Why Are We So Secretive?
Why is everyone in Saudi Arabia so secretive?
Honestly, it has gotten ridiculous. Not only are we very hush-hush when it comes to politics -our “politicians” never give us the information we want, or any information at all, for that matter- but also in our personal lives.
People will still try and keep everything personal a secret, even from their loved ones. And when whatever it is they are trying to hide; whether it be a broken marriage, a high school drop-out, or any other thing that I feel is not as big a tragedy as most people might think, is so painstakingly obvious to their aforementioned loved one, their loved one will ignore it, and let who ever it is that is hiding a secret (that should be talked about) go on pretending everything is just fine and dandy.
It’s so frustrating. We, as a people, need to be open about everything! Nothing should be considered “dirty laundry”, or even taboo.
Like when we were kids. Everything was popsicles and running through the sprinklers in our underwear.
Those were the days.
What about where you’re from? Are people more open and trusting?
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What baffles me the most is the things that remain taboos and secrets yet many people are guilty of them, like alcohol and sex amongst our youth. Many of them are guilty of it, and yet it remains their ‘secrets.’ If they also know that many people do it, why can’t they talk about it at least? Even if it’s wrong, it shouldn’t remain a taboo. Discussing it might explain a lot of things, and when it becomes a ‘secret,’ a lot of people are tempted to share that secret and thus become guilty of such mistakes.
I suggest that people just start talking, despite the consequences. If not about political matters then at least about these social issues including homosexuality, or even premarital sex and pregnancy. It matters to a large percentage of our populations.
Also, secrecy is a direct result of fear. An example to support this statement is when I was a kid, a friend of mine saw me playing on the swing and then yelled, “I SAW YOUR UNDERWEAR!”
And I said, “oh my God, don’t tell our parents.” Because we both feared their reaction.
So it became our little secret. Even though a few years before that, we were young enough to swim in the pool naked. We grew up believing that we can’t share these moments anymore because society says it’s “wrong.”
It has to do with how we’re being socialized. Sort of like an automatic reaction, you just accept the restrictions without questioning them and you maintain your need to have your secrets. It’s fucked up but we all still do it without thinking twice about it.
And in our Arab and Muslim societies people inevitably have more secrets than those who are able to freely drink, have sex, or even be gay without facing dire consequences the way we do.
Hey you two YTHAT’s what the ’60s in California and uh NewYorkCity, and finally the ’70s for the rest of the country was all about! And better yet there wasn’t any AIDS and very little cocaine or heroin (except in parts of Calif. and NYC, of course). So, did it solve anything? Nope. Will most baby-boomers boast that it was still alot of fun? Probably! It wasn’t planned; the Univ. Campuses were electicized by political and free-wheeling social issues discussion. Sorry, but in your societies, you have no center, and is is probably just as well. You will probably avoid the mistakes we made/ are still making.
No really I think the situation is alot more complex. You don’t have much freedom to “make mistakes” whatever those mistakes are and talk about them…as long as these basic civil liberties are denied, you are forced to focus on the spiritual issues which I am talking about all the time. This is could be a good thing. Some will listen and most won’t. Perhaps for the few who do, it will be worth the repression
regards from an unrepressed society in Japan.
hi Sarah,
First of all i feel really sorry for you, I mean I have empathy for you…..yes empathy because I will never be able to understand completely how you feel and also because what you wrote seems to come right from your heart…it must be so frustrating as you say….I come from a country where taboos mean nothing, there are no taboos, or maybe they exist but in a so different way….For instance in my country Esra would have made her coming out a long time ago, and by now you should all know that she is a lesbian but more than that not the person she pretends to be, she lies about her sexuality, maybe even her sex and lies also about her age….that’s very very sad, I felt bad when I saw (s)he was the first one to answer you back because she belongs to that kind of people who take such a big part in this “secretive/destructive” machine you were talking about.
One of the reasons why people of your countries are so secretive is because of your religion which is based on things that a human being can not possibly respect…there is a constant inside fight with your human nature and what your religion/family is asking you and this inside fight will always genarate lies in order to save the appearance. Pathetic.
Hugs.
Nat.
Sarah-
I am not expert on Muslim society…though I don’t think it takes a rocket scientist to know it is pretty closed…especially for females.
So let me try to answer your question more from a social/psychological perspective.
In the USA…with all our freedoms…people also tended to keep their personal baggage to themselves. Endo infers, I think, that with the cultural revolution from the 50′s through the 70′s…folks kind of went overboard and just let it all hang out (have you seen Jerry Springer yet?).
There needs to be a balance…of freedom and responsibility…but I utterly hate oppression and I think I would prefer anarchy to what you have in SA.
But let me share a basic theory I have and believe to be very true: “any powerful emotion or drive that does not have a healthy medium of expression will be expressed, but will likely be expressed symtomatically”.
In the USA, until the 70′s-80′s people did not talk about things like:
Child abuse
Molestation
Spouse Abuse
Incest
Male-male rape
Clergy molestation
Alcoholism
Much of the mental illness
Homosexuality
And even the less extremes like self-doubt, fear, etc.
As a therapsit type…I have seen the results of repression of emotion and ideas. I have also seen the results of abuse of freedoms.
But I words and behavior are different things. To not even be able to discuss what is making you crazy is, to me…akin to a form of slavery and mentally very destructive.
Natalie…why are you saying those things about Esra’a…though very likely lies…what does her personal life have to do with anything here and why would you say such vicious things?
Interesting how you would come to such an embarrassing claim which only reflects your own insecurity, Nathalie, whoever you are. Since your IP says you’re based in Belgium I would assume that you’re one of those jealous folks who achieved nothing in their lives, so you resort to insulting others who actually do achieve things. Perhaps lying about yourself and others is your secret? Apparently people in open societies like Belgium also have their many secrets, they just cope with them by making fools out of themselves. Quite a generalization I’m making right? Maybe it’s not everyone there. Maybe it’s just you who all of us should feel really sorry for.
Your laughable claims fall on their face especially after I tell you that I actually met many of the people who post and comment here, and as for lying about my sex, I assume you’ve yet to listen to the podcasts I’ve shared with people here?
Okay you caught me, I’m actually a transexual horse in disguise. Our little secret, alright?
Natalie is correct…Esra’a is a homo…I am actually George Bush Jr. and I admit that I have regular affairs with male sheep (I ram rams).
Jina is an effeminate little fag…and Endo River is actually Bendover Giver.
A very very positive and illuminating contribution to the discussion…
Esra’a…which gay bar are we meeting at tonight…? Oh and please..no lamb chops…could be a friend of mine.
Elton John refuses to sell me his albums because he’s not half as gay as I am, he was always known as the world’s most homosexual being but these days it seems as though I’m standing right smack in the center of the world’s biggest gay stage.
In fact, I think 99% of young single Muslim women are gay, and Nathalie’s just angry because none of us would accept her marriage proposals.
Eat your heart out little Nat. We only go out with the smart ones.
Yes, as you say, quite a generalization….the fact that you checked my IP is just one more proof that you are not that clean….When I said to Sarah that i felt sorry for her, it was not in a bad way, it meant that I really feel empathy for her, which is a very pure feeling….why are you so aggressive? why do you assume so much? Why would I be jealous on you? Have you achieved anything in your life so far that would make me so freaking jealous? I have nothing to hide…I work in a society and earn 3500 euros a month that doesn’t make me someone rich but that doesn’t make me someone jealous either….your aggressivity really embarrassed me. I won’t come here anymore
apparently “truthtellingperson” are not welcome, so here we go again….secretive….truth doesn’t definitely make a part of your culture.
I’m sure you will close all that by saying something very clever or funny that will gather everyone by your side….so be it. You know who you are, right, that’s enough for me. And the fact that you have met people from this place doesn’t mean they know how you feel inside, it’s not written on your face. The difference between you and me dear “Esra”is that i’m not as mean and frustrated as you are, I was just sad you were a liar, nothing much than that.
Nat.
How impressive. Consider buying a personality with that.
I checked your IP because it’s safer to know the geography of some of our annoying posters. It makes humiliating them more fun when they choose to mess with me or one of our other writers. Go eat a Belgian waffle with extra syrup to clear up your bitter attitude which we certainly don’t need here.
As for ‘truth telling’ person, I’ve never met a Beligian in my life nor did I ever visit Belgium. In other words you’re a stranger insisting that I’m a lesbian, which I couldn’t help but find hilarious. Really, do you blame me for laughing? Who are you to define me?
In any case, you do seem to misunderstand Sarah’s post, as well as our religion which has very little to do with this. Lying and choosing to keep a secret are two different things. When the government for example are keeping secrets from us, that is not lying. It is misleading, and perhaps manipulative, but it’s not outright ‘lying,’ something I apaprently do everyday according to your homo self. As for Islam, my religion which I respect greatly, it’s how people choose to practice this religion, it has nothing to do with the Koran itself which you have implied. I feel sorry for not only your outlandish and what seems like ‘jealous’ reactions to this website, but also for your apparent ignorance and lack of a personality.
But 3,500, huh? Call me sometime. I could use some of your income.
3,500 is a basic salary here….most of my friends earn much than me…and of course no, it’s not impressive….what a weird reaction you’re having there…
I’m a belgian and you tell me “go eat a waffle”, it’s so mean, it’s like I would be telling you “go eat a couscous”. And about being jealous of a website…lol….Jesus!
Catfight…catfight!!!!!!!!!
Esra’a…
I suggest this now ends…entertainment value is gone and it will deteriorate from funny to moronic
In fact…may I suggest you delete Nats. remarks and our respones to her so we don’t distract from a very interesting and important topic?
Couscous? That would work if I was actually Moroccan.
Congratulate them. They must lead exciting existences with that much money.
What an interesting acronym you have used, “lol.” In my gay world, this means “look out ladies.” Get it? Because I’m homosexual.
Am I being enough of a lesbian for you? You see, I can be anything I want. Howie once convinced me that I was a transexual Jew from Taiwan. It really worked, and now you are convincing me that I am a lesbian. Really, I have so much to owe this site which is helping me expose my so many secrets.
Howie, I’d delete them if she didn’t make relevant remarks which she did. I’d like to see her supporting her claim that our religion is leading to this world of ‘secrecy.’
Enlighten us, Nat.
Nathalie, go shoot yourself, you’ll be doing humanity a huge favour.
and old man Howie…. shush… Jina enjoying this.
OK…
Then..hey Nate…why not just get onto the topic and try to contribute something worthwhile? You know…save speculation for the stock or real estate market.
Jina—
OK then:
Little does Nate know how close she comes to a Lesbian comment with this remark;
“go eat a couscousâ€.
I am not interested in reading baseless accusations that have nothing to do with this topic.
Islam has no part in the damage my society has brought upon itself. Ignorance is what you are basing your claims upon. I cannot believe you are not embarassed to admit that you fell for the whole “Islam = terror and opression” story the media has been feeding you.
That, is what is pathetic.
Sarah is going to chock us for derailing her post but it’s good to have fun sometimes… come to think of it the google ranking for “gay arab porn” for this site is gona go up.
What bothers me with our nations is mostly people who love to play the role of God, saying you’re damned to Hell if you do this or if you do that, which shouldn’t be the case. In fact I consider it to be a huge insult to Islam when people assume that God has taken a specific decision. “God is really angry with you right now.” This fear, the fear of having someone imply that God will not forgive you for something you did (or for someone you are, such as being a homosexual, or for willingly marrying a non-Muslim), causes people to let these things serve as secrets rather than sharing them with everyone to celebrate diversity.
This is not something that Islam promotes, especially since Islam values patience, forgiveness, and happiness. In an ideal world secrets would not exist, but then again wouldn’t that take away the excitement from this life? A life without secrets sounds boring and eventless to me, and based on this conclusion I’ll say that it depends on the secrets that you hold. Not on the fact that you are keeping a secret. If such secrets make you happier, then so be it, but if these secrets make you safer but unhappy with your reality, that is when it becomes a problem. Islam does not want the latter, because in my eyes God is indeed merciful and more understanding than what most people might think.
And in our society, that is a major problem. Our social issues. Anything from alcohol, homosexuality, sex, drugs, religious doubts, are all kept secrets and in the long run it is really hurting how we are functioning. We are in dire need of public forums to debate these things, to say that it is in fact normal and that you can turn to many things, religion included, to help yourself find out who you are and what you really want. Keeping all of these things as secrets do not help us confront these problems and thus we can never tackle them.
The political aspect of this is much more complex and is in need of a thread of its own, but I think our ‘bigger’ and more consequential secrets are really the ones that aren’t given enough attention. Our youth suffers greatly from these things, it’s about time we face our reality and try to make sense of it.
Sarah-
Aside from our little side track into the bizzare…what are your thoughts on the relavent comments made by Endo, Esra’a and myself?
I still vote for deleting the irrelavent comments…that was absurd and contributed nothing…esp. nothing much to Sarah..besides maybe the “blame Islam” topic.
Nate-
Oh…I think maybe you should come to this site…and if you have reasonable ideas and criticsim…you should share it…
But you started out with wild accusations that were completely irrelavent and just really bad taste. But if you want to learn…then stick around…but show some respect (except to Jina…I encourage you to insult him)
If she’s willing to play nice she’s more than welcome here, but let’s just ignore claims of homosexuality and discuss the topic at hand. Nathalie blamed Islam. I have yet to know why. There are more Muslims living outside the Arab world than there are in our sheltered societies, so who IS to blame if not our religion? There are millions of Muslims who are perfectly capable of functioning under an open society like the U.S., where people can get away with saying almost anything. These people remain to be devout Muslims however, so? How is Islam an issue? I bet some ex-Muslim Arabs would assume the same thing.
But let me say something to the people who would come to that conclusion -
Just because Islam says something is wrong, it does NOT mean that you can’t discuss it. Just as long as you personally are not guilty of it, I fail to see the problem in talking about it or helping someone open up about such a problem.
As for our political systems, and us not having the free flow of information, I don’t think we even have that to blame since even the biggest democracies in the world such as the U.S suffer some of those censorship issues as well. It has much more to do with us as citizens. I blame us as nations for ignoring this secrecy problem enough for it to expand into a huge one, one we could barely handle anymore. I wrote often about taboos such as homosexuality and premarital sex here, but no one even discusses them at great lengths as I would’ve expected because I think people still believe they’re not ready to confront these things. But the more we put it off the more ‘wrong’ being guilty of these things is, and consequently, the more our youth will suffer.
No more goofing around, I will delete irrelevant posts from now on.
Sarah and Esra’a,
I know what you guys are talking about. It’s the same case in South Asia, in fact, many women even commit suicide when a marriage fails. Same goes for the parents, but male committing suicide after a failed marriage is very rare.
When I was in school the girls and boys were always divided, we’ll sit in the same class room, but on two different sides, we weren’t allowed to mingle with each other or talk with each other. It is inappropriate for a girl to talk to a boy. Of course if a boy goes and talks to a girls, it’s okay to a point.
If a boy or girl who are just 8 touch one another even by accident and an adult notice it… ohh dear lord… I think you know what will happen.
When it comes to sex, huge number of people, mostly woman don’t know what sex or where babies come from till they get married and in a way their husbands rape them or some stranger. When they are rapped they simply don’t know what is going on, of course they’ll know what rape is after they are rapped and the society punishes them for being rapped. This is so sad, taboo about sex education has a huge disadvantage to women and this is one of them.
Notice my list of taboo topics?
Interesting that it is almost always sexual issues that cause a whole bunch of the trouble…a drive that will STILL have not really figured out how to deal with.
I have developed some expertise in this area…primarily from spending a great deal of time alone practicing.
Loved these!!!
Woody Allen
I don’t want to become immortal through my work. I want to become immortal through not dying.
I’m not afraid of dying – I just don’t want to be there when it happens!