I liked this article..
I am totally gay and I have a gf both from Syria, we are so inlove and we are planing to get married and we’ve been together for a long time now .. we are christian both.. and both very committed to our christianity and very well educated and reaching good positions at work and we have alot of friends and people know about us. so I don’t think religion , education , background.. etc. are related in anyway to sexual orientation. But they could affect one to chose homosexuality as “sex” because of the absent of the opportunity to have sex with other gender, or the opposite sometimes homosexual people chosing to act straight to keep track with society culture.

Now as an answer for what Lina is saying that most homosexuals are about sex.. well I see that mostly happens when someone is chosing homosexuality to satisfy their sexual needs as the other gender is absent as I said before..
Me and my gf have too many lesbian and gay friends and we’ve been living in a similar society , there is studd women who really like acting like boys because of some hormons .. and others are too feminen , that’s reality wether we like it or not..
I am not against those who likes to act as women or lesbians who are butchy ..
I am not studd neither feminin myself.. i’m just on the average side..

There are gays funded with sex yes.. but there is a similar quantity of streights funded with sex! that’s another life facts.. that has nothing to do with being gay..

More for family issues.. you know I lost my family for a different reason once and they got back to me again .. and hope you will meet yours as well, I know how bad it feels. I’m sorry.

Best Regards,

Peace

Howie Wrote:

Esra’a-

That was well done.

Now if you could only get your politics correct…we could get on with the marriage and your dad could score the 3 camels, 2 goats and a the donkey.

just by submitting this unintelligently disrespectful post, howie, you have lost any credibility you had. I am surprised anyone bothered arguing with you

Should we have more sympathy for a gay person than say a painter or just some poor shmuck couch potato that wants to blur his life away with a satillite TV? I will never forget the story of some poor Flipino guy that got caught with a porno. in Saudia and was put in prison for a year and flogged every Friday. Geez…

The history of LGBT-activism is full of sacrifices, arrests, murders, imprisonment, harassment etc.
Even the LGBT-history in Europe. (and in Poland its still common nowadays, with a really homophobic parliament and president)
I know that a lot of people aren’t willing/ready to lose their lives or families. But some are. And those people are the ones who fight for the rights of the others. Thats how activism works.
We shouldn’t forget that. When you’re trying to get accepted, you have to realise that you will endanger yourself and others. Sad but true

It isn’t just one big appearance you make, you’re right. Even I started it very slow but a sudden moment you have to make that big appearance (on a personal level I mean). Same goes for on anon-personal level.
Otherwise you’ll still be neglected and ignored.
I get the idea that arab gay-activists copy the modern-day activism of western gay-activists. But they don’t realize that modern-day activism (the quiet, slow, “we’re ready now” type) in the West evolved from another kind of activism (the shouty, “I’m here I’m queer” type).
We cant just copy the modern-day activism and skip the one it evolved from.
That won’t work

Gays in the ME are invisible, they have to make themselves visible by having their own outlets.

In more liberal places like Lebanon they already do but do you think homosexuals in Saudi or Yemen would be able to get their own outlets? It’s practically impossible, and if they did it, they’d be suicidal. They will be imprisoned if not killed.

Going soft and trying to “merge” with the majority will lead you nowhere.

Like Lina said, coming out would also mean you’re risking too much. You can’t make one BIG appearance – you need to take it slow. Not everyone is willing to lose their lives or families over this. You start with targeting the mass media and then slowly gain your own outlets where people start respecting and tolerating you. You can’t just own a magazine for gays and expect not to be humiliated or targeted for it – this isn’t Sweden.

I just posted a whole reply and now it’s gone….
So I guess you have to wait , cuz its Desperate Housewives-time here in the UK.

Gays who want other gays to act more “normal” or “properly” in order to not confront heterosexuals or to make the “gap” smaller, are what I like to call crypto-homophobes.
They don’t fully understand what the acception is about
Acception doesn’t mean that homosexuals have to adapt to the heterosexual perception of homosexuality.
When we ask of homosexuals to be “normal” in order to be accepted, we’re never going to be accepted at all. We just adjust in order to “survive”

About the isolation. I dont think that there is an isolation. Most gay-outlets (magazines for example) exist because of the market-value. The “gay-market” has proven to be a very profitable one.
Besides that, some gay-issues wont never be addressed in straight-outlets. Therefore creating a need for gay-outlets. Having your own magazines, shops, clubs, bars, tv-stations doesnt mean that you isolate yourself. Instead, it means that you’re not afraid to show who you are and to whom you also belong to.
There is nothing wrong with that. It’s like saying that women shouldn’t isolate themselves by reading Vogue, Cosmo or buying their clothes at shops with only woman clothes. That would sound ridiculous right?

So far, I have talked about typical issues in the West. What I just mentioned about isolation/outlets etc etc are typical Western issues at the moment.
In the Middle East its a total different story.
Gays there shouldn’t even think about these issues. Gays in the ME are invisible, they have to make themselves visible by having their own outlets. Thats how it happened in Europe. Gays made themselves visible and accepted by having their own outlets and shouting out that they’re gay.
Going soft and trying to “merge” with the majority will lead you nowhere.

Youssef, I think it’s really interesting when homosexuals argue amongst each other when it comes to how they should act. I know that some of my homosexual friends say that they’re not widely accepted by other homosexuals because they’re “just not homosexual enough,” as they claim. By that they mean that certain gay rights activists take the “in your face” approach while others like to be less loud and noisy. Some homosexuals completely isolate themselves, too, and only hang out with gay people, attend gay parties, etc, which is what makes the gap between homosexuals and heterosexuals sometimes bigger.

Like how many magazines do you see in the region where there is a section for homosexuality, even in the most liberal newsletters or blogs? It always has to be a seperate thing. And I wish the two would be combined, because it would help gays to be accepted as average human beings who are neither mentally ill nor sinners. They’re people with rights, and these rights must be recognized in the media. They shouldn’t isolate themselves or accept the fact that they are isolated. Lina is working on several projects now that target this issue, I hope she will join us here soon to talk about it, but what many gay rights activists in the region do is start up magazines or forums like Helem, specifically for homosexuality, when it would be more helpful to target all people. I think they would be much more appreciated and represented if this was the case, and even heterosexuals would start fighting for their rights.

Oh..an ain’t it just like an Arab to repress a Jew from free expression…especially with all my hard work, sincerity and maturity.

This is censorship…this is racism at its very worse…this is anti-semitsim…totalitarianism…

Why not just lock me back in the ghetto eh?

“Please take this discussion seriously.”

MOI!!!! Not serious…me?

I’m hurt…this pains me.

I edited the last part of your comment. It is very inappropriate. Please take this discussion seriously.

Well…If you wan to simplify…in totalitarian, and especially theorcratic environments (one the other or both include most Muslim countries) what form of deviance IS tolerated, whether it be sexual, religious, idea, art, speech etc.

So in answer to the second and more important part of your post…yes from what I hear…homosexuals…like others who “deviate” are treated terribly in the Arab/Muslim world.

I also agree with Esra’a last comment. Actually, I don’t think any of us are very far apart on this topic…just a good health mature discussion:

[Edit]

Homosexuality is not a choice, homosexual behavio(u)r is.
Homosexuality equals homos. behaviour, homos. behaviour doesn’t equal homosexuality.

But I don’t think that this is of any relevance here. The main discussion point should be LGBT-rights and the perception of it by LGBT arabs.
Not every topic about LGBT-stuff should end up in a discussion about whether it is a choice or not.
the gay godwin’s law:P

Paraphilias…deviant sexual practices (that is the generic term..meaning deviates from the norm) seem to come in “clusters”. For what it is worth, research seems to point out that once that line is crossed…there seems to be a clear tendency to engage in several deviant sexual behaviors.

All three of you have points…many cases seem to be without choice, but there clearly are cases where homosexual behavior clearly IS a choice; single sex schools, prison etc. and Bashar…yes I have heard the same stories. I have known women who became frustrated with their relationships with men and CHOSE homosexuality.

Esra’a…with the predators…this is where statistics get tricky. I agree that lots of these guys end up in jobs like priesthood etc. But you could easily argue that is is the very deviant among homosexuals who seek these kinds of positions out so they can act out.

It is not nearly as simple as Jina has tried to assert here…and then there is the whole issue of how sexuality is more of a “spectrum” behavior as opposed to either or (I am on the farthest end of the masculinity aspect of the spectrum…just so you all know)…Even bi-sexuality does not really explain it…because there are many cases of people who occasionally “switch” regularly switch..very irregular switch etc.

I am an expert on human sexuality I will have you know…and they came from not only a great deal of study…but a lot of time alone practicing.

I’m talking about RELIGION and homosexuality, and the people comitting these crimes are the ones declaring homosexuality as a SIN. I’m also specifically talking about this taking place in locked up societies where homosexuality is considered a taboo topic, and thus rarely do you ever get coverage about gay rights in the Middle East or gays in general. This repression is what may lead to these acts happening in ’secret’ (i.e, rape and sexual abuse in prisons or anywhere behind closed doors.)

Esra’a, homosexuals are humans also.

Really? I thought they were rodents.

People need to control themselves and laws should be created to protect the victims and punish the criminals (not th other way around like in many ME countries) who commit these acts, but in the Middle East, this happening is… bla… not gona happen any time soon… do something about it if you want a good future.

You might be surprised at how many homosexuals would argue that it was NOT a choice…especially the guys.

I would fully understand this sentence, esp. at the middle east…. WHY sometimes its not a choice…… basically due to lack of women/men… look at KSA for an example …. alot of things are going under the table …

Ill tell you a small story, back the the 70s, my dad was talking to a bunch of students in the prague about the middle east and about Jordan, basicaly they were talking about gay rights and all sort of stuff …. one of the students asked me dad: what about gay rights at the middle east? my dad said: hmmm (probably didnt know what gay rights mean at that time)

and then he said: we have ppl who actually f— donkeys and chicken.

the students laughed, thinking it was a joke, but it WASNT.

Furthermore, I don’t think I need to remind you what happens in prison. Men get raped by other men, that’s another abuse of power. A lot of the time, it is the police officers themselves comitting these acts. It is no different in Islamic prisons, I know people with personal experience who can tell you that. In situations like these, it’s not about sexual needs, it’s about power. People abuse it through violent means, and in certain cases through homosexual urges.

I didn’t say homosexuality is a choice. Nor did Lina – read the interview again, she emphasized this more than once. In the comment I meant being a homosexual as a MUSLIM is a choice – and it most certainly is. I should have clarified.