My Own Middle East Peace Crusade
It’s not just because my mother is from Bethlehem or that my father is from Jerusalem that makes me so concerned about peace between Palestinians and Israelis.
What happens in the Middle East directly impacts our own lives right here in America. I can’t help but to believe that if President Clinton had solved the conflict in his rush before leaving office, maybe we would not have the troubles today that made it easy for fanatics to attack America on Sept. 11 — not that the Palestinian revolution has anything to do with the Islamicism fanaticism that is spreading throughout the Arab World.
Maybe the cost of gasoline would not be so high. Maybe we wouldn’t be in Iraq today, losing three and four American soldiers’ lives every day with no hope of winning in sight.
But then, I’m a “moderate,” which is just another word for a fatalistic optimist.
So next week, I will be off on another one of my Middle East peace crusades, trying to do my little part, the make my tiny, maybe insignificant contribution towards nudging the two sides, Palestinians and Israelis into believing that peace is possible.
I’ll do another comedy tour of Israeli and Palestinian cities partnering with fellow Chicago comedian Aaron freeman and two courageous Israeli comedians, Yisrael Campbell and Charley Warady. (www.IPComedyTour.com). I will also participate in a conference on defining a vision for peace Monday June 11 at Haifa University with Professors John Myhill and Fania Salzberg. I’ll have more information posted on my web site at www.hanania.com and also here.
Warady and I met by accident. I penned an online novel called “MidNight Flight” about racial white flight from Chicago’s Southwest Side in the late 1960s that he read, discovering that he lived only a few blocks away in “Pill Hill.”
Pill Hill was where all the rich doctors lived, along with Warady’s neighbors like Curtis Mayfield and Ernie Banks.
Actually, I lived east of Jeffrey in the neighborhood called “Bill Hill” where all the patients of the doctors lived.
Warady e-mailed me around Thanksgiving. When he said he was a comedian, too, I challenged him to appear with me on stage to do what Jackie Mason refused to do back in August 2002, though the brouhaha landed us both loads of media. Warady took up the challenge without hesitation and with enthusiasm. (We just returned from a 1,200 seat performance at Toronto’s prestigious Roy Thomson Hall.)
There are 18 Arab American comedians, I’m the only one not in jail, none so far will partner with Israelis, or “the entity” as they call them. I think it is a ridiculous taboo so I decided that in order to set an example for peace, you have to break the ugly, stupid and ridiculous taboos.
We performed five sold out shows in Israel and East Jerusalem last January. Next week, we go back to do 10 more performances beginning June 7 in Tel Aviv, West Jerusalem, East Jerusalem, Haifa, Ra’anana and Beersheba in the Negev Desert.
Humor is a powerful way to diffuse anger and undermine hatred.
If we can laugh together, we can live together. I know because my wife, Alison, who is Jewish, and I celebrate 10 years of blissful marriage this July; our only conflicts involve the fact that she is a Republican and I am a Democrat. (She says the Republican Party is the Party of God. Where I come from, that’s called Hezbollah.)
Humor won’t resolve the conflict but it might help change a few minds. It’s easy to hate someone you don’t know, and harder to hate someone you do know.
Sharing laughter, laughing with someone rather than at someone as Don Imus once did, can change how people see each other.
And right now, we can use a little laughter. Not just in the Palestine-Israel conflict, but also right here in America.
Which reminds me: President Bush is concerned about the invasion of Chicago by that new and ferocious al-Qaeda sub-cell, that he calls, the “sa-Qaedas.”
(Ray Hanania’s web site is www.hanania.com.)
Perhaps you know the expression, “Preaching to the choir”? Advocating peace in Israel is a waste of time because Israeli have always wanted peace. There is no Israeli equivalent of rejectionism, no plans to push the Arabs into the sea, no holy book heaping derision and hostility on the Arabs.
If you want to do something for peace, try doing your act in Gaza, Ramallah, and Jericho. Of course you would be killed for trying, but that certainly shows who and what the problem is, doesn’t it?
sure we Israelis want peace — but due to what has already taken place there is almost no TRUST! on either side! It doesn’t take a Dr. Freud to figure out how a Palestinian must have felt leaving his home during all the confusion of 1948. Even if this is all part of God’s master plan, things happend that shattered the old reality….. trauma resulted and now it’s time to start a healing process and regain some trust. I’m not talking politics or religion here….. let’s just laugh and love and care a little more than we have. It may be our only hope.
Ray, is your stand-up a secondary job or are do you make a career out of comedy and journalism? Just out of curiosity.
@ Jack Kessler
I think that the settlers and people supporting the settlers are the israeli equivalent of rejectionism and of a holy book heaping derision and hostilitity on the arabs.
Of course you can say that the jewish scriptures dont preach hatred but according to the settlers they (indirecty) do.
So stop pretending to be the reasonable, unguilty one in this conflict. We all know that both parties talk shit, do shit and eat shit.
Ah Jack. Living in your own blind world. Always blaming the Palestinians but closing your eyes to the extremism in Israel. I support peace and moderation, but as I have said in the past, a true moderate is someone who sees the truth on BOTH sides, and who criticizes not only the other side but their own side. Part of the problem in the Middle East, unfortunately, are people like you who exaggerate criticism of the Palestinians and ignore criticism of Israel. BOTH sides have issues and have done things they need to change. And when you pretend that Israel has no real responsibility or that people like Sharon or Netanyahu want peace, or Avigdor Lieberman, one of the most racist and hateful people in Israel (I like to call him the Ahmadinejad of Israel), then, well, you are not a part of the “Peace Choir” that I am preaching to.
But, I do appreciate your opinion.
Thanks
Ray Hanania
Oh and hey to Patrick. I was a journalist, and now mainly am a columnist, which is somewhat different. (A reporter reports or should report the news fairly and accurately. A columnist takes that information, adds his own twist and offers a subjective perspective to help readers understand the news. I’ve actually been writing columns mainly for the past 10 years as my main journalism endeavor. I also have published two Arab American newspapers and this month launch a third called the Arab American Times Newspaper (English and Arabic) … the web page is http://www.AATimesNews.com. No politics, just a focus on Arab American culture, society and events. (I support all of the other Arab American newspapers which also do a great job of addressing politics, but I wanted to do something that offers a focused look at the other areas.)
The comedy is a mission more than a job. I really do believe that humor is a powerful way to break through the hatred. If we can laugh together, we can live together. You should have seen the enthusiasm after the Toronto Show May 29. We brought down the house with 1,200 people int he audience at Roy Thomson Hall. About 45 mostly Palestinian Arabs waited for me after the show and their enthusiasm for the humor and rejection of the fanaticism in our community was so moving to me.
I love the Arab community. They are so great. One couple insisted that the next time I come to Toronto, I have dinner at their home and stay there. We Arabs are always so excessively generous and always ready to open our hearts and give everything we have to help people. That’s the true Arab spirit we don’t often see among the small group of fanatics and extremists who do everything based on selfish politics.
The comedy is a parttime job but my heart remains in writing. (I have 8 books including the most recent, “Arabs of Chicagoland” by Arcadia Publishing. (The books are listed on my web site at http://www.hanania.com, with everything else, of course.)
Thanks
Ray Hanania
I still don’t understand what is the Israeli notion of “ peaceâ€
while Israel is supposing to be “ negotiating †a peace settlement with the Palestinians over the West Bank and Gaza, since Oslo, they in the process have built more illegal Jewish settlements over stolen Palestinian lands, doubling the illegal settlers population and built highways, tunnels and bridges, that eat up even more Palestinian land , imprisoned more Palestinians, ( over 10,000 prisoner) killed more, destroyed and traumatized the Palestinian society for generations to come, and still they say “ ohh we want peace, but you Arabs want to throw us in the sea†what does Israel exactly mean with the word “ Peace†!
I am wondering … really.. do Israelis expect the Palestinians to throw flowers at them, or protest the theft of their land and the murder of their people by sending them thank you cards, or writing letters to the editor!
Ray: It’s easy to hate someone you don’t know, and harder to hate someone you do know. You know Charles Malik ? (blogname) He once, long before the Israel/Lebanon war last year wrote the following unforgettable (at least for me) words :
Not knowing about “them” is the worst crime we can commit. It invalidates them as humans, as if they don’t even matter. They are Stalin’s faceless enemy, the rabid dog, the evil blood suckers whom it is righteous to kill.
this goes for everybody who’s locked up in their own little world and afraid to step out (because then, maybe, they’ll have to meet themselves… )
Ali, you lost one eye?
And yesterday morning Mohammed Mar’i reported a story about further Israeli terrorist tactics…
Israeli High Court Permits Torture of Palestinians
Kudos to Israel for taking yet another step towards “peace…” sigh.
Israel must realize that the Palestinians are not about to give up their right to reconstitute their state based on their native right in that land. They did not give it up in 1936, 1948, 1956, 1967- to the present, and I don’t think it will ever happen.
If you ask any Palestinians child in any refugees camp scattered around in the Arab world where he from is, he will answer you with a name of his village that is no longer exist and now is perhaps an Israeli town.
Sometimes, it amazes me that Russian immigrants, now Israeli politicians.. Think Sharansky, or Leiberman, speak of “deporting†the Palestinians, or want to “transfer†them out of their own native land. Give me a break!
Palestinians did not come or immigrate from somewhere to be “granted†their own country, or to be given VISAS to visit their former towns and villages now lie underneath some Israeli mall or suburb.
Israelis need to really explore the humanity of the Palestinian people and cross that psychological threshold that Palestinians and Arabs are human beings not insects or animals that should be caged in big prisons like Gaza, or kill them wholesale, or lock them up in their towns and cities.
Israel must realize that the Palestinians are not about to give up their right to reconstitute their state based on their native right in that land. They did not give it up in 1936, 1948, 1956, 1967- to the present, and I don’t think it will ever happen.
Well, Ali it will for always stay war then. Your choice.
Esra’a, only for Palestinians is it made into a ‘case’ - ‘criminals’ get tortured as well here but nobody really hears about it -
However, torture is inhumane and humiliating and should be condemned byhigh and by low and always and by everyone, still the israeli torture is nothing compared to the torture applied in our surrounding neighbor’s countries. I don’t say that to talk Israel out of its responsibilities - but to balance a bit, and to show you it doesn’t necessarily have to do with longing for peace or not (as you seem to draw your conclusion).
Sorry, that’s a bad statement to make, surely you don’t even know what goes on within these prisons. You always assume that Israel is an “angel” compared to the rest of us, and that is a nationalist mentality to have that shouldn’t ever be approved of. Learn how to admit your mistakes and condemn them without belittling others like you so often do to us.
Your comment solidifies my point that some Israelis, and some Jews see the Palestinians through the prism of either they give up their right to be free in their own state or war! Slavery to Israel or war, or living in reservations or war! .. another example of Israeli kind of ” peace”
And tsedek, if you think Israel is such an innocent and advanced democracy, I’ll have you know that Israel is home to one of the worst cases when it comes to sexual slavery and human trafficking. Why do you always compare your practices with neighboring countries and assume that you are so far in terms of progress and advancement? There’s nothing wrong with being proud of your achievements, which is mostly thanks to the U.S, but it’s just sad that your only solution, instead of peace and overall acceptance, is acceptance that Israel is somehow much better and should reserve the right to do whatever it pleases to Palestinians or other Arabs. Why do you feel that way, and what is so wrong in admitting your mistakes for once without justifying it or claiming that “it’s fine because Arabs are guilty of worse?”
You are here trying to propose a solution without realizing that you are actually part of the problem. When we condemn violence from Palestine, you call it “moderation,” but when Israelis condemn Israeli violence, most call it being a “traitor.” You should aim to fix that, instead of justifying these mentalities (and having the same one too.) A step towards peace is when you realize that all violence and torture no matter what must be condemned regardless of race, nationalities, or lousy justifications. Israel makes heaps of errors and mistakes, horrific human rights violations, what are you doing to ensure that it doesn’t happen instead of blaming it on the Palestinians all the time?
Sorry, that’s a bad statement to make, surely you don’t even know what goes on within these prisons.
Well, actually I sorta do. Look at the clips sandmonkey placed in his blog, or at the testimonies of the people that got replaced from Guatanomo to Egypt…. and you will get a fairly good impression.
Israel used to keep such practices as well (the “famous” Guam prison in Lebanon for instance for which it should be condemned and punished, but this hard-core torture is history now. (thank God)
You always assume that Israel is an “angel†compared to the rest of us,
Esra’s I wish I could one time get through to you. I am NOT comparing Israel with you. That’s the same thing as comparing Jordan (or whatever country) with me. You (and every individual living everywhere) is you. Countries however have their governmental system, which is something I don’t connect with PEOPLE, but with a system. Okay?
and that is a nationalist mentality to have that shouldn’t ever be approved of. Learn how to admit your mistakes and condemn them without belittling others like you so often do to us.
I challenge you to give me one example where I “belittle” you. Please, do it, because that way we can maybe get to the core of the matter and get misunderstandings out of the way. I’m awaiting your example
Your comment solidifies my point that some Israelis, and some Jews see the Palestinians through the prism of either they give up their right to be free in their own state or war! Slavery to Israel or war, or living in reservations or war! .. another example of Israeli kind of †peaceâ€
Ali, Israeli peace = two natiions - two countries.
If you’d like to think one nation away for the convenience of having the other nation’s rights put on top, it won’t work. Sorry
Haha. I love that you are using Sandmonkey as a valid source of information here. Try again.
What makes you so sure? Have you actually witnessed what Palestinians are going through in these prisons? Obviously, since you appear to know everything.
Israel as a system is just as bad as any other Arab country that doesn’t compile by international law.
Your comparison above is a valid example of this.
Did Ali even imply that? No. What he and many others here are saying is that Israel needs to respect Palestinian human rights - which right now, it certainly doesn’t. No one is going to bow down to your government, which seems to be what you want for “peace” to become a reality.
And tsedek, if you think Israel is such an innocent and advanced democracy, I’ll have you know that Israel is home to one of the worst cases when it comes to sexual slavery and human trafficking.
I know, I work with it…. But what does this tell? Again a reaction of mine that there are others that are much worse? What does it solve?
Why do you always compare your practices with neighboring countries and assume that you are so far in terms of progress and advancement?
Esra’a, I don’t. I’m am very proud tho on our social organizations that ARE standing up to injustices, there are many of those: both organizations and injustices. Nothing to do with advancement. Personally I’m even not advanced so understand very little in it and it doesn’t interest me at all anyway.
There’s nothing wrong with being proud of your achievements, which is mostly thanks to the U.S,
Thanks to the U.S.? Nope, dear Esra’a. Money can be given to anyone, it depends on WHAT someone’s drive is. If he wants to progress or stand still in time…. People that lost their WHOLE family in the Holocaust came here and remarried, had children (again), started new careers and build their lives… Esra’a thanks to the spirit of people like these the country can be proud of its achievements. Has totally NOTHING to do with the U.S.
but it’s just sad that your only solution, instead of peace and overall acceptance, is acceptance that Israel is somehow much better and should reserve the right to do whatever it pleases to Palestinians or other Arabs.
Where did you get this nonsense from in heavensname? How can you even think to know what I think? Don’t you think that’s a tiny bit presumptious?
Why do you feel that way, and what is so wrong in admitting your mistakes for once without justifying it or claiming that “it’s fine because Arabs are guilty of worse?â€
And, that’s exactly what I was not doing and what you could have understood should you read exactly the letters I wrote without connecting presumptions to it. I was ONLY making this comparison to take away your claim that it might be connected to not wanting peace. Because it isn’t. If the neighbors (and not only them) are doing it without war - why should it be connected to wanting war by Israel? Don’t seclude Israel, but treat it as any other country, because that’s what it is. YOU are the one taking it out of the context and placing it in a secluded place connecting it with not wanting peace. Not I.
You are here trying to propose a solution without realizing that you are actually part of the problem. When we condemn violence from Palestine, you call it “moderation,†but when Israelis condemn Israeli violence, most call it being a “traitor.â€
I don’t care and am not responsible for what ‘most’ call what.
You should aim to fix that, instead of justifying these mentalities (and having the same one too.) A step towards peace is when you realize that all violence and torture no matter what must be condemned regardless of race, nationalities, or lousy justifications.
Fix what? That you didn’t understand what I wrote? Here on this forum I don’t see anybody following the pattern you just described and outside of it there exists the problem from TWO SIDES, my dear. So, again: don’t exclude Israel, approach it from both sides.
Israel makes heaps of errors and mistakes, horrific human rights violations, what are you doing to ensure that it doesn’t happen instead of blaming it on the Palestinians all the time?
Nobody is denying Israeli’s “heaps of errors and mistakes, horrific human rights violations” etc. And, if you think I’m blaming it on the Palestinians all the time then you are not reading my comments and I kinda not like you at all now for these presumptious, prejudiced explanation you seem to take out of my writings. Sorry. I can only say in order to have some kind of progress and willingness to have this stopped there needs to be cooperation between all parties involved and no seclution of Israel in anything. And most of all: who is catalysing all this and what is the root that has to be taken out for this snowball to stop. And, I can assure you: that’s not Israel.
Esra’a I work for a law-office handling human rights organizations pro bono and yes, I know what goes on within the prison-etablissement here.
Sandmonkey also made up those clips? You can shoot the messenger, but his message is still there, Esra’a.
So what are talking about in the victimized “you think you’re better than us” posting to what I reacted? I say exactly this, you complain about it, I explain, and then you say the same thing??? Okay then: if you think people are wired to electricity here and thrown buckets of water while being electrified, or have their eye taken out, or all of that hard core stuff - you’re simply wrong. You don’t have to believe me, and you won’t - but that doesn’t interest me at all. I write what I KNOW. The rest is up to you.
If this is an example of my ’superiority’ over you, I have nothing to do here anymore on this forum. I would just add that your comprehension is thickly covered in a victimhoodsyndrom seeing things that don’t exist. If you could only just READ - as I explained before - the letters instead of connecting them to your prejudice it should show you a totally different picture. But halas….. you can only see what you are programmed to see probably.
No, Esra’a what Ali is saying is that he (and he assumes he speaks for all Palestinians or most of them - see his comment above) - will never give up his grandparents house IN Israel even if it doesn’t exist anymore, he will never give up his goal of ‘regaining’ that house. That, Esra’a is a CLEAR declaration of war: because that house isn’t here anymore and I am. Comprenez?
If you call this advancement, that under your hands, such human rights abuses can go unpunished, then I call it injustice. There’s nothing at all to be proud of if you collectively allow these human rights abuses to continue to happen.
What a hideous statement to make! He has every right to say that. It is his HOME which he has every right to secure from Israeli bombardment, and you’re telling me this is a declaration of war?
Obviously you are not interested in living with your fellow Palestinians… your solution is to what, kick them all out?! Dear God.
Israeli systematic degradation, torture, expulsion and wholesale demolition and killing of Palestinians are not isolated incidents of a democratic country, but rather as I mentioned above “systematic: as a state policy in dealing with the Palestinian people. In fact it started right off 1967 war with Israel controlling more Palestinian land and people when the Defense Minister Moshe Dayan put it in much clearer terms along the lines of “we should treat the Palestinians like dogs, and the more we treat them like dogs more of them will have to leave†its not working!
History provides us a valuable lesson in that no occupation of another people and their land has ever worked. It did not work in India, or Algeria (with more than 500, 000 soldiers and Algeria was a province of La France) or in Africa, Asia, or anywhere else.
So why should it work for Israel? I don’t think it will!
Another thing I love about you is the way in which you say that you speak entirely from facts while the rest of us (anyone with a different opinion from you) is relying solely on propaganda. I am arguing from my own personal perspective, my own personal bias, and here you are, enforcing your opinions upon me as if it’s the truth and the ONLY solution. So because I think differently and want to ensure different things, you tell me that I am blind and “programmed” to think this way, as if I am too stupid to actually have an informed opinion?
Yeah, only you have informed opinions! Nothing I saw from your post other than “I know, I know, I work in this field!”
Where is the productivity in your posts? Why are you blaming us here for thinking differently and telling us that we are intolerant (or at least implying it strongly,) if you hold yourself so much higher from us and claim that we want war simply because we have a different solution to the problems?
I maintain my stance that your mentality is only feeding hatred. You’re not doing anything or anybody a favor by doing what you love to do in forums like these. We’re here to collaborate, NOT to propagandize and litter the threads with “I know better and you are wrong.”
Declaration of war eh!
Let me talk about one of Israel’s best propaganda myths!
You see…. Many Israelis claim how heroic the state of Israel when at the time of its birth in 1948, it repelled the aggression and attacks of six Arab armies and it was Israeli heroism that triumphed over those six mighty strong Arab armies.
The truth is: (according to the historical record and the work of Israeli historians)
The six Arab armies in 1948, Egypt, Lebanon, Egypt, Syria, Jordan, and Iraq totaled only 20,000 soldiers (Lebanon’s Army did not actually fight and did not formerly enter the borders)
None of those Arab armies had any air force to speak off (Jordan had 0 airplanes) the Egyptian army it was found out that their fighting weapons in Palestine were dysfunctional!
On the other hand, the Jewish Militias in 1948 had 60,000 strong soldiers’ ( 3 times the size of six Arab armies) and very will equipped and trained and complete with modern weapons and an air force, many of them had served in European armies!
Sorry guys, you are not a peace blog/forum at all. You’re here to justify yourselves and pretend. You won’t get anywhere with this nonsense talking to israeli’s. Israeli’s (generalization, I know) won’t get slapped on the wrist by anyone’s pretentions. Ali is saying that his house IN israel is what he is after and you talk about the PA esra’a. totally mixed up you two, and obsesssed with justifying yourselves.
Whenever you want to apologize you know where to find me.
good luck with you forum,
Tse.
It is a very irritating conversation… oh, fuck it.
Once again the Israelis here show their knowledge in “productive dialogue.”
If anyone here is pretending it’s you Tsedek and you know it fully. Your idea of “peace” is for Palestinians to give up their rights for your sake - and we won’t bow down to your demands in doing so. It’s pitiful, it’s inhumane, and it’s unjust.
Don’t come here to spread your propaganda and to justify these horrific errors that you have YET to personally condemn. You don’t like this forum simply because you yourself are not a peaceful and understanding person at all, and for this, you will surely not be missed.
Don’t expect an apology either. You’re not better than us the way you think you are just because you’re Israeli. There are plenty of decent Israelis who understand fully what it means to be level-headed and understanding. Your insistence that we’re not peaceful merely because we disagree with you is further testament of your own ignorance and utter misunderstanding.
Goodbye. Come back when you actually grow up and understand what it means to accept criticism. For now it seems that you put your pride above anything else - even above human rights - which is what this blog is fighting against. One day I hope you will realize and learn from your own mistakes (which you are too proud to even admit at this point.)
Oh yeah, and no wonder you were so persistent in keeping Yoni here, which turned out to be a false propaganda machine employed by your ever so perfect government which you love boasting about so much.
Accept the fact that you’re imperfect, and that you only wish to maintain your own security at the expense of other innocent human beings. It’s very shameful. I weep for your country if the majority think and feel the way you do.
Fortunately I know from the Israelis here, who actually respect our differences, that there are a lot of understanding Israelis out there. You’re just not one of them. Having them share their thoughts and feelings with us in a respectful manner while understanding fully where we come from doesn’t make them any less Zionist or proud to be Israelis. It just makes them more understanding of what it truly means to be a decent human being, instead of someone like you who has no problem justifying abuses and murder in the name of Israel, a country whose errors you simply refuse to acknowledge.
Ummm I forgetz What does Tsedek mean again? justice? Don’t let the door hit your talking head on the way out.
I assume that since you claim Israel “stole” Arab land, you will admit that the Arabs “stole” French land in Paris, Marseilles, Lyon, etcetera? That the Arabs stole British land in London, Manchester, Leeds, Bristol? I assume you will admit that the Palestinians stole Kuwaiti land until they were kicked out en masse by the Kuwaitis for collaborating with the Iraqi Ba’ath occupying army?
(Why are the Arabs so silent about the expulsion of 300,000 Palestinians from Kuwait in 1991? That is more than four times as many Palestinians as left their homes in 1948. And what is the connection between 300,000 suddenly unemployed men and the Second Intifada? An outsider might find it characteristic that instead of accepting responsibility for having been expelled for being treacherous guests, that the Palestinians blamed Israel for their situation. Oh I forgot, it was all on account of Sharon walking on the Temple Mount.)
I assume that, if you are in a Western country, you will admit you stole the land you are on right now? Or if you won’t admit you stole all those lands, will you give up repeating that stupid lie against the Israelis?
And don’t forget the theft of American land in Michigan and New Jersey. Give it back. The French, British, and American peoples will never give up our rights to our land.
Why is that when Arabs go to live in someone else’s country they are immigrants who have to be welcomed, but when anyone else goes to live near them they are settlers who have to be driven out or killed?
Stolen PALESTINIAN land.
Ya… give it back to the natives. Ohhh your talking about the Arabs who live there? Last time I checked, they are not claiming to be an independent nation and trying to ethnically cleanse the rest.
Because Arabs don’t go and live in a country and then say that is their country and ethnically cleanse the others.
And ones again another Israeli comes here and says stuff and when the other disagree, they say you don’t want peace bla bla bla and leaves. You are following in the foot steps of Ben, the fuck who thinks Holocaust is the only genocide ever took place, Racoon, the person who agreed with him, Howie who never stays on topic and claim Israel and US is better because Arabs do worse things, Yoni the propaganda machine and… damn you guys are as diverse as the “Arab” loons who have the same view as you, but are on the other side of the spectrum.
Why can’t you be like Ray, criticize whom ever is at fault and try to address the issue rather than just blame one side for all ills on this planet and claim that you are not as bad as them, and use that to justify everything you do.
oh my The shortbus is missing a rider
Is there a full moon or something?
You forgot Pacific Palisades and Beverly Hills or do rich Arabs not count?
Tsedek, I don’t know who or what you are, but you’re the most arrogant and annoying person I’ve ever had the misfortune of reading on this site. If anyone here owes anyone an apology it’s you.
Have you ever written a comment that is NOT a damned complaint?! You complain to Ray, you complain to Ali, you complain to Esra, you complain and never say anything of worth. I for one am glad you are leaving. Good riddance! No more complaints and arrogant remarks that have no intellectual value whatsoever.
Will the Israelis on this site please explain this?
Eliyahu advocates carpet bombing Gaza
And read the talkbacks.
So, since Israel does “no mistakes” ever and it’s never guilty (it only acts in “retaliation and self-defense”), who here is going to justify it? Obviously, Israelis do everything “for a good reason,” even if it includes murder and further bloodshed.
People like Eliyahu exist. Even within the army. That’s why we are here to condemn ALL sort sorts of violence except many Israelis here simply refuse to admit any error on their part.
Easy. It is an attempt to dissuade the peace-lovers in Gaza to stop carpet-bombing Sderot. Why do so many Arabs have so much difficulty seeing the connections between their actions and the consequences of their actions?
I feel as if I am watching a tennis match the ball goes from one court to the other..
so can anyone think of a solution instead of biting each others head off!
Some speak of peace, and how in hell can this be achieved if all parties are not willing to budge!
seriously, must I point this out to you? Is your name Jack Handy? or Jack Kessler?
Jack,
Horrific. A top rabbi asks to wipe out INNOCENT CIIVLIANS and here you are actually justifying it?! Rasha, how can you expect “peace” when we have people who justify murder all the time?
Have WE ever justified murder? Can you find me one single article on this website where we haven’t admitted our mistake and condemned the violence committed in the name of us and our religion? You wont find one!
But if you read above, Tsedek and Jack both never shy away from justifying murder and unjust war.
Constructive dialogue doesn’t mean wishing death upon an entire nation. It doesn’t mean we kiss each other’s asses. It means ADMITTING your own mistakes when you come across it without justifying murder, and treating other human beings as if they were one of your own. Otherwise it can only be hateful - not constructive.
So no, you simply cannot and should not expect peaceful debates when this mentality is so prevalent amongst the Israeli commenters here. Only when Israelis actually get the courage required to condemn people like this rabbi can we ever see real progress.
We condemn our terrorists. They should learn how to condemn theirs.
Jina, once again you are unable to connect Arab actions and the consequences of them. It was only after the Arabs began murderous attacks on unarmed Jewish immigrants in the 1920’s which accelerated in the 1930’s, and swelled to open war in the 1940’s that Israelis began to arm themselves. It was Arab bigotry, xenophobia, and violence which led to separation of the two communities and the creation of two states by the UN in 1947. Had the Arabs accepted Jewish immigration, as the Americans, Canadians, French, and British today accept Arab immigration, none of that would have happened.
Jina, perhaps you can tell me why the Arabs have such difficulty accepting, or even seeing, their responsibility for the consequence of their own actions?
Esra’a, that is just silly. In Israel, public bigotry against Arabs is illegal and the law is enforced. You may chose to forget that Rabbi Kahane was convicted and sent to jail for it, and his tiny Kach party legally suppressed. On your side, more than 70% of Palestinian voters cast their vote for Hamas, which openly declares its intention to destroy Israel. Hamas, so far from being legally suppressed as Kach was, is the main political party.
Hey really? Then why didn’t this so-called “law” come in question when this happened:
Or when Azmi Bishara (an Israeli Arab) was persecuted by Israelis for wanting human rights for Palestinians?
Oh I know. Maybe because Israeli Arabs don’t enjoy the same rights as you do. So, if Israeli Arabs themselves can’t enjoy such rights - I can only imagine what actual Arabs go through in Israel’s name.
Esra’a, it is so simple that I am embarrassed to have to point it out to you. The Israelis are defending their country, which is a legitimate purpose. Hamas and Fatah are trying to destroy a neighboring country which is not a legitimate purpose.
If the Arabs would stop attacking Israel there would be reprisals and no mistakes in making them. But Arabs never seem able to see the connection between their attacks and the reprisals for them.
Some think that by being the Chosen people By God.,They are justified to do whatever!
I wonder this…why in history have jews been persecuted?
I think they believe that gives them the right to persecute others?
Why is it anti-semitinism so widespread ?
I remember in my scripture/bible classes the israelites freed from the pharoah were descibed as arrogant.
They have played the victims all thru history and have turned into now aggresors yet that mentality of being victims is still stuck blinding many to their own actions.
Jack, the only embarrassing thing here is your mentality that allows you to justify murder. Regardless of the cause, murder is murder no matter WHY it happens. Innocent civilians dying is not something you should justify. The only thing you are highlighting here is your own violence, which I find surprising to say the least!
That’s your problem. That’ everybody’s problem. Each person says, “they started it, and we must retaliate!” Arabs, Israelis, everybody. That alone is why the war has been going on for so long; because of people like you and Tsedek.
Here’s the only thing we should to as a response to violence:
CONDEMN it no matter what the causes are, otherwise you are the ones asking for it yourselves. Justifying murder is a shameful act and only shows how much of a violent person you truly are.
They have no right to do that; it’s downright hypocracy.
All these countries you listed refused assess to the Jews who were fleeing the Nazis, if they had accepted the Jewish immigrants, the Jews would not have had the need to immigrate to the Middle East. I can play the same game.
Ignorance is a bliss, no?
Stop grouping them all into one shit. Iraqis are not Palestinians and Palestinians are not Egyptians and Egyptians are not Moroccans.
I don’t ever remember saying, Arabs are not at fault. Stop using your preprogrammed brain to come to false conclusion. I am not an Arab, Arabs did worse thing to my people than they did to the Jews, so you can stop the victimhood now, because Jews are no longer the victims, they are the perpetrators of the current crimes.
Arab nations are controlled by dictators, dictators who are funded and armed by America and the West. When the West stop meddling in Arab matter and let the people have a say, then we can know what the Arabs want.
Then why did Israel fund and support Hamas?
Jina, a nice reply but it evades the question. If you don’t like taking responsibility for what the Arabs did in the past, how about having them take responsibility for what they are doing today.
Palestinian schools continue to use textbooks which vilify Israel and publish maps which show Israel as non-existent. The Palestinian press, television, and pulpit routinely vilify and demonize Israel. Today, when over a million Arabs live peacefully in Israel, no Jew is safe in Palestinian-controlled territory. Palestinians are so unwilling to consider peace that they refer to Israel as “the Zionist entity”.
Here on this very forum, Wafa of Saudi Arabia vents his antisemitic racism. Presumably this is because he is open-minded and wants peace with Israel?
Jina, you yourself, trapped by the facts of 70% Palestinian voter support for Hamas, find yourself having to invent fantasies that Israel supports Hamas. The Israeli funding of Hamas, that you claim, consisted of Israel and the European Union cutting off all payments to the PA while Hamas runs it. Or does your fantasy not include remembering that?
Of course the ones who are doing the crime has to take responsiblity for what they are doing, this goes for both Jews and Arabs.
And why should I take responsibility for anything Arabs did? Didn’t you not read what I wrote?
Kinda goes with the American notion of Usama was never funded by CIA and Saddam had WMD… when are you going to take responsibility for the mess US and Israel created. You call for the Arabs to take responsibilities, but you don’t want to do it yourself. Shove your hypocrisies up your ass and stop calling everything that moves anti-Semitic just because you don’t agree with it.
Ray Hanina, Israel has Peace Now, Meretz, several Arab parties, the left wing of Labour, and lots of others who are critical of national policy. Where is the equivalent among the Palestinians? Why is there no Palestinian peace movement? To put it in your terms, where are the Palestinian moderates? There aren’t any.
Actually, in my opinion, criticism is, at best, the bare minimum anyone can do to improve a situation; and at worst, totally counterproductive. Israelis and Palestinians have heard so much by now, it’s just become nitpicking at this stage and they don’t process it. Why not focus on what is actually needed — you know, like calming tensions already? Making peace is tough because people are too busy focusing on who is right instead of how to share. Part of the problem is that so many outsiders take sides rather than build bridges.
I don’t get why this has to be such a competition and why it’s so tough to agree that there are two competing and overlapping narratives: 1) Palestinians who have enjoyed being a majority on the land for a long time; and 2) Jews whose collective patrimony, history, tribal identity, institutions, folklore, oral traditions, liturgy, philology, and anthropology are unrivaled on the land.
Everyone’s right and noone’s right at the same time. You’ve got a situation in which the so-called colonialists are purveyors of an indigenous culture and adhere to precolonial institutions whereas the natives are purveyors of a foreign culture and adhere to foreign institutions. That’s screwy and you won’t find that anywhere else in the world. Can we all work together to make peace now?
Jina, I seem to have struck a nerve. I am sorry you have been moved to such language. But I understand the source of your frustration.
When mobs rampage through Palestinian cities screaming, “Death to the Jews!”, it is not a matter of my not agreeing. When people like Wafa claim that centuries of persecution are the fault of the persecuted, it is not a matter of my not agreeing. When murderers of civilians are publicly praised as shaheed martyrs, it is not a question of my not agreeing.
No one is denying what’s happening.
The difference is, unlike you, we aren’t justifying it.
And you are.
That makes you the violent one. No question about it. When someone justifies murder of innocent civilians - that is violence in action.
Want to tell me what that source is? Keeping in mind that I am not a Arab, like I said before and not a Muslim, answer it.
Jina, don’t you know? Anyone who values innocent civilians in Palestine comes from a terrorist source of some sort, it doesn’t matter what your religion or nationality is.
Jina - The source of your frustration is that your are trying to defend an unjust cause. You are a smart guy but you keep finding yourself making feeble or ridiculuous argument.
In my country there are still Southerners trying to defend the Confederacy, which existed as an attempt to preserve slavery. They try to recast the American Civil War as The War of Northern Aggression. They make themselves ridiculous by making up silly arguments.
That is how you found yourself claiming that Israel supports and funds Hamas.
But whoever said above that the argument is fruitless so long as it just reiterates each side’s grievances, was correct. What would be more fruitful would be to discuss what could be changed to change the situation.
What would make Palestinian voters less inclined to support people like Hamas? What would it take for there to be a Palestinian consensus in favor of coexistence with Israel? Please do not bother me with the usual song and dance about the occupation. The violence was going on for forty years before there was an occupation.
Also, I think everybody on every side is ignoring the elephant in the room. Gaza and the West Bank have among the highest birth rates in the world. At the same time, the economy of the Palestinian areas is among the most chaotic and least productive in the world.
For my part I am impressed with the similarities to Northern Ireland. When the birth rate came down and the economy became prosperous, it somehow became possible to make peace. Gerry Brown and Ian Paisley recently sat on the same stage and initiated the new government. Everybody patted each other on the back, particularly they congratulated Tony Blair and Bertie Ahearn. But I am convinced that the real roots of the peace was the decline in unemployment.
I think the immediate sequence between the expulsion of 300,000 Palestinians from Kuwait in 1991 and the outbreak of the Second Intifada within months, was not a coincidence. It illustrates the causal relationship. It also illustrates that the reasons people give for their actions have little to do with the actual reasons.
If I am right, what can the Arabs collectively do to reduce the birth rate and to reduce unemployment in Gaza and the West Bank? As we recently saw reported, the Nablus Stock Exchange is going nowhere but down because of the fighting. It is a spiral. No one will invest because of the fighting. As long as no one invests there will be unemployment and fighting. How can the spiral be broken? Ideas anyone?
Yikes! That’s a lot of spicey meatballs!
Listen, Tsedek, Israel’s government has and continues to do many bad things. I don’t hear many Jewish Americans, who support Israel, openly condemn the hate speech that takes place in Israel.
As for Jack … well, he’s off. Way off. I don;t even know why I am responding to him/her/whatever … Peace Now confirmed that Israel stole land … it’s a fact. And there is a peace movement in palestine, it is one supported by the majority of Palestinians who backed the compromise with Israel (all the while as Israel continued to expand it’s settlements during the alleged peace process).
Stop blaming one side. Blame both and start by blaming your own side …
But then, would you be a moderate? Or just someone who wants to hassle others? It only makes you look bad in my opinion?
Ray Hanania
Ray Hanania — It is interesting that you merely want to reiterate your group folk tales of how badly you and yours have been treated — exactly what you object to so strenuously when others do it. It is a measure of how little you believe your own mythology that you rely on your Israeli dupes for confirmation. My understanding is that that is exactly the sort of hypocrisy that Jina would have you shove up your ass. I suggest you keep your backside covered…..
Ray Hanania — Are you saying that Hamas is a peace movement?
Thanks Jack. You should learn to read. But the problem among extremists is they don’t listen to others, only “yell” in their writing and communications, which is really what you are doing.
Hamas a “peace movement.” You’re obviously an extremist.
As for folk tales, can you list 10 crimes Israel is guilty of committing without also blaming Palestinians. If you can’t, then you are one of the worst kinds of extremists, one who provokes for the sake of hatred.
Thanks for “writing.”
Ray Hanania
Ray Hanina,
If a majority of Palestinians support peace and 70% of them voted for Hamas, then either you believe 30% is a majority or you believe that Hamas is a peace movement. Which is it that you claim? I am sorry to be a believer in extremist doctrines like arithmetic but….
Esra’a - If you read Ray Hanina, you see the problem. If you were right about no one on the Arab side denying the facts, the problem would have been solved generations ago. Ray and others even deny that Muslims are hostile to Israel because Israelis are Jews. How can they even face toward peace, let alone move toward it, when they deny even the most fundamental facts of the situation.
Hi Jack,
Wow! I really enjoyed reading your posts. I was curious - are you a history teacher?
Jack,
No one is denying or ignoring the issue. You are the one insisting that we are apparently so hateful when it’s far from the truth; so who is really feeding the problem, you or Ray? The hate comes from all side - including the Israeli or Jewish side as well. Your approach doesn’t fix anything if you target only one group and ask them to change. Everyone needs to change. All forms of extremism must end regardless of race, religion, or nationality.
As for the source of the hatred - It’s not because Israelis are Jews. Most of it is born because of the human rights violations happening in the name of Israel. Jewish people exist within Muslim countries too - Bahrain, Morocco, Tunisia, et al. Do we attack them? No. We have Jews within our own government. Many Arab Jews are also hostile to Israel because of its practices that violate international law.
Some rather racist comments here.. Ray is a moderator? Israel is a “stolen land”? Is that considered a moderate view here?
Israel is stolen land. What does that has to do with being a moderate? So, a person who denies the facts is a moderate? I think you are confusing the meaning of the term moderate with apologist.
No. I think you don’t know what moderate means. How is viewing Israel as “stolen land” a moderate view? If that’s so, then what’s the extreme view?!
Esra’a how ignorant do you think we are? Mobs run through Palestinian streets screaming “Death the to Jews!”. The official media and schoolbooks are full of the worst and vilest racism against Jews. The Egyptian government controlled press routinely publishes Nazi propaganda like the ‘Protocols of the Elders of Zion’. No Jew is allowed to enter Saudi Arabia.
So far from living peacefully in Arab countries and Iran, the majority of Israelis are people who were expelled from Arab countries and Iran.
Far more Jews were expelled from Arab lands after Israeli independence than Arabs were displaced by the war. (And it is a fact of Israeli politics that those who were expelled from Muslim countries, and their children, are considerably more Likud-nik and less conciliatory toward Arabs than the original Zionists and their descendants. That is called poetic justice.)
More than a million Arabs live peacefully within Israel. No Jew is safe anywhere in Palestinian-controlled territory. Several Jews who have gone there mistakenly have been lynched and murdered.
The standard Arab narrative is that the Occupation caused all the hard feelings. Why were there two waves of prolonged Arab rioting, one in 1929 and again in 1936 in which large numbers of unarmed Jews were murdered. Why did the Palestinians and other Arabs attack the Jews so persistently in 1947-48 that the UN was forced to offer partition?
There was no Israel and no Jew had weapons (the British forbade firearms) until after those attacks.
If the Palestinians were so concerned about their national rights, rather than just hostile to the Jews, why was there no resistance to the Jordanians and Egyptians when they occupied Gaza and the West Bank for 17 years? The resistance began only when the occupiers were Jews
The first thing the Palestinians did when they got control of territories under the Oslo Accords was to violate the accords by destroying every synagogue in their territory and destroying the ancient Tomb of Rachel.
You spoke feelingly about the need to treat each other with respect. Please show a little respect yourself by not insulting our intelligence with such claims.
That is precisely what you are doing.
Jina, repeating a falsehood doesn’t make it true. So far from stealing land, there is a long history of Arab persecution of other Arabs suspected of selling land to Jews.
Jina, you ought to think very carefully about your proposition that immigration is a form of theft. I suspect that most of the readers here are immigrants and you probably are too. If no one has a right to immigrate without racist violence against him, then other immigrant communities also have no rights in their new countries. Or is just Jews that have no right to immigrate?
Courtneyme, thank you so much for the compliment. No, not a history teacher. Just a retired uncivil servant.
Just like the mob runing around American streets screaming “Death to the Arabs”
We are not talking about Arab persecution of Arabs. Of course Arabs slaughtered each other, of course very few ever talk about it even within Arab community. No one here is denying that, but that is not the topic of discussion.
Just because someone did something bad, doesn’t give you or anyone the right to do the exact same thing to someone else.
Not immigration, theft is when you immigrate and kick out the land owners and you live in their house.
Yes, I am an immigrant, I didn’t kick no one out, my parents worked in factories to make money and afford a place to live.
You gotta be kidding me, the other immigrants who come to Western countries don’t fucking kick out the people who live here. You know those Jewish settlements… guess what, they used to belong to Palestinians, Palestinians used to live there. They stole those lands. Come talk to my gf’s granddad. Go visit that house he ones grew up in and you will see a Jewish family living there now.
I’m insulting your intelligence by providing my own opinion? Dude, you need to grow up.
You see guys…
Jack boasts about Israel but doesn’t seem to know a thing about the fact that Arabs within Israel have less rights, especially if they are not Jewish. In Northern Israel, there are no alarm systems or bomb shelters. It’s not a coincidence that this is where the Arabs reside.
Doesn’t know a thing either about the fact that a top rabbi has called for the death of innocent Palestinian people without enough Israelis condemning it in the press - in fact Jack you yourself justified this, and said it’s a “reaction.” In other words, you support genocide. Someone who backs up a rabbi who wants an entire civilian city wiped off is systematic and violent murder. You justifying it makes you an inconsiderate and violent person.
How do you explain the videos of Jewish kids beating the hell out of people who were walking Palestinians to school? How do you explain the anti-Arab propaganda overflowing Israeli blogs and press? How do you explain people like you justifying the cold murder of innocent civilians?
You’re so one-sided to the point where you’re completely blind to reality. You need to acknowledge the fact that Israel IS guilty of human rights violations just as much as the Palestinian terrorist groups are- calling for the carpet bombing of an entire city IS a human rights violation and you justifying it is a violent act that makes you a violent person who is only contributing to the problem you love to whine about so much.
And stop complaining about Saudi Arabia. Its own citizens don’t have rights - you expect others to? There are terrorist organizations operating everywhere. Israel, UK (BNP which calls for the death of Arabs and Muslims), USA, Iran, Palestine - you can’t be so one-sided and assume that the problem is anybody else’s but yours. That just feeds hatre