Comments on: Underground Palestinian Free Speech http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/04/05/undergroup-palestinian-free-speech/ Thinking Ahead Sat, 11 Feb 2012 20:46:46 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Peter Jacob (Israel & USA) http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/04/05/undergroup-palestinian-free-speech/#comment-5853 Peter Jacob (Israel & USA) Fri, 06 Apr 2007 20:53:52 +0000 http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/04/05/undergroup-palestinian-free-speech/#comment-5853 Jina- Perhaps you should apply to work for CBS Outdoor. Jina-

Perhaps you should apply to work for CBS Outdoor.

]]> By: Jina (Web Surgeon) http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/04/05/undergroup-palestinian-free-speech/#comment-5852 Jina (Web Surgeon) Fri, 06 Apr 2007 19:10:33 +0000 http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/04/05/undergroup-palestinian-free-speech/#comment-5852 <blockquote>CBS Outdoor isn’t the BEIC</blockquote>My point was that just because a private company was abusing the rights of the people doesn't mean that abuse didn't happen. <blockquote>I am SURE it has rejected other ads based on the issues of “naked women” (and men) because they were too inflammatory.</blockquote>CBS Outdoor also owns all the ad spaces in Toronto, where I live. Some of these ads sometimes makes me wona puke.

CBS Outdoor isn’t the BEIC

My point was that just because a private company was abusing the rights of the people doesn’t mean that abuse didn’t happen.

I am SURE it has rejected other ads based on the issues of “naked women” (and men) because they were too inflammatory.

CBS Outdoor also owns all the ad spaces in Toronto, where I live. Some of these ads sometimes makes me wona puke.

]]> By: Peter Jacob (Israel & USA) http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/04/05/undergroup-palestinian-free-speech/#comment-5851 Peter Jacob (Israel & USA) Fri, 06 Apr 2007 12:35:13 +0000 http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/04/05/undergroup-palestinian-free-speech/#comment-5851 Jina and Yaman- No question about it. But CBS Outdoor isn't the BEIC. I am SURE it has rejected other ads based on the issues of "naked women" (and men) because they were too inflammatory. I doubt (really I do) if this was an ad with an identical message without the tank (ie it had a group of Palestinian children playing and smiling asking for self-determination in a clever way) this ad would have run no question about it. When you make sweeping statements equating CBS Outdoor to BEIC you miss the entire point here; the US isn't a colony of the crown. (while we can argue if the US is a colonizer another time) CBS Outdoor must compete with others for the contracts to have the "public" space ads. I am also sure that if a militant pro-Israel group wanted to put up a picture of suicide bombers, it would have similar problems. Jina and Yaman-

No question about it. But CBS Outdoor isn’t the BEIC. I am SURE it has rejected other ads based on the issues of “naked women” (and men) because they were too inflammatory.

I doubt (really I do) if this was an ad with an identical message without the tank (ie it had a group of Palestinian children playing and smiling asking for self-determination in a clever way) this ad would have run no question about it.

When you make sweeping statements equating CBS Outdoor to BEIC you miss the entire point here; the US isn’t a colony of the crown. (while we can argue if the US is a colonizer another time) CBS Outdoor must compete with others for the contracts to have the “public” space ads.

I am also sure that if a militant pro-Israel group wanted to put up a picture of suicide bombers, it would have similar problems.

]]> By: Yaman http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/04/05/undergroup-palestinian-free-speech/#comment-5850 Yaman Fri, 06 Apr 2007 04:55:07 +0000 http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/04/05/undergroup-palestinian-free-speech/#comment-5850 I want to further generalize on what Jina mentioned in addition to what I hinted at above. When a government uses non-governmental institutions to do its work, that does not mean the government can wash its hand clean of any acts that that non-governmental institution commits that undermine the rights of citizens and other human beings. A similar scenario exists in Israel. Israeli law does not permit the state to discriminate by religion or race--and yet, such discrimination does exist, though it is not explicit. For example, a number of social services in Israel are only available to citizens who have performed their service in the military; but service is not compulsory for Arabs in Israel and many are not permitted to join, so those services by definition are not available to them. At a very superficial level the state is not discriminating against them. Law one says social services are available to anybody who meets the conditions of law 2, so law 1 may appear to be "fair." But law 2 discriminates by race--that by extension means that law one is effectively racist. So, just because this interaction did not occur with a government agency does not mean that the government agency is not responsible or that the non-governmental institution with which it did occur does not have to be held to the same standards as a government agency. I want to further generalize on what Jina mentioned in addition to what I hinted at above. When a government uses non-governmental institutions to do its work, that does not mean the government can wash its hand clean of any acts that that non-governmental institution commits that undermine the rights of citizens and other human beings. A similar scenario exists in Israel. Israeli law does not permit the state to discriminate by religion or race–and yet, such discrimination does exist, though it is not explicit. For example, a number of social services in Israel are only available to citizens who have performed their service in the military; but service is not compulsory for Arabs in Israel and many are not permitted to join, so those services by definition are not available to them. At a very superficial level the state is not discriminating against them. Law one says social services are available to anybody who meets the conditions of law 2, so law 1 may appear to be “fair.” But law 2 discriminates by race–that by extension means that law one is effectively racist.

So, just because this interaction did not occur with a government agency does not mean that the government agency is not responsible or that the non-governmental institution with which it did occur does not have to be held to the same standards as a government agency.

]]> By: Jina (Web Surgeon) http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/04/05/undergroup-palestinian-free-speech/#comment-5849 Jina (Web Surgeon) Fri, 06 Apr 2007 04:45:40 +0000 http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/04/05/undergroup-palestinian-free-speech/#comment-5849 Freedom of speech is not limited to government control. Liora and Peter Jacob, you point resembles what some Brits use when they defend their action in South Asia. It was the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_East_India_Company" rel="nofollow">British East India Company</a> that controlled most of the sub-continent. It was a private company with it's private army. It committed the crimes and not the British government for most part. If CBS Outdoor sensor something because inflammatory, why do they allow half naked chicks on their ads or naked chicks with things covering the private spots? This is not about inflammatory ads, it's about politics. CBS Outdoor obviously don't like the ad so they didn't allow it. The reason they gave into ACLU is because of this, they would have lost the case if they had gone forward with it. Freedom of speech is not limited to government control. Liora and Peter Jacob, you point resembles what some Brits use when they defend their action in South Asia. It was the British East India Company that controlled most of the sub-continent. It was a private company with it’s private army. It committed the crimes and not the British government for most part.

If CBS Outdoor sensor something because inflammatory, why do they allow half naked chicks on their ads or naked chicks with things covering the private spots?

This is not about inflammatory ads, it’s about politics. CBS Outdoor obviously don’t like the ad so they didn’t allow it. The reason they gave into ACLU is because of this, they would have lost the case if they had gone forward with it.

]]> By: Yaman http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/04/05/undergroup-palestinian-free-speech/#comment-5848 Yaman Fri, 06 Apr 2007 04:14:26 +0000 http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/04/05/undergroup-palestinian-free-speech/#comment-5848 And when the only way to reach a formidable audience is to use these advertising agencies or these network stations, what then? And what of the fact that this metro is PUBLIC transportation? Just because the advertising work is contracted through a private company does not mean that it is no longer through the medium of a public place. If the local government gives the authority to place advertisements on public transportation to company X, and company X refuses to post advertisements of a certain political message, in effect the local government is responsible. Just because it is an indirect relationship does not mean that company X is not involved in a freedom of speech issue. And when the only way to reach a formidable audience is to use these advertising agencies or these network stations, what then?

And what of the fact that this metro is PUBLIC transportation? Just because the advertising work is contracted through a private company does not mean that it is no longer through the medium of a public place. If the local government gives the authority to place advertisements on public transportation to company X, and company X refuses to post advertisements of a certain political message, in effect the local government is responsible. Just because it is an indirect relationship does not mean that company X is not involved in a freedom of speech issue.

]]> By: Liora http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/04/05/undergroup-palestinian-free-speech/#comment-5847 Liora Fri, 06 Apr 2007 01:19:16 +0000 http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/04/05/undergroup-palestinian-free-speech/#comment-5847 Yeah, I'm all about free speech, too, but you're right -- this ain't it. Advertising is business, not a basic right. TV Networks don't have to air things they don't want to, and advertising companies don't have to run ads they don't want to. Still, using that hook got them extra visibility, AND the placement of the ads, so guess they're not dumb, just good at PR! Yeah, I’m all about free speech, too, but you’re right — this ain’t it. Advertising is business, not a basic right. TV Networks don’t have to air things they don’t want to, and advertising companies don’t have to run ads they don’t want to. Still, using that hook got them extra visibility, AND the placement of the ads, so guess they’re not dumb, just good at PR!

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