A new initiative aimed to stop the clash of civilizations (mainly the West vs. Islam and vice versa) recently launched a new and rather excellent video that shows how the clash is a result of bad politics, rather than religious and cultural differences. Read more about it here, and watch the video -
Wonderful. Kudos to Avaaz.org for this great initiative.
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Thanks for posting guys!
Especially my new friend Esra’a…
check out the video in Arabic, Hebrew, and a few other languages on our website.
Peace
Galit
Great video and a great campaign. I signed the petition and I hope everyone else does, too!
I’m for stopping the clash but not the Surge.
Hmm … I think there are some good elements to the video, but let me get this straight after checking out their website. They blame politics for the conflict between the Islamic and Western worlds, so their answer is to subplant Bush’s political agenda with their own. Their message seems to boil down to “Bush’s wrong politics” are creating the clash and that “their Moveon.org politics” can make it better.
They’re entitled to their opinion, but let’s be clear … what they are doing is not true peacemaking. It’s just more agenda-making. The problems that currently exist between the Western and Islamic worlds go far beyond blaming a few contemporary men for their politics.
However, the part I do agree with is for the grassroots to reach out to each other and not leave our collective fates ultimately to a select group of elites with agendas of their own any longer.
Absolutely wonderful! The video is just so powerful, and the campaign is great, thanks for sharing Esra’a
Esra’a-
“Petition to Israeli, Palestinian & international leaders: The Palestinian-Israeli conflict lies at the heart of a global clash threatening to divide us all. People from every corner of the world want a just and lasting peace in the Middle East – and the international community can and must help bring all sides to the table. Start Real Middle East Talks Now, and stay at the negotiating table until we have peace. ”
Sorry to rain on the lovefest here guys…but I can’t be involved in perpetuating this enormous lie…which is part of the very politics they supposed transcend. “the heart of the global clash is the Israel-Palestinian conflict”. That is just a flat, plain and utterly boldface progandic, digusting, misleading lie.
PeacefulVanguard–
Nice to see you read quickly past the the BS part…what a disgusting con job…Settle the Palestinian/Israel problem and;
Iran will give up the bomb
Sunnis and Shia in Iraq will kiss and make up
Genocide with stop in Darfur
Global warming will cool down
Avian flu wont mutate
Cheneya will be free
Blacks won’t kill blacks in Central Africa
China and India will stop sending black clouds of pollution around the world
Indians and Pakistanis, both with a nucelar capability will hang out and eat nan together
No more revolutions in Central America
Yep…the Israeli-Palestinian conflict IS the HEART of WORLD conflict…
Esra’a can you attach the picture of Imam puking into that airbag for me…it sums up my feelings on that manipulative opening statement that completely delegitamatizes whatever positive points were made in that statement. Come on…a huge part of the world does not give a SHIT about Israel or the Palestinians.
Here…he can say it better than I can:
http://www.benadorassociates.com/article/20622
Howie, Peaceful Vanguard, all
Galit from Avaaz here.
Where to start? “boldface propagandic, digusting, misleading lie” seems appropriate. First of all, we do not claim that the Israeli/Palestinian conflict IS the heart of the Clash. I’m not one to get caught up in semantics, but go back and read our petition. We just say that the latest global surveys, AND the UN, AND people like Desmond Tutu (I could go on) have all pointed out that the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is a driving symbol of this clash, and that if peace, or at least talk of peace, can happen there, it will spread.
No lovefest here at Avaaz. No hair braiding, no chaining ourselves naked to trees, maybe some sappy guitar playing, but that’s just me. We’re pretty pragmatic idealists–the head in the clouds but feet on the ground kind. We don’t think the climate crisis can be solved unless we deeply reassess our patters of energy consumption (if you take a look at the Avaaz website, you’ll see that we’ve been campaigning on global warming before we even got involved in Is/Pl issues.) We don’t think Sunnis and Shias will be playing spin the bottle anytime soon (but have been working to withdraw troops from Iraq, and stopping the surge, which you can also see on our website.) And we are convinced that the situation in Sudan won’t change unless the Sudanese government is held accountable by the international community. (We’ve ran numerous newspaper ads as well as the website http://www.darfurgenocide.org).
Transcending politics you say? Never. This ‘clash’ is deeply political. Where I come from we have a saying, if you don’t take care of politics, politics takes care of you.
It’s our founding belief that a majority of the world’s citizens share a set of basic values, and together we can build a better world. And regarding the clash, the numbers are on our side. An international poll released by the BBC last week found that 52% of people believe the origin of these conflicts is divide-and-rule politics, and only 29% blame religious or cultural differences.
But the “Clash of Civilizations” myth lives on — because it serves the interests of extremists, on both sides, who want us to believe that bloody conflict is the only option.
The myth must end –WE can end it. This won’t happen overnight, but step by step. I grew up in Latin America and have lived in Europe and the USA for over 10 years. NO OTHER CONFLICT around the world is as divisive and causes such passionate reactions as the one between Israelis and Palestinians. That is why we are starting there.
That’s it for now…
Galit
PS-Maybe I’m picky because I’m from Mexico, but the last time there was a revolution in Central America I was playing with Barbies. Guatemala and Nicaragua in the late 80′s darling, that was the last of it. And it was a grassroots movement much like the one we need now, that finally got the international peace and reconciliation commission down there. Just wanted to throw that in….
Galit (Olita)-
Mexico eh…me se hace un favor y tome cuantos de sus bracercos que viven aqui en mi barrio…a Mexico o Israel…no me porte.
OK…I read your response…I have no problem with these types of initiatives and I certianly wish you well. You don’t worry about semantics…OK…but still the opening sounds like the classic scapegoating the Is-Pal. conflict as “the” root cause of tension in the ME…which is absurd…it has become “the” excuse for all kinds of conflict…some very old…some newer…but “the” issue is “pahshut shtooyot veh nemahsli c’var lshomah hateyrutz hazeh.
But anyhow….with that being said…ojala que se puede hacer algo contra todos nuestros pendejaras alla en el ME.
Buena suerte
OH…and did you move out of Central America before the Soccer War? Que lastima…you missed a good one.
Oh…and to say it is just a polical problem is riduculous…it is about politics, culture, religion, hate, emotion, psychology and propaganda…and that is just a starter.
bismillah
assalamu ala al Muslimeen
Excuse me, but what a load garbage this is! That statistics are also obvious lie-in-your-face stats. In Egypt the Ikhwaan won 20% of the seats of the parliament while every single other party is 5% and less (except the tyrant ruling party ofcourse). In Iraq, two thirds of the cabinate won their seats for exclusively calling for Islam in politics. In Palestine Hamas won 56% of the Palestinian vote. And the trend goes on in Morrocco and Turkey with the Justice and Development party. What the hell is your “stats” based on? I have given you actual election results that clearly show that the majority of the Muslim world wants Islamic rule and NOT Democracy. You people in this blog really represent NO ONE in the Middle East but yourselves and a couple of dozen people around you.
As for the clash of civilisations. Yes ofcourse, there is a clash. Just like there was a clash between the USSR and the Capitalist world. This clash is due to ideological differences. The fact that today such a clash is being made very clear to our eyes and spoken about almost everyday shows that political Islam is what the Muslims want and is what is slowly but surely coming into the Arab world. This is why a form of “cold war” (although obviously it is not so cold since the US started military aggression already) is occurring between Islam and the West.
wassalamu ala man itaba3a huda muhammad 3alaihi afdhal al salaam
Hamas was elected because there were no alternative, they had to the choice to elect the corrupt bastards who were already in power or the lunatic bastards they don’t know much about.
Democracy is a process in which you choose a government. You might want to look up the meaning before saying anything about it. Whether it’s Islamic or not depends on the people who you elect.
Jina-
You are talking to a wall with Abdul here. I looked at his website…I think he is waiting and hoping for a return of the Caliphate in the coming weeks. If you think I am annoying…this dude is well…I would prefer being in the room with a group of naked Canandian Mounties high on Molson.
Jina;
I presented facts. You presented what exactly? Your own excuse as to why the Palestinians chose Hamas?
As for Democracy, it is not a system. It is a theory that says the people should choose their own rulers. Theoretically speaking, democracy can exist in a Communist state, in a Capitalist state or in any other state. This is because, as you are obviously ignorant of the matter, it is not a system, it is a theory only. However, where democracy is implemented and how is where the system comes in. Now leaving the theoretical side and entering the more practical side, Democracy is a failed idea. It never worked nor will it ever work for the simple purpose that it is not a system and thus incomplete. In Capitalism, democracy does not exist. The only freedom you have in the West is the choice between ketchup and mayonaise. You have a freedom only in minor issues to trick gulible people (like you and your friends) to believe that they actually have freedom. In major issues, like the war in Iraq, not only did the Western government go against what most people want, but they also didn’t ask for anyones opinion anyway. This, my friend, is Capitalism overpowering the failed Democracy. This, my friend, is where the Capital, the market, is manifest to be the true rulers of Western styled systems – not the people.
Unlike Democracy, Islam is an ideological system. It is a political as well as spiritual movement. This is why you can either have one or another but never both. It is like saying “a Capitalist Communist”. It’s a contradition in terms.
Howie:
No, we are not waiting for it to return. At the Islamic Liberation Party, we are working for its return.
Abdul-
Unlike Democracy, Islam is an ideological system. It is a political as well as spiritual movement. This is why you can either have one or another but never both. It is like saying “a Capitalist Communistâ€. It’s a contradition in terms.
Howie:
“No, we are not waiting for it to return. At the Islamic Liberation Party, we are working for its return.”
Dude…that is way cool…so you are like al Queda or something?
Got a theoritical question for you…if that is OK?
Let’s say you have a young Muslim woman…call her…I don’t know…Fatima let’s say. She is in her early 20′s, goes to Western colleges, hangs with both Muslims, Christians and Jews, has feminist leanings, is a bit flirtaeous, liberally uses swear words when upset and often travels in the company of unmarried men.
In your perfect world…what would be her status in your society…ideally speaking?
No we are not al Qaeda nor do we work with their method.
You’re question does not make any sense. Within our society she would not be able to do those things in the first place, at least not in public. If she does it in the West then she’s the West’s problem and not ours.
“You’re question does not make any sense. Within our society she would not be able to do those things in the first place, at least not in public”
Of course it makes sense…there are places like Lebanon..even Egypt and some of the small gulf countries that have more freedom…Even Arab women that live within Israel have those freedoms
So my question stands and I would still like an answer if you care to?
you said “in a perfect world what will her status be in your society”. In MY society, which i take you mean an Islamic society, such acts will not exist. In present time, there is no Islamic society and thus women can do whatever they want to do and no one can (nor is Islamically allowed) to take the law into his own hands.
Abdul-
You almost answered me…just want to see your vision…
What would your society do to her if she decided that was they way she wanted to live…your interpretation of Sharia’a law.
By the way guys..your man Abdul here certainly seems to make a good case for George Bush.
Just, Wow.
No you didn’t. Give me your source.
My opinion based on what is happening there, either take it or leave it.
Where the hell did I say democracy is a system?
Democracy is a process, it’s not just a theory because many forms of it are actually practiced. There are many kind of democracies, the one you talk about in Communism is called Direct Democracy.
Again, hit the text book before you come back and stop accusing of others of ignorance.
I never said it’s a system. You should invest some time English.
Care to explain how?
Just because you repeat the same god damn thing doesn’t mean it’s going to come true.
A form of democracy does exist. Again, there are many kind of democracies. Representitve (US, Canada), Proportional (EU, Scandanavian countires), Centralized (Former Soviet Union, China), Direct (this is a pipe dream) to name a few.
Agreed
You don’t even know me and you definetly don’t know my friends. Stop with this idiocy before you piss me off.
Agreed and you are not my friend.
Capitalism is a economic model. Democracy is a model to elect politicans, they are independent of each other. Both can exist. We are not talking about Capitalism and Communism. Stick with the bloody topic.
Have fun.
It’s quite interesting to read the confused theses of Abdul Rahman Hilmi. The most interesting one is the ostensibly contradiction of democracy and islamic rule. In “Islam” you don’t have a statement who should govern! You only have principles towards how a decision should be made and to what core.
The relevant part here is the how. The priciple is called Shura which allows either to nominate a Caliphe or – more progressive – a direct/ representative democracy. Also other inerpretations are imaginable. Due to the possibility of multiple interpretations of the how, the who remains undefined. Hence there is no need of a clash of civilization in this question!
so long,
Marten
Jina and Abdul-
We only have the choice between catsup and mayonise? I understand you both are taking some poetic license, but that is a bit over the top…At least in the USA…I think the same hold true for Canada…there are enormous freedoms…it ain’t perfect…but I will take it over Saudia or Iran…that is for certain.
And Abdul never answered my question…just skirted around it…obviously because he knew he had to say people would be imprisoned, flogged etc. etc. So rather than taking on the truth…he back out.
I am not gona just stand and say, well at least we have a choice between catsup and mayonise. I am not gona compare us with them. I would like to add some mustard to the list and keep growing the list.
Well…at least throw in some humos
humos sucks
Howie, Hilmi, Jina,
You dudes all of us in the same room, but no beer would just make matters worse), no hooka/tobacco (I can’t take it, like I used to), plenty of pizza, and your choice too, peanuts, chips, tea any kind, Herbal?, your choice of coffee, Starbucks? a satellite TV to watch American college basketball (my college is playing now), comfortable sofa and chairs, carpet, magazines on the coffee table, 2 internet connections (sharing is better), no bombs, guns, vest packs,
Esra’a says this isn’t the 1970′s, but watching that video it sure feels like it! And the comments, we had the same thing going on 30 years ago. really! Things have changed, things have gotten better, in some places.
Howie, HEY, HOWIE you said you were reading the Qur’an, remember? How far have you gotten. I am between 1/3 and 1/2 way.
regards to all of you
PS. I don’t use the word “dudes” very often
Endo-
I stopped reading it…I struggled with it just like I did with the Old Testement, the New Testement and some of the Eastern religious books I have read.
I am kind of ADHD…and frankly…I found it often vauge, confused and repetitive with some really interesting stuff mixed in. I have read the Torah like 25 times or more and have the same problem with many sections of it.
I do much better with books that talk about the holy books rather than reading them myself. I am now reading a bunch of Huston Smith stuff…that is one brilliant dude.
Jina- Humos sucks? Ah dude you have no taste…none. What do you eat up there…baby seal meat with French snails?