‘Nuff said, on such “morally fixed” dialogue….and “antisemitism” is always the default playing card to be whipped out….in my opinion, Egypt should adopt a far more isolationist stance, and not let their desire for peace interfere with rational measures for internal security and Israeli/American pity-partying….

Middle East Youth for Receipe Sharing

or

Middle East Youth the Salavation of the California Desert Kangaroo Rat?

We get excited…and then go back and think…we both have problems with people who get excited and don’t think very much.

Friends until the oil runs out and Baharinis go back to pearl diving and until the money runs back and Americans go back to buffalo hunting…

Shit…no more buffalo!!!

Any job openings for pearl divers?

By the way, that picture of the girl vomiting into an airplane bag wasn’t me. That was my Omani friend Iman. I haven’t posted a picture of me yet, I don’t wanna make the other girls here jealous.

“Can we all just forget this ever happened and go out for shwaramas or something?”

To all who come to this blog…this is why I love this woman. Passion, caring and ultimately a deep desire for reconciliation and truth.

And after I saw her picture recently…I feel even more deeply in love with this beauty…vomiting into an airplane bag…

I have sold that picture to Playboy…she is on next month’s cover…next to George Bush Sr. vomiting and fainting at that Japanese event so many years ago.

It don’t get sexier than that.

Mrs. Esra’ Fatima Goldberg…has a very nice ring

(Sound of two hands clapping sharply twice)

“Woman…my shawarma!”

And Esra’a…I do resent the comment about “a few rockets”.

Fine, I exaggerated. But only for the sake of irritating Darleen.

Can we all just forget this ever happened and go out for shwaramas or something?

I follow Esra’a’s thinking and pretty often disagree with it…at least on the Palestinian/Israeli issue. But she is not a Jew hater or an Israel hater…that I am completely convinced of…in fact, like her Prohpet, I believe Esra believe the Jews have a right to Israel (man that might set off some fireworks…but I have read it in the Koran myself).

I believe the Palestinians have rights and am sympathetic to some of their claims. Many got a bad deal…as have we Jews (far more often through history and far worse) and so have many other people.

Still…I see the Palestinians as being the main cause for lack of progress…They keep restorting to terrorism and cannot come up with an intelligent consensus approach…moderation is crushed, liberalism can be death and if they are not busy fighting us…they are threatening and killing each other. I cannot see how Israel can make peace with them under such circumstances.

And Esra’a…I do resent the comment about “a few rockets”. The count was 5,000 or more and would have been more given the opportunity. All of Lebanon was not bombed..and fewer civilians would have been injured it Hiz. did not set up camp in civilian areas. By-the-way…most of those 5,000 rockets were aimed at big cities…not army bases…Hiz. and Syrian and Iran are destroying Lebanon..along with the Lebanese themselves with their bloody civil wars…but that is another story.

Anyhow…I just don’t feel so sorry for the Palestinians anymore…not when I consistently see polls taken where huge majorities support terror attacks. And they are not few…they are regular and few people here understand that far more are prevented than successful or it would really be a disaster. This thing could have been settled long ago…but the Palestinians and their handlers always hedged…just like Hamas is doing today…killing yet another opportunity for peace…same tragic story.

People tah-tah and brush off that Israel gave back Sinai, Gaza and left Lebanon. Sinai has worked out…the other two have not. There is a peace agreement with Jordan. The Muslims kill each other at a far far greater rate than any Israeli action. What have the Palestinians given? 6 months without terror, 3 months, 2 months…??? Nope…even in quiet periods there have always been attempts…and during relatively quiet periods…there has always typically been progress in bettering people’s lives.

So me…I don’t see it at all the same, at all relative or at all equal…I think the Palestinians need to start with their own leadership, their schools, and their behavior. If terror truly stops, positive change with happen and a fair settlement shoudl be arrived at. If it doesn’t stop…I personally would give in to nothing…not under those conditions

If you don’t like it, there are plenty of other websites you can go to that justify terrorism on either side and where people can fight back and fourth on who’s right and who’s wrong. I won’t do that, not here anyways. And I won’t let this discussion turn into that.

I meant it.

I won’t let these types of discussions take place here and have this website be a mirror of all the other websites that you frequent, where emphasizing “us” and “them” takes place. We here are attempting to do exactly the opposite which is why there are Israelis here who post alongside Arabs and Muslims. If you don’t like that, there is a great spot at LGF waiting for you.

How about overthrowing the Taliban after 9/11?

That was the joke of the century, seeing as the Taliban had virtually nothing to do with 9/11.

Are you saying that nations have no moral right to respond to acts of war?

I’m not saying it never happened.

I’m saying it’s unjust. And what’s even more cruel is when people like you justify it.

How many innocent civilians do you remember dying in Afghanistan on 9/11? I don’t think you would recall. You were too busy counting the lives that matter, versus the ones who don’t.

Seriously, if I want a cheerleading nationalist to pose as the victim, I’ll call you. But for now, cut us all some slack.

When it comes to one-to-one individuals, it is hardly the same as dropping bombs on an entire nation the way we have seen in Lebanon.

Do you believe that or do you enjoy beginning posts with blatant lies?

Israel BOMBED ALL of Lebanon?

No.

And did the government just wake up one morning and say “you know, today would be a good day to bomb Lebanon.”

And let’s consider your attempt at restricting self-defense as “one-on-one”. Are you saying that nations have no moral right to respond to acts of war? No right to defend their own citizens? The US had no business bombing Japan after Pearl Harbor? Coming to the aid of England/France, et al to help them respond to German aggression?How about overthrowing the Taliban after 9/11?

When you deny the right self-defense, you justify murderers.

That why true pacificists are functionally evil.

You realize that is what you are doing, right, Esra’a?

Israel national identity is a Jewish one.

Before I fix my “moral compas,” fix your perception. I live in an Islamic country. Does it represent tthe Islamic faith? Hardly. Politics and religion don’t go hand and they rarely ever compliment each other, you of all people should know this.

Being a racist against Israelis is not being an anti-Semite. If you go to the U.S, I assure you, that you will find Jews who are quite racists against their Israeli brethren. That makes them racist. Not anti-Semites.

Israel. Judaism. There is a difference

. Granted. However, Israel national identity is a Jewish one.

If I said something like “You know, I have nothing against Italians, it just that I consider Italian nationalism racist and the nation of Italy illegitimate” you’d pick up a clue or two that I was racist against Italians.

Fix your moral compas, Esra’a.

Oh really? Well, I’ve worked in a District Attorney’s office for almost ten years. I’ve yet seen one case of a person who killed another in self-defense brought up on first degree murder charges.

Let me make this straight.

When it comes to one-to-one individuals, it is hardly the same as dropping bombs on an entire nation the way we have seen in Lebanon.

When you kill a bunch of innocent civilians in the NAME of self-defense, yes, that’s murder. And I don’t buy that “but the terrorist was hiding there!” either. It’s a shield for the military to hide behind. I personally choose not to dehumanize entire civilians and justify it by claiming it’s “self defense” when it’s an unnecessary war crime.

As for your 2nd part, you are acting as if Israel is the victim in the media, when it is clearly not. You won the PR war, congratulations! I hope you are happy.

Killing over 800 innocent civilians like we saw in Lebanon as a reaction to a few rockets that the mindless Hezbollah chose to launch is not a logical reaction.

And please don’t act as if Hezbollah represents Arabs, Muslims, or the public opinion in our societies. I assure you that they do NOT, and we have spoken many times against them, so there goes your “us vs. them” mentality. Many activists in the region, including writers of this website chose to unite against all forms of extremism the way we have described on our website. If you don’t like it, there are plenty of other websites you can go to that justify terrorism on either side and where people can fight back and fourth on who’s right and who’s wrong. I won’t do that, not here anyways. And I won’t let this discussion turn into that. You’re either a decent human being with enough compassion to realize that there is enough harm being done by both nations or you’re just in this for the big fight. And I’m not going to play “who’s the victim?” with you.

That’s not called an actual fact; it’s called a justification

Oh really? Well, I’ve worked in a District Attorney’s office for almost ten years. I’ve yet seen one case of a person who killed another in self-defense brought up on first degree murder charges.

Did you happen to see this?

Tourist Kills Mugger With Bare Hands

SAN JOSE, Costa Rica (AP) — An American tourist who watched as a U.S. military veteran in his 70s used his bare hands to kill an armed assailant in Costa Rica said she thought the attempted robbery was a joke – until the masked attacker held a gun to her head.

“I thought it was a skit. But then he pointed the gun at my head and grabbed me by the throat and I thought I was going to die,” Clova Adams, 54, told The Associated Press by telephone Friday from the Carnival Liberty cruise ship.

So, do you honestly think that 70 y/o American who killed the armed 20 y/o thief is guilty of murder?

Jhimmi Carter is an anti-Semite and it has nothing to do with “criticizing” Israeli policies.

When Israel is held to a different standard than the Arab-Pals; when Israel is blamed for Hezbollah’s unilateral aggression from Lebanon; when Israel is told they do NOT have the right of self-defense, then Israel is really The World’s Jew and the “I’m just criticizing, I’m not an Jew-heter” is as transparent as a white supramicist saying “I don’t hate blacks, some of my best friends are blacks…”

a moral good (killing another in an act of self-defense)

That’s not called an actual fact; it’s called a justification. Hardly anyone is being killed in the name of self-defense. Innocent people everywhere are being slaughtered, and you’re telling me this is a “moral good”?

As for your re-written piece of history, perhaps you should refresh and read this.

Jhimmi Carter (who never met a sociopathic dictator he didn’t like and apologize for) has dropped the other shoe in revealing his anti-Semitism.

Israel. Judaism. There is a difference. Not agreeing with Israeli policies does not make a person an anti-Semite. Why do you love to hide behind the “anti-Semite” accusation? It’s tedious, and 99% of the time it’s an inaccurate representation of whoever you speak of. Many Jews disagree with what Israel is doing, they too get accused of being anti-Semites. It is absurd.

If you disagree with someone’s policies or opinions, you may call them out on it. But for your sake and everyone else’s, stop labeling people without understanding what they actually believe or stand for. It’s turning the “anti-Semite” accusation into a bigger joke than what it already is.

Because murder, no matter WHO you are, is always a crime. And when you justify it in the name of self-defense, you are indirectly taking part in that crime.

Esra’a

You really ought to stop and understand that words mean things. Any act is morally neutral until context is examined. If someone dies at the hands of another, it can range from a moral evil (premeditated murder), to amoral (death as the result of a tragic accident) to a moral good (killing another in an act of self-defense)

All killing is not morally the same. If it were then rape and lovemaking would be morally the same because they both involve acts of sexual intercourse.

If you see no moral difference between the Israeli’s and the Arab-Palestinians (so designated because the historical geographic area of the ME named by the Romans in an attempt to wipe out its Jewish heritage and the destruction of the Second Temple…so the historical ‘Palestinians’ were Jewish) and if you see some sort of “moral equivalency” between Israel which accepted a two-state solution in 1948 and Judenhass Arabs who did not, rejecting their first historical Palestinian nation which contained a majority of Arab-Palestinians (a “cultural invention” of Egyptian Yassar Arafat, just as the current wave of Temple denial is a legacy of the now dead thug) and declared immediate war on the nascent Jewish majority state… then you have, at best, a broken moral compas.

Not that it is unusual given the nihilistic cult of Leftism of Western Europe (now in the throes of self-dhimmitude to aggressive efforts to Islamisize it into accepting Shari’a) and such appeasement efforst of the American Left… even former President Jhimmi Carter (who never met a sociopathic dictator he didn’t like and apologize for) has dropped the other shoe in revealing his anti-Semitism.

Moral equivalency has the effect of blaming the victim.

Those who are merciful to the cruel will end up being cruel to the merciful

Own your own moral confusion, Esra’a.

In nowhere in that post did I justify terrorism.

In nowhere in that post did I blame Israel.

In nowhere in that post did I claim that either one or the other is the sole victim.

With all due respect, get your head out of your ass and start arguing with people AFTER you actually read their posts.

hezbollah murders a few Israelis and kidnaps two more and you blame Israel.
palestinians blow up children but Israel is the criminal for knocking down a house.

And you want claim this is a place for a open and honest discussion about events? You are a terrorist apologist and I’m done with you.

Tell that to the Lebanese…

She should tell that to the billions donated annually to Israel’s cause, and to anyone with compassion.

If they do, you call it a crime.

Because murder, no matter WHO you are, is always a crime. And when you justify it in the name of self-defense, you are indirectly taking part in that crime.

Treat people as people. Stop playing as if this is all just a tribal game to you and you’re struggling for attention and sympathy. When you label people the way you shamelessly do, they will label you back, and instead of whining about it, do something constructive to avoid the misconceptions.

How can you defend such things?

Defend what, you mean these rare cases which your media roars about and you choose to let such cases represent an entire nation? How is that anything BUT a clueless generalization? If you want to play the game of selective coverage, then go ahead. But don’t highlight these cases and not expect anyone to highlight the crimes that were caused by Israelis. I will not engage in such a discussion here, but it seems as if that is what you are aiming for, because remember, to you it’s a game of “us” vs. “them” and not a statement of humanity.

I feel sorry for people who think the way you do. I really, really feel sorry that such people are the ones who are stopping everyone in the region from advancing and moving forward. The ones who justify their own crimes but condemn the crimes that take place in another nation’s name. The ones who hide behind destructive and blind nationalism and refuse to see the good side of the “enemy,” whom they wish to have no connection with whatsoever, not even through simple and harmless dialogue (without resorting to baseless accusations the way you have.) The ones who think they have been exposed to the “truth” in that there is a war that must be fought for the sake of their own safety, but at the expense of innocent civilians from the “other side” which they have dehumanized through propaganda techniques and brutish misunderstanding. The ones who have no hope in a stable future without destroying an entire nation.