women have next to no rights, and where men force it and women have no real alternative is a good idea.
At the same time it is not a good idea in a Western country where the women have an alternative. The governments in Western countries better make use of their education and social networks to educate these women and then the men.
Taking the situation in a black and white manner will doom us all. Make plans according to the society.
Enlightenment through understanding not oppression.
Not necessarily. She is actually educated. She doesn’t associate the Burqa with Islam (much.) She can be very open minded – she travels, she respects and understands the beliefs of her Western friends, she doesn’t impose her views on anyone else. So what do you mean by education, if a woman is clearly educated yet makes that decision, or rather “submit’ to it?
Well, some would say it’s not their responsibility, and rightly so. You’ll see a lot of immigrants going there with the same beliefs and it’s not the Western governments’ jobs to change those beliefs in order to make them more applicable in their societies, so these women end up sticking out like a sore thumb. The responsibility lies within these women’s hands – do they introduce their views in this new environment, threatening the already existing values and cultural norms, do they adapt to this environment, or are they really oppressed and are doing this merely to have their mens’ approval? The latter is what worries most people, in my opinion. People just can’t comprehend how anything like this could ever result from an independent choice.
When I say education. I mean making them understand that they were at once forced to wear it. They have to realize the initial state.
You don’t educate them to not wear it. You educate them and what they do after that is their decision. That’s all
I seriously can’t put what I think into words. This is my weakness… frustrating.
All I know is that forcing them to not wear it is wrong in so many ways. That is all I know.
“When I say education. I mean making them understand that they were at once forced to wear it. They have to realize the initial state.”
The difficulty I think is that all religious and cultural practices have the same problems.
If a religion developed that insists people wear cowboy hats 100% of the time would you outlaw cowboy hats?
The most you can do is offer them the freedom to choose once they are grown, if in the Netherlands a grown woman’s husband cannot legally force her to wear it or beat her for not doing so that is enough, if he doesn’t like it tough.
The alternative to target minority cultures based on popularity, and what is to keep this from being done to subcultures? It would become enforced cultural stagnation, is that desirable?
I really don’t have an answer to your question. But, I think you can not regulate a personal thing like clothing. Any way, thanks for the pictures. They are very informative.
Iam an Australian muslim living in Egypt, I want to say openly that I agree with the bans put in place by various non-muslim countries, its their right to, I dont blame them for anything, but I blame those who dont like the laws imposed and yet still insist to live in non-muslim countries and want to change the laws.
If you dont like the bans, go to a muslim practising country.
i m an indian shia muslim , i observe hijab..i wear a coat n scarf.hijab is nt a compulsion in islam,its evry womens right to take decision 4 herself..in islam every thing thats important n not 4 all purpose is kept hidden.islam believs that women need protection but yes it doesnt mean losing their identity..face coverng is not required,as d face is d identity of a person.
i myself practice it n it was solely my decision to do so.and as far as education is concerned i m persuing engineering.
hijab is not an obstrution in d path of libersm or education,instead it is a respectable way of reachng success without any indecent compromises.
but yes anythng in excess is wrong.bannig it wud b wrong but limiting it 2 a degree to which islam says it 2 b practised wud b correct.Education is d only way out.