When A Nation Commits Suicide, or Crack In The Toilet
November 24th, 2006
Like many other countries, the average Iranian is a serious fan of sports, especially football. Unlike many of those countries, most of these fans have nothing else valuable in their lives. In a country where sex before marriage is illegal, listening to “good” music is technically an offense, and you may have to pay a fine if you posses a satellite receiver, this should not be surprising.
Recently, in his efforts to change everything at his will, Ahmadinejad assigned one of his allies as the head of the sports’ organization. Consequently, to find someone else to blame for Iran’s loss in the World Cup, the head of Iran’s football federation was fired. In the Islamic Republic eyes, this was nothing more than a daily practice of power. However, there were angry guys out there who voted to ban Iran from international football activities (see), until three condition are met. Looking at those three condition, it is more like asking sports to be sports, something really not possible in a politicized country like Iran.
My mom called me last night. She was so depressed, and angry at the same time, and she had a very good reason to be so. Her best friend had lost his 23-year old son a few days before. After consuming Crack, his body was found in a public toilet. My mom told me that they did their best to refrain her from seeing her son’s face, or at least what had remained of it after smashing to the ground.
It might seem very naive to jump to a conclusion from this death. But, how many other countries do you know in which people are forced to attend a two-year compulsory service, where they get to know drugs? The irony is that he was serving in the Police.
Recently, Canada proposed a bill to condemn human rights’ situation in Iran. Obviously, it was passed. Then, Iran suggested a bill against Canada, for the maltreatment of aboriginals (see).I am sure they were quite confident it won’t pass, but it is interesting to read the name of the countries who voted in favor of Iran’s plan: Belarus, North Korea, Cuba, Syria, and Myanmar (see, see). This list reminds me of a banner I had seen in an IR-backed website (see) which advocated for the “World Resistance Front”. Who are the members of that “front”? Iran, Cuba, Venezuela, Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, Sudan, Belarus, Zimbabwe, Nicaragua, North Korea, Bolivia . I think the IR can safely change their official slogan into “Naughties of The World, Unite!”.
At the end of the rope, it is screaming and trying to catch anything in sight. I am afraid when the IR goes down, so will the Iranian nation.
p.s. IR foreign minister tried to get revenge by saying “as all know it [Canada] is still a dependent country, and we sincerely hope that this country someday regains its independence” (see). I owe an apology to all my Canadian friends for this idiotic sentence.
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Arash, Today I was having coffee with an Iranian friend who really is a youth (unlike me) who expressed fear that Iran would dissolve into civil war the way that Iraq has.
There is real malaise in Iran now. You are right: there is so much drug use, so many missed opportunities, so much self-destructive behavior. On top of that, there is so much shame in Iran that most drug related deaths are passed off as car accidents. This means that there is no opportunity for others to learn from the deaths.
Oh well…
Canada and Iran have been at each other’s throats ever since the Canadian-Iranian reporter was arrested, tortured, raped, and killed when she visted Iran.
Iran did not bother to send back her body.
As a Canadian, I shamefully admit that the situation with first nations is not something to be proud of. The reservations look like 3rd world countries complete with rampant alcoholism and abuse.
I will say though that Canada is doing everything possible to fix the situation. Unfortinately, this situation is identical in Australia and America where a culture is falling apart. Its very sad.
But yeah, for Iran to critisize Canada, the “Mr. Rogers” of countries, is comical. I wonder if the “World Resistance Front” ever tells themselves, “man, who are we kidding.”
JordanR,
I wish they could even think about self-criticism.
Deep down, I think they know.
Oh, and how do you quote around here?
JordanR ,
That needs a bit of wisdom which they entirely lack.
For quoting, see this.
You know, I have yet to meet a Persian with anything kind to say about the Mullas. Don’t get me wrong, I completely agree. I just suspected I would meet one defender of the regime.
Thanks for the link!
JordanR,
Can you communicate in Persian? If so, I can lead to very serious defenders of the IR.
I have met them, they are very smart too. I don’t know how smart people can fall for this shit. It must be the whole indoctrination from birth thing.
Arash, after two years of spending everyday with a Persian, I only know two words… and they are both dirty
Jina, I am convinced that intellectuals are the first to fall for utopian solutions. Hell, universities in Canada and the west are STILL defending the genocidal communists states.
First year social studies is a giant consperacy designed to make us hate our capitolists parents
Arash, do you ever ask your parents what they thinking in 78? My gf parent’s swear they voted for the other guy, and were too afraid to confront the Islamists on the street. Plus they just got married and were, umm… enjoying each other’s company way too much to notice
Jordan,
Can you name me a university that is defending “genocidal communists states”?
What states might these be?
People defend genocidal capitalist states and these states still exist… most are capitalist…
Jina,
I do not know any person who supports the IR and/or their version of Islam and can participate in a civilized discussion which lasts over five minutes.
JordanR,
This sentence irritates me. Do you want to talk about it more?
All I need to tell them is that I am a Hindu and it doesn’t even last 1 minute.
I agree with you that Jordan’s statement irritates. What’s worse is he does it so arrogantly not knowing anything about the examples he shows.
Jordan, you are a very typical right wing racist coo coo head. Please don’t bring in your Iranian girlfriend bullshit because even KKK leaders had black women whom they fucked.
Holy crap, I am unidvertantly irratating everybody around here. I have never apologized so many times in such a short time.
When I sayed:
I was reffering to the global communists/socialists movement during the cold war. Westearn universities often gave sympathizing perspectives of any Marxists type of movement, even if the movement sent 20 million of its own people to the gullogs.
Lenon called these people “useful idiots”. People who supported idiologies without having to endure the suffering that comes along with the movement.
Stalin for some reason is not associated with the same horror as Hitler even though his death count is far worse. Same goes for the cultural revolution of China. And of course, Che, who was called the “butcher” back home, is the number one image of Marxists movements in the west.
Hey, I may be a typical right wing racist, but I am no coo coo head.
How did you come to this conclusion may I ask? I consider to hold left-wing values (pro gay marriage, pro-choice, etc..) and I am a big fan of Canada’s diversity.
I hope this clears up any confusion about my position.
I should also point out that in fact the Islamic revolution was greated with great fanfare by the intellectual left, including parts of the femenist movement, in the westearn world.
Jina, may I ask if you believe that everybody on the center-right is a “racists” and by that I mean judging someone based on genetic/skin color rather than a persons actions and ideas?
Because I must say, personally I believe racism has become more profound in extreme-left wing ideologies. I do believe that while my views are not popular with right-wingers (athiesm, pro-gay-rights, etc..), I am rarely greeted with hostility because of my liberal ideas. Where on the left, I find no matter how polite someone tries to be, if you sway too far from the accepted ideology, the conversation turns personal very quickly.
Wow, Jina, That comment you made about Jordan was way out of line. I have no idea where it came from.
And by the way wasn’t it Orwell who said something like (paraphrasing…) “some ideas are so idiotic that only intellectuals fall for them…”
Thank you Esther! I seem to be offending everyone around here and that is not my intention. I admit I have very unpopular ideas for a left-leaning blog, but I do try to be polite and respectful.
Orwell had the best quotes!
My favorite is “To see what is in front of one’s nose needs a constant struggle”.
You don’t try hard enough. Many of what you said in the other threads was downright insulting, and while it still doesn’t deserve some of the bad reactions it gets, you make no effort to present your arguments properly and with more respect.
If you want people to be as civil as you expect them to be with you, stop generalizing or employing your “holier than thou” attitude. That’s just my suggestion.
I am not even going bother to argue with you over that 20 million count or rest of your crap.
Esther,
I can spot a racist by their comments. Personally, not interweb wise, everyone who made similar comments as Jordan been a racist asshole.
Jordan is not insulting the Muslim extremist or even the mullahs, he’s insulting Muslims. That is racist. He’s insulting Persians, that is racist. Esther, move to a Western country and understand it for yourself if you don’t know what I am talking about.
Esra, I don’t think you are bing fair. True I express opinions that are not popular on this left-leaning blog, but where have I been disrespectful? If you can point out an example it would help me understand and try harder not to upset people.
I truly believe people can disagree without being disagreeable.
Jina, I happen to like Persians very much!
Jina, and Jordan,
I really think we all should try to be more polite. I suspect the first reason behind this conversation is to get to know each other. Unfortunately, sometimes our conversation reminds me of Air Farce. Even that comedy is less offensive.
Jordan,
Forget left, right, Che, and Stalin. If we were going to reiterate these labels we wouldn’t be spending our invaluable time here. Just search for any of them in Google and read all the crap which pops out.
Jina,
I understand your points and very often I agree with your ideas. However, your last comment about KKK people was really offensive. I appreciate your efforts to stop Jordan from stereotyping, but can’t we do this in a more civilized way?
Yes I agree with you Arash, thanks for saying that.
Don’t label this blog please. See how quickly you jump to conclusions? You just called an entire group blog “left-leaning” based on the opinion of 1 or 2 people. That’s exactly how you’ve been arguing since you got here. There have been people here who expressed similar opinions but maintained respect for others. Please re-visit your comments in my post about “Muslims” and criticism and you’ll find my definition of disrespectful. All comments have always been welcome - but you confuse criticism with hostility and then blame it on us being unfair to you. You then frame yourself as being “attacked” when I specifically apologized even though I didn’t consider my comments to be harsh in any way.
Agreeing with you, Jina’s posts were harsh because it resorted to name-calling, but even before this post you have been accusing him of mistreating you and I think this is why others choose to attack you personally as an option. You insist that you’re being attacked when your posts are merely being criticized.
You’re always welcome here Jordan, like anyone else is, but I’m not very fond of your attitude and exaggerations. That is my opinion, meaning it is not the collective opinion of everyone posting here, which you so claim. I’m more than happy to debate things with you but not if you take offence to absolutely everything, even when the post has nothing to do with your personal self and everything to do with your opinions and how you arrive to conclusions.
Furthermore you act as if you’re disliked on this blog - even when we praised you for giving us a great idea for a name of an entire campaign (and shirt.) What more do you want?
You got an apology more than once from me, even though I maintain my stance that I did nothing to offend you, at least not intentionally. But you took offence to mere criticism - which is not very normal. It’s not the attitude you should hold in debates.
Esra’a
I agree with you. I think it is good to have everyone here, to have more ideas, but sometimes it seems that some people are only aiming at engaging people in battles and harsh arguments. I think Jordan is more than welcome, but we really need less of name-calling and more of deliberated thoughts.
Exactly, and I think people should be ready to have their thoughts criticised. It’s natural to disagree. I still like Jordan even though he claimed that I personally attacked him (I attacked his generalizations, not his character.) Even after I apologized I am still apparently guilty of attacks.
Let’s take this incident as a lesson for the future, and I hope more people here understand the significance of respect even in times of disagreeance. This website will have no meaning if we resort to insults as opposed to intelligent debates. We’re here to make friends, not enemies.
Well said.
Can you tell me how that was offensive so maybe I won’t repeat it again.
Jina,
This might be a very conservative point of view.
In the real life, I am a researcher. I have never used a f-word in one of my presentations or papers. I assume that’s because they are irrelevant to the subject. Of course they gain you temporal power, because people are offended, but in the long run they bring nothing to the discussion.
Arash, you are comparing apples with oranges.
Esra’a, Jina, Arash:
I am not sure about Jordan’s comments on other posts, but I have never found him offensive. (Of course, I do not take offense easily. I also come from a sarcastic family: sarcsm *can* get you in trouble.) But I am surprised that no one seems able to explain to Jina what was offensive in this comment:
“coo coo head” is just silly. “Racist?” Why? I don’t see evidence of it in his comments here. “KKK leaders…” where the f*** did that come from? And why is it relevant? If I were Jordan’s girlfriend I would be hopping mad. What a put-down.
Why are we chasing away people who want to engage in discussion? I see it so often. There is an assumption that people who disagree with us are yelling at us, when I think they are just challenging us. I don’t think we should be chasing people away who are engaging in real argument (rather than sloganeering). We should be addressing their points logically.
Jina,
I told you! I am a very conservative person, I guess.
Esther,
I agree with you. What I asked for, to be a bit more polite. Maybe that’s too much to ask for.
Jordan goes over the limit many times, and yes he does use his “girlfriend” to make up for his, not racism, maybe hatred? “Iranians are generally stupid. But hey, I have an Iranian girlfriend.” I just don’t buy that, and it’s just as silly as all the insults here.
He is also very discouraging. “Your mission will never work,” etc, and claims that Muslims don’t have the logic required to argue properly.
If that’s not insulting or offensive to you, it is to me. He basically calls Muslims (and pretty much everyone from the Eastern hemisphere) “stupid” and then claims to be “joking” because his girlfriend is Iranian.
He was hardly joking in his posts, anyways. They’re full of baseless assumptions and insults. If he wants to cry and be dramatic about it, he can go do it elsewhere. It’s not what this place is for.
And Esther, Jina’s terminology is sometimes meant to be playful. Sure that was way out of line and uncalled for, but Jordan implies similar things by sugar-coating his statements.
In any case he is no longer with us, he says he has better blogs to post in, and I guess that means blogs that allow him to act like a dramatic child.
Please tell me where else this happened? The amount of returning visitors we get is more than the amount of unique visitors. We have a lot of loyal commenters with different opinions and different cultural backgrounds, we have NO problem discussing controversial things with them.
Jordan wasn’t here to debate. He was here to enforce his opinions, insult ours, and then claim that we’re too “blind” to see the “truth.” Really, am I not supposed to articulate a reaction for this? Moreover, where did anybody but Jina here insult him? He considers everything an “attack.” Criticism is not an attack on character - it’s being baffled and insulted by someone’s opinion. And yes, of course he has the right to have and maintain such an opinion, but when I attack it, he should not be insulted. But he gets insulted, and he changes the topic of discussion to where it revolves around him and his personality. I don’t know what it is, maybe it’s his low self-esteem. He’s obviously not confident with his positions if he keeps talking about how “hurt” he is over our reactions rather than engaging in actual discussion.
We have over 1,000 comments here, about 500 of which were from returning visitors, many of which still come back and argue with us about things we’re passionate about (and things they’re very critical of, Islam is just one of them.) The reason why they come back is because they did engage in discussions with us and they did enjoy it, otherwise why would people, even the most sensitive writers of the blogosphere, constantly link to this place as a healthy and interesting place for discussions? Because we treat everyone the way Jordan claimed to be treated? No.
Don’t take Jordan as an example to what usually goes on here. It is not. Jordan just likes the attention all of this stirs up, and I have no idea why we’re even talking about this still. Every argument ends up being about him. Even AFTER apologies, he whines. It’s irritating. I’m not going to baby sit and appease his feelings if he’s not up for a heated yet healthy discussion.
That said, yes Jina’s comment was way out of line. But it was written after like, 20 comments of Jordan just kicking and screaming in other posts. When it happens again, I’ll clean it up. I just don’t want that atmosphere here at all.
Esra’a
Again, a very long piece by you.
Sorry Arash.
I just don’t think it’s fair to claim that we’re chasing people off without knowing the background behind Jordan’s immaturity and unwillingness to work with us.
Clarity sometimes comes with length.
Esra’a
Don’t be sorry! I just tried to make the situation a bit less tense.
And by the way, for you, clarity always comes with length.
Go through all his comments on this site.
I have the urge to insult your logic. He assumes that his comments are not racist because he has an Iranian girlfriend. I made a valid point by saying that KKK guys had black women whom they fucked. Would that make the KKK guys any less racist? Just because you are sleeping with someone doesn’t make you any less racist. It seem like racism is something you have to experience to understand in your case.
If I were her I would be mad at him for HIS racist remarks toward her own ethnicity/nationality/religion(assuming she’s Muslim)…
He is not debating, he is insulting and abusive. Unless you have a different meaning for the term debate…
Challenge is when a person offers an intellectual argument and gives us the chance to debate it intellectually. He says something like Iranians sucks, Islam suck… kinda hard to argue against that crap except with many words that start with f.
Islam sucks… ok Esra’a and few other tried to debate logically but he kept on saying Islam sucks… Iranians sucks… I am not a racist because I have an Iranian girlfriend. Is this the first time you encountered a person like this? I’ll tell you something, I encounter people like him on an almost daily bases and only word they understand is the f word.
Conservative according to the other part of the world.
Malcom X said “We are nonviolent with people who are nonviolent with us.” That’s the logic I use. If you are insulting I will also be insulting. Very simple, no?
While I personally don’t follow that logic, I’ll add once more that he was given many chances to present his arguments differently. He never did, and then claimed to be insulted even after I showered him with apologies. Really, and I’ll be honest here, I’m very glad he left and spared us the drama. This is for people willing to debate. Not for children to cry when their views are being contested.
Somehow I missed all of those comments from Jordan. I do not have time to reply to all questions, will try to make time later.
I would say “Islam sucks” is not an argument; it’s a slogan. You are right. It doesn’t make sense to respond to that.
As I wrote, I was only responding to comments on this particular post. I did not see the other comments you referred to, and they were not made here.