19
Jun
2007
18 Comments
Breaking News: Man and Woman to be Stoned in Qazvin, Iran
Thursday in the morning, in Tekstan, Qzvin Province, a man and a woman will be stoned in front of the city’s graveyard. The stoning will take place in public and the judge will attend the event and will throw the first stone. Makroumeh Ebrahimi (مکرمه ابراهيمي) , 43, has spent eleven years in Qzvin Prison, alongside with the man with whom she has a child. Reportedly, they have even dug a hole for the stoning. The stoning verdict is reportedly based on judge’s deduction, and not on confession, as Sharia suggests. Their child is now 11 years old and the lady has two other children. The officials has denied the reports but reputable women activists has definitely confirmed it.
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the book the Kite Runner has a scene where people are stoned to death for their crimes against the government, in Afganistan. It is ironic that you should call the man who pronounced the sentence a “judge”. He is a judge in the worst sense of the word, judging people according to his own lights instead of what real justice is, finding a balance bewteen conflicting parts of an argument, most notably when the two sides each have credibility. It is insane that this should be allowed. It is an indictment of our civilization, and an ominous threat to our existence.
This is so disgusting, I can’t believe it’s still happening. In no normal society would this ever take place. Iran seems to be taking more steps backwards with these types of abuses being more common.
Every society thinks it has a right to set up laws to govern themselves. Some infractions merit death, the thinking goes. violating the ten commandments, does that merit death? Thou shalt not kill… are killers to be executed by the state? You call Iran “backward” is not Texas, USA, thus backward, also, who under our Great Decider Bush when he was Texas’ governor, executed over 100 people? but if this reason follows, violate one of the ten commandments, get death, is it proper to execute somebody for taking the lord’s name in vain, for swearing, G*** damn it! or for not honoring your mother and father? For telling your dad to stuff it? Apparently, some violations against the ten commandments, like adultery, are worthy of death. So thinks our esteemed judge, maybe even figuring the cross-cultural condemnations of such misbehavior justify his extremism.
I didn’t call Iran “backwards,” I said it takes step “backwards,” in the sense that it can’t effectively progress with such major human rights abuses currently taking place.
And Iran is not the only country where it occurs, of course.
Yes, the United States bombed Iraq and Afghanistan into the Stone Age, and if the Neocons and Zionist have their way, they will be bombing the Iranians into the Stone Age, even the the youth (and elderly) that are against religious fundamentalism.
somebody once said: “US with its attack on Iraq caused several problems, one of them weakening the root of democracy.”
now, its worth asking Mr. Bush and his advisors to see that any human right abuse these days is justified as ‘US did the worse; ask Iraqis’.
*****
but still I doubt the originality of the story, at least right now, cuz these people on power in Iran are not stupids… though you may think otherwise.
8 years ago I saw a movie of a so-called stoning in Iran, and it was an absurd forgery, cuz the way that woman was being stoned there was explicitly against the ‘religious regulations for stoning’.
Mohammad,
I ask you to refer to the original source. I don’t think this is the proper time to question the authenticity of the news. A prominent women rights’ activist group has published this report. Let’s do all our best to stop it, even though there is a chance that this might be only a false alarm. Please remember, even thinking about this is disgusting.
I do agree.
Mark Says:”Every society thinks it has a right to set up laws to govern themselves.”
Sure. Some of them think that they should do so under conditions that are generally described as democratic. So, you know, the crimes reflect what the public want. Iran is not such a place – as can be seen by the fact that they do not usually carry out most Islamic punishments because it causes such disgust among Iranians. Do you accept there is a moral difference between laws that reflect community values and those that do not?
Mark Says:”Some infractions merit death, the thinking goes. violating the ten commandments, does that merit death? Thou shalt not kill… are killers to be executed by the state? You call Iran “backward†is not Texas, USA, thus backward, also, who under our Great Decider Bush when he was Texas’ governor, executed over 100 people?”
You think that perhaps there is a difference between murder and adultery? No? Sure? You think that perhaps there is a difference between a trial by jury and a single male religiously-trained judge with no appeal? They stone people to death for being raped in the Muslim world. You have no problems with that? America *tries* to be humane in executing people. They fail I admit, but Iran does not. Stoning is a brutal way to die. You think there is no difference?
May I ask if you’re American and so so consumed by self-hate that you cannot judge right and wrong any more or from the Middle East or some other?
Mark Says:”but if this reason follows, violate one of the ten commandments, get death, is it proper to execute somebody for taking the lord’s name in vain, for swearing, G*** damn it! or for not honoring your mother and father? For telling your dad to stuff it? Apparently, some violations against the ten commandments, like adultery, are worthy of death. So thinks our esteemed judge, maybe even figuring the cross-cultural condemnations of such misbehavior justify his extremism.”
Sorry but where in the world is anyone even trying to implement the 10 Commandments? In fact when was the last good faith effort to enforce them? The Puritans tried in America but even they saw no point to most of them and did not execute people for swearing at their parents. So you are trying to compare an obsolete system of religious law that has not been enforced in recorded history (and probably never was) with the enforcement of a similar system that is going on today and would go on on a much wider scale if the Muslims of the world had the vote, right? You don’t think that perhaps you lack a proper sense of perspective here?
Esra’a Says:”I didn’t call Iran “backwards,†I said it takes step “backwards,†in the sense that it can’t effectively progress with such major human rights abuses currently taking place.”
Although it does serve a very useful end, as tragic as it is for the people involved. We all get to see what Islamic law is really like. I too have seen a video of a woman being stoned to death. It is not pretty. It does more to counter the “Islam means Peace” school of Western apologists than anything any neo-Con could dream of doing. I think it also serves to help Iran progress in that they need to reject this brutal system of law and bring their religion and country into the Enlightenment. Seeing what it actually means in practice is a first step – would Khomeini have ever got into power if Iran’s liberals knew this was what would happen?
RandallJones Says:”Yes, the United States bombed Iraq and Afghanistan into the Stone Age, and if the Neocons and Zionist have their way, they will be bombing the Iranians into the Stone Age, even the the youth (and elderly) that are against religious fundamentalism.”
There is no rational basis for claiming that the US has bombed either of those countries into the Stone Age. Afghanistan was barely out of it and since the US invasion its economy has grown. Iraq was ruined by UN sanctions and Ba’athist corruption. So what if the youth and elderly are against religious fundamentalism? It is probably not true (how else do the Mullahs stay in power?) and if it was, it is irrelevant.
i think its great you can come up with an argument against what I wrote. it is evidence of an educated mind. i’m thankful there won’t be people in brown shirts knocking on my door for saying stuff like this, anti-government, anti-ideologue, and dragging me out into the streets for a shot to the back of the head. but how can education change these (very real) threats to freedom everywhere? the more educated you become, apparently the more divorced from the realities on the ground, one of which is that young men are full of piss and vinegar in general and always quite willing to pick up a rifle for a “good” cause. Education does not change human nature, alas. it only lets us look at it long and hard, and maybe comment reasonably accurately on what it is and what it represents. So go for it! unfortunately, this kind of arguemnt does not find its way past the “last comic standing” miniseries on television, or the gratuitous violence of entertainment like “the sopranos.”
HeiGou,
THe United States trained and recruited Muslims to fight its proxy war against the Russians. (Osama Ben Laden was a CIA asset) The defeat of the Russians led to the collapse of the Soviet Union, making the United States the number one superpower or the world. Millions of Afghanis were killed and the countryside was left devestated; the U.S. made no effort to help in reconstruction
The United States helped put Saddam into power and supported him financially and strategically when he was committing his worst atrocites. It was the UNited States that led the demand for the sanctions and was the one that enforced it. It invaded Iraq twice bombing the infrastruture and people.
HeiGou you say “So what if the youth and elderly are against religious fundamentalism? It is probably not true (how else do the Mullahs stay in power?) and if it was, it is irrelevant.”
So you woudn’t mind if a country bombed the united States as punishment for the crimes of the U.S. governmnt?
You are no different from Nazi.
Mohammad, “its worth asking Mr. Bush and his advisors to see that any human right abuse these days is justified as ‘US did the worse; ask Iraqis’.”
No matter how many people use that as an excuse it doesn’t “justify” anything. Even children know that just because Bobby broke a window throwing rocks doesn’t mean it’s okay for you to. Or, as I used to tell my daughter when she was upset over someone’s actions, “It’s not your job to get Bobby into heaven, it’s your job to get YOU into heaven.”
I’ll have to look up the “religious regulations for stoning.” Is there more to it than “pebbles don’t count, but nothing that’ll kill quickly?”
RandallJones Says:”THe United States trained and recruited Muslims to fight its proxy war against the Russians. (Osama Ben Laden was a CIA asset)”
No matter how many times someone tells a lie it does not become true. Osama Bin Laden was never ever a CIA “asset”. He was never ever trained or recruited by the Americans. Keep trying and it will still not become true. It is true that the US gave money and weapons to Afghans fighting to free their country from Soviet control. As they should have. Proudly. So what?
RandallJones Says:”Millions of Afghanis were killed and the countryside was left devestated; the U.S. made no effort to help in reconstruction”
The US did make an effort to reconstruct Afghanistan, but what business was it of theirs anyway? The Left likes to have it both ways on Afghanistan – either America is condemned for interfering, or they are condemned for leaving well alone. It does not matter what America does, we all know that the narrow minded bigots will condemn them. Look up how much aid they gave Afghanistan. But it was not their responsibility anyway.
RandallJones Says:”The United States helped put Saddam into power and supported him financially and strategically when he was committing his worst atrocites.”
Yet again repeating a lie repeatedly will not make it true. The US played no role whatsoever in Saddam coming to power. They may have played a minor role in the Ba’ath Party coming to power (although actually all they seem to have done is give the Ba’athists a list of known Communists). Which is all irrelevant – the parties in power in the Middle East are always and invariably those people the West opposed who came to power by murdering those people the West supported. Iraq is not different from Egypt or Saudi Arabia or Syria in that respect.
As for support, they gave him some photos of Iranian military positions. They sold him some wheat. They did very little else. Again no matter how many times you make this claim it will not become true. The US, for instance, sold just 0.5 percent of his weapons to him. That is three times less than Egypt. Look at the Swedish SIPRI reports.
RandallJones Says:”It was the UNited States that led the demand for the sanctions and was the one that enforced it. It invaded Iraq twice bombing the infrastruture and people.”
Which is interesting but irrelevant. The sanctions were UN sanctions, voted by almost every country in the UN and enforced under a UN mandate. It bombed some infrastructure. But the damage to the economy was done by the sanctions and Saddam. Not America.
RandallJones Says:”So you woudn’t mind if a country bombed the united States as punishment for the crimes of the U.S. governmnt?”
I’d have to wait and see America commit a crime. I’ll let you know when it does.
RandallJones Says:”You are no different from Nazi.”
I disagree but if it were true, you’d still be no different to Stalin. And your insult is an utter irrelevance to anything I have said.
HeiGou, you wrote, “The Left likes to have it both ways on Afghanistan – either America is condemned for interfering, or they are condemned for leaving well alone.”
THere is a difference between helping a country reconstruct and occupying and running the country while support a puppet that does AMerica;s bidding.
I will not be waiting for you to notify me when the United States has committed a crime.
Grumpy,
So why haven’t you applied what you learned as a child to U.S. foreign policy. WHy should the the heads, bodies, and homes of men, women and children be crushed so that the United Staes can conttrol the flow of oil in the MIddle East.
As for the issue of stoning why don’t you consult Jewish scripture, since the Muslims copied stoning form the Jews.
Stoning is found in the scriptures of Islam, Judaism, and Christianity.
Which ones still practice it today?
Grumpy,
There are a small percentage of Muslims who practice it, we just found out the the Yezidi (a pre-Islamic culture in Iraq) have stoned a women recently. http://www.kwrw.org/index.asp?id=87
In India the largest democracy in the world, there are some commit child sacrifice. See http://civillibertarian.blogspot.com/2006/10/horror-of-indias-child-sacrifice.html
I suspect that there are all sorts of barbaric rituals that are going on that don’t get the same kind of media attention that Muslims’ barbarities gets.
What about the crushing of heads, bodies and homes of millions of people with modern weaponry, you find that acceptable?