Egyptian NOT Arab!
It’s fair to say I grew up in an environment that convinced me of having a purely Arab identity. Referring to myself and other Middle Eastern people as Arab was very convenient, anyone I met from other Arabic speaking countries felt like brethren by virtue of being “Arab.”
My Arab identity was not of my parents making, actually it was public opinion and the prevalence of ignorance around me which assured me of my Arab-ness. I remember once I referred to myself as Arab in front of my father, I’ve rarely seen such a furious combination of anger and mentoring from my father.
My Dad: What!? What did you say? You’re not Arab, don’t ever say that, you’re Egyptian!
My father always had a great influence on me, every word he spoke was like Divine word to me. But in that moment I still had trouble accepting I wasn’t Arab, The influence of popular opinion was that pervasive.
I was especially curious and my fathers stern words weren’t pacifying enough for me so I had to ask, “but why?” So typical of a curious child, right? It was at that moment my father said something that I’ve carried with me in this debate until this day.
My Dad: Who settled America?
Young Me: The British.
My Dad: Bravo! And what language do they speak in America?
Young Me: English.
My Dad: Good, Good! Do you know who the Native Americans are?
Young Me: Yea the Indians.
My Dad: Exactly the Indians, they were there before the British and the British took over and now the Indians speak English right?
Young Me: Yea? (with my curiosity increasing)
My Dad: So why don’t we call the Native Americans Englishmen?
Finally I was able to understand and you should too. Replace “America” with Egypt, “English” with Arabic, “Indians” with Egyptians and “British” with Arabs.
In reality the word “Arab” is the second largest misnomer and most presumptuous ethnic label (after African American). Sadly in history, groups of people have given up their identities in order to accept a foreign one and I find myself ashamed when I listen to them talk about their ancestors as if they are a foreign and imperfect race. Phoenicians, Egyptians, Assyrians, Chaldeans, Syrians, Berbers, Philistines and many others all now calling themselves Arab.
These groups have become recognized as Arabs not because it was forced upon them to be called Arabs but because they gave into the cultural imperialism which is and was Arabization and called themselves Arab. The Iranians are a good example of a group who were too proud of their own rich history to call themselves Arab and to this day refuse to be called Arab and so called “Arabs” refuse to call them Arab.
So who is Arab? The answer is SOOOOOO much easier than you may think, especially if you’re having trouble accepting what I’m saying. Prepare yourself for a mind blowing revelation. People from the Arabian Peninsula ARE Arab, those include the countries of Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Oman, the United Arab Emirates, Qatar, Bahrain, and Kuwait.
Declaring yourself as Egyptian has negative ramifications in the Arabized world though. We are often accused of nationalism (a faux pas both culturally and Islamically) and failing to unite the so-called Arab nations. I resent that accusation, I just want to be identified with my true ethnic identity and not one we’ve been borrowing for 1000+ years.
Join the Conversation
I understand that Arab is a blanket terms used for anyone from that region, but your example conversation with your dad is as false as the “Arab” crap you speak of. I see the same kind of ignorance exist in your very example about the things talked about in the conversation and the “Arab” term.
And this is the problem.
Where is your language so find your identity there.
Liela,
According to what your saying, then the Indians are English people, Algerians are french, south africans are english !!
Bashar:
most of people all around the world know Egyptians as Arabs.can you tell me why?isn’t it because they speak Arabic?If they had their own language no one was gonna call them Arabs so every one was recognized them by their real identity.
Everyone must be proud of his/her origin, I actually agree with Bashar, we are “defined” as Arabs, because we speak Arabic, but most of us aren’t even of aren’t even of Arabic origin! For example, Lebanon’s known as the land of the Phoenicians and in the old days, Palestine and Israel spoke the Roman, Hebrew… etc. they weren’t called romaebrwans..
now when people started talking Arabic, they started calling themselves Arabs, I’m not convinced!
DB, it’s worse for us Sudanese man. One big mess. Arab or African?
It’s a freaking headache I tell ya.
You know what pisses me off endlessly? Its that when I open this debate the people who want to insist that Egyptians are Arab do so as If I am attacking them personally. More so they defend the concept of Egyptians being Arab by reminding me of what language the Egyptians speak. News Flash for you, Egyptians are on their 6th or 7th language in history. By that logic, if I learn Polish I magically turn into a Polish person. I swear Leila, its as if you didnt read the example at all!
P.S. you should see what people are saying over this at Whisper of Madness
Let me add something, no one person is just one thing. For example this is me.
Ethnicity: Tamil
Culture: Tamil/Hindu/Indian/Sri Lankan
Religion: Hindu
Nationality: Sri Lankan by birth, Canadian by citizenship
Historically: Tamil/Hindu/Indian
Answer these questions and then decide who you are. Also don’t confuse ethnicity with nationality.
No one person can be just one thing, people need to get over this I am 100% bla bla mentality.
There are some Pakistanis (mainly Salafis) who start adopting everything Arab in their daily life, such as speaking Urdu with an Arabic accent, taking Arab sides in arguments, adopt Arab dress, and effectively discarding their ethnic identity in the process.
You forgetting the French, the Spanish, the Dutch, the Russians, the Portugese, the Germans…
Most do but America got no official langauge, 10% speak Spanish, almost 1% speak Chinese etc…
No, Indians live in South Asia.
Again, Indians live in South Asia and the natives still speak their language + English or Spanish or French etc.. Of course many were forced to speak only one of the European languages and their language is whipped out with their culture.
Englishman is a person from England, some of my cousins are called Englishmen also because they were born in England, at the same time they are also Tamil by ethnicity. Like I said before, you can be more than one thing so stop deluding yourself by thinking, I am just Arab or just Egyptian.
YES YES YES
We are in full agreement here DB!
And this is a very common conception among Egyptians (not just Christians as some people think). There’s even a large Facebook group organized around this belief.
I’m Egyptian NOT Arab
The day we put EGYPT before other Arab countries, is the day we’ll start moving forward at a faster pace. That’s not to say we shouldn’t maintain close political and cultural ties with the Arabs- of course we should, but we need to acknowledge that in the end we are different people, of different origins, and different ethnicities. Egyptians are to Saudis are to Moroccans are to Lebanese as Mexicans are to Spaniards are to Colombians are to Argentineans. Arabs are from the Arabian Penninsula. The rest of us simply are not Arabs.
Damn it, i made a long comment here and it didn’t show up
ok just disregard the double comment, i didn’t think it showed up the first time
30% of Mexicans are Spaniards, Mexican is a natinality, not ethnicity. Spaniard can be ethnicity and nationality.
2 Nationalities… wrong comparison, Arab is not a nationality.
When you say you are Egyptian, are you talking about nationality, ethnicity, historical ties, linguistics or culture? Stop using blanket terms like the people who you are arguing against. Be more specific.
ROFL… comparing nationality with something else is too funny.
I agree with Esraa and Jina…
Define:
Nationality: “a legal relationship involving allegiance on the part of an individual and usually protection on the part of the state ”
ethnicity: ” relating to large groups of people classed according to common racial, national, tribal, religious, linguistic, or cultural origin or background.”
At the end of the day we all suck cause we waste our time with differences. Do we need anymore divisions?!?
Arab : “one whose native language is Arabic. Before the spread of Islam and, with it, the Arabic language, Arab referred to any of the largely nomadic Semitic inhabitants of the Arabian Peninsula. In modern usage, it embraces any of the Arabic-speaking peoples living in the vast region from Mauritania, on the Atlantic coast of Africa, to southwestern Iran, including the entire Maghrib of North Africa, Egypt and The Sudan, the Arabian Peninsula, and Syria and Iraq.”
Does being an Egyptian as you say and not an Arab change anything? other than create a bigger gap between us all!
I agree with the above three… this fuss creates more divide.
Define nationality: “a legal relationship involving allegiance on the part of an individual and usually protection on the part of the state”
define ethnicity: ” relating to large groups of people classed according to common racial, national, tribal, religious, linguistic, or cultural origin or background”
Arab: “one whose native language is Arabic. Before the spread of Islam and, with it, the Arabic language, Arab referred to any of the largely nomadic Semitic inhabitants of the Arabian Peninsula. In modern usage, it embraces any of the Arabic-speaking peoples living in the vast region from Mauritania, on the Atlantic coast of Africa, to southwestern Iran, including the entire Maghrib of North Africa, Egypt and The Sudan, the Arabian Peninsula, and Syria and Iraq.”
I don’t see how its racist to put Egypt’s interests ahead of common Arab interests. That’s simple common sense. Had Egypt not sacrificed thousands of men, its relationship with the West, and decades of out-of-control military spending that could have been invested in education or infrastructure in order to fight wars for ungrateful Palestinians (though 2 of those wars were started by Israel, so they get the other 50% of the blame), then Egypt would be in a much better position it is today.
Jina, our point is that Arab is a term for a nationality that encompasses the nationalities of the ARabian Gulf. Why can Spaniard be a nationality and an ethnicity? Why can’t Egyptian be a nationality and ethnicity? Because you said so Jina? God, you’re stupid. And who said 30% of Mexicans are Spaniards? Where did you get that from?
That Arabs seem so frightened by nationalist Egyptian rhetoric is simply additional proof that Egypt has contributed more to the Arab cause than it has benefited from it.
Oh God Patrick. Sure go ahead and blame these ungrateful Palestinians! They are after all responsible for Egypt’s embarrassing failures.
Egypt is a shame because of what it did to ITSELF. Don’t point fingers. Take responsibility for your own wrongdoing, we ALL made sacrifices!
That’s hilarious.
Unless you mean that from a personal perspective, then yes, but in a global light, no, that would be quite racist!
Oh please! Egypt serves as one of the POOREST examples of the Arab world! Need I remind you that Egypt also fucked up our constitution greatly and is encouraging other states to deprive us citizens of our rights as well? Despite that I still don’t blame Egypt for our own failures as much as you blame the Palestinians! It is horrific how Arabs continue to blame others for their own miseries, and this kind of mentality is entirely inspired by nationalistic propaganda.
In one way or another, each Arab country contributed to the Arab world, do not make this about who is better or who did more or who is more developed, this argument is going to put us through yet another World War! Why compete if it will only end up in bloodshed or war?
If you learned anything from 1967 it should be DON’T POINT FINGERS. Only Egypt is responsible for its own failures, no one else!
Again I dont understand other peoples frustration. Its as if I’m trying to succeed from the union.
Let me clarify something, when I say I’m Egyptian its because my culture is Egyptian, my ethnicity is Egyptian and most importantly my blood is Egyptian. I dont know why every self described Arab feels its their business to make me Arab like you. Because as hard as you want to try the fact is that I am in no way Arab. Its simply history. How hard is it to understand that being invaded by one group makes me in no way a part of that group?
Arab culture in countries that were invaded by Arabs is very pervasive and throught history people were made to believe that being Arab is some how better than being what they are. In effect the cultural identity spreads.
Just like Danial said, Many pakistanis prefer to be Arab over being Paki, they have been taught that Arab culture and people are supperior only because the Prophet was Arab. I have even heard it said that it is sunnah to be Arab, something completely out of your control…. unless you insist on being called Arab like many of our ancestors apparently did.
Egyptians are decendants of the Ancient Egyptians, now do you mean to tell me the Ancient Egyptians were Arab. If not then you really have no argument! You trying to rob me of my ethnicity is far more offensive then me telling you I’m not part of yours when I’m actually not.
In terms of what Patrick said, I agree and I think you all do without getting your panties in a bunch. All this Arab nationalism makes me sick, I’m not saying Egyptians are better than any other people on the earth (even though I’m entitled to feel that way if I want) I’m only saying that worst comes to worst my people come first. I dont see why a common language or even common culture means I have to “unite” with anyone else in the region. Who are you to me and who are we fighting that we need unity. I would rather have unity with Human beings by virtue of being human not like many of YOU want which is “Arabs” Vs. Everyone Else.
Gamal Abdel Nasser’s biggest mistake was Arab nationalism. Not surprisingly Egypt has been on the down turn since his inception.
P.S. Since when do we share a common language anyway. I think we all agree that Egyptian Arabic has nearly no resemblance to literary Arabic. In fact even our grammar is different, which was influenced by languages like Demotic and Greek.
This competitive mentality combined with the type of nationalism that is not so much different from what Abdel Nasser proposed in the first place, in many ways it’s just as destructive.
And DB, concerning other types of Arabic: There are over 22 dialects of this language. Many of them have NO resemblance whatsoever to literary Arabic.
No one cares what or who you are as long as you do NOT undermine others or try to insist that you are somehow better or more unique, when other Arab countries are just as less “Arab” than Egypt itself. We all have our unique and extensive histories. In fact I can sit here and declare myself as Iranian or British and that argument would even have some truth to it, but I don’t because no one CARES.
Just live your life trying to work towards the betterment of your country instead of fighting over labels.
And Esra’a you dont have to agree. This is not some revolution, no one is gonna go to war over it, I simply dont like being called something I’m not.
And as far as Jina’s “logic”. He is defending the fact that Americans and American Indians speak English by saying that 10% of America speaks spanish. Wow what a mind blower, yes 10% do speak spanish, they are called Mexicans! How does this negate the clear cut parallel between the U.S. and Americans and Egypt and Egyptians.
If you can find something factually innacurate about my example I’d like to hear it but you are nit picking about details which in no way relate or deny the truth of my point.
Deny to me that Egyptians did not speak arabic before the 7th century.
Deny to me that Egyptians were not Arab before the 7th century.
Deny to me that human beings can not magically turn into another ethnicity.
If you want to argue that Egyptians are Arab by virtue of their culture I can entertain that idea hit me with that. Its far more reasonable than making Egyptians Arab just because you say so!
Esra’a:
How is it even remotely racist to put your own country’s objectives ahead of other countries? How?
Esra’a you are crying out racism for an issue that fundamentally does not and should not concern you. Why are you so angry that Egyptians do not want to be involved in some cumulative Arab world? Furthermore, this isn’t just Egyptians. Have you ever talked to Lebanese? Do you think Lebanese consider themselves Arab? Talk to any Lebanese, especially Maronites, and ask them if they consider themselves Arab, and get back to me with the results. Talk to any Maghrebians/Berbers and ask if they consider themselves Arab and get back to me with the result.
DB, it’s nice to see we’re in 100% agreement on this issue
Arabism is a collectivist ideology. The concept of non-Arabians even being Arab is a “collectivist ideology.” You are defending a collectivist ideology.
Did you just dis my people you mother fucker? Racist fuck.
Educate yourself.
You brought up an example that has no basis and points out the ignorance you and your father have toward the people of the nation you live in.
I did… go back to your grade 7 history class, might learn something or do they even teach history in the US?
Because it is an ethnicity along with Catalanians, Galicians, Basques, Araneses, Asturians, Aragonese etc… A Catalanian is both a Spaniard (nationality) and a Catalanian (ethnicty). Get it?
Because Egyptian is not an ethnicity… like how Indian is not an ethnicity but rather nationality, how Chinese is not an ethnicity but rather a nationality, how Indonesian is not a ethnicity but rather a nationality, how American is not an ethnicity but rather a nationality. GET IT? Copts are both Egyptians (nationality) and Copt (ethnicity). Before you make a fool of yourself, go figure out what your ethnicity is and then write more crap. Basic understanding of the English language also helps.
My mistake, 15% is Spanish. And grow up.
If you mental midgets are so sure about everything then put the closest to what you think you are for all these
Ethnicity:
Culture:
Language:
Religion:
Nationality:
Historically:
If Arab shows up there, then you are an Arab, along with whatever else that might show up on that list. And Patrick, you are an American first, not Egypitan. Get over it. And I don’t know about you DB. Where were you born or just answer those.
If you don’t want to answer those then shut the fuck up and stop this stupidity.
Um…. okay. You can be whatever you want to be. It’s the fact that you want to rub it into everybody’s face–that you think it’s important enough to have to point it out and rub it into everybody’s face–that makes you a chauvinist. Who cares? I don’t. But tell me this: where do Egyptians end and Libyans begin? Is it at that border that the British drew? or where do the Sudanese begin and the Egyptians end? Another border the British drew? Okay, whatever you say… if you really believe that your civilization hasn’t changed since the time of the pharaoh, you just go right ahead and continue believing that.
Esra’a I’m not attacking you when I say this but I’ve never seen you go so bonkers about nothing…Seriously. You dont care if I’m egyptian or chinese or whatever. Thats great, so then this is not a topic that interests you. This a topic for those who insist Egyptians are Arab and those who insist Egyptians are not.
You have taken the topic and perverted it entirely. I never said Egyptians were better or even suggested it. I never said Arabic is the ONLY dialect that does not resemble litterary Arabic. I never in anyway said I was defining myself as “not arab” out of superiority. You assumed all of it. It couldnt be farther from what I’m saying and we seem to be talking about two completely different things. This debate is solely about whether Egyptians are or are not Arabs. Not whether they are better or not. I dont know where you got that from and you should have understood that when we talked about this earlier, instead of resorting to passion and calling me a racist. Why dont you read this whole thing again.
Yaman and Wafa,
THANK YOU for putting it so simply and making the argument that I was actually too disgusted to fully make. I was actually way overboard and mangled my argument completely, I admit that, and I apologize for my overreaction.
Jina seriously how old are you. You have proven time and time again that you cant be in a debate without insulting others.
No I quoted Danial, you can scroll up and read what he said if you like. And Sunddenly you are Paki? Hmmm
I’m sorry do you somehow not see that amoung the many people who settled in America that the rulling group was the British. Who do you think the Revolution was fought against? I dont understand your point! Its no different than how Egypt had many outsiders like greeks, armenians, jews etc but were ruled by the Arabs.
This is alone the most ignorant quote of the thread. So because Patricks was born in America you are going to decide how Egyptian he is? Is it up to you to decide his blood and his right to his culture because of his address? Do you have the right to deny 7000+ years of his ancestory to say he’s not Egyptian? Fuck you asshole!
Oh really? Why, because its not a priority to the census bureau? Egyptian certainly is an ethnicity. I’m so confused by your insistence that it’s not. Who are the Ancient Egyptians, what are they?
Yaman there are very simple answers to your questions. The Libyan and Egyptian border are conveiniently seperated by a desert and there are few to no in habitants in between. But besides that people have drawn imaginary borders for thousands of years between groups and they have assured who is who by distinguishing customs and dialects so its really not hard to determine who is who.
As far as the Sudanese border there are inhabitants close to and along side the border some are ethnically Egyptian, some are ethnically Nubian and some are ethnically bedouin. None of them are Arab. That is a ethnic distinction however as a nationality they are all Egyptian. This debate and this post is about Ethnicity.
And again no one is rubbing anything in your face I am only asking whether Egyptians are ethnically Arab or not. Why you get so angry over it is beyond my comprehension. And i’m sure you wont be the last one to suggest that me and Patrick have a supperiority complex. We simply find it interesting that Egyptians are constantly refered to as Arabs when that is factually innacurate. Everyone needs to relax about us declaring are racial superiority thats not whats going on here!
you know what ? i think all of you are missing the point. every one of you is talking about somthing different, and the others are interpreting it the way they want. So if my opinion matters for someone here, everybody should go do something else and calm down, this is crazy, i don’t even know why everybody is yelling at each other. I don’t like it. MEY is about accepting other opinions, if you think someone is saying something wrong, clarify it, try to understand what he is saying, why he is saying so, and explain your point of view on every single idea without mixing all the arguments together. I’m just reading angry comments and different interpretations, and i don’t understand why you are beeing so agressive, all of you! Ok now everybody ,close this window, it’s time to get out of here guys !! I’m really tired of this, i thought i would find a better way to communicate here with you, and obviously, this is not the best i’ve seen!
Do you even know what a Paki is?
He didn’t say Paki you fuckhead. EDUCATE YOURSELF, I remember saying this on every fucking post you ever made or commented on. You have absolutely no knowledge of anything other than what you think something is. Stop it. Go read some books… go learn something.
He still didn’t say what his ethnicity is. He keeps saying Egyptian. Unless he can point me to a source where some has proof that there is an ethnicity called Egyptian exist then I will take back what I have said. Until then 7000 years or 10000 years doesn’t matter. I acknowledge the fact that there are lots of ethnic groups in Egypt, figure out who the fuck you are and then post.
You still didn’t answer the shit that I asked for yet you keep pushing irrelevant crap. Just answer it and you will get the easy answer as to who you are. Simple.
Nadia, I asked them certain things to classify them for who they are, they didn’t answer, instead they insulted me. So I insult back, very simple.
Final time, what is your ethnicity, what is your culture, what is your religion, what is your nationality, what are you historically, what are you linguistically. You are all of these.
Answer them or shut up.
Jina I have your facts for you, the following link is a page on Wikipedia via Answers.com http://www.answers.com/topic/egyptians
the first sentence states.
Further down you will find
I am quoting this NOT to suggest superiority but to highlight a continuously exisiting ETHNIC GROUP not nationality. and Further down you will see..
If Egyptians are Arab it would be impossible to be occupied and ruled by yourself now wouldnt it?
DB,
Please go through each history of Arab countries, and you will find a lot of where that came from! By this logic, almost none of us are Arab!
well that might be the case, I dont think this is a flawed logic. This is who we are, it acknowledges that we are an ethnic group and it answers Jinas questions. I dont know what it suggests about any one else but thats not my order of business.
Now that we got Egyptian ethnicity or not question out of the way and I will take back the Egypt not an ethnicity comment, lets move on. Answer those questions I asked to see if you are an Arab or not. Like I said a million times, you can be both… now answer it.
LOL how can you be both. Jina if you want to suggest that my culture is Arab or Arab influenced I agree, However that doesnt make me Arab. If you think so thats fine but my argument is that I’m ethnically Egyptian. Your questions really dont prove anything.
P.S. I’d love to talk about this more but I think I’ve proved my point very well through researched info and cold hard facts. And I think I have hung in loooooong enough to answer anyones objection. Now I must go because I’m a guest in my parents house for the first time in 3 months and my Egyptian mother is cooking me some delicious Egyptian food and my Egyptian stomach is getting anxious! Good evening. Sorry If anyone misunderstood my message. Esra’a I love you like a sister. Everyone else no hard feelings and Jina kiss my ass as usual you angry little man you.
Because you can be both. I explained it before.
So your ethnically Egyptian, Arab isn’t just ethnicity so your “Egyptian NOT Arab” argument is false. One more thing, 1000+ years of Arab rule didn’t include interbreeding?
That also makes you an Arab culturally, but not ethnically.
Explain why? And why are you refusing to answer them? Do you have something to hide? Make it clear that you are an Egyptian.
Ones again you dodge the most important question and run away like you always do. You do have something to hide… and you are a racist prick or an ignorant moron. Go read up on what Paki means and come back when you find out what it means and apologize to me.
I advocate that Jina be kicked off this board. He clearly has no regard for proper intellectual debate or any measure of decorum. He is absolutely, disgustingly intolerant of people with different views, thinks its his way or the highway, throws around an accusation of racist like its the lightest thing in the world, and always uses the f** bomb.
Jina…answer me WHY Spanish is an Ethnicity while Egyptian is not? YOU HAVE NOT EXPLAINED THAT. YOU MERELY REASSERTED IT.
How is Coptic an ethnicitiy? Coptic means “egyptian”. By saying Coptic is an ethnicity, you are saying Egyptians are an ethnicity. Unless you mean coptic christians, but i don’t see how religion determines ethnicity, especially since coptic christians and coptic muslims are indistinguishable physically.
Go fuck yourself Jina.
Esra’a, I never blamed Palestinians for Egypt’s problem. I blamed Egyptians who put other Arab nations ahead of Egypt and sacrificed Egypt’s well-being for the sake of Arab nationalism.
And Palestinians are ungrateful. I don’t see how blowing up hotels shows gratitude. And though that is extreme, Palestinians (and Saudis and Iraqis and Jordanians and Yemenis) have nothing but contempt for Egyptians. The only “Arab” groups we get along with are the Lebanese, Kuwaitis, and Libyans.
Esra’a, I never blamed Palestinians for Egypt’s problem. I blamed Egyptians who put other Arab nations ahead of Egypt and sacrificed Egypt’s well-being for the sake of Arab nationalism.
Me too. Less headache for me.
Ohhh intellectual as in… “God, you’re stupid.” See kid, you started it, I just finished it. No biggy.
Accusations? That dumb fuck said Paki… goto a black guy and say nigger and let see what you get. But I wish I did do that my way or highway thing… you would not be posting here if I choose to do that.
Not only are you stupid, you are also have this reading comprehension issue…
Is this your “proper intellectual debate or any measure of decorum” thing again? Damn, I’ll be sure to follow in your footsteps then.
You mean after you fucked them up by going to war with Israel?
PS: That bombing thing only happened ones and that was done with the help of other Egyptians.
PS2:
Here you are blaming all Palestinians for something few did with the help of Egyptians.
Look Patrick you may not think your an Arab, but you sure as hell got the mentality of one.
Jina, Paki is an abbreviation for Pakistani, there is nothing racist about it. If it is a racial slur, its an inoffensive one, meant to be a playful abbreviation from colonial times, kind of like “gyppo” for Egyptians, which was often even used as a term of endearment. No Egyptian would get offended after being called a “gyppo,” they’d probably laugh. So stop being hyper-sensitive, and start growing up.
False
Okay you camel fucking sand nigger.
Apply it to the previous comment.
DB, whenever you decide to perform DNA tests on everybody in Egypt, and then in everybody else in the “Arab world,” and prove that the collectivity of Egypt is significantly different from the collectivity of the other “Arab” countries, then I can take you seriously. In the meantime you’re just arbitrarily throwing around labels and words. Does it matter if you’re Egyptian and not Arab?
Patrick is suggesting that the distinction is important because then it is okay to put “Egypt first.” In other words, it’s more understandable then to leave the neighboring countries out in the cold. To treat them as less than “Egyptians.” This is a fundamentally racist view to have, even if the intention is not to be racist or malicious. The idea that just because we are suddenly 2 different ethnicities, we should no longer be expected to cooperate with each other, is scary to me. Very scary.
To me, it seems like the only thing to get out of this “Egyptians are NOT Arab” discussion is that Egyptians shouldn’t feel bad about what’s going on in the rest of the Arab world. They’re not like us–we’re different! We can get out of this hell-hole because we’re Egyptians!
And really, if this “erroneous” identity is so widespread as you say, then how is it “wrong?” How can an identity be “wrong?” This is like telling Palestinians they’re not actually Palestinians, they’re Jordanians, or something else… oh wait.
Let each person decide what their identity is. If you think you’re “ethnically” Egyptian (whatever that means, as if it matters, as if people behave differently because of their ethnicity), fine. But don’t expect to find a sympathetic ear with every other Egyptian.
Jina and Patrick, seriously you 2 need to calm down.
This such a disappointing thread, but at least it thankfully settled down nicely… except for the 2 of you who are still at each other’s neck.
Patrick, the word Paki is actually considered a harsh insult by many Pakistanis. I did use it before as an abbreviation not knowing it was an insult and I sure did piss off some Pakistani friends. A few of them were calm since they knew I didn’t intend for it that way.
I don’t think DB meant it as an insult. I get some Chinese hip hop dudes coming up to me here sometimes and saying “what’s up my nigga” not knowing it’s insulting. I explain to them their mistake, they realize it and everything is cool after that.
Jina, chill out. Cursing isn’t going to make your comment any easier to understand.
Let’s try keeping it healthy please.
Drima, Paki is a racist term used at all South Asians… I grew with this shit… not going take this shit on this site.
I don’t know why my comment made you all angry.I just said most of people think like this and actually I know that Egyptians are not Arabs.Anyway sorry
Jina I really dont share any of my personal business at anyones request especially not at the request of a bitter and spitefully refugee like you. You have gone out of your way on many of my posts to attack me personally and I have put up with it out of professionalism and respect for this project and for Esra’a.
Honestly though I have respect for anyone who can disagree with me intellectually and they can even lose their cool once in a while, I wont hold it against them. Not you though, you lose your cool every single time and its not passionate discourse. Thats just you, you’re an angry bitter person and so I have no respect for you. I’m sorry Esra’a but I think I’ve listened to enough of Jinas imature disrespect.
I’m sure you’ll respond to this with more anger and cursing and accusations etc etc. It goes on and on with you.
This discussion didnt have to become so distasteful and I regret that it did. Although I know its not my fault, its yours. Yes I’m finger pointing and its at you. This is who you are, you cant discuss anything without being angry, spitefull and vulgar. If you have any balls you can address me on MSN. You know my screen name. Until then sit in your room and play world of warcraft.
I apologize to everyone for losing my cool and cursing earlier hopefully you all know my style enough to know its unlike me to lash out that way.
Oh yea as far as the Paki debate I have many Pakistani friends in fact they make up almost half of my friends. I refer to them as Paki they refer to each other as Paki and no one feels offended so stop crying with you racial sensitivities. I’ll be damned if i’ll be intimidated into being a hyper sensitive liberal fruit cake.
If people are offended by being called Paki as opposed to Pakistani, maybe its because they would like to be addressed a certain way. Which is no different than wanting to be called Egyptian not Arab. (even though I would be crazy to be sincerely offended by the term “arab”.)
C’est la vie!
Leila I understand your comment, you didnt spark this. I misunderstood you and I’m very sorry. You dont need to apologize.
I second everything DB said about Jina. He totally abuses his privileges. He has the nerve to call other people about for abuse while he turns every post into a cursing match and cries racism at every thing possible. Grow up!
Nobody has yet to present a decent argument regarding why Egyptians are ethnically ARab.
Is it not true that Egyptians predate the ARab invasion?
Did Egyptians speak Arabic before 800 AD?
Are Egyptians originally from the Penninsula?
Do Egyptians and Arabs have the same cultural traditions?
The fact is that DNA tests have not been done to determine such a survey. Obviously, Egyptians would group with “Arabs” and other non-Arab Middle Easterns/North Africans (Sephardim, Mizrahim Jews, Lebanese, Syrians, Berbers, Libyans) because of our proximity to them and that we have similar physical looks. But we are still distinct. Germans and French and Swiss look pretty similar, but they are not just grouped together under one all-encompassing word. The same standard applied to Europeans and Asians should be applied to the Arabic-speaking Middle Eastern peoples. We do not share a common background or a common ethnicity. We are Egyptian, NOT Arab. Even most Americans consider Egyptians distinct from other Arabs, and most French people do as well. Most importantly, most Egyptians do, and it’s interesting to note, that DB and I, the only Egyptians on this board and posting on this thread, agree on this, while we have disagreements in other areas. This is an issue of Egyptian identity, and it seems like Egyptians have spoken.
I ain’t a refugee you dipshit.
Since when did Arab become a racist term? Paki is, know the difference?
On the very first post that I ever read from you, you wrote some very disrespectful thing about me, it’s very simple why I would be like this toward you.
You do that with your friends, not others…
What abuse? Call who for what? Racism, you are defending the usage of the word Paki… If I abused my privileges, you have no idea what I will do.
No one has yet to claim that the Egyptians are ethnically Arab.
Hmm… aren’t you both Americans and didn’t you say you have some kind of French connection… + the 1000+ year of Arab rule didn’t involve fucking between Arab conquerers and the people who lived on the land they conquered? Hmm… ok bye.
I still think its a fuss
but everyone here has a point. I will Clarify:
“Egyptian – a native or inhabitant of Egypt
Arab Republic of Egypt, Egypt, United Arab Republic – a republic in northeastern Africa known as the United Arab Republic until 1971; site of an ancient civilization that flourished from 2600 to 30 BC
African – a native or inhabitant of Africa
Copt – an Egyptian descended from the ancient Egyptians
Cairene – a native or inhabitant of Cairo
Nubian – a native or inhabitant of Nubia; “Nubians now form an ethnic minority in Egypt”
2. Egyptian – the ancient and now extinct language of Egypt under the Pharaohs; written records date back to 3000 BC
Afrasian, Afrasian language, Afro-Asiatic, Afroasiatic, Afroasiatic language, Hamito-Semitic – a large family of related languages spoken both in Asia and Africa
Coptic – the liturgical language of the Coptic Church used in Egypt and Ethiopia; written in the Greek alphabet ”
Now we come to the genetic origins
“A group of noted physical anthropologists conducted craniofacial studies of Egyptian skeletal remains and concluded similarly that “the Egyptians have been in place since back in the Pleistocene and have been largely unaffected by either invasions or migrations. As others have noted, Egyptians are Egyptians, and they were so in the past as well.”
Genetic analysis of modern Egyptians reveals that they have paternal lineages common to indigenous North Africans/Berber populations primarily, and to Near Eastern peoples to a lesser extent. These lineages would have spread during the Neolithic and maintained by the predynastic period. Studies based on maternal lineages also link Egyptians with people from modern Eritrea/Ethiopia such as the Tigre. ”
Now we give a quick History
“Egyptians may have the longest continuous history of any people, spanning a period of some 7,000 years.
The Egyptians’ recorded history starts with the unification of Upper and Lower Egypt c. 3150 BC, an event that sparked the beginning of Egypt’s ancient civilization. A succession of thirty mostly native dynasties ruled for the next three millennia, during which Egyptian culture flourished and remained distinctively Egyptian in its religion, arts, language and customs. ”
HERE STARTS THE INFLUENCES
Alexander the Great conquered Egypt in 332 BC, giving rise to the Ptolemaic dynasty which introduced Hellenic culture to the Egyptians, but continued to rule according to ancient Egyptian traditions.
This stability shifted when the Egyptians fell under Roman rule, most notably with the introduction of Christianity in Egypt by Saint Mark in the 1st century AD. The Egyptians were soon incorporated within the Byzantine fold and remained so until the 7th century AD, when Egypt became part of the Islamic Caliphate following Amr ibn al-As’s conquest that brought Islam to Egypt.
Egyptians were ruled by a succession of Arabs, Mamluk Circassians, Ottoman Turks and British until independence was reasserted in 1922 and a republic was declared in 1953. ”
Jina was saying that through all of this there was interbreeding and therefore none of us are truly 100% something.
I will end on a historian point of view
“Egypt for the first time [since the Pharaonic era] is truly Egyptian. There are no sizeable foreign communities resident in the country any more…the impact of the October 1973 War (also known as the Ramadan or Yom Kippur War) found Egyptians reverting to an earlier sense of national identity, that of Egyptianism. Egypt became their foremost consideration and top priority in contrast to the earlier one, preferred by the Nasser régime, of Egypt’s role and primacy in the Arab world. This kind of national ‘restoration’ was led by the Old Man of Egyptian Nationalism, Tawfiq el-Hakim, who in the 1920s and 1930s was associated with the Pharaonist movement….[The Egyptians] have a kind of local social resistance—a tenacity which derives from their geographical-historical experience as a nation—both to pressure from their own State and government and to change…This perhaps is also the secret of the survival of Egyptians for so many thousands of years in a country which has seen so many God-Kings, Emperors, Prefects, Governors, Caliphs, Satraps, Sultans and other rulers. It became acceptable for Egyptians under Sadat and Mubarak to claim an Egyptian identity first and foremost. Their Arabism constitutes for them a cultural dimension of their identity, not a necessary attribute of or prop for their national political being. ”
NOW MY LAST POINT TO PONDER. If USA declared war on egypt would you Patrick or DB be egyptian or American?
You cry Nationlism living hundreds of miles away! If it means so much being egyptian. Why are you not in your country making a difference, a change?!?
Patrick and D.B., if you two do not believe that the term Paki is a racial slur, go on over to East London, Birmingham, or even Bradford and go call a South Asian a ‘Paki’ there, and you might end up with a broken nose, or even worse.
Calling one a Paki is the equivalent of calling a black man a nigger in the UK. Since you two were raised in the U.S., I doubt you two were aware of that.
Personally I didn’t care, but I could understand how some can be upset over this term, so we should watch what we say first, because this site should not be used to forment racial slurs even if there was no deliberate intention.
Okay Patrick, so since the term ‘Jap’ is merely an abbreviation for Japanese, does that, by your logic, conclude that there is nothing racist about it, despite the obvious?
Or what about “Leb”? Many people in Australia use the term “Leb” as a slur more often due to the antics of Lebanese Australians nowadays.
What’s your view on them?
I’ll add something, Jap is not an abbreviation for Japanese or Japan in any official literature. The 3 digit ISO code for Japan is JPY and 2 digit is JP. For Pakistan it’s PAK and PK. There are no other “abbreviation”. Whatever the hell they say is an abbreviation is false and based on racist crap or ignorance.
And Danial, I live in Canada, I used to get called a Paki on a daily bases. Same shit in America, either that or my cousins are lying, cousins who were born and raised there…
Jina, I’ve lived in the U.S. my entire life and the only time I’ve been called a Paki was in response to what happened in London on 7/7.
Maybe it depends on where you live. You anywhere near New Jersey?
Hell no!
I can only speak for what I know. In chicago and for most of America Paki is not a racial slur. If it is in other parts of the world thats one thing but in my community it is not. I actually went around asking Pakistani friends if they were offended by the term Paki and they were totally confused by the concept. They never heard of such a thing.
Wafa you reposted exactly what I said earlier with your research. Also for the last damn time my post is not about Egyptian nationalism its about Egyptian ethnicity. So your question about if they went to war is silly to me, no offense. However even if i wanted to answer the question its far too broad. Most likely I would flee the country and fight for no one.
I meant by my silly question that in the end this whole thing is silly.
You want to say that Egyptians are not arabs. You are right you are orignally North african/berber. So? whats the point? you make it as if hey egyptians remember what we were, where we came from, WHERE ARE WE NOW?!. Its exactly like the arabs saying we are the best, At the time when Islam was at its glory days!
Sorry But Egyptians, Arabs, Persians, Actually the whole region of the middle east Is a joke. We live and glorify the past. Fuck up the present. Squabble about the future.
You know what I love about Israel? Its unity Here is a country made up of sooo many different ETHNIC origins. From Europe, Africa, America, Arab, Egyptians yet they banded together and for a common goal, interestingly what binds them is their jewish faith.
Dont get me wrong, I dont want to get into religion and what not.
If you are an american with egyptian ethnicity, I am happy that you atleast acknowledge that. Many would not celebrate their ethnicity. Sadly If we dont improve Egypt or any of the other countries surrounding. Generations from now our great grandchildren will not be proud of their ethnicity.
lets squabble and reach understandings that better relations.
At the end of the Day we all have the same MUM AND DAD, ADAM AND EVE!
What unity? I suggest you go to Israel and see what a farce the unity is over there. Try being a Sephardic or Ethiopian Jew in Israel and see how they treat you.
I second Danial. Israel being united is actually just an image fed by their many PR campaigns. Try being an Israeli-Arab and see how they treat you there. Try to refuse (the rather traumatic) military involvement and see what happens to you there. In fact, try to be a pro-Palestine Israeli and see how much you’d have to put up with. The last thing Israel is, is united.
I dont understand whats so hard about understanding this post. It really boggles my mind. The purpose of the post was very simple and modest. It suggested that Egyptians are not Arab which wouldnt be interesting if everyone didnt already believe that Egyptians are Arab. Thats all. finished. Suddenly everyone started talking about religion and nationalism and the past and the future and the current state of the middle east. I dont give two craps about any of that.
Wafa: Read back if you like, I never said Egyptians are the best or anything like that I simply suggested we’re not Arab. If you dont care what we are then why are you so pationate about tellimg me you dont care. Its nothing worth discussing, how much Wafa doesnt care. You dont need to tie all these political concepts into a question about ethnicity.
Drima asked a similar question of his readers about Sudans ethnic identity and no one got this CONFUSED http://www.sudanesethinker.com/2007/02/03/sudan-arab-or-african/
Two Things: One thing I failed to bring up in this whole discussion is a point that may serve to clarify some things. For egyptians clarifying we’re not Arab is not just to be different. People think we are elitist for saying it. Here’s what it really comes down to. Besides it being a fact its important as we see our culture and our identity slowly being washed away. When they removed the statue of Rameses from Ramses square in Cairo people yelled good ridance to an infidel King and his memory. The more Arabized we become the more everyone forgets who we are, more importantly the more Egyptians forget who we are. Our culture is very important to us and why shouldnt it be. To take that away and lose being Egyptian would be a tragedy. Egyptians felt the same way after the revolution and Nasser put “Arab Republic” on our flag. Everyone yelled and screamed, “where has our egyptian identity gone” and thats why the flag now says Arab republic of Egypt.
2. Paki might be a slur in another place but here it isnt. I actually will do a survey of south asians and post it on here.
I know that they are treated differently but atleast they are a country that has not broken down or exploded with its differences.
Look at us the arabs?! Iraq? sunni and shia and kurds? palestine? hamas and fatah?
Uh, you obviously have no clue about Pakistan wafa.
Karachi itself was the victim of sectarian violence in the 90′s and this decade, between Sunnis and Shi’as. Sipah-e-Sahaba have been responsible for killing numerous prominent Shi’a intellectuals and have killed Iranian diplomats in Rawalpindi simply because they were Shi’a. In Quetta, al-Qaeda militants blew up a Shi’a masjid filled with worshippers, killing 45 of them. Just last month, sectarian violence erupted again near Peshawar, with Sunni gunmen fiiring on Shi’as, resulting in riots that torched Sunni-owned businesses.
One must take a look at the events going on in Islamabad with the Lal Masjid group even vowing to attack the parliament with suicide attacks if their demands are not met.
Whops my bad. Thanks for the elaboration Danial. I understand now why Jina was pissed off.
It would have been just better to explain things nicely from the start rather than starting a big inferno with flying eggs and tomatoes. DB’s use of the term wasn’t intended to be racist. But anyways at least now we all know that it’s a racial slur for most Pakistanis (and South Asians).
As for the post itself, DB was only sharing his preference to be identified as an Egyptian and not an Arab. So I too am also confused about the big fuss.
But anyways. I’m just glad that the debate has settled into a calm and civil manner. So that’s good. Yaaaaay!
Oh ya and Esra’a Happy Birthday!!
I am born in UK.
I have Irish, Scottish, English and Jewish background.
My passport is British.
But all these aspects don’t mean much to me.
I am a Muslim and my people who I love and am proud of are the Muslims.
Ethnicitys/Nationalities/races will come and go, but the Muslim Ummah beginning with Aadam (AS) and ending with the followers of Nabeeyunaa Muhammad SAWS is here to stay.
Nationalism and egocentricity is the real diseases in the hearts of men.
Only Islam could be inclusive and fair, rasing the status of black slaves such as Bilaal to a leader and non-arabs such as the Persians (Salmaan al Faarisee), to be respected by Arabs and non Arabs alike.
The early (Arab) Muslims didn’t care for tribe or Arabism, they fought their own fathers and cousins due to the latters disbelief. People adopted their culture/language through choice, not coercion. For the latter read up on the Spanish Inquisition on the Moors and Jews.
Drima, I was pissed off at the fact that he was defending the usage of the term, not the initial comment.
are you arab jina, hmmmmmmmm? as from what i’ve read, u are sri lankan? is that correct?….. well shut your trap, you ain’t even arab, so get to hell with it you wannabe. what’s wrong? us arabs too much for you i take it? oooh a little jealousy kicking in there, just because we are well renouned for our history, and the fact that know 1 ever talks about sri lanka huh? is that what is wrong with you? hey you should stop beating yourself up about it, ain’t you got nothing better to do youm poor poor soul
oh and you also said jina, that the egyptians are camel fucking sand niggers, is that so…well, ain’t you sri lankans darker skinned than us …YES….and do we have a problem WITH THAT….NO. WERE IS YOUR SELF RESPECT AND DIGNITY, ALL THAT DISGUSTING LANGAUGE YOU HAVE BEEN CUSSIN YOU FILTHY (WELL I WOULD SAY WOMAN) BUT NO REAL WOMAN GOES AROUND CALLING THE SHOT’S LIKE THAT. HAHAHAHA, I BET YOU WERE BROUGHT UP BY A PROSTITUTE BY THE SOUNDS OF IT. YOU MAKE ME LAUGH. YOUR HILARIOUS AND UNSTABLE,
Dear Zaida, few points.
1) Jina is not a racist. He works on this website with us, despite the fact that most of us are Arabs. As for the post he made, he was being sarcastic. But your misunderstanding of this only proved the fact that you are racist, making fun of his nationality and skin color.
2) Your comment does not contribute anything at all to the discourse. What is your point in publishing it? To stir a hate-fest?
3) Your comment goes against our comment policy. It’s linked to the right hand side of this page if you wish to read it.
Please stop posting such comments on this website which emphasizes respect. More importantly, don’t mock Jina for his nationality.
If any of this continues on this thread I will be more than happy to close it.
What does me not being an Arab has anything to do with it? And trust me I don’t want to be an Arab, I like to travel.
Sri Lanka didn’t exist in history you dumb idiot. And a people who watches our TV shows, our movies, eats our food, uses my people to build things because your own people are so incompetent shouldn’t talk.
And you are well known for blowing up school bus full of kids and beating your women and enslaving your women… and putting smart people in jail for talking so don’t start.
I know Arabs who are darker than me, so ehhh no.
You didn’t read the argument, yet you make a fool of yourself. Your bitching is actually not sarcasm, but it seem like this is how you feel. It is you who actually was raised by a prostitute if we use your logic and not me. Besides… what’s wrong with the oldest job in the world?
And go spend little bit more time in an English class, your English sucks.
Great topic, brilliant. Egyptians are definitely NOT Arabs, NEVER were, NEVER will be. Egyptians are Egyptians. God bless Mediterraneans!
Nationalism, Qawmeeyah, Qabiliyah…These are filth which the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) described as being akin to one placing the dead foreskin of ones father in ones mouth.
All it took was the disbelievers of my race (the one ‘educated/pregressive’ ‘Arabs’ bow down to, both culturally/intellectually) to invade your lands and implement their educational pattern on you to do what they wanted:
divide yourselves and wait to be conquered…no wonder Isreals still on the map…
well why did you call arabs camel fucking niggers jina, come on, what’s that all about?, ofcourse i’m going to bite back, that’s racist as far as i’m concerned, and if anyone had read this correctly,, you would have noticed that i said , we don’t have a problem with sri lankans ok! so why have a problem with us?
ZAIDA, read all the comments. Don’t make a fool of yourself by reading 1 comment then taking it out of context.
Let me demonstrate what you just did.
Look at what ZAIDA said, “camel fucking niggers”. Obviously ZAIDA is a racist.
Hope you get it.
Arabs are the problem. Let them all just let go and leave the rest of the world in peace.
muhammad was the whole root of the Arab problem.
I think Peter is the problem. If he stopped spamming blogs with his farting posts we wouldn’t have to suffer the inconvenience of his severe stupidity. I say let Peter go in peace before he astounds us with an even dumber comment.
hahhaha you make me laugh. First of all shobrawy you have no idea what your talking about. I have a surprise for you.. Your family shobrawy are originally from hadramot, yemen. Your great great grandfather settled in mansoura. So your more arab than you think. Now about egyptians, i agree that a certain percentage are not arabs, but they arent ancient egyptians also.. Some are arabs, turks, mamluks, copts, berbers, and mixed with european countries. Since egypt was conquered by the arabs at that time, it was a open space for all arabs in the gulf.. I mean if you want to think of it with common sense, then think of it this way. How is it possible that there are arab tribes in libya, maroc, algeria, and tunisia while egypt has no arabs???? egypt is in the middle of those countries and the gulf.. So explain to me how is it possible? Another thing if you read some history, you will know that once egypt, and iraq were islamic countries a lot of arab tribes from the gulf moved and settled in those two specific countries. Because they were known for good weather, and a good place for agriculture. Now you dont forget your identity.. One more thing im not saying that all egyptians are arabs.. I believe that the only true egyptians are the copts.. Some of them became muslims thats true. But in the end in my opinion every single muslim egyptian should be proud that they are arabs. For one that was the prophets race.. What were the ancient egyptians but pagans, who fucked each other because they were too proud to mix with there slaves. excuse my language.
Omar is right… The Copts are the only real connection to what was Egypt. The Egypt we also fantasize about hasn’t been in existence since the takeover by the Romans, and even then, it was more Greek than Egyptian. Islam and ethnicity should not be confused or used interchangeably. Many peoples that were not Arab in the areas conquered by the Arab armies took Islam for various reasons- tired of paying the tax for not being Muslim was a main one, as well as the intermarriage practices. As for Arabic- Arabic became the linguea franca, taking the place of Greek in business and in civil service. If one did not speak Arabic, one was missing out and in turn looked at as stupid. Common sense says learn and use the language that is predominant. Ok, this section of history was brought to you by (fill in the blank). I gotta go to the garage and learn some more Arabic (maybe bad Arabic).
If one is interested, I highly recommend reading “A History of the Arab Peoples” by Mr. Albert Hourani. Published by Warner Books. It takes you back to the days pre-dating the Romans and takes you all the way to Arab Unity and Disunity since 1967. I think a lot of you will find it helpful, enlightening and will leave you wanting to know more.
As a man of mixed genetics, culture and paths in this life, I will say never lose who you are today. Know where you came from and be able to speak of it eloquently, but never wear it as a rite of passage or a badge of being something more than the person next to you. Asalama.
Appreciate your comment dawoud. One more thing i forgot to mention ysterday. One main reason why you see sometimes egyptian blondes for an example calling themselfs arabs. Well prophet mohamed said (pbuh) that any muslim who speaks arabic is an arab.. I know that doesnt mean he is egyptian by blood, but im just telling you how it goes, in some arab countries..
Omar, I appreciate the insight. Since I now call the ME my home, I find myself wanting to know the ins and outs of culture here, and yes, it is predominantly Arab, but I do find beautiful blends of Persian/Arabic, Egyptian/Arabic and so forth. I think there is value in that, but to seek a harmonious one… I think we all want that.
Does anyone have any insight on our Spanish brothers and sisters who are discovering their roots (Arab/Moors)? I remember reading something about it recently where the younger generations in Spain are discovering they are descended from Arab/Moor roots, and as a course of this discovery, are embracing Islam as a way to reidentify with their heritage.
Hhaha i think you came to the right person dawood.. I was doing a research about this subject about a year ago.. Not only spain, but also sicily, and malta. Anyway to stick to spain you will find this topic very interesting, because like you said a lot of spanyards have spanish roots.. Let me clarify, at the time of the andaluce a lot of arab tribes moved there, because at that time it was the center of science, art etc. It was heaven on earth for anyone not only arabs.. Now for 900 years arabic was the first language in spain, and the arabs were the ones who florished that country. The university of andaluce was the best in europe.. anyone from europe who was seeking knowledge would go there.. For an example there was an english scientist, i dont remember his name at the moment, but he once said that the andaluce was full of well paved streets, and lights, while in the rest of europe there was nothing like that. Now back to your question, a really large population of arabs, and berbers mixed with the spanish minority. Now at the down fall of the andaluce, and the start of the catholic nation muslims were brutally killed. Some just left, and went to maroc, and most stayed but just didnt say they were muslim or arabs. Generation after generation there children just didnt know anything about islam, and were raised under a catholic country. About 6 months ago i was watching a documantary, and this old spanish lady was talking how she found out that her family traces back to an arab tribe.. Not only that but one of her great ancectors till this day is very respected amongest the spanish catholics. WHy? because he fought and killed the arabs at the rise of the catholic royals.. He was a member of a gang, and no matter if they were arabs or not they did anything for the money.. The royals gave him money to kill arabs so he did.. nnot so nobal, but my point is that since the start of the catholic rule, they have been trying there best to erase the muslim rule of spain. so much more i can say about this topic.. but i will give u a link later today..explaining everything.
Cheers!!
Yes, I have read that Andalusia was the center of science, as well as for literature and many other important things. It is no stretch of the imagination to say that Andalusia was the world’s saving grace, since so much of what was known before the Dark Ages of Europe was lost, while Andalusia kept it, documented it and improved on it (it being anything that was considered lost). Hell, we owe the Andalusians a debt of we can never repay. I pray we never have another Inquisition. Speaking of killing, I have discovered that there were bedouin mercenaries who were in the service of the Templars and others during the Crusades, so that also firms up your example that any person, if tempted with riches, will kill their own. Brother… how did we make it this far?
Well i believe it was islam that encouraged arabs to spread all over the world.. At that time people believed that it was there obligation to spread this religion, especially cause prophet mohamed (pbuh) told muslims to do that.. Like you said if it wasnt for the andalucians there would have never been a rennasance in europe.. The scientists, and all other intelaginet people were not only arab muslims, but arab jews, and arab christians. But in the end they were all ARABS!! 1,000 words from the spanish language are rooted to the arabic language..
Well i believe it was islam that encouraged arabs to spread all over the world.. At that time people believed that it was there obligation to spread this religion, especially cause prophet mohamed (pbuh) told muslims to do that.. Like you said if it wasnt for the andalucians there would have never been a rennasance in europe.. The scientists, and all other intelaginet people were not only arab muslims, but arab jews, and arab christians. But in the end they were all ARABS!! 1,000 words from the spanish language are rooted to the arabic language.. i find that quite interesting.
Yes, dawah is an important part of our faith, and is even more important today to spread true Islam as Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) had instructed us. If you get the chance to read Mr. Hourani’s “History of the Arab Peoples”, he does a great job of explaining how the Arabs migrated out of Saudia as they took the cause outwards. He explains how a few prominent Arabs, who claimed Muhammad as their kinsman, fanned out and established caliphates based on their lineage, whether it was true or made up (their lineage). It is interesting how Arabic has flavored the Spanish language. Let’s not stop there, for we have the music influences that were/are descended from traditional Arab styles of music that we find in Latin music, hip hop beats and loops. If one asks the average hip hop fan where the beats and the loops come from, most do not know that it is rooted in Arabic music/rythmns. Hell, you can hear it in reggaeton and Latin music just oozes Arab flavor.
Hhaha very true brother. I was just looking at some videos on youtube.. You can see that a lot of the tracks timbaland produces are stolen from old arabic songs.. I have a comment i forgot to mention about shobrawys writing.. He said the persians were to proud of there race.. Well let me explain something to u shobrawy.. In Iran the most respected people are the ones who clain they are decandents of the prophet (pbuh). The majority of people in iran are persian, and they seriously hate arabs for so many reasons, but at the same time there asyad or holly priests are partly arab.. Very funny when you see persians hating on arabs, very contridicting they are. Now when it comes to egyptians. You have to define exactly what u mean by an egyptian.. You mean the pharoahs? because i see a lot of people in egypt mainly copts who clain they decand from the pharohs. Which shows me that they know nothing about history.. First the pharoahs were all killed by the roman empire, and the ones that were not killed, commited suicide. WHY? because ancient egyptians believed that there was an after life, so death for them was not a problem at all. So there is absolutly no way someone can track is blood back to the pharoahs..Another thing pharoahs were so proud of there blood they didnt mix with there slaves israelets,copts, and blacks. The rulers would let there children sleep tog to avoid any kind of mix. So the only people i believe were or are true egyptians are the copts,and the nubians. The israelits left to jerusalem with moses. Now let me give you myself as an example.. I come from the sons of ali tribe..Who immigrated to egypt over 600 years ago. Does that make me in anyway egyptian less than you,mmm no!!!! Im am very proud to be egyptian, and arab, and first of all this non sense im proud to be MUSLIM. Egypt is defined as an arab country not because all the people are true arabs, but because we share the same culture, religion, and a lot more.. I will need a lot of time to explain to you the whole story..
How common is the view that you have to be a Muslim to be Arab?
In Bahrain it’s pretty common. I mean if you’re an Arab Jew you are considered less of an Arab. Ditto for Baha’is, but I’m not sure the same is true with Christians especially in Lebanon and Jordan where they are much more common.
I have to agree with Esra’a. The closer one gets to Jerusalem and the former bastions of Jewish and Christian faiths in the ME, these groups will point out they are not Arab, but are from peoples pre-dating Arab migration and Islam. I think earlier in pre-Islam Bahrain it was no question on who a person identified with, for Arabs were already here. Nestorian Christianity was the predominant religion and there was a Jewish community. When Islam was introduced here, from what I know, most families converted fairly quickly. There is one prominent Jewish family here now, but I do not know if they emigrated here from Iran or Yemen. The people of Bahrain before the Arabs were part of the Dilmun culture that ran from Mesopotamia all the way down into present day UAE/Oman. To call these people Mesopotamian would be pretty close to the mark, but we also had the Greek influence of Alexander’s empire followed by Byzantine culture (Eastern Roman Empire) and the flavor it took on with the city of Damascus mixed with the Persian of the Sassanid Dynasty.
Very true dawood..Also i think there are two answers to your question nadia.. First of all muslims are over 300 million from the 350m arabs. And the other thing is that most if not all arab jews dont say they are arabs. I once met a yemeni jew, and she immigrated to israel, then united states. She was telling me she is not arab. She kept insisting that she is a jew, not an arab.. But in fact her family comes from yemen.
Certainly not all of them are like that. The Arab Jews I know proudly state that they are Arab as much as they are Jewish and go against the idea that religion defines their identity in the Middle East (people assume they are Israeli even though they have nothing to do with Israel as a country.)
A person of Yemeni Jewish background- Ofra Haza, was the best representative of this, for she never denied identification with all four of her backgrounds- Yemeni, Jewish, Arab and Israeli. As I said in my previous thread on Ofra- we need more people of Ofra’s thinking and action.
Esra’a, you point something else out regarding Jewish people throughout the ME in that most do not identify with Israel and are more loyal to their country of birth and history, which is only natural. I have done some reading up of people from the ME who emigrated to Israel, but after some time, repatriated themselves back to their home country for a few reasons- the Jewish of European ancestry are completely different, there are opposing view points and even prejudice amongst them and most fell on harder times and felt they were better off going back to the country they were from. The only thing they had in common with everybody is their religion, and even that is a point of contention. For example, the Yemeni Jews migrated to present day Yemen and parts of southern Saudia over 2,500 years ago, and there is even some evidence that shows that these same tribes migrated down towards South Africa. The lineage and the customs get watered down as one travels further away from the home of origin. My point is that with isolation and migration, people will change their values, customs and even their genetic make up. Where am I going with this? Hell, I don’t know… I just had a bunch of info floating around in my head and needed to get it out. If anything, this is just nice trivia.
Huh. I have always found these arguments to be interesting. I am Berber on my father’s side (Algerian), and I know a lot of Berbers who make the same arguements as DB has here with respect to Algerians. Most Algerians, though, consider themselves Arabs culturally and civilizationally. This is a fact. They are nowhere near as militant about it as are Eastern Arabs (they never gassed the Kabyles or Chaouia or took away their citizenship), but they regard Arab culture, language and civilization as their own. Algerians tend to see being Algerian as a result of being Muslim. An Algerian is a Muslim from the area between Tunisia and Morocco, race is not really the big issue. Culture is somewhat important, but the big thing is that Algerians Arab/Berber Muslims, that is where unity is derrived.
Do not forget, it was us Maghrebines (Berber and Arab) that invaded and established al-Andalus, not Eastern Arabs. On the other hand, there are many North African ethnicities aside from the Arab one. There are Kabyles, Chaouias, Riffs, Chlehs, etc. All across the Maghreb there is a tremendous amount of diversity racially, linguistically and culturally. I would say even more so than in the Levant and Gulf countries.
My mother is Syrian Christian, and according to her family, this makes them the most Arab or all the Arabs. I was raised with the impression that to be a Syrian was to be an Arab and to be a Semite. To them means that they are better Arabs than Iraqis or Egyptians or whatever else. I’ve known Lebanese who say they are Phoenicians, Canaanites, and anything else that isn’t Arab, and I’ve been told that Levantine Christians are not Arabs by the same people. I don’t buy that. If Arabic-speaking Christians from historical/greater Syria are not Arab what else are they? What was there before was conquered, vanquished, absorbed, and is gone. And there were Arab Christians before there were Arab Muslims in Syria. But to me, how other people identify themselves is not important. If a Lebanese or an Egyptian wants to claim a pre-Arab idenity, he is entitled to. I understand that somebody who is raised speaking this or that language is not necissarily of the people or originated that language, Arabic, French, what have you. My father learned Arabic before he learned Berber, and so do many Algerian and Moroccan Berbers. I would caution against telling other people what their identity is, though. You may call yourself Egyptian, but it is not your place to tell Maghrebis or Syrians or Iraqis or whomever else what they are, to tell them that they are “pretending” to be Arab. Plain and simple. Let them be who they are comfortable being.
And contrary to what some might think (I am refering to the one who said Algerians speak French), Algerians DO NOT SPEAK FRENCH. Nobody in Algeria, save for the richest of the rich (who are very, very few) and perhaps some very old people speaks French as their native language. Almost all Algerians speak some variety of Darja (Algerian Arabic) or Berber from birth and learn French later on out of necessity or choice (fewer and fewer actually learning proper French, thank God). French is the major FOREIGN langauge in Algeria. It is not a native tongue to anyone, except maybe a few hundred people. That is one of the most pernicious stereotypes out there about Algerians. Out dialect may be bizarre to Easterners, but it cannot be that bizarre!
Hahahhaha this is seriously funny man.. Did you read anything about history man??? If your a decent of an ancient egyptian, then prove it to me?? id like to see something like a family tree, tracing you to a pagan pharoah????
Ramses had 110 children from 50-plus wives/concubines. I am sure that there are many people walking around today who have his blood.
Syrians before Christianity- Roman, Greek, Persian, Hittite, Kurd, Chaldean, Phonecian and others.
Syrians after Christianity- early migration of Arabs with the trade routes, biggest wave during spread of Islam, Turk.
I’m gonna have to call the question card on a small minority of Algerians who speak French. A lot of them do, and I am not going to alienate the Algerian/Moroccan community in France and abroad who speak French and a dialect of Arabic found in North Africa.
Soemthing else that is not mentioned with regards to North African peoples- the Carthaginians who were descended from the sea peoples of Phonecia, followed by the Romans, followed by the Visigoths followed by a brief period of Byzantine during Emperor Justinian all interlaced with the Berber and nomads deeper within the interior of North Africa.
Summary- there are no pure peoples. Islam does not erase history or past cultures or past civilizations. Be proud of your mix
“I’m gonna have to call the question card on a small minority of Algerians who speak French. A lot of them do, and I am not going to alienate the Algerian/Moroccan community in France and abroad who speak French and a dialect of Arabic found in North Africa.”
Have you been to Algeria? Nobody speaks French as a native language anymore. Almost everyone can use it functionally and is at least half-literate in it, but the vast, vast majority of Algerians speak Arabic as their first language and language of primary use. Algerians living in France are citizens of France. Of course they speak French, like Lebanese in Brazil speak Brazilian Portugese. That does not mean that because there are more people of Lebanese blood speaking Portugese than there are Lebanese citizens living in Lebanon speaking Arabic that the “Lebanese” therefore are speakers of Portugese. And much of the Algerian diaspora in France is not even Arab (but Kabyle, Berber, Amazigh) and speaks Berber along with French and perhaps Derja.
“Soemthing else that is not mentioned with regards to North African peoples- the Carthaginians who were descended from the sea peoples of Phonecia, followed by the Romans, followed by the Visigoths followed by a brief period of Byzantine during Emperor Justinian all interlaced with the Berber and nomads deeper within the interior of North Africa.”
This is not quite accurate. The Romans, Carthaginians, and Visigoths did not penetrate very deeply into North Africa, and rarely established order beyond the coastal settlements, and were constantly fighting with the Berber tribes. They never actually conquered the whole of what they claimed, let alone settled it. There are very few Roman settlements in the “interior” of North Africa, and those that exist are military encampments that were not used by civilians and were closed to natives for the most part. Most North Africans remained Berbers and did not intermarry with the coastal peoples, though it undoubtably happened. I wouldn’t consider this mixing at all significant culturally or racially. The fact is that in Algeria, at least, the strongest and most longstanding cultures are those of the Imazighen, the Arabs, and of Islam. This Carthaginian or Roman business is long gone, and was not durable at all. What we have now reflects this.
Well i have a very easy answer to that.. Imagine th royal family now in saudi arabia ok.. King abdel aziz married a lot of wives, not sure of the exact number.. Now his children are a lot, but you dont see any other tribe in saudi arabia claiming that they are relatives of the royal family? if anything the royal family claime to be related to al-anzi clan, but thats not my point. Once the roman empire conquered egypt they started killing all the royals, and the ones they didnt kill commited suiced. I stated this before dawood, but i dont think u read it. In the end i have to explain something. I agree that there were egyptians NOT PHAROAHS before arabs migrated to egypt. But that doesnt make them more egyptian than any egyptians with arab decent. Like after egypt becoming a muslim counry over 1,000 years ago. Amr bin 3aas soldier got there familys and they lived in sa3eed misr or upper egypt.. At first they were not close to the COPTS!! who lived there at that time, but when the copts started becoming muslims, they intermarried. That is over 1,000 years ago and throughout time after that, a rush of arab tribes came to egypt. I can name you at least 30 different tribes, who moved to egypt over 700-1000 years ago.. Does that make them less egyptian than any copt.mmm no, in the end egypt is an arabic country, and it will always be. No matter how much you talk about it, its a fact. I as an egyptian am proud to be called as an arab, not only cause i come originally from an arab tribe, but even if i didnt know my decent i would be proud also.
Bro… It wasn’t a question. I am just saying that the guy had a lot of kids, and to add further, isn’t it ironic that they have named a male contraceptive after him? Ok? Lighten up, please. I am not siding with anybody here. No, I have read everything you have written. I am proud that you are Arab and Egyptian, and I am proud to be your brother.
Nouri, thank you for the in-depth local knowledge. The business of Carthage and Rome may be over, but their bloodlines still run in North Africa. Have you even studied the ways of Rome and the people that made up Rome? They were definitely not all from Rome, but from all areas of the Roman Empire, and there were many North Africans serving in the service of Rome in many areas of government, civic duties, the military and not all of these people did this in North Africa. There’s nothing wrong with adding the contributions of Carthage and Rome to the areas of North Africa. To do so is very narrow minded and is not a true potrayal of history there.
In the end, whether you like it or not, there are no pure peoples. We are all mixed up.
Hhaha i actually didnt know that.. Why so? Im sorry bro im not mad at you, im just really frustrated of all this im egyptian not arab talk. Usually its the talk of copts in egypt. Which i agree with them, they arent arabs. But most muslims can if they want trace there family name to an arab tribe. There are over 10 books in egypt stating that there are over 50 tribes in egypt. But egyptian muslims tend to like to stick with all that pharoah, and ancient egypt stuff. Let me give you an example lol, this is actually kinda funny to me, and you might find it funny too. I had a realyl close friend of mine, who once got me a paper saying that he is form the al 2shraf(decents of the prophet pbuh). I was thats cool man.. Anyway a month later im siting with him, and he starts saying im not arab, im egyptian etc etc. Same talk as this discussion.. And i cracked, i was like ok how arent you arab, and you are from the prophets family?? This is just one example, of people in egypt, who are in reality from veyr famous arab tribes, but there families never teach them anything..
Ps.. my appology if i offended you in anyway dawood.
Why some company honors Ramses by naming themselves and a rubber after him? I dunno… Maybe it’s a message that if a man uses their prophylactic condom, the user won’t be like Ramses and his urge to father 110 children! Lol! I mean, bro! This guy was like the neighborhood tom cat! As you know, we have men here in the ME who have track records that come pretty close to exceeding Ramses’. All I can say is that I hope they’ve got plenty of cash to take care of them all, and I can just imagine how difficult it would be to spend time with all of the kids, let alone take care of their mothers. Not enough hours in the day for any of it.
No offense taken, bro!
There are quite a few people who claim descendency from Muhammad (PBUH). Someone even traced Queen Isabella of Spain back to Muhammad (PBUH), so it just goes to show that Arab blood doesn’t stop with Islam and men will be men, for we men will never extinguish the primitive urge to have sex and ensure our bloodline continues. That’s just the nature of things.
As for me, part of my heritage goes back 800-plus years to Yamato Japan and the Kamakura period when my ancestral family moved from the Japan Alps in Central Japan to the Kanto Plains on the request of Minamoto Yoritomo’s Kamakura Shogunate, for he wanted skilled samurai families he could trust. This period was the rise of the samurai class. My family name is Yuyama (Yu- hot water; Yama- Mountain). We have a family cemetery with some head stones that can barely be made out, and the oldest one we can read mentions a man named Seimon. Japan’s original people were the Ainu. There are still some Ainu left in Northern Japan, but most have intermarried with the Japanese. Ainu are closer to caucasian in race, and nobody knows how they got there. They were displaced from the south. Japan was peopled in three waves, excluding the Ainu. Nobody knows exactly where these waves came from, but the last group were horseback riders. We are close cousins to the Koreans, but we do not share anything with the Chinese in DNA. Our DNA is a close match with the Mongols and Turks, and even our language is grouped with the Turkic-Altaic family.
As for my Scottish ancestry, I am of clan Davidson (Son of the Beloved), it is peppered with members who weren’t originally Scottish, but from Normandy and Scandinavia. We have one member of our group who has collected extensive information and has claimed Charlemagne is part of the line. The Scots came from Ireland, and the original peoples were Celtic, as were most of the original peoples of Europe, as you may know.
Dawoud,
I made no arguement about pure blood lines. I simply stated the fact that Roman penetration into North Africa was very minimal and their contributions, quite honestly, if you are going by any historical account besides a few Roman authors, were also minimal. They left almost nothing behind. Most of the Romans you are referring t were as North African as pieds-noirs, that is they were Roman coloni, transplants from Rome proper, many of whom were moved to North Africa and left very often. You are vastly over stating their presence and their importance. It was not a pivotal or important period, and the idea that it was is one that was promoted mostly during the French occupation by the French government to justify European settlement in the country side and has long since been discredited by scholars of Rome, the ancient Near East and Algeria/North Africa nowadays. I suggest you read modern histories of Algeria, in both french and in English. It is not a true portrayal of history to say that Carthage or Rome is of any genetic or cultural relevance to modern North Africans; Berber is the main blood line (obvioulsy not the only though), and Near Eastern ones are far after. The DNA analyises of North Africans shows that the overwhelming majority of their DNA type is Berber, with some Near Eastern and some Turkic along with tiny bits of European and sub-Saharan African. It is something like in the high 80%. Obviously not pure, but I would hold my horses when talking about Carthaginian or Roman blood being relevant or “flowing through” anybody’s veins because it doesn’t jive with history or with science.
003.103 وَاعْتَصِمُوا بِحَبْلِ اللَّهِ جَمِيعًا وَلا تَفَرَّقُوا وَاذْكُرُوا نِعْمَةَ اللَّهِ عَلَيْكُمْ إِذْ كُنْتُمْ أَعْدَاءً فَأَلَّفَ بَيْنَ قُلُوبِكُمْ فَأَصْبَحْتُمْ بِنِعْمَتِهِ إِخْوَانًا وَكُنْتُمْ عَلَى شَفَا حُفْرَةٍ مِنَ النَّارِ فَأَنْقَذَكُمْ مِنْهَا كَذَلِكَ يُبَيِّنُ اللَّهُ لَكُمْ آيَاتِهِ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَهْتَدُونَ
003.104 وَلْتَكُنْ مِنْكُمْ أُمَّةٌ يَدْعُونَ إِلَى الْخَيْرِ وَيَأْمُرُونَ بِالْمَعْرُوفِ وَيَنْهَوْنَ عَنِ الْمُنْكَرِ وَأُولَئِكَ هُمُ الْمُفْلِحُونَ
003.105 وَلا تَكُونُوا كَالَّذِينَ تَفَرَّقُوا وَاخْتَلَفُوا مِنْ بَعْدِ مَا جَاءَهُمُ الْبَيِّنَاتُ وَأُولَئِكَ لَهُمْ عَذَابٌ عَظِيمٌ
Aal-E-Imran 003.103-105
THANK YOU SHOBRAWY IT’S FACT WE ARE NOT ARAB .
Ok where do I start. Well firstly I agree with the main point which is many Egyptions feel or are Egyption not Arab. I think its very important that other people respect this. I think someone raised a point that Egypt had been invaed and fallen to many outsiders throughout the countires history so its more than likely that many Egyptions early on became a fairly mixed people. However they are still Egyption as they were born in Egypt even if they are not ‘indiginous’. Palestinians arent actually related to the annicant Phillistines but to people born in that country it is their home and they put their nationallity first. If someone of Arab origin is born in Egypt they may wish to call themself an Egyption even thoughthey are not ‘ethically’ Egyption. Look at countries such as England. It has people from many parts of the world who come to live there and start families. I know lots of British Asians (as in Indian) and they put their family first and then their nationality, which is British. Funnily enough many Palestinians despite popular beleif put being Palestinian before being Arab for they to have a unique culture due to the history of the land they have been born in. My father is an ‘Arab’. He was born in Bethlehem and his family (clan) came there from the Red Sea coast of Arabia 1500 – 2000 years ago. They strongly conside themselves Palestinian before Arab, this I know for a fact. Over the time his family have lived there, they have absorbed the different cultures and are very proud of being from there. Wasnt Ismeils mother Hagar an Egyption ? If so that would mean early Arabs or at least the forefathers of the Arab race partly Egyption in origin ? Im of Palestinian origin but born and bought up in England therefore Im British. Im not muslim, Idont speak Arabic and I havent adopted anything from the Arab culture. I fully agree with your point, Egyptions are Egyption.
Cont….I know several people who are from Egypt but can trace theri family roots back to Arabia but they still consider themselves Egyptians. There are some Egyptians who actually consider themselves as the real desendants of the annciaent ones, this is debatable but what matters is their nationallity. They may very well have Greek blood, Roman/Italian blood, Nubian blood, and Arab blood, this is why Egyptians and Palestinians are unique. They are not simply Arab but it would be ignorant to forget the several hundreds of years of Arab history in the countries. Secondly a lot of the reason Egyptians and Palestinians consider themselves independent is very political. It was to get rid of foreing monarchies and european invaders. The Egyptians had a revolution in 1919 i think and tried to get rid of King Farouk, who by the way was an ethnic Albanian not an Arab. However Farouk helped start the Arab League although he wasnt even ethnically Arab. Palestinians and Egyptians are very similar. Peace
My two cents:
It all really depends on your definition of arab. The islamic definition being a very loose one. Remember race itself is a social construct. Of course some people feel the word arab is so taboo they want to disassociate themselves from it, personally I love the generalization.
Nowdays, Egypt is populated by arabs ( it is a fact even if they don`t want to admit it and they take it as an offence ). An arab who is living in Egypt will always consider himself Egyptian cuz either he is an ignorant or cuz of his pride. And fun fact … all the treasures of Egypt today ..pyramids, sphynx ..are Egyptian`s creation .. today Arabs are taking advantage of them and exploit them. This is not only my opinion .. millions of others opinion and nobody should take the fact that he is Arab as an offence …this is what I understand from the fact that most of you don`t admit that u are Arabs
true. Many Egyptians today do have some ‘Arab’ genetics and culture, it would be very ignorant to dissmiss this. However even Egyptians of Arab descent feel proud to Egyptian. Im sure there are also some Arabs who live in countries like Egypt and they are too proud to admit to being Arab because of the view of them in the media and they therefore hype up being Egypt and as a result become very anti-Arab. I think that where your born and grow up are the things that shape you and give you your idenity. The term ‘Arab’ itself is very genreal. Some of the founders of the Arabs League werent even ‘ethnic’ Arabs, they were Albanion. I think one of the founders of the Arab Higher Comitee was Egyptian. The Muslim Brotherhood is and Egyptian muslim group, not Arab. I can understand peoples resentment towards the Arabs but I urge people to start seperating Arabs leaders from Arab people. Palestinians like egyptians are mixed and share that and many aspects of history in common. They are proud to be from that particular country or land. That is what comes first. Of course people are proud of their anncestors or at least proud to be living in the land with such a rich past, regardless of if they are the ‘true’ descendants of them or not. They are born there and they grew up and livedthere so they are shaped and influenced by that, that is what makes somewhere your homeland. peace
PaliEgyptians right, many of todays Egyptians do share similar culture and ‘genetics’ with Arabs. Arab culture is different and unique in each country the Arabs invaded during the Islamic conquests. This is because they would of also absored the ‘native’ cultures to and mixedthem with their own, look at the Moors for instance. They were ‘Arabized’ Berbers (Berber is a general term). The term Arab is verygeneral as well. Firstly its often used nowadys for political reasons and secondly an Arab has come to mean anyone who speaks Arabic and is Muslim. Real ethnic Arabs come from todays Yemen and Arabia. However those people are very mixed as well. Should we not forget that Hagar (Ishmails mothers) was an Egyptian. Doesnt that therefore mean that ‘Arabs’ trace some of their roots partly to Egypt. I think its very narrow minded to rule out several hundred years of Arab history in Egypt and ignore the fact that Egypt was such a vast melting pot of cultures. It also seems popular these days to use Arabs as scapegoats. People need to seperate Arab leaders from Arab people. Genetic research can prove all politicians and hardline nationionalists want it to but idenity is down to the individual. Its very hypocritical to complain about not wanting to be called an ‘Arab’ and hate being told that its your identity but then your happy to say that every Egyptian is a descendant of the anncients. I can see why you do this and I dont blame you but what if some Egyptians do feel they can relate to being Arab. Isnt it a little harsh to just assume they feel the same way as you. I know many do but there are ones who dont. There are Egyptians who do have Arab roots but they still consider themselves Egyptians. It is well known that people from other countries who came to Egypt often assimulated into Egyptian society and became part part of the country, Arabs included. Of course Arab who came to Egypt several hundred years ago and stayed there are going to feel Egyptian. Their descendants consider Egypt as their homeland to. So my conclusion is that everyone living in Egypt that is born there is Egyptian regardless of where their family come from originally. I know several Palestinians who have roots in Arabia but for generations have had family who live in Palestine so they therefore consider that to be their homeland. Family name, villege/town/city/region comes first and foremost to many Palestinians and Im sure this is similar with Egyptians. Being Arab is sometimes a difficult label for Palis to as they dont think of themselves as that or not as their first choice of idenity even though they have arab culture like Egyptians. Identity is a personal thing. It is down to the individual. It is determined by where your born and live and your enviroment.
Good post! I agree: thank god the ethnic groups bordering the Mashreqi “Arabs”: Persians, Kurds, Azeris, Turks, and to a lesser extent Berber peoples and Egyptians have kept their own identity.
Well First off egyption people are more negroid than anything. Ok we have arab egyptions and the egyptions it’s really kind of mix now no longer pure. Yea that’s right we are not fucking arabs we dont care for blowing random shit up ok.Second of all it’s in North Africa people Hear me NORTH AFRICA a we are part of a black Nation the media for years have portrayed us a s being white which we are surely not not even close. They did this because of hair and shit like that. Egyptions were once part of the ethiopiens colony if you did not know which are also african.The queen of egypt was black there is no deniying when it comes to race that the ancient egyptions were indeep a black society I think those egyptions and people that decended from them are called copts so get it right people we are black people were not arab not white (BLACK) we range in differnt skin tones get educated.
lol what the hell are you on about Egyptian ? Egyptians are not white but they arent black either…..they are mixed though, they are Egyptian. I cant beleive people are ruling out several hundred years of Arab rule and invasions not to mention the amount of invaders who came before the Arabs; Persians, Greeks, Romans just to name a few. I know many Egyptians and they all look different from one another. Some are dark, some are light skinned and have blue eyes and others are Nubian. It is a nationality these days not a race. Yes they have their own culture, there is no denying but there is also no denying that they are mixed either. Get it into you heads. You lot cant even define an ‘Arab’. You hate them because of politics and religion which is fair enough but try and seperate arab people from arab leaders.
umm dude like I said the Ancient egyptions were undeniably black people damnit now I don’t want to argue about it. God you white people dont listen to shit.It’s a egyption telling you that he is negroid and you still lopok to the arabs. Just cause some have blues eyes dont mean shit. I’m african also I had blue eyes. Blacks can have fine hair and blue or green eyes so stop sterotyping please!! How the hell you gonna tell me what race I am? Look up acient egypt the original egyptians ok. They were black later in the future thats when the mixing started so learn some facts please. And yes I know they are differnt skin tones of egyptians but look at full blooded black people some are light skinned damn yellow basically some are beautiful carmel and some are black so there skin tone dont mean anything they may not be full black but there are some still around so stop trying to deny us our acient history. Egyptions are black and proud Nigger Nigger Nigger get over it bitch.
But yea how do you explain nefitiri being black huh??????? Yea just the white man trying to make us something we are not. Just like people from europe are white and still cacasuain people from egypt are and were black compared with the african americans damnit shut up and love your own race even though there aint really a reason to be proud of being white. I mean you people stole this land from the damn indians and still are rascist against others when you dont even belong here. I’m sure the indians would not have had a problem with us niggers comming over to the land I’m sure we would have not killed them. I mean you call mexicans weat backs, you call jews kikes, you call us niggers and middle easterners sand niggers I mean god is it anybody you people dont hate. Im glad we my have a nigger president how yall feel about that shit?
Oh dear Egyptian, Ive got a feeling your not Egyptian at all but just another Afrocentric. Either way, you havent listened to anything Ive said. Firstly Im not white, Im Palestinian and secondly I wasnt denying that some Egyptians were black. You are missing the point. I dont know what the ‘race’ of the actual anncient Egyptians was but I do know that by the 25th Dynasty, Egypt had come to be ruled by Nubians (from what is now Sudan). The anncient Nubians were heavily INFLUENCED by Egyptians. There were undoubtedly Nubian rulers of Egypt and they very probably intermarried with locals but there origin was not Egypt. They may of assimulated into the Egyptian community and become Egyptian but the same could be said of some of the Greeks who ruled Egypt. This does not mean that Egypt is Greek but it does not mean its Nubian either. It seems nowadays people have a tendancy to blame the Arabs or feel hatred/self-hatred towards Arabs which is understandable in some ways but it also seems people are living in denial about the fact that Egypt had fallen to several other invaders long beofre the Arab/Islamic conquests. In other words its just very easy for us all to blame the Arabs and forget the history before they came to Egypt. This doesnt therefore mean that Egyptians are Arabs but I find t hard to beleive that all Egyptians are the descendants of Pharoes. Im not ruling out that many Egyptians carry the blood have genetics relating them to the anncients Egyptians but many also have a bit of Roman blood, a bit of Persian, some Greek , a bit of Arab, a little Turkish etc etc. There is no ruling this out, its a part of the history of Egypt just as much as the ancient Egyptians. Some are mixed and some are ‘pure’ but guess what…..they are all Egyptians as a nationality at least. I say this because Im Palestinian and have read in depth the history of Palestine. It is portrayed on the news and in the media as beign Arab, which is true in many ways but the fact of the matter is, Palestine itself like Egypt has been invaded throughout history. There are people who can claim very old roots to the land and like some Egyptians, they claim to be descendants of the original inhabitants of the land while others in Palestine are clearly a mix. What binds them altogether is beign from Palestine and sharing culture as well as history. If anyone reads indetail the history of Palestine and Egypt they can see this. Palestine like Egypt was Christian (and Jewish) before the Arab/Islamic conquests. Like Egypt, many Arabs also settled and intermarried into the local population in Palestine, thus giving way to new identities, ones that werent purely Arab/Muslim or Chritian/Mediterainian, they were unique. Also similar to Egypt, Palestine had been invaded by many of the same invaders long before the Arab/Islamic conquests and was already a melting pot of culture and races. Palestinians are still Palestinian regradless of their ethnic background, hence you get Palestinians of African descent, ones of Armenians descent, some of Assyrian descent, greek descent and of course Arab descnet. It was Arabs or at least Muslims (the Ottomans) who were the last significant empire and civilisation to control Palestine so that is today the most dominatn culture but there is no denying the past of these countires is mixed, its part of the peoples heritage and in many ways their identities. The idea of race is so vague it is hard to pin-point what is pure and define it. That is why we think nowadays more in temrs of nationalities ie you can be of African origin but be an American as well. You can also be of Arab origin and trace your family/clan back to the Arabian penisular but may have had several generations of your family living in a coutnry like Palestine or Egypt so you would most probably consider yourself Egyptian or Palestinian. Peace
Great article. I invite you to join the Facebook group “I’m Egyptian not Arab!”
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2223728238
Salam, im a born native american. I converted 2 islam. Muslim is who i am. Its my heart. Allah (swt) came 2 my heart. Allahu Akbar! Bismillahir Rahmanir Rahim.
this is hilarious and utterly pathetic…you idiots think we r Arabs? Egyptians are African whether you like it or not. ancient Egypt belongs to Egypt and the credit goes to us Egyptians NOT Africans and NOT Europeans…im sick of ppl trying to steal our history, theres the white western bastard that tries claiming that Egyptians were all white, the hell with him, and then there is the black african who claims that Egyptians were all black, wrong again, u fools just wanna steal the credit from us, so u make up lies with absolutely no solid evidence. ancient Egyptians were not all black only some where, ancient Egypt and Egyptian weren’t racist either. we accepted people of all skin color cuz Egyptians were of all skin color from black to white with a vast majority of bronze/beige skin. Egypt wuz the most populous country in the world with more than 10 million people. the amount of foreigners that came in may have been alot, but not overwhelming, and thankfully, because the foreigners were almost alwayz racist bastards, they mostly didn’t intermix with the Egyptians. i hav been in Egypt and i am Egyptian and i am African, middle eastern, and Mediterranean whether u like it or not (i mean look at a God damn map), it is Egypt that gave the name “afriqana” which the phonecians learned and the greeks adopted and the romans used and evolved into the modern term “africa”…
there wuz no such thing as Sudan, it wuz called Nubia until the europeans came along and caused their typical split up…Egyptians and Sudanese are the same ppl, so if you wanna make a point, stop adopting European imperial bull shit..
point is… we’re not arab if you think egyptians are arabs you dont understand math. concerning the arab invasion, i already mentioned that fortunately almost all the ppl that occupied us never mixed with us (arabs established an entire new city fustat so mixing was limited)
egypt was 1 of the most populous countries of the world at the time (around 10 million) and the arab army was only 4000
my problem is wen som1 comes to a generalization and claims that a whole population is descended of another altho the original population is muuuuuch bigger and muuuuch older than the latter…simple as that…
And Palestinian girl… more Egyptians died fighting for Palestine than Palestinians.
And to this dumb-ass that thinks Egyptians were extinct.
Egyptians are decendants of the Ancient Egyptians, now do you mean to tell me the Ancient Egyptians were Arab. If not then you really have no argument! You trying to rob me of my ethnicity is far more offensive then me telling you I’m not part of yours when I’m actually not.
Omar Says:
Hahahhaha this is seriously funny man.. Did you read anything about history man??? If your a decent of an ancient egyptian, then prove it to me?? id like to see something like a family tree, tracing you to a pagan pharoah????
Egyptians are the longest continuous population. Since 5000 BC, does this dumbass think Ancient Egyptians went extinct… notice the word “continuous”. You thought all the Ancient Egyptians died and Amr Ibn Il As came to an empty land??
hahahha
No one knowns more about Egypt than Egyptians. The past is very important to any culture. Without the past the future can be bleek. We all have to know who we are. The word race is used wrong in our society because when god created us it was man and woman, adam and eve. People will try to say that people is this race and that race. god created human, animal, plants. Egypt is in Africa. Egyptian = north African. Invasion has been more of a problem in robbing the true culture while spreading their own. To see Egypt is to know the fact especially in the courtyside where most of the country live. African people come in all shades, eye color, and hair texture. that include all of africa north africa, east africa, west africa, and south africa since the beginning of time. oh and Egyptians are egyptians first and always
I agree with you 100% if you are indeed saying that egyptians were and traditional are black africans.
Yes I am saying Egyptians are Africans. I don’t agree with using the word black to describe people. because even the darkest skin color is dark brown. Plus majority rules if most of Africa is various shades of brown from the darkest to the lightest brown. then it should just be African.
yes I agree
or they were until the arabs came.
In response to what you said Paris: You know what I think even though Egypt is a muslim religion country and was taught another langauge that’s not the culture of egypt. We can’t change who we are because someone told us you are this religion and you must speak this language. Things will change, it’s been a long time but things will change. Africa is a big continent and there can never be a north Africa without the west, east, and south. Religion is a religion but ones culture is who we are as African people and no one can take that away.
Jina, you are not even egyptian in the first place to correct the author that he should call himself an arab instead. if you are indian, then go to indian forums instead. MEDDLER
You guys are not getting the whole point of this argument!!!
I’m fully Egyptian and refuse to call myself an Arab, if language defined your ethnicity then Egyptians have none at all, we spoke so many languages before Arabic. Egypt is an Arabic republic because Arabians were the last ones who came and made it that way….. Egypt is a Coptic country…. the word egypt stands for cept which in English is copt. Coptic is still a living language, just not spoken often anymore because Arabic now is the language. I believe I’m Coptic, which means I’m Egyptian, and if you’re Arabic you’re not always an Egyptian, you are an Arab that came centuries earlier to live in Egypt.
I’m Egyptian. I was born in Egypt and lived there for some time. Egyptians definitely have their own set of unique traditions and culture. Yet, many of us refer to ourselves as Arabs and we embrace this collective idea that we’re all Arab. I think that it’s strange to throw away our ethnicity and culture and just be part of the Arab collective. That would be like if all the countries that were invaded by Rome in ancient times just gave up and all called themselves Romans.
There’s nothing wrong with being Arab if you’re from the Arabian peninsula and so there should be nothing wrong with being an Egyptian if you’re from Egypt. We may speak the language, but that is simply not who we are. The Assyrians reside in what is now Iran or Iraq and many of them speak Arabic. They don’t call themselves Arabs. I’m glad I found that there other Egyptians out there like me who feel that they are Egyptian and not Arab. This isn’t about superiority, rather it’s about embracing our rich history and culture instead of adopting someone else’s. And yes I recognize that Egypt has adopted some parts of Arab culture, but that’s just like America has adopted a lot of European culture due to the makeup of the country. Americans still do not consider themselves to be European.
Egyptians are Egyptians. We are not Arabs. We speak a dialect of Arabic the same way Americans speak a dialect of English. The vast majority of Egyptians are decended from ancient egyptians. it’s useless to contest this fact. a handful of Arab, Greek, Turkish and Roman settlers does not wash the traditionally large population of Egypt into another ethnic group.
We will never be Arab. I am proud to be Egyptian.
The Arabs(Semitic Whites) invaded the land, driving out the indingent poulations, mostly Blacks, and gave it the Arabic name,Egypt in 5000 B.C.In 1520 B.C. the Arabs annexed part of Nubia(remainder present day Sudan)/people of Kemit/Nubian Blacks.The Nubians made pacts with the Arabs to avoid total annhilation, and to be Pharoahs, thus about one hundred years of Black Pharoahs. In 525-400 B.C.. The PersiansIranians(Indo European Aryan Whites) gained, then lost contol of Egypt from, and, to the Arabs.Egypt has been under Arab contol ever since-proven by anthropological measurements, and most recently, DNA testing(haplogroups)-the Berbers and Mooors Are essentially Arabs with 8-15% Black ancestry.There is admixture of other groups including other Semites(Jews and various Hamitic Semites).Egypt is about 65% Arab Semitic White, 30 % Arab Semitic White/Black(mstly Nubian/Sudanese mix-King Tut and Anwar Sadat are examples of this mix-Anwar Sadat had an Arab Semitic White Egyptian father-Black Sudanese/Nubian mother-didn’t admit this until shortly before his death, and the remainder, other groups.
Aren’t you a bit of a late rider on the “nationalism based on ancient roots” train? Aside from having great amounts of Arab migration and intermarriage, Egypt has been one of the many civilizational crossroads in the area, and so attracted vast numbers of peoples from all over. What of the Turkic (Seljuk, Mamluk and Ottoman), Georgian, Greek, Berber, Ethiopian, Babylonian, Armenian, Palestinian and Persian DNA found in Egyptians? Which ancient group do you choose? Why is your idea any better? It is always a matter of settling, and each as disgusting as your antipathy at being labelled Arab, and in the end, simply identity politics. You do realize that Cairo will show different percentages than Alexandria.
What were your people before they were Egyptians (neglecting data on all other present DNA)? Why are you Egyptian and not a neolithic Nile Valley dweller? Your ideas are simply a minor label shifting within a vast data set and lacking any bit of profound inquiry, complicated by a lack of historical reference, which renders your entire argument as nothing more than a timid examination, whose outcome is but mere vulgar rhetoric.
Here we go again-this seems to be a very popular question.Most are Arab(Semitic White) and has been since 5,000 B.C..When the Arabs conquered and settled the area now known as Egypt(Arabic name given by the Arabs(Semitic Whites)-the area had no name before this The Black leaders of Nubia/Kemet which made up the southern quarter of Egypt(lost to the Arabs) and Sudan, made a pact with the Arabs so as not to be destroyed and permitted to to become Pharoahs, hence some Black Egyptian Dynasties(800-700 B.C.) much like the Indian Police and scouts when the European Whites drove out the Indians in America.This is based on fact and often gets many thumbs down and disagreements by racists,including many Blacks.
The Egyptians are Arabs(Semitic Whites).The pre Egyptians were Black.Nubia/Kemet(making up 1/4 of southern Egypt and the remainder in Sudan) was conquered by the Arabs-the Black Nubians making a pact with the Arabs to be Pharaohs.
The feaures of the Sphinx are White by facial structure-the nose being busted away could have provided more clues-the thin lips, high forehead, and recessed jaw are Caucasian (White) features.
ARABS (SEMITIC WHITES) AND BLACKS ARE TWO DIFFERENT ETHINICITIES.ARABS ARE GENERALLY SWARTHY(olive colored/golden brown skin).
Because people live/or originated in Africa, does not make them Black, but Africans, much like being American does not mean everyone is White.
The builders of the pyamids were Arabs(Semitic Whites-yes like Jesus and other Jews, and, Arabs and Jews ARE related) and as proven by genetic(DNA) tests on the mummies, anthropological measurements, and asking the Egyptians themselves. Egypt is an ARABIC name-no name prior to this, existed for Egypt.Before the Arab invasions and pyramid buildings,pre- Egyptian Black Africans did inhabit the area in ancient(keyword) times(before Arab-Semitic White invasions and settlement).Most were driven out by the Arabs(Semitic Whites),much like the European Whites drove out the American Indians in America -the few remaining, intermingled(mixed unions producing descendants) with the Arabs, some even making pacts to become Pharaohs(i.e.-Nubians/peoples of Kemet), much like European Whites allowing Indian police and scouts.Many of the people on wall art are, in fact, Black Egyptian slaves(also some free) as well as peoples of other ethnic backgrounds( small sampling of the Arabs(Semitic Whites) and other peoples(Blacks and other ethinicities and admixtures):
http://www.reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/port...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient/egy... ,
http://showcase.netins.net/web/ankh/... ,
http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/... ), much like in America, and the difference shows up in the use of different pigments and physical features drawn-many standing side by side.Many drawings, paintings, statues, and other likenesses of King Tut do exhibit both Black and Semitic White physical characteristics, most notably in his facial likeness(even this varies the spectrum from Arab(Semitic White) to Arab(Semitic White)/Black admixture). He is portrayed anywhere from light brown skin to dark black skin.
Because Egypt is in Africa, many Blacks, as above, erroneously claim Egypt as Black , when it has NOT been since at least prior to the pyramid building about 5,000 B.C.-MUCH AS IF THE AMERICAN INDIANS WERE TO CLAIM ALL OF AMERICA IS INDIAN.Egypt’s culture and foods are Arabic, far different than Black culture and food. Many Blacks often point to Anwar Sadat as being Black. In fact,he was half White(Egyptian-Semitic White) and half Black(Sudanese mother)-denied this until shortly before his death).
Present day Egypt is 65% White(Semitic Arab)-comparable to 70% of the White population of the US- and 35% nonwhite(predominately Black admixtures and Black, with the remainder Indian and Asian ethinicity).
To my Black friends and others, bottom line, Egypt(an Arabic name) is Semitic White and has been since the building of the pyramids based both on history and genetic(DNA) testing on the mummies and yes, some of the Pharaohs(i.e.-Nubia-result of pact with Arabs(Semitic White invaders)), were, indeed, Black-MOST were NOT, being Arab(Semitic White)-please, read your history.Before Egypt(the Arab(Semitic White) given name), as it is known today, Blacks did inhabit the area, but it had not been invaded and settled by the Arabs(Semitic Whites) and given the name, Egypt,its Arabic name, again very similar to European Whites invading and settling America.
Incidentally, for those who claim Cleopatra was Black, thousands of busts, drawings, paintings, and other likenesses(i.e.-coins) of her, along with written descriptions of her, from that time period, exist.One look and you can tell she is NOT Black(did not say she was Semitic White/White either,but definitely, not all ,if any, Black either), although she may possibly have some Black ancestry.
The scholars seem to agree: Cleopatra was the last in a line of Ptolemies–Macedonian Greeks(Whites)–who ruled Egypt from the death of Alexander the Great in 305 B.C. until Antony’s defeat in the battle of Actium in 31 B.C. The Ptolemies, as was the custom, were an incestuous, intermarrying peoples (to preserve the royal bloodline),also often having relations with the courtiers and concubines who filled their palaces. Many of the children born of these unions were given a place in the royal lineage despite being illegitimate, the secret unspoken.
Many believe that Cleopatra’s father was the product of such a union–his mother may have been a concubine from Nubia(Black) or Alexandria(White). Lending credence to this theory is the fact that Cleopatra’s bond to the people of Egypt seemed greater than those of her Ptolemic ancestors, who aligned themselves culturally and linguistically with Greece.
Yes, as I acknowledged, BEFORE the pyramids, Arab(Semitic Whites) invasions, and Egypt identity, Blacks did populate the area.Technically, Egypt did not exist, so those Blacks are really not ancient Egyptians any more than the American Indians can be called ancient Americans.Show me any kind of scientific proof that Blacks(not including slave labor),and, NOT, Arabs(Semitic Whites) built the pyramids.
An even better question might be,why do so many Blacks want to claim and insist, Egypt, a majority Arab(Semitic White), Arab culture, food, music, identity, and pyramid building as their own against all factual evidence instead of hearasy? Black Heritage has much Ancient art work an herbal medicines they can rightfully claim as their own rather than trying to claim Arab(Semitic White) Heritage.
From the time of the pyramid building Egypt has retained about 65% Arab(Semetic White) majority, 35% Black/Black admixture,Indian, and Asian ratios.Anything prior to that, was an area populated by Blacks, but not labeled Egypt(an Arabic name) hence, not really Ancient Egypt or Architects of the pyramids.
Arabs(Semitic Whites) and Blacks ARE two different peoples despite many racists(including many Blacks) wanting to claim otherwise-totally different food, cultures, music, physical characteristics(ethnic characteristics)-side by side, the differences are readily apparent.Why many Blacks insist, contrary to evidence, Arabs are Black, I do not understand.Being swarthy alone, does not make it so, any more than Indians, Asians or any other swarthy ethinicity would make it so.
MODERN ETHNIC SAMPLINGS OF ARAB(SEMITIC WHITES) COMPARED TO BLACKS
Arab(Semitic Whites) Americans: Lebanese heritage: Ralph Nader, Jamie Farr(Clinger on Mash), and the late Danny Thomas.
Arab( Semitic White) Americans: Egyptian heritage: Dina Powell, Rami Malek
compared to:
MIXED: half Arab(Semitic White)-Egyptian/half Black(Sudanese): Anwar Sadat
Black Americans: Bill Cosby, Denzel Washington, and Will Smith
Clearly, you can tell the sets of men and one woman, do NOT fit in the same ethnic classification.The late Anwar Sadat, was half Arab (Semitic White)-Egyptian and half Black(Sudanese), many of the same features attributed to King Tut, whom most likely, was also bi-racial.
When Blacks and Egyptians(Semitic Whites) intermarry, Black traits do dominate(i.e.-Anwar Sadat-(Egyptian Semitic White Father-Black Sudanese mother)).
Homo sapiens idaltu, (similar to modern Blacks/N*egroid features) whom had Black features and Cro Magnon(similar to modern Whites/Caucasoid features) whom had White features, lived in Africa about the same time-both forms of Homo sapiens, now extinct-modern humans are a subspecies of Homo sapiens-Homo sapiens sapiens to be exact-so you can not say the first humans were Black or White.Also, the indigenous(originating there) peoples of Maghreb(the term is generally applied to all of Morocco, Algeria, and Tunisia, but in older Arabic usage pertained only to the area of the three countries between the high ranges of the Atlas Mountains and the Mediterranean Sea). are classified as Aboriginal Caucasoid(resembling/
appearing White/Caucasian).
The following link clearly shows the largest portion of genetic material of Egyptians is of Arab (Semitic White) origin, including haplo group types-SCIENCE, not hearsay:
http://muse.jhu.edu/journals/history_in_...
About Egypt: http://en.wikipedia.org/wik
It’s everywhere so what the bible clearly states that the egyptains were black. Now Im not calling egyptians well middle easterners today black but yea the pyrimids were built by negroes. And nobody wants to know that but its been revealed over and over again. You people have to mush pride to except that the oprreseed black race today paved the way for alot of ancient shit. so im done you guys wanna live in this black cloud like blacks did nothing for this earth then fine. Im proud of my fucking race. Our culture is highly and i mean highley immitated around the fucking earth. Our style or slang the best fucking performer of all time was non other than micheal jackson. icons like bob marley jimmy hendrix. we own hip hop rtaher some people thinks its trash or not. We own pop music we started rock and role if you think that the white man started that then you were wrong again. We started blues jazz and we have a shit load of inventions. And most of all we paved the way for all immagrints becasue had it not been us who stood up for our rights who would have started it and got fair treatment within america. We as a race are great. Im proud to be a educated nigger.
Paris, where in the Bible, does it state Egypttians are Black-provide a quote-if you are referring to hair of/resembling wool-if my memory serves me correct-wool is white-there are quotes stating the hair of wool was white in the Bible.Egypt, Ancient and Modern has been a steady 65% Arab-30 % Black(mostly Nubian,some Nilotis), Balck/Arab Semitic White admixture, the remainder of all other ethnic groups-again, the Hamitic THEORY is outdated and proven incorrect by DNA(haploid tests) and anthropological tests-yes-35% of the Egyptian population is Black, mixed, or other ethnicities-The Arabs built 95% of the pyramids, the black Nubians some, and the the Indo European Aryan persians/Iranians some.Again, Egyptians are ARABS.
I am Egyptian, I was born in Egypt and lived most of my life there.
for all those Egyptians that do not want to be called Arabs, then what do you want to be called instead? pharos? then why don’t you dress like them and talk their language? why don’t you worship the Nile or the sun?
I do not deny that our ethnicity is not Arab. I am aware that most of today Egyptians are related to the pharos in terms of ethnicity despite of the Arabic, roman, or Turkish minority. However, this has nothing to do with us not being called Arabs. the ancient Egyptian’s culture has totally been buried, we do not know anything about them, we couldn’t even read their language until 200 years ago when a scientist in the French army (champillion) discovered a stone in Rashid near Alexandria which has some ancient Egyptians writings and their translation into Greek.
on the other hand, we share the language, culture, and history of Arabs. and since when people are called based on only their ethnicity instead of their identity and culture?
in summary i would like to express my opinion as: although we Egyptians are not Arabic by ethnicity, our identity is 100% Arabic, we simply don’t have another identity. so plz stop talking about those pharos and the pyramids they built, cause these people are gone for good and we don’t know anything about them.
Hazem, you said that you are proud to be Egyptian based on ethnicity and you don’t want to be called an arab. well, let me ask you are’nt you proud also of sharing the language of quran? aren’t you proud of sharing the identity of prophet Muhammad PBUH?
I am also proud to be Egyptian but this has nothing to do with ethnicity. Egypt has a long history of defending the arabic world from the days of salah el din and the mongols till the war of 1973. the egyptian soldiers were mentioned in the hadith of prophet Muhammad PBUH as the greatest soldiers in the world, Egypt was mentioned in Quran more than once. THIS IS WHAT I AM PROUD OF, NOT THE ETHNICITIC RELATION TO SOME PEOPLE THAT WE DON’T KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THEM.
-***FROM the linkprovided: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabian_Pen... *** “The geographers, historians, and inhabitants of the ancient Persian, Greek, Roman, and Arab empires viewed the lands of Ancient Arabia located on the Arabian Plate, together with the Sinai subplate, as part of the Arabian peninsula and subcontinent. See for example the Tabula Rogeriana. That anachronistic view continued to be reflected in the writings of many 18th and 19th century explorers and authors.[2] The Arabian plate extends from the Red Sea to the Zagros mountains and from the Gulf of Aden along the Mediterranean Sea coast to the northwestern limit defined by the Taurus Mountains of southern Turkey. During this period, portions of Iran west of the Zagros Mountains, the Levant, and Sinai were all considered part of the larger Arabian peninsula. For example, the region around Eilat Israel, Aqaba Jordan, and Taba, ***Egypt*** was once part of Arabia Petraea.”***
If you are Egyptian, but not Arab(Semitic White), you are either Black(mostly Nubian, some Nilotic,Black/Arab(Semitic White)mix-incidentally, Berbers and Moors are essentially Arabs with 8-15% Black ancestry-30% of the population, or in the remaining 5%(Asians(both Oriental and Non Oriental(India-including some Indo European Aryans-Tamalils),other Semites-Jews, and Indo European Aryans(Turks,Iranians/Persians,Greeks, Italians, Romans, etc.) As for Phoenicians, Egyptians, Assyrians, Chaldeans, Syrians, Berbers, Philistines and many others all now calling themselves Arab except for Phonecians and Chaldeans-the others are Arab by haploid DNA testing-Phonecians and Chaldeans are considered Semitic White- whether Jewish, Arab or another Semitic group has not been determined.I am Arab American by birth, of Lebanese ancestry-we consider ourselves ARAB.The Hamitic THEORY is LONG outdated and proven wrong by DNA(haploid groups)testing and by anthropological measurements.The Hamitic THEORY in itself is flawed for their ethnicity has been reported from the whole spectrum from Black,to White, to mixed, to Semitic White, to Indo European Aryan White. The coptics are christians including all these groups. Bottom line-Egypt, both Modern and Ancient has a stock base of 65% Arab Semitic White based on DNA(haploid testing) and anthropological testing with 35% admixture(mostly Nubian, some Nilotic Black).
There are many errors in your posts. Egyptians have had significant Arab ancestry since ancient times. Phoenicians were Semitic Arabs.
Phoenicians, Babylonians descend from the West Arabian tribe called ‘Amorites’. Assyrians descend from the East Arabians called ‘Akkad’. Syrians today are descend from Assyrians (majority) and others are mixtures of invaders and immigrants.
Infact, DNA Testing has shown that Lebanon is MORE Arabid today than Saudi Arabia.
Stats:
Lebanon is 31% J1 & 30% J2 (total 61% J)
Saudi is 41% J1 & 15% J2 (total 56% J)
So on papers Lebanon is more Arabic than Saudi. This can be explained by the fact that Saudi have huge influx of people as it contains the 2 holy cities of Islam.
Best,
Jack, if you are referring to me(Clyde) there are NO errors. Although the Phonecians and Amorites are Semitic White, what branch they belong to has never been definitively proven-Jews or Arabs top the lists.As I mentioned above, Egypt has been Arab Semitic White since 5000 B.C.. The others are NOT descendants of the Amorites, however, they are Arabs.
I am from Morocco and arabic,al7amdulilah
It doesn’t matter whether you are Arab or not. The sad thing is the fact that you are Egyptian.
The Eqyptians are certainly not Arabs. The proof is as follows:
Noah had 3 sons: Shem, Ham, and Jappeth.
Shem, the father of the S(H)emitic peoples, eventually had Abraham, who had Isaac and Ishmael.
Out of Isaac came Israel, and out of Ishamael came the Arabs.
So both Israel and the Arab peoples are Semitic, being descended from Shem.
The bible tells us Egypt was not settled by those of Shem, but those of Ham: Eqypt is referred to on a number of occasions as “the land of Ham”. And even Canaan (now Israel) was of course full of Canaanites, and Canaan the man was a son of Ham.
So Eygpt and Canaan (the latter taken over by the Israelites who were of Shem), were both Hamitic, not Semitic, and Egypt itself remains so to this day.
Egypt is therefore necessarily NOT Arab, because its people did not descend from Shem/Ishamael, but from Ham.
The language they speak is irrelevant.
And that should be the end of the matter.
Truth is that today anyone who identifies as an “Arab” is an “Arab”. Arab is not a race but a cultural and linguistic identity. The reason that we don’t call Native Americans or Aboriginals Englishmen is because the English had ZERO interest in assimilating the Natives in to their culture. They just took land away from people where as Arabs did assimilate the Egyptians, Berbers, Phoenicia, Phoenicia, Palestinians, etc… into their culture, religion, and language.
If you would rather identify as a “berber” or whatever your “real” ethnicity is then fine.
Both the Ancient and Modern Egyptians ARE ARAB SEMITIC WHITE since 5000 B.C. as shown by DNA testing on the mummies and modern Egyptians.
http://www.geocities.com/enbp/pbs.html
Of course, a few are also the Black Nubians-people-of-Kemet-Sudanese(ruled Egypt from 800-700B.C.).There was/ is signigigant admixture between Ancient and Modern Arab Semitic White and BVlack Nubians. Even fewer are from other ethnicities(Egypt at one tme or another,was ruled by Asiatic, Indo European Aryan Whites-the Iranians/Perians, Greeks, Turks, Romans)for about 1,000 of those years,the remainder by Arab Semitic White. The Hamitic THEORY has been outdated and proven wrong by DNA(haploid) testing:
http://muse.jhu.edu/journals/history_in_africa/v032/32.1keita.pdf
http://naturescorner.wordpress.com/2008/12/13/where-the-ancient-egyptians-black-or-white/
Except for Arabs and Jews, all other Semitic peoples of Canaan have not been definitively defined and are often used interchangeably with Arabs and/or Jews-Canaanites, Amorites, Chaladeans,Hamites, Assyrians,Hhonecians,Babylonians, and many more. The Afro centrists often try to claim Semitic heritage as their own, especially Ancient Egyptians(Arab Semitic White, NOT the Black Nubians) and the Jews. The Ancient Egyptians, themselves, clearly delineated themselves from the Black Nubians in their “Book of the Gates”:
http://naturescorner.wordpress.com/2008/12/13/where-the-ancient-egyptians-black-or-white/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Gates
As for the biblical Abraham, his parents, and his ancestry, all are from Babylon-GUESS WHAT- Babylon is in the Arab Peninsula of which Egypt is also a part of, the origin of the Arab peoples. Abraham may very well have been Arab, possibly Hebree(Hebrew and Jew are not the same, definitely Semitic.)In fact, many experts believe the Bible borrowed from the Egyptian alegories.the Egyptian Ausar/Auset/Heru (Osiris/Isis/Horus) allegory to the Gospel story, are powerful. Both accounts are practically the same, e.g. the supernatural conception, the divine birth, the struggles against the enemy in the wilderness, and the resurrection from the dead to eternal life. The main difference between them, is that the Gospel tale is considered historical and the Ausar/Auset/Heru (Osiris/ Isis/Horus) cycle is an allegory. The spiritual message of the Ausar/Auset/Heru allegory and the Christian revelation is exactly the same:
http://www.egypt-tehuti.org/articles/egypt-bible-similarities.html
The population of Egypt has remained a steady 65% Arab Semitic White, 30 % Black(mostly Nubian(still live among the within Egypt today),some Nilotic), Black/Arab Semitic White mix-the berbers, and Moors are essentially Arabs with 8-15% Blcke heritage, and 5% all other ethnicities(Asiatics, Indo Europaen Aryan Whites(Greeks, Iranians/Persians,Romans, Turks)-many ruled over Egypt at one time or another.
Bottom line-Egyptians ARE ARABS, ethnically and by nationality. Show proof otherwise, especially DNA(haploid) testing, not hearsay, open to interpetation.
Goodness me..
Someone above has said that Abraham may have been an Arab.
The Arabs have Ishamael/Abraham, as their fathers. Not the other way around you silly billy.
You people are making the whole thing too complicated. The fact, is, the Arabs came out of Abraham, and Abraham came out of Shem.
THE ARABS THEMSELVES CONSIDER ABRAHAM THEIR BEGINNING, NOT BEFORE.
Shem was not Ham, and Ham was not Shem, therefore the Egyptians, who came out of Ham, are not from Shem, and therefore have nothing to do with the Arabs with regard to genealogy.
Furthermore, there is no such thing as “semitic white”. The semitic peoples are olive skinned. Jesus did not look like the anglo good-looking guy in the movies, but more like the very average olive-skinned guy running the fish shop down the street.
Someone else has said that “Arab” is not a race, but a cultural linguistic identity.
This is a false dichotomy.
“Arab” is a cultural identity which considers its beginning according to the line of Abraham. So it is primarily a genealogical identity, not a cultural one. The cultural sprang from the genealogy, not the other way around.
You are confusing “Muslim”, with “Arab”.
John D.- Babylon from which Abraham’s ancestry came from, is in the Arab Peninsula.Arabs and the closely related Jews are Semitic-both generally olive colored(golden brown0 skin White and Indo Euuropean Aryans are White(GUESS Whate-the following have the same olive colored skin and are often mistaken for Arabs-Greeks, Southern Italians,Southern Geramans, Turks,Persians/Iranians, Tamils of India(actually avery dark brown). By your reasoning, you probably think they are not White either. DNA(haploid)testing as well as anthropological measurements and points mainly on the skull, place Arabs and Jews under the Caucasian classification.Most experts now believe Arabs predate Abraham,whom was possibly Hebrew(not the same as Jew), but definitely Semitic of which there were many branches. Besides Arabs and Jews, few are left to day and Arab and Jew were often used interchangeably with other Semitic peoples. I am Christian Arab American(by birth)of Lebanese ancestry-hope you learned something today.
Clyde,
Babylon from which Abraham’s ancestry came from, is in the Arab Peninsula
Circular.
Most experts now believe Arabs predate Abraham
All except the Arabs.
You need to read your old testament. Hagar, the concubine of Abraham, was the mother of the Arabs. The Arabs believe this, and this is why there has been war ever since between the Arabs and the Jews, for the Arabs claim Abraham as their father vis Ishmael his son, and the Jews claim Abraham their father via Isaac his son.
I’m sorry, but your cocky attitude will not suffice for argument. The issue is primarily theological, and you who are not born again and who do not understand the scriptures, splashing around in secular puddles, are simply not equipped to deal with the issue. Your highly-touted DNA sampling is also ridiculous.
The Arabs descend from Ishamael, and that is that. And that is why they don’t like the Jews. The ongoing war between them is not accidental, but purely because of their claim to Abraham. The fight is over the age-old issue of just who the rightful heir to Daddy is.
Hope you learned something today. After this, you’ll need to read your New Testament. Start with Galatians Ch 4, V 22-31, where the whole point of Hagar is elucidated. Then join a theology forum.
John D. see the following link- more and more experts are agreeing with the mounting evidence that the Bible was borrowed from Egyptian allegories(predates the Bible by thousands of years)-then still insist the Arabs have been around much longer: http://www.egypt-tehuti.org/articles/egypt-bible-similarities.html
Abraham’s ancestry is in Babylon IN THE ARAB PENINSULA-read your bible and do your footwork.The Bible was interpeted by King James’s authorities, so has some errors-for eaxample, the Aramaic term Elohim is plural for God.Genesis verse 26-”Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”-I do not believe the theologians’s view this represents the triune.Also God does not have a gender attributed to God in Aramaic-agan, that was the workk of King James and his authorities.Most Jews do not accept the New Testament.Now run along, you plenty of research to do.Ignorance must be bliss.
Clyde,
A moot point.
The Arabs themselves consider their beginning as Ishmael. The proof of this is their ongoing enmity with the Jews, who are of Isaac. So your argument is not with me, but with the Arabs.
As for your repeated referral to “experts”, this is an invalid means of argument. It is like trying to pull yourself off the ground by your own bootstraps. You refer to one as an expert by virtue of his knowledge, but refer to one as knowledgeable by virtue of his being an expert. Circular arguments are rife on debate sites because most ‘debaters’ consider their abilities to be a little better than they actually are.
Like saying that Columbus was American because he discovered America.
The existence of Arabs and Arabia today, says nothing to their beginning.
So once again you have problems with logic.
1. “Elohim” is Hebrew, not Aramaic.
2. Irrelevant anyway. The Arabs’ belief that they came from Ishmael, is not dependant on the plurality or otherwise of God’s person.
On the contrary, it constitutes part of the basis for the doctrine of the Trinity.
Almost all versions of the bible relate “he” for God. And none of them copy the KJV, but are independant works. So whether it is a KJV or not, is irrelevant.
What is more to the point, is that you make the common mistake of thinking that because God has no gender, that He cannot be referred to as though He had a gender.
The pronoun “he” is used for God because God first created man and not woman. Woman is an extension of man, not an addition to man: Eve was an extension of Adam, having come from within him.
As it was Adam then who was [i]primarily[i] in the image of God, and not Eve, it is appropriate to refer to God as “he” and inappropriate to refer to him as “she”, for “she” was a helpmeet for “he”, not vice versa.
Moreover, God is referred to as “Father” in scripture, and all fathers are “he”.
Intuitively, we know that it is disrespectful to refer to God as “she”, for otherwise we imply that She proceeded from/is an extension of someone who necessarily preceded ‘Her’.
So the “he” is derived by way of observing the images, and working backward. It does not mean that Christians think that God is male, for Jesus said that God is a spirit, and spirits are neither male nor female, having no physicality.
The issue then is one of protocol, and hasn’t anything to do with corporeality.
Most people do not accept the New Testament. However truth is never decided democratically, so your point is again moot.
Your bliss is showing.
Once again, Noah had 3 sons: Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
Ham began Egypt and Canaan.
The Arabs and the Jews were descended from Shem, therefore the Egyptians cannot possibly be Arabs. And that is why they did not start speaking Arabic until the occupations of their land by foreigners in the 4th century BC.
The Egyptians can be Muslim is they want, but no more Arab than a Japanese man can be a Sudanese black.
John D. your whole diatribe and reasoning is off because you simply refuse to believe Arabs are Semitic White and you refuse to believe Egyptians are Arab Semitic White.I have given the genetic proof link. Now provide some scientific proof yourself. The Hamitic “Theory” has long been outdated and proven wrong by DNA(haploid) Testing Once you accept this FACT everything will fall into place. Hebrew and Aramaic are not the same.Do some footwork of your own-takes but a few minutes on your browser. The language of the Bible is Aramaic, not Hebrew. As I pointed out, the terms in the Bible were inaccurately transcribed.There is NO DNA proof of the people called Hamites. Most of the mummies have been proven to beArab Semitic White, some Black Nubian-Sudanese-people of Kemet(also small amount of Nilotics) /Arab Semitic White mix-the Berbers and Moors being essentially Arabs with 8-15% Black heritage, and a very small amount of Indo European Aryans(Iranian/persians, Greeks, Romans, Turks), and even smaller amounts of Asiatics.The bulk has been Arab Semitic White. The hamites have run the gamut of ethnicities from Black to Black/ Arab Semitic White mix, to Black/Indo European Aryan White mix. Noah and his wife’s ethnicity is not clearly delineated in the Bible, so all we know is what we have from DNA testing and that only that the Ancient and Modern Egyptians were Arab Semitic White. Again, provide some form of scientific proof.Actually,most experts agree that the peoples called Hamites were actually a mix of of the Black(Nubian, some Nilotic) and Arab Semitic White ethnicities, much like the Berbers and Moors.
Clyde,
No. Arabs are semitic, and semitics are olive skinned, not white. Funny about that.
Semitics are not Caucasian.
Rubbish. In order to use DNA, one would have to know what the DNA of Ham was.
And even given that, any supposed DNA testing is frought with assumptions and with the pride that comes with the Age of Aquarius and Microsoft. Similarly, supposed age-testing via Carbon and Uranium dating is frought with error and assumptions.
Your DNA testing is not worth the back door of the lab in which it was carried out. It assumes that morphological similarities in DNA equate to genetic similarities, ala “a frog is closer to a human than a bird”.
Information in DNA is primarily qualitative, not quantitative. Similarly, if I say “I am going home”, this is very close syntactically and morophologically to “I am not going home”, however the meaning is completely reversed by virtue of one word.
Which is why I told you that “Elohim” is not Aramaic (your idea), but Hebrew. The mind boggles at your attempts to turn your errors into victories.
No the language of the Bible is Hebrew. Go and get yourself a concordance. You simply have no idea what you are talking about.
Christ spoke in Aramaic, which was the language of the day in Israel by the time He had arrived, but the scriptures of the OT, with some small Aramaic exceptions, are in Hebrew.
The bible contains the historic record of what occured after the flood, and tells us that Egypt was the land of Ham. Egyptians therefore cannot possibly be S(h)emitic; they are Hamitic. And that is, incidentally, why Egyptians look different than Arabs.
Your attempts to rob Ham of his grandchildren, are about as valid as your DNA ‘tests’. Do you really mean to tell us with a straight face that a text that is thousands of years old just happens to call Egypt “the land of ham” because of some conspiracy? Goodness me man, along with getting a concordance of the OT, get a reality check.
John, the Old testament was in parts Aramaic and Hebrew, the New testament in Greek.
DNA testing does not need Hamitic(most experts now believe to be Black/Arab Semitic White mix) genetic material to prove that most mummies are Arab Semitic White-just that they are Arab Semitic White , which most are.
Arab Semitic Whites have the SAME coloration as the following Indo European Aryan Whites – Iranians/Persians(NOT Arabs), Greeks, Southern Italians, Southern Germans, Turks, Tamils of India(actually real dark brown)- in you blissful ignorance, you probably do not consider them White either, or, if you do then you must consider Arabs of the very same coloration and similiar looks, White to-you can not have it either way.DNA also verifies Arabs as Semitic Whites, not Black or any other ethnicity.Ethnicity is determined by skeletal structure and ponts, primarily the skull.Your ignorance is showing-the truth will set YOU free-Arabs are Semitic Whites and are the Ancient and Modern Egyptians, NOT the Black Nubians-people of Kemet-Sudanese. Egypt annexed part of Nubia(lower southwestern 1/4 of Modern Egypt) in 1520 B.C.. The remainder is modern day Sudan. Their were Black Nubian Pharoahs from 800-700 B.C..North Africa(1/3 of Africa), including Egypt, is Arab Semitic White. Loose your racist attitude and do your research-you haven’t shown any proof of what you espose like I have.
I’m Egyptian, and I consider myself Black, as should all Egyptians. Arab is our culture, Egyptian is our Ethnicity, and Black is our Race.
Black is a political term that has the genetic standards of having indigenous African DNA.
We Are Black, Our DNA is closest to that of Sudanese, Ethiopians, Somalis, Eritreans, and Djiboutians. That’s why we share the same Haplogroups and Subclades as them, and that’s why our appearances often resembles theirs. We are Black people. Even the Father of Egyptology, Cheikh Anta Diop discovered this a long time ago. Egyptians, Sudanese, Ethiopians, Eritreans, and Djiboutians are one Nile Valley Population of Indeginous Africans.
The Egyptians in modern northern Egypt have those same traits, they’ve just been mixed with lots of European, Middle Eastern, and Southern Asian blood, which explains their appearance, but Egyptian are Egyptians, NOT Middle Easterners, and Egyptians ARE Black because they ARE INDEGINOUSLY AFRICAN!!!
Just Deal with it, Black is Beautiful, Have a Coke and Smile.
Masri Up!
nice post! I myself, Egyptian, am sure I’m not Arab. I have turkish/ottoman origins. In fact, the founder of modern Egypt, Muhammad Ali, was Albanian! Now, there may be some (!) Arab blood in Egyptians, but sure not as much as Turkish/Persian/European (whatever that means) and African.
Me, you are probably one of the Black Nubians living among the Arab Semitic Whites.Mostafa Hefny
is an Egyptian(Nationality) Black Nubian(ethnicity) whom immigrated to the US and was reclassified as White because the US classifies Egyptians as White.He sued the government to be classified as a Black:
http://www.africawithin.com/hilliard/what_now.htm
http://www.thumperscorner.com/discus/messages/11222/14610.html
Why should the Egyptians consider themselves Black when the MAJORITY are Arab Semitic White.This would be like them asking you to do what happened to Mostafa Hefny.
The doctor Cheikh Anta Diop” melanin dosage test does not work well on a corpse that has been been embalmed, aged, and exposed to the elements.DNA has proven more accurate and does NOT support the assumption the Ancient Egyptians were Black.
Muhammad Ali Pasha al-Mas’ud ibn Agha was an Albanian whom worked under the OTTOman empirewhich the Arabs overthrew-he was NOT the overall founder of Egypt, just during the part of which he ruled.
John D,
Your comments are very inaccurate. Ishmael is NOT the father of Arabs..LOL, Thats just ridiculous. How can he be the father of Arabs, when the Arabs have been existing since 1000′s of years before him. Ishmael is the father of few Arabian Tribes like Hashemites etc.
The word “Arab” literally means people of the desert, and all Semites (both Jews & Arabs) traces their ancestors to the deserts of Arabian Peninsula. Unfortunately today, because of political stance, the meaning of the word “Arab” has changed.
Here’s a quote about the TRUTH OF Ancient Egypt:
The Proto-Semitic Immigrants from the Arabian plate established villages in the Nile Delta and Fayoum regions of Lower (Northern) Egypt from 5500 to 3100 B.C.E. They introduced animal husbandry and agronomy, the twin foundations of civilization, as evidenced by the wide variety of Asiatic plants and animals raised in their settlements The agricultural tools employed by these villagers and the other technological and cultural attributes they possessed contrasted sharply with the hunter-gatherer culture of the indigenous Stone-Age populations of Egypt of the period.
As F. Wendorf pointed out, this new population of Semitic peoples instituted a cultural foundation in Lower Egypt on which all subsequent Egyptian civilization was based.
Best,
Jack
Clyde,
I wasn’t referring to your post intially, but this article itself. Your posts are accurate on most level and informative.
Its just ridiculous when people claims that Hagar is mother of Arabs.. that just shows the level of ignorance present among people today!
Arabs are an ancient people existing before the Ancient Akkad, Amorites era. The Proto-Semites were Migrants from the Arabian Plates (Yemen & Western part of Present-day Saudi) who settled in various regions of Mesopotemia / Iraq, Levant, Egypt, North Africa. DNA test has also shown that all Semites carry J1 or J2, both of which are from J.
J (Y-DNA) mutation is 30,000 years old originated in Yemen (according to some historians).
Jack, thanks, I agree Arabs have been around longer than the Bible indicates. Actually, most experts now think the Jews”borrowed” from the much older Arab Egyptian allegories(i.e.-one God, even Virgin birth), changing the names to create the Bible- see the following link:
http://www.egypt-tehuti.org/articles/egypt-bible-similarities.html
Great article! i am also EGYPTIAN & NOT ARAB!!! I am proud of being Egyptian, our culture is intertwined with Arab culture, but we are VERY different! Its the same as Turkey, goto Turkey you will feel like your in Egypt..that doesn’t mean Egyptians are Turks (even though at least 25% of our population has Turkish roots) Turks are also not arabs even though the customs are very similar.
Yes my religion is Islam, and i love my religion, thats for those who try to say that saying i’m not Arab means i am not a Muslim (some idiots try to say this)
The original stock base is Arab Semitic White-they, like the Germans(Indo European Aryan Whites) are originators of Germany, are the originators of Egypt. You may be Egyptian, by Nationality, like you can be German by Nationality – that DOES NOT make you Arab Semitic Whitelike it does not make you Indo European White. 65% of Egypt’s population is ARAB, 30 % is Black(Nubian, some Nilotic),Black/Arab mix-Mulattos, Berbers & Moors-essentially Arabs with 8-15% Black heritage,Hamites- 50% Black-50% Arab(i.e- late Anwar Sadat9Arab Semitic White father-Black Sudanese-Kemitian mother), and, 5% all other ethnic groups(Turks-Indo European Aryan Whites fall into this last group). Yes, you can be Egyptian by Nationality rather than by Arab Semitic White ethnically-don’t confuse ethnicity with Nationality.
all the losers who they claim and pretend that they are egyptians and Their race is black are just the Ex-slaves of America and the racists “afrocentric” who they try to hijack our Egyptian identity and our race to steal our Egyptian Hertiage they even Claim my land They are worst than the Zionists,Those rootless Ex-slaves who they came from the coast of west africa in ghana and Nigeria and Feel shame From Their “Slavery” History and want to steal the identity of others keep dreaming losers !!
Every one have a brain he will realize that NORTH africans like Egyptians,Tunisian,algerians ,Morrocans are NOT blacks NOR arabs even There’s no race called Black it just a “political” Term refers to skin colour in U.S.A,the Classification of human races are “Caucasiod,negroid,Mongoliod” we the Egyptians are NOT Negroes you Theives!
We the Egyptian are Mediterraneans caucasoid,plus How on earth you Claim the arabs are white semitic don’t believe all those Fake Videos about arabs on the internet they put pics For Arabized people like the Egyptians and morrocans NOT Real arabs and Claim This is Their Real Faces every one should go to “arabian peninsula” the Homeland of Real arabs who they live in the desert you will find them they are Dark as night..and For the “Semitic” Term it’s just Term in the Bible NOT based on any scientific evidence and doesn’t blong to the classifications of the Human races,only the jewish use it to Cry any one tries to show their Reality by attacking him Call him “Anti-semetic” and the Arabs try to use This Term to act like a “Victims” like Them.
plus the Arabic it’s just a Culture NOT a Human race,we the EGYPTIANS are NOT Arabs and we the Modern EGYPTIANS are the descandants of our ancestors the pharaohs ..so guys get over your selves!
Dina dody, visit this link: http://naturescorner.wordpress.com/2008/12/13/where-the-ancient-egyptians-black-or-white/. Arabs are Arab Semitic White an ETHNICITY as are the Ancient and Modern Egyptians. Afro Centrists attempt to claim the Black Nubians were the Ancient, and, even the Modern Egyptians-NOT TRUE-North Africa is Arab Semitic White, including Egypt. The Hamtic theory has long been disproven-Hamites are widely believed to be a 50%-50% Black/Arab Semitic White mix. The egyptians borrowed heavily from an asvanced Black Nubian tribe, the Ta-Seti, including the hieroglyph system. They were slightly older than the Egyptians. Visit the link and get some incites. You may wish to consider taking an Anthropology course instead of espewing inaccurate statements.
You all are ignorant the Egyptians were a mix of the middle east and african culture when egypt 1st started there were 2 kingdoms the upper mostly nubian the lower mostly middle eastern when the 2 combined by king namer who was a nubian the 2 cultures mixed unifying egypt as far as whites they didnt come into egypt until 1000′s of years after who hated the thick lips and broad nose of the egyptians which explains y most of the noses of the statues are knocked of including the great sphink i say half african half middle east but keep in mind how many times egypt was conquerd and regained independence egyptians today are not the ancient egyptians
Jalil-the fact is the Arab Semitic Whites are the Ancient and modern Egyptians, genetically(DNA) and by anthropological measurements, NOT the Black Nubians-two different ethnicities, and, yes., there was plenty of mixing, both consensual, and, by rape.The Egyptians got their hieroglyphs form the slightly older(100-200 years), ADVANCED Black Nubian tribe Ta-Seti.See the following link for a good explaination: http://naturescorner.wordpress.com/2008/12/13/where-the-ancient-egyptians-black-or-white/
Clyde What are you talikng about i dont care what your stupd website says science is not always right if you think that the egyptians had a percent of white in them until after rome conquerd it you an idiot. Ptolemy started the white line of egypt after alexander the great had conquerd it did you ever even pick up a history book in your life. The egyptians expanded out of modern day sudan egypts first king was king menes (namer) who was a nubian egypt was divided into to states before menes unified egypt into one egypt then came the mixing of the middle eastern and african peoples whites were not known in egypt or in africa period whites were only known as far as the mediteranian the white or european peoples came from the caucus mountains in europe thus giving them the name caucasian. the egyptians were also a dark to lite brown skinned people and since no matter how much sun a european (White) person is in there skin will not get as dark as the ancient egyptians and egypt is in africa not europe or the middle east but africa is connected to the middle east they have been mixing 100′s of years before egypt was manifested but the writing and language of the ancient egyptians was purely african. later adopted by middle eastern peoples egypt today is mostly arabic with a descent amount of blacks because the arabics have control of something that is not theres and to the girl who started this page you are arabic because your ancestors are from the middle east not africa. i hope this will help you understand history a little better clyde. ancient egypt has nothing to do with whites
Jalil, the Egyptians themselves did NOT consider themselves Black, regardless of science.As I said, there was definitely mixing. If you hadn’t noticed, North Africa(1/3 of Africa-including Egypt and Sudan, is in the Middle East and and is classified as Arab Semitic White, so now you the Ancient Egyptians, as well as the Modern Egyptians, saying they are NOT Black, plus anthropological measurements and DNA testing saying they are NOT Black, GEE-the Afro centrists want to call them Black on hearsay-yes, there is evidence of Blacks in Egypt-the Black Nubians-Egyptians, by NATIONALITY, NOT ETHNICITY-i.e.-Blacks can be Germans like they can be Egyptians, but that does NOT make them Ido European Ayan Whites anymore than it makes them Arab Semitic Whites-the Arabs, NOT the Black Nubians are the Ancient and Modern Egyptians-present some PROOF other than hearsay, showing otherwise. Drawings, Murals, and busts show ALL ethnic groups by physical features present in Egypt, NOT just Blacks. Arabs, for the most part have olive(golden brown) skin, dark hair, and, eyes and with sunning can easily get dark brown-Inow- I am an Arab American by birth of Lebanese ancestry.
i agree with you clyde the egyptians do posess mixed features but not white features you are a shame to the race of the lebanese if you think thaT WHITES AND the middle-eastern people share any simalarities they despise the white race white people have been claiming things that isnt theirs since the begining of the crusades when they were the most powerful and did you know king amenhotep III chief wife was queen tiye a nubian and she was also the mother of ahkenaten and grandmother of tutankamun. i am not a afrocentric who think that africa is only blacks but i study history and know what im talkig about and the egyptians also called their land the land of the the black.
Jalil, I don’t know where you get off on about the Lebanese-I am of Lebanese ancestry- and we are Arab Semitic White-until the 1850′s Arabs were considered non White, by most pwople, although not Black,Red, Yellow, or White. Anthropologists did measurements, mainly on the skull and classified Arabs as Semitic Whites (along with other Semites-i.E.- the closely related Jews(by ethnicity, not, religion)–frankly, I would be proud whatever they want to call us. Did you not read my answer as well as the article-queen tiye had yelowish to blonde hair-NOT dyed. Under the microscope, it is Caucasian, NOT Black hair-X-rays of her skeleton reveal Negroid features-she is believed to be a MIX of Black, Oriental, and White. The term Kemet as used by the Egyptians, translates as land of the black soil, NOT its people.-if you studied history-you would know this-hit the books again.
come on clyde it’s like 1 second your right then the next totally wrong the bust of tiye shows only nubian features as far as her mummy goes it’s the same thing you must have her mixed up with nefertiti and why would you accecpt that they want to mix your ancestry in with theirs youre totally different from an european the lebanese are respectively their own culture and race but middle-eastern people are more related to africans than europeans dont you understand that these people have been communicating together 1000′s of years before the europeans got to those regions. and how do you explain the skin color of tiyes bust or have you ever seen it please read this carefully
Jalil, do go back and read the article AGAIN and view the pictures-why do you insist on Semites being closer to Africans-dark skin alone is not enough-you are using hearsay against hard, cold, science-DNA testing-haplomarkers and anthropological measurements-compare Jamie Farr, Arab American of Lebanese ancestry, Kilinger on MASH, to Bill Cosby, African American of Black ancestry, Dr. Huxtable on “The Bill Cosby Show” -surely, you can tell they are not in the same ethnic group. You do NOT have to have Black ancestry to have dark hair, eyes, and skin-variations other than this are recent and due to a genetic mutation occuring about 13,000 years ago.Have you NOT seen different shade of the same person’s busts-King Tut has at least three extreme shades-one is almost white, one of a brown color, and one that is black.Colors in Egypt, are symbolic of many beliefs-the Black King Tut likeness is associated with death. again, explain how Queen Tiye has Caucasian blond hair(real, not a wig). If you read the article and saw king Tut’s likeness, you can tell he is not all Black-actually, three teams backed by National Geographic, came to the conclusion he was Caucasian-I disagree with this-and believe he was mixed-READ THE ARTICLE-also, read the on going discussion-all this has been hashed before.
im done with this conversation fuck the egyptians there dead anyway there are no more pharoahs there dead. who cares i’m black and indian i only care about my heritage not 1 that fell to the europeans and other nations
Jalil, suite yourself, but your anger arise because you were depending on hearsay rather than facts-use every experience to learn, explore, and expand your personal growth-I lve discussion-don’t give up-prove me right, wrong or neutral, but don’t give up-it is the only way we can learn. i have friends of ALL backgrounds, and have dated women across the spectrum-I have not, do not, and will not tolerate predjudice-carry on you inquisitivenes in a positive manner-Black culture has much to be proud of-The Dogon had advanced astronomomical knowledge, the Nok were among the FIRST in iron smelting, pottery, and irrigation and farming, The Black Nubian Ta-Setiwere advanced, and, were older than the Egyptians by100-200 years and gave the Egyptians their hieroglyphs. Here is an interesting link on the acievements of Blacks-maybe it will open your eyes-all cultures have made contributions:
http://www.africaresource.com/rasta/sesostris-the-great-the-egyptian-hercules/african-metallurgy-by-nordine-aka-storm/
I am a straight shooter.I treat everyone fairly. if I am wrong, I am NOT afraid to admit it.Don’T give up-I like honest and open debate.I value your opinion.
I did’nt give up and stop saying i’m using hearsay i am not a freakin afrocentric as i told you my facts are book based but aparently your a lebanese that wants to be white i can care less about black achievements and tut did’nt have a percent of white your confused since you know so much can you even tell me which kings names are not on the kings lists of rameses your happy that the whites threw your ethnic backround out and called you 1 of them. read carefully
What’s the chip on your shoulder for-you want to claim Arab heritage and achievements as that of the Black Nubians against the facts-present your proof- all you said is this and that and this-no link, no experts-that’s what is hearsay-saying a ethnic group is not White because they have brown skin is hearsay-I will go with whatever the experts say we are and right now., Arabs are classified as Semitic versus Indo european Aryan White-for a person whom is not Afro centric, you sure sound like one. Its all in the PROOF-why do you think Arabs are not Semitic White-other than saying because Arabs have dark skin-so do the Southern Indo european aryan Whites-provide some other proof. I am NOT asking your opinion(that’s hearsay).Let’s take YOUR premises that the Ancient, or, even, the Modern Egyptians are Black -that’s hearsay-do some hardproof-DNA sampling, hair clippings examinations, expert links giving facts.Saying the were Black(they weren’t-the Nubians were) is not enough.
What I find interesting in the above comments is who the hell cares? Egyptians, Arabs, the origins, Isaacs, Ishmael we are are stuck in the past trying to do what? explain we are different? or the same? understanding the past serves only to govern the actions in the present that shape the future.
If by understanding the past we create differences and create seeds of prejudice than this discussion proves deconstructive.
How does this discussion help with the Israel/palestinian issue?
How does this discussion help the Egyptians in the high unemployment, overcrowding, political democracy?
How does this discussion help various African countries that are run my dictators and various tribes are repressed and killed?high corruptions, miserable conditions?
How does this discussion help a better understanding between the arabs themselves?
Anthropology is great a field that does little to change conceptions.
Wafak, you probably have never experienced predjudice-I have,especially when ignorant bigots use derrogatory names on you associated with othere ethniities-can not ever get their hatreds strate- everyone likes credit for their work – let’s say you landscape your yard and spent weeks doing it-suddenly a large landscaping company shows your work as THEIRS-most people would be ticked off. That is why it matters.
all you turbin wearing onion smelling middle-easterners need to stop trying to steal culture that is’nt yours you arabs are aliens to egypt not the original inhabitants get it thru your head egypt today has foreign invaders in it you arabs conquerd egypt in 600 A.D afrter the romans lost control how is everybody else in africa black but the egyptians just happen not to be come on now use your geographical knowledge. i once had love 4 the arab nation but now i’m losing respect 4 you guys most of you look down on blacks so i show hatred towards you back if you hate me and my culture i hate you and yours blacks were the leaders in ancient times we had wealth unmatched by any nation and gold that was stolen by whites and arabs. arabs and whites are just alike. i wish to destroy all of you because you do not wish to live in harmony but to have dominion over another race.
Jalil, don’t ever scream bigotry-because you have shown your own bigotry-Arabs ARE Semitic White and have been in Egypt since 5,000 B.C.-yes unfortunately they were indeed invaders-North Africa as much as YOU wish it weren’t, is Arab Semitic White. Arabs have been around much longer than Islam-view the following links:
The terms Qahtani are ancient Pre Islamic(contrary to popular misconception, the Arabs did not start with Isam, but many centuries before) ARABS. The Jews are now thought to be their descendants:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Arabs
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/GENEALOGY-DNA/2005-08/1123986497
The Hebrew word for Arab is “Arvi”.
I have friends and have dated women across the spectrum, including Black women-I have no problems with that.It is your own frustration at lack of proof of your HEARSAY that angers you simply because you know you are incorrect. I don’t see how you link racism to this when the facts are clear.Arab semitic whites are the Ancient and Modern Egyptiens, not, the Black Nubians-yes there was mixing-no doubt about it-that seems to anger you even more. I would be proud of whatever ethnicity the experts want to call Arabs. It is you whom is claiming achievements of Arabs overlooking the achievements of YOUR own people- the advanced African tribes, of Dogan, Nok, and Ta- Seti.
clyde i dont care what you’re sayng your people are barbaric you come from tribes of hyskos and hittites that invaded egypt you’re race is not strong enough to be linked with whites they crushed the arab race during the crusades. i am not overlooking our achievments but will not let you or your muslim people (ARABS) claim the egyptian achieivements islam was introduced by arabs before you’re ancestors came along the religion was the same concept of all africa but different gods and i am not using hearsay. you are of hittite hysko barbaric ancestry clyde i expect you to talk this way and i have arab friends who agree to be more of asian descent more than white or black which i think is true you disgrace whites by claiming their heritage you are a hysko invader of africa not a original inhabitant do you even read what i type because what you respond with is completly off subject and who cares if you date black women maybe it’s cause you cant satisfie your own race of women let alone the black woman
Jalil, you are blinded by your OWN hatred and bigotry-hittite and hysko were not Arabs-they were a mixed group of Semitic Whites peoples along with some Black Nubians. For now, the EXPERTS classify Arabs and other Semites as Whites-if they think otherwise-FINE by me-I love all beautiful women-many Black men go crazy over Arab belly dancers, especially in Morroco.No, you wouldn’t have to twist my arm to go after a beautiful Black or any other ethnic woman.Many Black Africans accepted Islam.Islam started with the Arabs and Mohamed. I am aware Afro centrists attempt to claim, erroneously, Jesus and Mohamed were were Black instead of Semitic White. The problem with Afro Centrists is they believe Africa was only for the Blacks and the origins of all ethnicities was from Black people-the theory is ALL ethnicities were derived from a COMMON ancestor-NOT from Black people.I still favor the old theory- five ethnicities originated in separate places athe same time-one piec of information backs the old theory-Oriental haplomarker M is older than any in Afica-translation-haplomarker M existed first and MIGRATED to Africa- so we are still talking theories in African origins, NOT Black origins.Yes, 5,000 years ago, Arabs invaded the area known as Egypt-I have already acknowledged that-Arab Semitic Whites are the builders of MOST of the pyramids, unfortunately using Black Nubian slaves(some were paid free people) and both Arab and Jewish PAID workers(it is now believed Jews were NOT slaves, but harshly treated paid workers).
IN ALL YOUR HATRED FILLED DIATRIBE-YOU HAVE YET TO PRESENT ANY DNA TESTS, HAIR SAMPLES, OR, ANY OTHER EVIDENCE OF BLACKS BEING THE ANCIENT AND MODERN EGYPTIANS-MANY USE MEASUREMENTS TAKEN IN SOUTHERN(UPPER) EGYPT-trouble is, Egypt annexed part of Nubia-Sudan-Kemit so those samples are Black Nubians. Taking samples from Northern(LOWER) Egypt, you get mostly Arab Semitic White as well as a small amount of the Indo European Aryan Whites(Greeks, Romans,Iranians/Persians(NOT Arabs)), and some Oriental Asians. Drop the bigotry and claims of Arab achievements OR PRESENT PROOF, not hearsay.
clyde im not using hearsay and stop comparing me to the afrocentrics but i do love arab women 2nd to black women the egyptians were black and some arab thats all to it u guys invaded and took over and jesus was not white he was hebrew
Jalil, when you make a statement without proof, THAT is hearsay-PRESENT your PROOF-then what you say will NOT be hearsay. Jesus was JEWISH, not quite the same as Hebrew-he was probably both. As I said before, Arabs, Jews, and other Semites are Caucasian-this is based on skull, skeletal, and DNA testing so going against facts is like saying the world is flat. The Egyptians by the above reasoning are ARAB-do you not know the late President Anwar Sadat had an Arab Semitic White Father and a Black Sudanese mother.AGAIN, WHERE IS YOUR PROOF?Without proof, your statements are hearsay. Afro Centrists are people of any ethnicity whom make claims such as yours, that Egyptians are/were Black based on hearsay(NO PROOF) against the evidence.
Now that I’ve just spent hours reading this whole entire thing, would anyone like to discuss Darfur? How much does history matter if life itself is so meaningless? Is fear of mortality what religion is for? Where is the comfort in that?
Not Me. I Darfur, Sudan, half of Sudan is immigrant Arab Semitic White(Northern half). The Southern half is indigenous Black Sudanese. Sudan actually considered part of Arab Semitic White North Africa. The Black Sudanese feel the Arabs are taking over their country and religion- most are now Muslems.They feel the Arabs want to annex the rest of Sudan to Arab Egypt(Egypt annexed part of Sudan to make up its lower Southwestern 1/4 in 1521 B.C.. There is an ethnic war going on there. There is NO such thing as a Black Arab. People confuse Nationality and ethnicity. There are Black Egyptians like there are Black Germans, but there are NO Black Indo European Aryan Whites, like there are NO Black Arab Semitic Whites.There are ONLY mixes as mentioned above. The News media often perpetuates this misconception by calling the Janjaweed of Sudan, Black Arabs. These are Black Sudanese whom turned against their own Black ethnicity, and, accepted Islam, learned Arabic, and accepted Arabic customs, much as if they accepted Cathlocism, learned German, and accepted Indo European Aryan customs.
Clyde, thank you for responding.
I don’t understand why it’s so common to say black and white when really the “race” terms negroid and caucasoid are meant. These are not opposites, but phenotypes along a spectrum. Therefore, black is NOT an ethnicity, and certainly not a religion.
Not me-you use the term race incorrectly-there is only one race, human, the sub classification, Homo sapiens, sapiens to be exact-the ethnicities – i.e – Negroid(Black) and Caucasoid(White) ARE the proper terms for these ethnicities(NOT races-only one race). These ethnicities have distinct haplomarkers that separate them as well as phenotypes- yes, we are all humans and the similiarities are far greater than any superficial differences. Until approximately 13,000 years ago, everyone had a golden brown skin color, dark hair, and eyes. Differences in coloration was due to a genetic mutation occuring then. It takes approximately 500-1,000 years to change skin colors. Scientists predict within 2,000-4,000 years, we will again be a more or less homogenous society due to interethnic(a term I created to more accurately describe mixing of the subclassifications of humans) mixing.
Clyde, I also don’t like the way the word “race” is used. I was reacting to its use by many people in the comments above. I also don’t understand your own use of the words, black and white. If we are to distinguish people according to the color of their skin, even within ones immediate family, there are differences. How can one say they are of different ethnicities? I was taught about genotypes and phenotypes and I agree that we are all in the human “race.” However, I don’t understand your use of the term “ethnicity.” I might say that a group within a country might share customs over the course of generations, therefore they share an ethnic background, but not all who live there over the course of generations may share those customs. If they are all of one color, they are not sharing “black” ethnicity or white ethnicity. I have to laugh when I hear white racists talk about white “culture.”
I know that colors change over many years, but certain physical features develop after many years in a particular climate. They aren’t simply random genetic mutations.
Well, accepting Islam isn’t the same as being Arab, nor is it the same as rejecting Sudan. I don’t know what you meant by “rejecting black ethnicity,” and I don’t know what conditions prompted them to accept Islam as their religion. I realize that I know less now than I thought I knew before I asked. Lol.
Not me-genotypes by use of haplomarkers, separate peoples into different ethnic groups as follows:
Caucasoid – E (only subclade E1b1b is a Caucasoid marker-all other sublades of E are Negroid haplomarkers), F(Semites), H, I, J(Semites-1 & 2), K, L3(Semites), T, U, V(Semites), W, X, Y
Mongoloid(anthropologists now include American Indians(Red) and Malaysians(Brown) ethnicities in this group – C, D, F, G, O, Q, S- American Indians also have A, B, and X
Negroid – A, B , E(except for subclade E1b1b which is a Caucasoid haplomarker), L1 & L2, M & N-all groups have these, but certain subclades are restricted to Blacks-presence of N in Blacks is not clearly defined and is possibly considered due to genetic backflow rather than present normally
M, N – is present in ALL ethnicities, but certain subclades are restricted to only Blacks
P, R, Z – Caucasoid and Mongoloids only, not Blacks
As populations becomm more and more mixed, phenotypical appearances disappear- the late Michael Jackson is a god example of a synthetic transformation from a Black to a white phenotpical look. Before the 1980′s, he had his true features of his Black heritage, by 1985, he took on a mixed heritage look, by 2000, he pretty much could pass for Caucasian(his skin was even more pale than a Caucasian’s skin. At his death, even if he had his original skin color, he would NOT look Black because of his plastic surgery. When a mixed person’s Black heritage drops below 25%, they can easily pass as Caucasians- i.e.- James Watson, DNA researcher, the late Dinah Shore. Half mixes, you can generally see dominating Black features- i.e.- President Obama, Tyra Banks, Halle Berry, Vanessa Williams, Jasmine Guy, Lisa Bonet, Sabrina LaBeauf.
Clyde,
I think MJ didn’t look “black” @DOA b/c of his nose job, not his skin color! Yes, his “look” did change. I hope that with all the plastic people out there, the recipients of their future kids will still love them. I have my doubts.
I’d still like to understand what’s going on in Darfur. I went to a big protest, and I still have nothing but sentimental outrage as argument points. If only that were sufficient.
Must one choose a side? Based on one’s heritage or…
Not me-MJ had a nose, lip, cheek and eye plastic surgery-the point I was making is, phenotypical appearance outside of skin color, is what gives each ethnicity a different look-surely, you can tell and Asian person from a Black person. MJ lost his Black features through surgery, so even if he had his Black heritage skin color back, he would NOT look Black, possibly Indian(from India).Unfortunately, the Darfur, Sudan thing is a RACIAL war between immigrant Arab Semitic White Sudanese(Nationality) and indigenous Black Sudanese(ethnicity) for land ownership. Sudan is actually considered part of Arab North Africa, even though they have a Black President. Therein, lies the situation. The Black Sudanese want Sudan as their own country, part of South Africa instead of part of Arab Semitic White North Africa. Sudan is half Black Sudanese(southern half) and half Arab Semitic White)northern half-incidentally, the Black President, Omar al-Bashir, has sided with the Arabs, forming the Janjaweed-Black Sudanese, accepting Islam, Arab culture, and Arab customs-often erroneously called Black Arabs by the media-this is akin to saying Black Arab Semitic Whites-no such creature-there are mixes-Mulattos, Berber, Moors, Hamites- the late Anwar Sadat had an Arab Semitic White Egyptian father and a Black Sudanese-Nubian-Kemitian mother. The peoples of the earth should be like America , a blend of different ethnicities, but in reality, most countries want at least a majority population to be one ethnicity.
Clyde, I’m going to do more research into this, but it kind of sounds like you are saying that people of negroid skull shape can’t become Muslim. I don’t know why in this case yet, but it’s happening, and if it’s the truth that just because a person who speaks Arabic is an Arab, then neither are they trying to become Arabs. For whatever (usually cynical) reason they want to abandon their names or culture and form a bond with the others, I have no doubt that for political reasons, the more powerful empire will absorb them. It’s like a monster movie, with creatures of no conscience but to grow, despite the others’ welfare, for resistance is futile.
I started to read this article by Samantha Power. I just read one page so far. What do you think of her or her article about Darfur?
I still don’t understand why we are using the word race (negroid, caucasian, mongoloid) if these separations are not respected anymore by anthropologists. You know, the USA isn’t perfect. The KKK don’t accept Italians. I mean, how can we even have a conversation about these things without terms that are valid. If Egypt is in Africa, why are Egyptians not Africans, if they are not Arabs?
People like to have the choice, even of culture. The smaller nations are not necessarily lucky. In some parts of the U.S. gangs protect one neighborhood from the gang next door. And they feel that they NEED to do this.
Not me- you miss the point entirely-Arab Semitic White and Blacks are two different ethnicitie-Muslim is a religion, NOT ethnicity. Blacks can be Muslim-this DOES NOT make them Arab-like saying being Muslim makes them White-not true. Incidentally, 80 % of the Muslims ARE NOT ARAB. 80% of the ARABS ARE MUSLIM-not the same thing. An Arab has haplomarkers that are Caucasian as well asadditional haplomarkers that make Arabs Semitic. Blacks have NOE of these haplomarkers-your confusion is in mixing religion(Islam), Nationality(country one was born in) and ethnicity(subclassification of race). Blacks can be Muslim by religion, Egyptian by Nationality, but NOT Arab by ethnicity(like saying Blacks are Whites(Semitic-no such creature)-again., take the German example: Blacks can be Catholics by religion, German by Nationality,, but NOT Indo European Aryan White- there is no such creature as an Black Arab-two different ethnicities-there are mixes as I gave in my previous answer. North Africa(1/3 of Africa) is Arab Semitic White. Technically, Arabs can be called White, NOT, Black, Africans. For now, Arabs are classified as Caucasians, much as are Southern Europeans of the same coloration, are. Ethnicity is determined by skeletal(mainly the skull) measurements, and, most recently, DNA(haplomarkers). Can you not tell that Jamie Farr, Arab American of Lebanese ancestry,Klinger on “MASH”, is NOT in the same ethnic group as Bill Coaby, Black American, Huxtable , on “the Bill Cosby Show”. Again, the late Anwar Sadat, Iman, Lila Kebede, Arab(name) on Soul Train, all have Arab Semitic White fathers, andd, Black mothers.Others:
David Williams is Half Black-1/4 Greek(Indo European Aryan White), and 1/4 Arab(Semitic White).
Chili of TLC is 1/4 Arab Semitic White, 1/4 Tamil(from India-very dark brown Indo European Aryan White), 1/4 Black, and 1/4 American Indian-very beautiful.
As for Samantha Power, she to, confuses the Black Sudanese Janjaweed as BLACK ARABS(REPEAT- NO SUCH CREATURE-they are Black Sudanese embracing Arab culture much as if they embraced German culture).She is very outspoken against Israel’s atrocities against the Palestinians. I agree with MOST, not, all, of what she has to say. Hope this clarifys things for you.Yes, the ethnic cleansing of the Black sudanese by the Arab Semitic Whites and the Black Sudanese Janjaweed is a hieneous crime.
Clyde, I understand that Arab and Muslim are two different categories! I am saying that if some group wants to become Muslim AND they are somehow (I don’t know how) influenced by Arabs who are Muslim, if the Arabs do not mind, why should I mind? Who cares if they are so-called Black or White? (And I still think Black and White are incredibly silly terms to be using. These COMMONLY describe shades of color of skin!) I actually also wonder why one ethnicity’s culture would be so powerfully fascinating to another group, but I am not in their shoes, so how can I speak for them? Are there Arabs who dislike this “conversion” because they do not want people with darker skin (so-called Black ethnics) mixing in with them? If so, I am sure there are plenty of Arabs who DO want them. I am not thrilled with thinking about an all-encompassing Arab OR Muslim empire, since I think those with very extreme and punitive views and intentions are involved in the expansion. But to critisize purely on RACIAL terms is very odd, in my opinion.
I do NOT actually agree with S. Power, if she believes that the situation between Palestinians and Israelis is about innocent versus guilty. There are sometimes problems with question of religious sincerity, yet Israel accepted a responsibilty toward Ethiopian Jews, and doesn’t say that because their skin is dark, they are not one of them. It is not because they need the numbers. They do not proselytize. Of course, as occurs EVERYWHERE, there are rivalries between cultures, and sometimes divisions between groups who, aside from culture of origin show differences due to color. This occurs in the U.S. as well, even within families!
By the way, in the U.S., some “African-Americans” because Muslim. It was for power, which they needed, and also in order to rid themselves of names of former slave-owners. Why they chose Arabic names? I guess I don’t know. In the ancient past, they themselves might have been slaves of Muslims, or ARABS! Additionally, some others took African names.
Even between so-called white people in the U.S. there is a term, “redneck,” which refers to people who work out in the sun. In English films, we see women carrying parasols. This stuff should be categorized as mental-illness! It’s an illusion, if we think we can keep “races” separate. As you said before, we were probably originally the same. Or, if not, we will be.
But I still think that the terms Black and White are misleading in an argument.
Are there many ethnic Arabs who are fighting against Negroids accepting their culture? Where? Why? This is my main question right now.
how is there no such thing is a black arab if 1 of your parents is arab and your other black then you are a black arab. And anyway people are classified by skin color these days and i dont believe that the ancient egyptians are semite white they are semite but not white . the color of your skin depends on your geographical area like africa there is a lot of sun thats why there skin is darker than other nationalitys then places like europe where there is long winters and not as much sun as africa and there skin is almost pale whites came from the caucus mountains where there is rarely sun thus given them there white skin color blacks have been mixing with arabs for thousands of years from invasions from hittite and persian rulers even to this day they have control of libya and egypt by military rule egypt is an african country also libya and other north african countries they were takin by invading arabs from the midle east these northern lands were ocupied by blacks before conquers from the midle east came and if they check the blacks backrounds most people classified as just black would probaly have more than just 1 race in them
Ja’lil, Arabs are Semitic White. When a Black person and a White person have children, they are mixed, just like President Obama-older times-they were called Mulattos.President Obama is NOT Black, but MIXED although bothe ethnicities claim he is the other.Blsk/Arab mixes are Berbers, Moors- 8-15% Black heritage, and hamites-50-50% mix, and everything in between. Many Somalies,Ethiopians, and Sudanese, get their more Caucasian looks BEYONF genetic variation from their Arab Semitic White heritage.
Not Me- This whole column is about whom the Egyptians were/ are weren’t/aren’t. Its about one culture claiming another’s acjievemants. The fight in Sudan, unfortunately is about whether Arab Semitic Whites sholud have the country, or, the Black Sudanese.Open yor eyes and see how Israel REALLY treats its Ethiopian Jews:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/524662.stm
http://www.rense.com/general25/rct.htm
Redneck refers to a person who is stereotypically Caucasian and of lower social-economic status in the United States and Canada, particularly referring to those living in rural areas. Originally limited to the Southern United States, and then to Appalachia, the term has become widely used throughout North America.It is derrogatory in use.It does NOT refer to people who work out in the sun.The problem arises with the Janjaweed murdering Black Sudanese and raping and murdering Black Sudanese women. Those whom do not understand whom is commiting these atrocities, are blaming it on the Arabs, not that it should be taken any less serious, but these Black Sudanese are literally getting away with rape and murder by the Arabs taking the blame. Samantha Powers is right on the nose most of the time about the Israelie atrocities on the Palestinians-they fight for their lives and property, Israel fights to take them.
Clyde, of course it refers to working out in the sun. That, in the past, was how people made a living. And it was a sign of wealth for a woman to be pale. Then, like you said, those who were able to be upwardly mobile started working indoors. Now, it’s a term of endearment between those who share that background, and derogatory when used by those who don’t.
Yes, I guess Arabs are being blamed. That’s not fair. I still wonder how this all started. I will try to read the article over the weekend. I never actually heard it put that way, but you seem to know more about it. I did hear that in a way, it’s similar (not the same!) to Yugoslavia, where those of the same ethnic group started fighting with each other. There it was over old wounds. I never made any assumptions about Darfur. I’d rather just say I don’t understand. I certainly respect your opinion, due to the fact that you respond back respectfully to me. That doesn’t mean I will agree with everything you say. But I don’t assume you stand for some “agenda.” I just want to learn more. If people with differences discuss things, maybe then they won’t want to fight.
This even applies within families. I did actually know someone personally whose Grandmother favored her sister for having lighter skin. She was from Puerto Rico. Then, I know someone from Peru whose Mother had nose jobs done to all her teenage girls. This was not vanity on the part of teenage girls. This was internalized “racism.” If they rid themselves of the speck of Indian “blood”displayed by the shape, they could look more like the conquering Spaniards. (They have no Afro-Peruvian in their family, as far as they are concerned.)
I do believe that in the case of Israel there is a higher standard accepted on the Jewish people as far as their behavior goes. As always with a minority, this is an easy way for the world to unite against one cause together. The Palestinians have been betrayed by their own representatives, and robbed blind by them and mislead by those who, when it favors them, defend them, and when it doesn’t, they also turn a blind eye.
Soon I go to Montreal where I know little about the French, about the French Canadian, about the English, British, etc. I’ll keep my one mouth shut and use my two ears to listen. I am not looking for anything in specific. If I were going for research purposes, I’d have to have an open mind. In this case, the mind is nearly empty. I hope I’m not too embarrassed using the French I learned ages ago. I’m just going for vacation.
Not me- I have friends and have dated women across the spectrum, including Black and even Jewish/Israelie. I love all cultures, learning their foods, customs, even some words in their languages. i often surprise people of different ethnic backgrounds by knowing thing about their backgrounds. I have studied many ancient cultures to. As for the Israelie-Palestinian conflict, simply ask yourself whom is invading/occupying whom’s land using brutality and murder-you will have your anser(HINT: it is NOT the Palestinians- they are protecting THEIR lives and land-someone is taking from them-do your own unbiased research-allow me a suggestion-Google Irgun/Likud.).I will never stand for monsters of ANY ethnicity, even my own(proud Christain Arab America, by birth, of Lebanese ancestry). For the record, Israel and the Plaestinians BOTH have a right to exist, but Israel is the one performing the ethnic cleansing-do you see the Palestinians doing to Israel what Israel is doing to them? As far as the Sudan conflict, the Arabs are wrong for killing the Black Sudanese, as are the Black Sudanese Janjaweed for also killing the Black Sudanese, their own people.Yes, I have 4 Black Sudanese friends. All my friends of any background, know I will not tolerate ANY one hurting them, and, woe be it to those whom should try.An open mind is what more need. The blood shed going on in the world today, is irrational, and, is going to drag us into WW III – at best, we maybe have 2-3 years to avoid this-will we-doesn’t appear so.
Clyde,
More reading and less talking would be great for you.
- The OT is in Hebrew. Just some parts of the book of Daniel and other minor things are in Aramaic.
- Jews never “borrowed” anything about “virgin birth”. This is a christian ideia and they are against it.
-3arabe in Hebrew is 3aravi.
If your DNA information is as reliable as you Bible “experts”…
“but Israel is the one performing the ethnic cleansing-do you see the Palestinians doing to Israel what Israel is doing to them”
Clyde,
Do you even know what “ethnic cleansing” means?
When talking about the Israeli/palestinian conflict I like to think it as a war (seems more accurate and honest to me), but you can call it whatever you want – even a massacre (even tho I think this is more appropriate when referring to what the Lebanese Christians did in Sabra/Shatilla or to the Black September in Jordan), but… “ethnic cleansing”? Hardly.
Last time I checked there were palestinians/jordanians (or “Arabs”) in Israel. In fact they are almost 20% of the population – and growing.
But… Where are all the Jews that lived in the ‘palestinian’ territories? How many are still there?
And don’t forget that the Jews’ history in places like Judea and Samaria traces back long before the VII century…
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So the Jews “borrowed” the ideia of a “virgin birth”, The Bible is in Aramaic and the number of palestinians in Israel and in the palestinian territories grow during an “ethnic cleansing”? Ok…
Your ethnicity is what you say it is. You shouldn’t care what other people name you. The only reason why people raise eyebrows when an African Gabonian person refers to themselves as French is because they are very different in appereance from the French. In terms of French being their only mother tongue and having French names they are as French as the Parisians. The only reason why people don’t frown when an Egyptain or a Lebanese says I’m Arab is because Arabs are less different in appereance than Gabonians are from Parisians. I would say nationality is based on what your MOTHER TONGUE is. If it’s Arabic you are Arab, if it’s French you are French even if you are from Cote d’Ivorie and if it’s English you are English even if you are from Kenya.
JD – ethnic cleansing – killing the indigenous people, stealing their homes, and building ILLEGAL JEWISH ONLY settlements- guess that constitutes ethnic cleansing.
NO ONE CAN DENY THE FOLLOWING FACTS UNLESS THEY ARE MENTALLY CHALLANGED:
Pre 1948 ARAB Palestine(population 93% Arab, less than 5% MIDDLE EASTERN,NO EUROPEAN JEWS- After 1948 Israel-70% (50% European Jews, 20 % Middle Eastern Jews),30% Arabs. The West Bank and Gaza strips- 70% Arabs (AND SHRINKING FOM ISRAELIE ILLEGAL SETTLEMENTS AND ETHNIC CLEANSING), 30% Jews.
Actually, it started in Biblical times when Isaac stole Ishmael’s inheritance.In modern times it started in 1922(Arab armies-no Jews participated(outside of Arab Palestine, Jews fought with the Ottomans)-threw off the Ottoman Empire Occupiers(few Turks owned land in Arab Palestine)-the UN then assigned Britain as an occupier when the ILLEGAL Foreign European Jewish immigrants swelled Arab Palestine’s(93% Arab) from less than 5% Middle Eastern Jews to 35%(mostly European Jews). These Jews became belligerent, demanding a chunk of Arab Palestine for a homeland from the British UN assigned occupiers. The British attempted to set up POLITICAL, NOT, land borders for Jews and Arabs-this is the British Mandate. The Jews were not satisfied and formed murderous Jewish terrorist groups, labeled as such by the British-Likud(oops, IRGUN before being elected), the Stern Gang, Lehi, Levi, Haganah, and many others and started slaughtering their Arab hosts and stealing THEIR land to ILLEGALLY form Israel(UN ratified a day AFTER the fact) in 1948. The Israelies continue stealing Arab land through murder up to the present.They must stop laying the blame on God and the British.
You want REAL terrorists- makes the Nazis look like pansies- type Irgun in your Google browser – they are a murderous Jewish group one of many labeled as such by the British. Irgun was OFFICIALLY labeled murderous Jewish terrorist group by the British.No one associates Jews with being terrorists- the Irgun were worse than ANY Arab terrorist group- Irgun used grenades and car bombs to kill Arabs, foreign dignitaries, EVEN Jews opposing their methods, they sniped innocent unarmed Arabs in the back, dropped Arab men women, children, and, babies off building roof tops, bull dozed houses using tanks with Arab families being buried alive, doused Arabs in kerosene and burned them alive, poisoned water sources,crushed Arab women’s belly’s by stomping on them or standing on enough men on them until they were killed,gang- raped Arab women and young girls 13 and under, then shooting them as they screamed in terror, in non vital areas, finally, a fatal bullet to the head where the infamous IDF term”Confirming the kill” arouse.THEY WERE SO BRUTAL AND MURDEROUS, ANOTHER SUCH GROUP,HAGANAH, ATTEMPTED UNSUCCESSFULLY, TO REIN THEM IN.
GEE- Bottomline- the Jews slaughtered the Arabs and stole their land.
Biblically, Ishmael(Arabs) was born 23 years BEFORE Isaac(Jews).Technically Abraham was not Jewish-his ancestry is from Babylon inside the Arabian, not, Jewish, Peninsula/ Canaan/ God’s promised land. He was Semitic, possibly Hebrew(Jewish and Hebrew are not the same-although laypersons consider them the same), he was not Jewish-may well have been Arab.
The J1 (the Arab) haplomarker has been in the region for 40,000 years-Jews are now thought to be descendants of Arabs. Both Jews and Arabs share J1 and J2(considered the Jewish haplomarker), Arabs having more of J1, the older haplomarker), Jews having more of the J2(younger haplomarker).
In all honesty, Canaan wa a mix of Semitic peoples, of which Arabs were and are the largest group, and, are considered the FIRST ones there.Of all the Semitic peoples there, Arabs and Jews are the few remaining ones.
The terms Qahtani are ancient Pre Islamic(contrary to popular misconception, the Arabs did not start with Isam, but many centuries before) ARABS. The Jews are now thought to be their descendants:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Arabs
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/GENEALOGY-DNA/2005-08/1123986497
The Hebrew word for Arab is “Arvi”.
The Arabs/Palestinians fought with the Romans to get back Jerusalem that was stolen from them by the Jebusites, whom the Jews stole from the Jebusites.
Before the Jews invaded Jerusalem, the Arabs(West Semitic peoples) had settled Jerusalem- archaeologists, including Kathleen Kenyon, believe Jerusalem as a city was founded by West Semitic people with organized settlements from around 2600 BCE. : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem
According to the Hebrew Bible, the Jebusites were a Canaanite tribe who inhabited and built Jerusalem prior to its conquest by King David in 1004 BCE.
Arab auxiliary troops joined the Roman legions besieging Jerusalem in the year 70.
The Roman historian Tacitus writes in his book, The Histories (Kenneth Wellesley, translator, Penguin Books):
The Histories, Book V:1
… Titus Caesar, who had been selected by his father, to complete the conquest of Judaea and already enjoyed the reputation of a general… received added support…
Awaiting him in Judaea were three Roman legions… the Fifth, Tenth, and Fifteenth…
Then there were strong levies of Arabs, who felt for the Jews the hatred common between neighbors…
… et solito inter accolas odio infensa Iudaeis Arabum manus…
The terms Qahtani are ancient Pre Islamic(contrary to popular misconception, the Arabs did not start with Isam, but many centuries before) ARABS. The Jews are now thought to be their descendants:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Arabs
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/GENEALOGY-DNA/2005-08/1123986497
Bottom line, they were not called Arabs at that time. Later, the Palestinians were called Ishmaelites/Canaanites, but were still present before the Jews. Biblically, Ishmael(Arabs) was born before Isaac(Jews), scientifically, the J1 marker known as the Arab haplomarker, was in the region for 40,000 years,
Biblically(Ishmael(Arab) born 23 YEARS BEFORE Isaac(Jew)) and scientifically(J1 haplomarker(Arabs) indicates Arabs were in the Arabian Peninsula(Israel is a part of) 40,000 years ago-literally millenia before the Jews), the Arabs were there first and are THE MAJORITY, both in true Palestine(Israel, West Bank, and Gaza strips)-that is why the region is called the ARABIAN, NOT, JEWISH, PENNINSULA.
The Arabs of Canaan are the Arabs of Palestine. They were there AT LEAST EQUALLY as long as the Jews/Israelis, but they had a constant presence and a defined land. The Jews were nomadic and had NO land until what was taken from the Palestinians in 1948.
I wonder how many do not know, the Arabs owned almost all of Canaan, including Arab Palestine. They were not called Arabs at the time, but Ishmalites/Canaanites/Arvi(Hebrew term for Arab).Yes and so very TRUE. God’s promised land was only one of residency, NOT, ownership as was the British Mandate(political, NOT, land borders-read closely-Arab Palestine to remain ONE country). The Arabs were always FIRST and MAJORITY owners of the ARABIAN, NOT, JEWISH Peninsula(Israel a part of)/Canaan/God’s promised land. Except for non Arab Iran, and,until 1948, Israel., ARAB owned it. Israel would have to kill ALL the Arabs and non Arab Iranians(Israel working on that one) and steal all their land to get it.NO WHERE in the Bible/Torah, nor, the British Mandate does it state Israel is to kill the Arabs and steal their land-NO WHERE
One simple answer here-the West Bank and Gaza strips BELONG to the Palestinians-Israel stole their land by STARTING(loves to call the 1967 Six Day War a PREEMPTIVE strike) a war by attacking Egypt and stealing the land by killing the Arab owners(call them whatever you like-they were NOT Jewsih-that is fact-whether you want to call them Jordanians, Syrians, Egyptians, or Palestinians,they are ARAB)
REALITY CHECK:
http://lawrenceofcyberia.blogs.com/photos/maps/landloss.jpg
The truth is that Jews (not Israel) bought about 7% of the land before 1948. Most of the rest was owned by Palestinians as documented by the British Mandate.The remaining land was STOLEN from the Palestinians AS DOCUMENTED BY THE BRITISH:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Man...
According to Alexander Scholch, GERMAN JEW AND PROFESSIONAL HISTORIAN, the population of Palestine in 1850 had about 350,000 inhabitants, 30% of whom lived in 13 towns; roughly 85% were Muslims(Arabs), 11% were Christians and 4% Jews.Scholch, 1985, p. 503.
Palestinian Demographics Link up to 1948
http://www.mideastweb.org/palpop.htm
the Arabian Peninsula/Ancient Canaan/God’s promised land, of which Israel is a part of, and, of which the Arabs own almost all of it except for non Arab Iran and, until 1948, Israel.
Stats of Palestine FROM A JEWISH SOURCE
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Society_&_Culture/israel_palestine_pop.html
The Jews stole Arab land through brutality and murder.
PUSH FOR THE TWO STATE WITH JERUSALEM SHARED OR PAY FOR IT WTH WW III. PEACE, SALAM,SHALOM.
A guy who can reason, congratulations! Egyptians are muslims with an arabic language does not make them the Arab race .
They are not Arabic by ethnicity but they are Muslims and speak Arabic.
McLiinkin:
Egyptians have the Arab haplomarkers F, J1, L3, and V making them ARAB SEMITIC WHITE, both Ancient and Modern, NOT Nubian Black- Afro Centrists often claim.
You confuse Nationality with ethncicity. Blacks can be Muslim, speak Arabic, and be Egyptian by Nationality – ethnicity is still Black,NOT, Arab Semitic White much like they can be Catholic, speak German, and be German by Nationality – ethnicity is still Black, NOT Indo European Aryan White.
Egypt is in AFRICA, bordering SUDAN as has been mentioned and as is fact. Ancient Egyptians – before Arab & European invasion – were African in every sense of the word, i.e. “nubian”. Why would every other country in Africa be inhabited by Nubians, including Sudan, and then suddenly there is a country inhabited by WHITE people? What a joke – Clyde please leave your RASCIST views out of this forum. I am sick of Europeans claiming eveything for themselves, when in fact little of the glories achieved by Early Man can be attributed to them.
And no you don’t fool me with your classical “one of my friends is black” bullcrap.
Everyone knows that the original Jews were Semites, unlike most Jewish people today who have mixed with Europeans – i.e. Jesus was not WHITE – a word we now associate with “caucasian” (FULL-STOP). So stop using WHITE with ARAB-SEMETIC. It is manipulative how European media insist on the European nature of Egyptians.. See how Clyde states that all egyptians both past and present were “ARAB SEMETIC WHITE”. Why not just come out and say what you really want to Clyde? You imagine an African Egyptian past with white people!
And since when has ethnicity been a colour? What is “black”? I am not “black”! Because you labelled me a colour from your pallette in order to signify how you feel that I am inferior? I am not “black” I am African! Which can be several things – originally, one of which is not Arabic. Egyptians are African, of all of the continents on teh Earth people from the same continent have a avriety of similarities. And yet the Egyptians of Africa were White?
I am not stupid or blind – due to centuries of mixing there is clearly a difference in the ethnicity of modern day and “ancient”, i.e. pre-invasion Egyptians.
I have a question for you guys, please state your ethnicity (honestly) as this may have some bearing on your answer:
1. What ethnicity were the Egyptians before Arabs invaded around 700 AD?
To all you people who think this matter is not important and only exacerbates divisions amongst humans you are wrong. It is the denial of one’s culture – the attributation of one’s achievements to a race who enslaved one’s pepole, raped one’s culture and tarnished one’s memory that divides the human race. If the ethnicity of the ancient Egyptians was such an unimportant issue then why have White people been keen to take Egypt of Africa for centuries?
Please don’t be so convinced by Clyde’s “Science”, “Science” is not always truth
yea clyde is an idiot to think that the ancient egyptians didnt com from lower africa and were black africans the mixing started after middle-eastern tribes like the hyksos. and the syrians started 2 invade egypt the empire was ruled by hyksos until tutmoses i chased them out. then came invasions from rome and greece around 600 A.d the arabs had completed their conquest of egypt driving the remainder of the ancient population bac south of africa the arabs have full control of northern africa countrys like libya and angola arabs are not original inhabitants of any part of africa.
Jalil:
The Nubians are NOT the Ancient and Modern Egyptians – the Arab Semitic Whites were – you are correct, as I I ave mentioned, the Arabs did indeed invade, and, take over what is now Egypt – The Arabs enslaved the Nubians and used them to build the Pyramids.The Hyskos were a group of peoples including Arabs, Jews , and Black Nubians – NOT even in the picture.Angola is a Black Country in Sub Sahara Africa very small Aerab population there.
Ancient Egyptians saw themselves as different from the Black Nubians- The late Anwar Sadat, models Iman, and, Lila Kebede, and Arab(Name on Soul train) all had Arab Semitic White fathers- Black mothers.
Present PROOF of what you say as I have in my above answers.
Egyptians are the descendants of the ancient Egyptians. This is an undebatable truth. Egypt is invaded by so many nations not just Arabs. But, why did not you call Egypt a Roman or a Greek country? Just a question. Whenever Egypt has been invaded by the Romans, the Egyptian language has changed their symbols of hieroglyphics by using the Roman instead to invent the Coptic language. Even the word Kemet has been changed to Aegyptus. Consequently, you can apply that to Arabic language of today’s Egypt. There are so many words which have been remained from hieroglyphics in Masri Dialect. Additionally, the Egyptian culture affects the Arabic literature. Maybe, the Arabic language have benefited Egypt as well but let us admit to the fact that most of the recent Arabic poems, plays, novels and even songs are labelled as ‘Egyptian’ by all Arabs. Oh, for those Saudi girls who think that Egypt is part of their Arab heritage. First, with all the respect to the Arabs and their culture, Egypt was and still is a liberal state. Second, there is a group called Wahabi which regards the Muslims in Egypt as infidels. Thus, Egypt is considered as an enemy for KSA. I know that you hate Egyptians just because of Ibrahim Pasha who went to Arabia to prosecute the war against the Al-Sauds. Actually, instead of talking about the Egyptian failures and such crap, why do not you talk about the Arabs brothers, Israel. Can you just justify wanting Egypt to be a brother of Saudi Arabia and you do not want your brothers, Israelites, to be Arabs as you both are descendants from the same roots.
The middle-eastern peoples are driving all of black africa south and they are taking over the north african countrys and adding them 2 the middle-east…….how alarming but true arabs have no part or claim 2 african soil
Proud to be egyptian! Lolz we are not arab, just egyptians, germans are germans, french are french we are egyptians, but if people want to get techincal we are somali etc. because the ancient egyptians said themselves that the source of their race culture etc. was the land of punt, and the land of punt was somalia. We’re the same blood but are cultures became a little different we became egyptian they became somali etc. But we are egyptian plain and simple, we started civilizations etc. I fi wasn’t egyptian, i’d want to be one!
Egypt will never be an Arabic state. I am a Coptic (Egyptian) Muslim and I strongly believe that Egypt has nothing to do with the Arabic culture nowadays. Also, you have to bare in mind that if any Arab emulates the Egyptians, not because Egyptians are Arabs but because the Egyptian Cinema has a great impact in the Middle East. Additionally, you guys must confess that all Egyptians are Copts whether they are Muslims, Christians, Jews, Bahai’s or even atheists. Do not threw the baby out with the bath water, the word Copt is the transformation of the word Kemet which means Egypt that has been formed from the word Gypt.
Meritt Kemet – Coptic is a RELIGION made up of many ethnic backgrounds- MOSTLY ARABS and Black Nubians.
I just one to say something. Egyptian culture today did not adopt any thing of arab culture. Again, no thing by all what it means. Arab are desert people living in desert, egyptian are farmer living around the nile river.
if the country is more than 60% blood related to the arabs then it IS an arab country.
my country for example Peru was colonized by the spanish but unlike the USA, the spanish had offspring with the native women. as a result around 60% of the country is at least part spanish. our culture is 90% spanish. it’s just small things that set us apart nowadays, and i can apply the same analogy to relationships among various countries as well
there’s an Egyptian village (I dont want to tell which one) near which the French Napoleon army settled and rapped most of the Egyptian women there… afterward, most of the children are French blond ones, and accordingly the whole village now is comparatively french…. are they french?
The Spanish people are very much arabs in their faces, that the arabblood got mixed into theirs and married or raped their women, are they arabs?
You are silly, the whole world is one big village now and you are (or your stupid father) still stuck to the old mentality when the Pharaohs were enslaving the Africans !! Do you want to be enslaved by the new pharaoahs? stop being backward and look ahead to the nano-electronic age !!!
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ana masry bas . ana masry welaya 7darty . ana masry leh be2olo 3alya araby ? south america bettkalem aspany mesh ma3na keda in homa aspan . ana mesh 3lashan batklem arabi mesh ma3na keda iny a3arby . ana bardo bakalem almany . ma3na keda iny almany .hhhhh . nan masry bas and not arab
Ayman… you are vacant inside, have nothing in your mind to give… you write broken arabic with broken english in broken mentality !!
I speak fluently and translate four languages, but still proud to be Arab, you cant change the fact that the vast majority of the Egyptians are proud to be Arab, specially after their great revolution !!
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I spend hours to read this and I conclude that blogs, foruns whatever, It’s the worst place to learn history. People keep their “isms”, I mean afro-centrism, eurocentrism, berberism, arabism, etc. All of them are racist and dangerous. How can you just be impartial if you don’t keep them away. Many people here used de word “race” and I just know one (Human Race); also there are a big confusion between ethnicity, identity and nationality. I think there is no present even future for you because you live in the past!! I’m sorry but you mentality wasn’t decolonised after colonial time. Why you don’t start to talk the ancient egyptian language? or live like them? or adopted their religion? the comparation between arab expansion and American History is an absurd! How do you want to compare a place that It was called “The New World” where new societies were emerged by roots under a slave and slave trade?!!! Come on
And yes, semitic people are caucasian even they are olive skin, yellow, brown, etc.
Sami, the beduin where did your get that the spanish look like arabs? maybe in your head! Any spanish women was rape by arabs habibi, because al-Andalus was a tolerante place and the those supposed arabs there were no more then arabized iberians.