Extremism & True Islam
In my last blog a question asked “how do you think they managed [your government] to stay up to now, it’s part of history.” Its our (Muslim) bad luck that most of our rulers used and abused Islam to give strengthen & protection their rule. In the end of 1700 century “Muhammad bin Saud” (founder of the First Saudi State.) made a deal with “Muhammad ibn Abd-al-Wahhab” that ibn Abd-al-Wahhab will support & justify the rule of ibn Saud as legal Islamic Govt. and in return ibn Saud will accept “Wahabism”as kingdom official religion. Also provide support & protection to ibn Abd-al-Wahhab in spreading Wahabism. And still now in Saudi Arabia Saud family is ruling that’s why the Govt. have to support the “Wahabism” and its subsidiaries like religious police. Theses extremist people have very strong hold & control on Govt. and people. As Rasha said though most of the educated Saudi people don’t like them but bcoz of their influence they can’t resist.
Personally I don’t believe in any sectarianism in Islam even not in any Shia and Sunni division. (My intension is not to insult any sect (mazhab) including Wahabism. I am writing what I read in history and as per my personal observation). But the if you go in the history of Wahabism you will find that where they gained control on any area they torture and killed the people of other sects and places of worship, like in Madina Munawara, Taif and Karbala also in 1800 century. Rigidness and harshness is the style & habit of Wahabism. Even there is Fatawa that killing of others sect’s people, even though they are muslims, occupying & destroying their lands is justified. I am 100% sure if I wrote this thing before terrorist activities & bombing in Saudi Arabia very few will agree with me and people say that may be I am Shia or jew. Saudi Govt. nurtured these people with money and unlimited power & authority in Kingdom until the 9/11. After 9/11 as Govt. tries to limit them theses extremist turned against the Govt, bcoz they are already brain-washed and raised with the ideology that kill anyone who is against you. And we saw bomb blasting & killing of innocent people with the hand of its own people. Now the Govt. eyes open that they are trapped in their own snare, so they started arresting & killing these extremist people. These extremist people give birth to Talibanization who give lot of insult to Islam by caging women’s in homes, destroying Women’s schools, hitting women’s for not veiling (like Iran), beating people for not having beard & having short trousers, killing other sects people (shia’s in Mazar Sherif). They comitted all these crimes on the name of so-called Islam, and infact Islam never order you to kill any muslim on these basis, Islam order for the eduaction of Women’s. Even before the Taliban, these extremist people of Wahibism and Shai’s already fought a bloody “Sectarian war” in Pakistan. They both used the Pakistani agents of their sides and blasted each other mosques and killed many innocent people. After Pakistani Govt. requested the Irani & Saudi govt. for stopping their respective groups from funding this proxy war in the land of Pakistan & its people.
Now if you go to the teachings of Islam you will never find any single example of extremism. Islam doesn’t allow anyone to judge others faith, infact it’s the authority & right of Allah Karim. Even in one War, when non-muslim (kafir) saw he is now being killed by a Muslim he recite “shahada” (embrace Islam) but that Muslim soldier killed him with the idea that he recited “shahada” to save his life. As this incident reported to prophet Mohammad (ASW), he said it’s a murder and angry on that Muslim soldier. That muslin soldier argued that he recited “shahada” to save his life but prophet Mohammad (ASW) said a historical sentence that “did you split his heart to see that he recited “shahada” to save his life?” This is the Islam and now days we are killing each other’s as aunts on the name of Islam.
We intellectuals & educated people blame “religious clerks” (Sheikhs) for all the bad things in Islam. But people are more responsible for not knowing “True Islam”. I think till graduation & masters we read more than 200 syllabus books but we never ever bother to read Quran & Seerat Rasool (ASW). We put the responsibility of most important thing of life on these religious Clerks (Sheikhs) ?. These Clerks (Sheikhs) never stopped us from reading Quran & Seerat Rasool (ASW), until and unless we our self not read & research the Islam we will be puppet in the hands of these extremist.
Teachings of Islam are universal & ever lasting, and still practical able in 21st century. The only problem is that we have made issues of those things which have no link & relation of Islam. As I said in my last blog we have to thoroughly read Quran & Sunnah (including Seerat Rasool (ASW) to find the True Islam. And I swear that Islam is most the open, easy, peaceful, flexible religion of the world.
And I am proud of being a Muslim…..
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Ali,
I am sure that was enlightening for many..
Do you think things will change any time soon?
I think we take one step forward then follow it with a few steps backwards!
[…] By Ali (Saudi Arabia) Monday May 28, 2007 In my last blog a question asked ‘how do you think thay managed [your government] to stay up to now’, it’s part of history. Its our (muslim) bad luck that most of our rulers used and abused Islam to give strengthen & protection their rule. In the end of 1700 century ‘Muhammad bin Saud’ (founder of the First Saudi State.) made a deal with ‘Muhammad ibn Abd-al-Wahhab’ that ibn Abd-al-Wahhab will support & justify the rule of ibn Saud as legal Islamic Govt. and in return ibn Saud will accept ‘Wahabism’ as kingdom official religion. Also provide support & protection to ibn Abd-al-Wahhab in spreading Wahabism. And still now in Saudi Arabia Saud family is ruling that’s why the Govt. have to support the ‘Wahabism’ and its subsidiaries like religious police. Theses extremist people have very strong hold & control on Govt. and people. As Rasha said though most of the educated Saudi peple don’t like them but bcoz of their influence they can’t resist. For the compete article: http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/05/28/extremism-true-islam/ […]
Congratulation Ali from Saudi.
I disagree with you. Al-Kuran, authored by God(?) is littered with
hatred, violence and intolerance to the kafirs. munafek, mushrikin
and apostate(who question and reject faith). Kill, kill, fight, fight,
hate, hate is the integral part of Kuranic faith. Yes I do agree threre are many good teaching in Kuran. Your brain is grilled with
faith and love with Islam that’s why you cannot see or deliberately ignore the dark side of your religeon. All the ancient
religeon is a mixed baggage of good and bad teachings. It needs courage and and rational mind to see it. Why Abdel karim is languishing in Egyptian Jail? He has the mind to see it.
Because he said not so nice thing about the lord of Egypt, Mubarak. It wasn’t for his comment regarding Islam that got him that prison sentence. On that other hand, explain to me why Abdel Monem is in jail then?
The laughable thing about people who make this argument… is that the same people who say that Islam is violent, are actually violently hateful towards Muslims! Oh the irony. Islam is in favor of common sense, I urge you all to use it. Killing someone for no apparent reason isn’t justified in the Koran and terrorists hardly represent the text purely. Their arguments and justifications are distorted beyond belief. It’s an excuse; not a valid reason. And sadly, people blindly fall for it, and start blaming anything BUT the criminals in question. Blaming Islam only feeds such hatred. You aren’t doing anyone (least of all, truth) a favor by trying to insist that we are all murderers by default. Try to see the difference between now and then, how much we developed and evolved, and use common sense to apply Koranic text accordingly.
If Islam was perished from this planet, the same violence will occur, because everything is mostly happening in the name of cheap politics, not in the name of Islam or any other religion. What you see here is a fight towards political and social dominance… by way of political Islam. And imprisoning Kareem? Also a political decision.
In response to Halim
I agree with Him quran has many kill Kill BUT If you look at the context and read the History of that time you would see that it was meant for that time and Killings were happening both fronts “jahilia”. it is well known that Islam was brought to the Most ferocious, hot blooded people who were Ignorant. So please understand that alot of the ayyat were sent for things at that specific time. Sadly we dont have many mufti’s and historians that think or interept things as they should and people would use religion to justify their own bullshit.
Hello wafa
You said,
So please understand that alot of the ayyat were sent for things at that specific time.
I see you understand Kuran is time bound, all the verses is not
eternal and infallible. So what is the problem to specify those
violent verses and declare ‘outdated’, not applicable to our time.
You said,
So please understand that alot of the ayyat were sent for things at that specific time.
Here is the fallacy. Who sent those messages? I know your answer is from Almighty God.
My answer is ” no mortal never and ever received any message
from a living god, never and ever had seen god and visited heaven and hell”. All the religeous scriptures were composed and
compiled by humans and deliberatly put in the mouth of god so that ignorent masses follow it blindly without any question.
Now it is time to scrutinise the scripture critically, reject those
teaching not appropriate of our time even it is from god. Tell me
why I have no right to ask and question to my beloved god? I reserve that right till death.
Don’t think I am bashing islam and muslims. They are the integral
part of humanity and I belong to them.
Dear Brother Halim,
I welcome your comments about Islam and Quran (Koran) teachings and, as Muslim, really I didn’t them as well. Bcoz I think until people will not express their knowledge & perception about Islam & Quran then how can we (muslims) can tell them the TRUTH about it.
My dear, what ever you said is just bcoz of what is written in books & taught in Western & American universities about Islam from last 100 years. And now western & American Media has fulfilling this ‘Muslim-hate’ propaganda very well. I don’t wana go in detail, just quote the incident of Oklohoma Bombing in 1995. The culprit of Oklohoma was a Christian who did this bombing for some national issues. But all American media didn’t wrote & said that he is ‘Christian TERRORIST’, and never ever I read in any Muslim country newspapers & media who portrayed him (Irish Republic Army also) as a ‘Christian TERRORIST’. This is the root of conspiracy of hate against Muslim. We Muslims have very open heart & religious harmony. But you see if any single wrong thing happen in any part of world Islam is blamed, Why ?. Why you bring religion in every issue.
In my blog I didn’t wrote anything against Christians, West and America, in fact blamed our own people. And I didn’t said that KILL these people who are creating people. The ’solution’ I gave is to study the Quran & Sunnah yourself, and you will in it that there is no place of ‘extremism’ in Islam. And the same is my suggestion to you me dear pls. read Quran with open heart, really its very loving book.
God didn’t said anywhere in Quran that kill non-believer (Kafirs), munafikeen, apostate. He allowed this only if they fight with Muslim. Killing is very far, even Prophet Mohammad (ASW) never ever said any one as ‘muanfic’. Even he (ASW) offered prayer for his worst against person Abdullah bin Oubie (though his role & activities are witnessed by God). Pls. tell me about any verse you find in Quran where God is asking Muslims to kill Kafirs, munafikeen and apostate where ever you find.
The people who do these extremist activates on the name is Islam are in fact mis-guided people who are using Islam for their own purposes. Just like Bush & Tony Blair imposed war on on Iraq for their own interests, despite they neither found any weapon of mass-destruction.
Regarding God’s ‘fierceness & brutality’ its just the perception & interpretation of Quran & Sunnah. I am not decline of hell but its man’s own perception. He mentioned the heaven more than number of hell. Most of the of places he talked about his mercy, forgiveness and love for human beings, even he introduced him as ‘God of Merciful & beneficial’. Its the wrong ‘religious clerks’ (Sheikhs) who afraid people from God, rather than God should be loved. In true the meaning of Islam is peace & love
For world peace & harmony, prophet Mohammad (ASW) already given us lesson that ‘as human being ‘ We all are one family of God ‘, regardless of color, language, race and religion. And Islam teaches us We should help & care our ‘FAMILY’ in every manner as our own real family.
And I always believe religion & political attachment is every one’s personal matter. If you don’t believe in religion I don’t argue with you and not give any reason to believe in. But I again ‘request’ you before giving any opinion and comment about Islam & Quran pls. Once read Quran (without any tafsir) and Life of Prophet Mohammad (ASW). For any enquiry & question about Islam pls. feel free to ask….
Rasha,
Yea, I am hopeful that society & people will change. As we start educating our children about Human values & rights and ‘accepting’ & ‘respecting’ others sects (madhab) of Islam & Non-Muslims. And don’t acting as God (judge) to evaluate faiths and declaring them munafik/kafir. And promise our self that we will consistent and not compromise with evils groups who are abusing society & religion for their own rule & power.
Halim,
I again say, Quran is ever lasting and doesn’t need any revision and scrutiny. As you don’t believe in any holy book (including Quran) then my dear pls. don’t give any opinion about it, whether it need any review or scrutiny.
Verses of Quran are universal and practicable in every era and today also. They are not about any specific time period and obsolete now, not at all….
There is no single verse in Quran, which contradicts with current situation and system of world, if you know any pls. tell me ?. In fact they are beyond than the current science research. So many things are mentioned in Quran 1400 years before which science has discovered now. But as you say you don’t believe in holy book so I stop to here.
You have full right to ask & talk with your beloved God. Every one in this world has right to love God as his/her own way. I tell you one incident may be you like. Once Prophet Moses/Mosa (AS) was passing by a shepherd/farmer man and he was sitting alone and talking with God. Oh…God if I find you, I will give you a bath, I will wear you beautiful dresses and make your hairs, etc….As Prophet Moses/Mosa (AS) heard this, he angry & shouted on this shepherd/farmer and said what bullshit you are saying about God. Immediately make apologize (tauba) other wise God will punish you. That person immediately apologize and ask forgiveness from God.
As Prophet Moses/Mosa (AS) reach to Toor mountain to talk with God, God asked Prophet Moses/Mosa (AS) what that shepherd/farmer was saying?. Prophet Moses/Mosa (AS) told whole story, then God said oh… Moses/Mosa (AS) he is a shepherd/farmer and he is expressing his love as per his own knowledge & way. Why you angry and shouted him, go back and tell him God liked his way of love and love him as well. Prophet Moses/Mosa went back and find the shepherd/farmer and told him about God likeness, he immediately died, bcoz of happiness that God loves him and listen his prayer.
So my dear we can’t imagine how much our lovely God loves us…..more than 70% our mothers loves us………
As a reply to your reply Ali, I don’t see things changing any time soon.. may God help us.. I hope I am wrong.
Things will not change unless the school books and educational programs change.
I will give you an example, I was discussing the Sunni/Sheit differences in job opportunities here in Saudi with a University faculty, I have dealt with so many Sheit and I have seen many who are very hard working people, the University does not accept any Sheit to teach history or religion. Why you might ask? So he/she would not have the influence on the students in these matters. So there is a control and bias over what is being taught and who is teaching the material.. if these things don’t change, we as a society will not.
Assalamu alaykum
Brothers n Sisters in Islaam, May Allah have Mercy on you all, all this talk of modernization and moving forward must be within the framework of adherence of Quran and Sunnah.
Allah SWT says in Surah anfaal:
“Wa atee3ullaaha wa atee3urRasool” (and obey Allah and His Messenger).
Likewise he orders us in surah Hujuraat to not repeat the news of a Faasiq and spread it unless you have made sure it is factual and correct.
The British started using the term ‘Wahabbi’ when hey invaded Hindustan and wanted to ‘outcast’(no pun intended) those who made jihad against them resisting the dhulm and oppression. They said they had a new religion and didnt respect our beloved Prophet SAWS because of their shunning of religious innovations/bida3ah such as celebrating his meelaad and making him an intercessor to Allaah etc.
Muhammad ibn Abdul-Wahhaab never created a new sect, never revolted against the Khalifah etc. Reading works of his such as his e.g Usoolu-thThalaatha and Kitaabut-Tawheed it is clear his methodolgy was calling to at-Tawheed and shunning ash-Shirk and always giving daleel for his masaa’il. One should be very careful about spreading lies about our predecessors in faith.
It is a shame to hear my beloved brothers & sdisters labeling Muslims as extremists whilst unable to look at their own shortcomings and not looking past much distortations spread by the media.
Your brother in Islaam
Muhammad
Rasha,
The Shea are not the same as the Shea in the time of Ali (Radhyullahu anhu) who were possessing the correct aqeedah/creed.
Over time many of them have broken into many firaq such as the Ithna- 3Ashareeya of Iraq who believe their Imaams know the ghayb/unseen and are more knowledgeable than Nabiyunaa Muhammad SAWS in addition to them making takfeer on all the Sahaaba in addition to slandering the Ummul-Mu’mineen Aa’isha RA with being a zaaniyah…these are all actions/beliefs that nullify ones Islaam (min nawaaqissul-Islaam).
People ascribing themselves to this must not gain positions of authority where they would start to corrupt/deceive the masses.
I am in the UK and I can tell you the problems of letting those who are deviants in positions of power/influence.
-The Zionist lobby within the Government as well as those in the Media have brainwashed the British People through the well co-ordinated campaigns…
-in addition to the Homosexuals in these facilities and in schools who propagate their deviant sexual creeds and practices, so much that that they have:
legalized homosexual/gay marriages,
installed openly gay clergy in the churches,
attempting to legalize prostitution,
lowered the age that one may be allowed to practice buggery/sodomy and are campaigning to lower it to 14years of age.
Just imagine Rasha ,if the limits of Allah are not upheld in your land and ppl want ‘reform’(as the ‘Modern’ world want it) what is to stop an open homosexual (lootee dhaahir) from being a teacher, a lecturer etc in your society.
I do not know whether it is permitted to post essentially the same post in two different threads but if I shouldn’t, please tell me.
I think this sort of discussion ignores the 600 pound gorilla in the room, and that gorilla is Turkey.
Turkey is the most populous country in the Middle East and the largest. By every measure it is the most successful Muslim society - it has high levels of income, education, health and life expectancy, and so on, and it is a parliamentary democracy.
Turkey is the model Muslim countries should be trying to emulate yet no one here mentions it. Modern Turkey is not just the creation of Mustafa Kemal but also of the consensus of the Turkish people who wanted to adopt his modernizations and secularizations.
In Turkey public authority is in the hands of the state, not of the imams. And Turkey does not use the “the dog ate my homework” excuse of blaming Israel and the US for whatever goes wrong there.
Taking power out of the hands of the imam and taking responsibility for its own circumstances have made Turkey what it is today. Doing the opposite has made many other countries what they are today as well.
Jack, you ignore way too much about Turkey, leading me to think that you don’t know much about it.
Don’t forget:
1) What Turkey does to its Kurds.
2) Its state-owned ISPs blocks videos or sites critical of Ataturk or the ruling party.
3) Freedom of speech is not respected; anyone from student activists to professors get arrested and harrassed.
4) Turkey is not modern with such poor human rights records and such poor standards of education that doesn’t even allow you to criticize neither Islam as a religion nor any leaders.
Like I said the other place you posted this, many human rights activists were abused in this country. Did you also not read the controversy about harassing women and headscarves in Universities? You call the hijab ban “modernizationâ€? It’s hideous.
Turkey is NOTHING like how you describe it.
Mohamed ArRumi, I live near San Francisco and there are lots of gays in every profession here.
You suggest that a gay teacher is the worst of all possible evils. I disagree. If the person explaining geometry at the blackboard explains it well, what do I care what he does when he or she goes home? As to the risk to the young people, I am no more willing to have a man fondle my daughter than my son. That is strictly forbidden to all, gay and straight alike.
Esra’a, what you say is correct. What you describe are regressions from the nationalist vision of Mustafa Kemal, and from what Turkey was like a few years ago. The modernity and freedom of Turkey are eroding in exactly the manner you describe. It is a hard question whether the clericalism of the National Salvation Party is causing the regression or is representative of a broader trend.
I for one was hopeful that the admission of Turkey to at least associate status in the European Union would arrest or even reverse her current slide backward. But the Europeans apparently decided that it is up to Turkey to achieve that on her own.
Still, even Turkey’s current misfortunes support my point. As the imams have gained more power there lately, public freedoms have been curtailed.
There is also a grimmer prospect looming on the horizon for Turkey. Whatever the outcome of the Iraq war, it is foreseeable that in any postwar scenario Kurdistan will be independent in all but name. With an independent Kurdistan on its border it will only be a matter of time until Kurdish “resistance” begins within Turkey, and possibly in Syria and Iran as well. That conflict may well be protracted and bloody.
Aside from the lives that will be lost and made miserable during the fight, Turkish democracy may perish as well. It is not a happy prospect.
Your point isn’t valid because what’s happening is political and historical, not religious. These aren’t “imams” - these are political leaders making these mistakes and curtailing freedoms. Not imams or anybody else, but the president and ministers and other political leaders.
Turkey doesn’t deserve to be in the EU especially if they don’t respect freedom of speech or the right for women to choose what they wear (hijab.) I don’t see the country as one that is more progressed than other Muslim countries. Minorities are oppressed; Christians get killed by extrimists, as do Armenian authors, as do anyone who dares to speak about human rights. None of this support your point at all, there is no tolerance whatsoever for anyone who thinks or believes in different things.
It’s nothing like you say it is Jack. This isn’t progress.
This is politics. Not religion. You are blaming imams when it’s politicians committing these crimes, many of whom aren’t even religious.
Finally you are wrong in calling them imams. An imam is someone who leads any prayer in Islam - what you mean to say is just “religious leaders.” Imam means and implies entirely different things.
Esra’a - it would be easy to agree with you but I can’t. An example is election abuses. It is often said that this country or that one is not a democracy because of various misdeeds in the electoral process. But a flawed electoral process is light-years separated from a system where there are no elections at all.
Similarly, while Turkish society has lots flaws and failings, and admittedly is getting worse, it is still a society with an elected parliament, legal opposition parties, a relatively free press, and an independent judicial system.
Going back to my earlier point, I think it is not a coincidence that Turkish political life is getting more repressive at the same time as the economy is faltering. I think people who feel prosperous and secure are likely to be more tolerant than those who feel marginalized and threatened.
I agree that it is not about religion, but it IS about religious leaders gaining more power that in other countries would be in the hands of state officials or politicians.
Thank you for the explanation about imams. Khomeini was often referred to as “the Imam” so I thought it meant something like “religious leader”.
Hi Ali
Nice to hear from you.
You said
“You have full right to ask & talk with your beloved God. Every one in this world has right to love God as his/her own way. I tell you one incident may be you like. Once Prophet Moses/Mosa (AS) was passing by a shepherd/farmer man and he was sitting alone and talking with God. Oh…God if I find you, I will give you a bath, I will wear you beautiful dresses and make your hairs, etc….As Prophet Moses/Mosa (AS) heard this, he angry & shouted on this shepherd/farmer and said what bullshit you are saying about God. Immediately make apologize (tauba) other wise God will punish you. That person immediately apologize and ask forgiveness from God”.
It seems you are so fortunate. You listened the conversation between GOD(Allah) and prophet Moses. How they looked, how old you were at that time. Did you recorded the dialogue. Please
let us know in details. The way Moses speaks it exposes he was a stupid. How you consider him prophet?
Yes I talk to my beloved god every now and then. Read the following.
Halim. Good morning Allah. How are you?
Allah. I am fine. How are you my son?
Halim. With your blessing I am fine. I like to ask you a question. Will you permit me?
Allah. Yes, Yes, I feel so happy that you speaking to me.
Halim. Do you think it is my duty to read Al-Kuran to know about
your teaching to mankind?
Allah. My son, you make me so frustrated. Why you need to read
this book that book when I am ready to talk to you in
person. Ask me any question, answer will be given
immediately.
More will follow.
Kessler, welcome.
I am against homosexuality and Im not a ‘homophobe’ as they wish me to be labelled…I do not have a phobia of buggers and queers, or men who wish to dress up as women and vice versa or transexuals. I am disgusted by them.
If you accept their way, then why not accept the man who wants to have anal sex with a boy? It may be ‘in his genes or chromosomes’ just as they, homosexuals claim for their deviancy using mere (disproven) theories such as Darwinism and perverted thinkers such as Freud.
Anyone who believes in God and accepts His Word knows that God chose a male for a female…and destroyed those who wished to transgress that as what happened in Sodom and Ghomorra. Thats is a literal and clear lesson that we cannot try and twist to suit somes hideous desires.
[…] of Islamic faith. 5. Corruption of the Faith for power. ….could go on for ages. Read this: Mideast Youth - Thinking Ahead Blog Archive Extremism & True Islam Educated young Arab giving his views on the sectarianism/faith. Which is a huge factor in why […]