Comments on: Defeating the Victimhood Mentality: Climbing Out of the Hole We Dug For Ourselves http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/06/29/defeating-the-victimhood-mentality-climbing-out-of-the-hole-we-dug-for-ourselves/ Promoting a fierce but respectful dialogue among the highly diverse youth of the Middle East Thu, 18 Mar 2010 14:32:22 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Barneyhttp://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/06/29/defeating-the-victimhood-mentality-climbing-out-of-the-hole-we-dug-for-ourselves/#comment-103927 Barney Sat, 12 Jan 2008 23:16:33 +0000 http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/06/29/defeating-the-victimhood-mentality-climbing-out-of-the-hole-we-dug-for-ourselves/#comment-103927 If you like Napoleon Hill, have a look at Og Mandino... "...collective paranoia based on the premise that we’re under siege..." We are under siege: from the very people that we wrongly trust to govern us. People are controlled by the politicians and the media; and the politicians and the media are controlled by the global economic barons. It gets quite ugly when you go into after that. Have a look at the Zeitgeist documentary as a starter... "How did that become our reality?" I think Confessions of an Economic Hitman by john perkins does quite well to answer that; as well as other 'so called' 9/11 conspiracy theories. Sadly, most people don't want to know. I agree with you though about putting success literature into schooling syllabus. It would give kids the inspiration to be all they can be: instead being dummed down, living in fear and victimhood. Knowledge, hope, and inspiration are considered dangerous seeds though to those that seek to divide, conquor (enslave) and rule... All the best. If you like Napoleon Hill, have a look at Og Mandino…
“…collective paranoia based on the premise that we’re under siege…”
We are under siege: from the very people that we wrongly trust to govern us. People are controlled by the politicians and the media; and the politicians and the media are controlled by the global economic barons. It gets quite ugly when you go into after that. Have a look at the Zeitgeist documentary as a starter…
“How did that become our reality?” I think Confessions of an Economic Hitman by john perkins does quite well to answer that; as well as other ’so called’ 9/11 conspiracy theories. Sadly, most people don’t want to know. I agree with you though about putting success literature into schooling syllabus. It would give kids the inspiration to be all they can be: instead being dummed down, living in fear and victimhood. Knowledge, hope, and inspiration are considered dangerous seeds though to those that seek to divide, conquor (enslave) and rule…
All the best.

]]> By: Drima @ The Sudanese Thinkerhttp://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/06/29/defeating-the-victimhood-mentality-climbing-out-of-the-hole-we-dug-for-ourselves/#comment-51739 Drima @ The Sudanese Thinker Tue, 03 Jul 2007 05:57:21 +0000 http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/06/29/defeating-the-victimhood-mentality-climbing-out-of-the-hole-we-dug-for-ourselves/#comment-51739 You may contact me if you'd like on the followingsudanesethinker AT yahoo.com You may contact me if you’d like on the following

sudanesethinker AT yahoo.com

]]> By: Lorihttp://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/06/29/defeating-the-victimhood-mentality-climbing-out-of-the-hole-we-dug-for-ourselves/#comment-51731 Lori Tue, 03 Jul 2007 04:19:00 +0000 http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/06/29/defeating-the-victimhood-mentality-climbing-out-of-the-hole-we-dug-for-ourselves/#comment-51731 Drima - I'd be interested to talk to you about this topic. I'm writing a book aimed at thinkers in the ME based on Hill's 17 principles. As you say, the concepts are simple and incredibly powerful. I, like you, believe that it is only through mass individual success that the region can move forward in peace. Drima – I’d be interested to talk to you about this topic. I’m writing a book aimed at thinkers in the ME based on Hill’s 17 principles. As you say, the concepts are simple and incredibly powerful. I, like you, believe that it is only through mass individual success that the region can move forward in peace.

]]> By: Chuck Bartokhttp://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/06/29/defeating-the-victimhood-mentality-climbing-out-of-the-hole-we-dug-for-ourselves/#comment-51328 Chuck Bartok Sat, 30 Jun 2007 12:32:21 +0000 http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/06/29/defeating-the-victimhood-mentality-climbing-out-of-the-hole-we-dug-for-ourselves/#comment-51328 As a Fan of Napoleon Hill, you will enjoy Downloading and listening to past Episodes of our Talk Show Discuusing Hill and Charles Haanel's booksPlease visithttp://focussociety.com As a Fan of Napoleon Hill, you will enjoy Downloading and listening to past Episodes of our Talk Show Discuusing Hill and Charles Haanel’s books

Please visit

http://focussociety.com

]]> By: Drima @ The Sudanese Thinkerhttp://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/06/29/defeating-the-victimhood-mentality-climbing-out-of-the-hole-we-dug-for-ourselves/#comment-51323 Drima @ The Sudanese Thinker Sat, 30 Jun 2007 12:10:05 +0000 http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/06/29/defeating-the-victimhood-mentality-climbing-out-of-the-hole-we-dug-for-ourselves/#comment-51323 Yaaaaay! :) Yaaaaay! :)

]]> By: Nadia (Palestine/USA)http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/06/29/defeating-the-victimhood-mentality-climbing-out-of-the-hole-we-dug-for-ourselves/#comment-51247 Nadia (Palestine/USA) Fri, 29 Jun 2007 23:31:11 +0000 http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/06/29/defeating-the-victimhood-mentality-climbing-out-of-the-hole-we-dug-for-ourselves/#comment-51247 drima, i am in total agreement with you here. drima, i am in total agreement with you here.

]]> By: Drima @ The Sudanese Thinkerhttp://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/06/29/defeating-the-victimhood-mentality-climbing-out-of-the-hole-we-dug-for-ourselves/#comment-51191 Drima @ The Sudanese Thinker Fri, 29 Jun 2007 18:56:06 +0000 http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/06/29/defeating-the-victimhood-mentality-climbing-out-of-the-hole-we-dug-for-ourselves/#comment-51191 Nadia, thanks for your honest reply. I certainly understand where you're coming from regarding the use of this victimhood argument by people who hate us but it all comes down to intent. Plus for me it's easy to write such a post as I don't live in US and I can't relate to the context of being there."i agree with what you say to an extent but in the rest of this series i hope you explore the ways in which colonialism, orientalism and racism factor into our construction of reality and the opportunities that are available to us, because saying that most people don’t have the emotional capacity to shed victimhood and “step up to the challenge” without taking this history into account does us a disservice."I have to disagree with you on this one. Yes racism, colonialism etc. have defintely affected us negatively and they played a role. We were the victims, but just because we were, it isn't a reason for us to develop/keep a victimhood mindset. For example it's been 51 years since we Sudanese gained independence. That's a long time and we could have moved forward but we didn't. Why? Because in a lot of ways, our corrupt and dictatorial governments are responsible (not so much colonialism as it was quite long ago for most countries). They, the sometimes "Western-backed" tyrants that rule us, themselves play a major role in feeding the victimhood mentality by exaggerating outside threats or "threats" to distract us. As you might already know, it works really well.I'm not sure if you read a lot of personal-success literature but it mostly revolves around a simple yet self-empowering concept which goes something like this: you can blame environmental factors which you have little to no control over, or you can simply choose to react to them differently and in a positive way (how you react is in *your* control, hence it's self-empowering).As for collective success, it is the sum of individual successes.PS: knowing you were or you are a victim of something is very different from having a victimhood mindset. ;) Nadia, thanks for your honest reply. I certainly understand where you’re coming from regarding the use of this victimhood argument by people who hate us but it all comes down to intent. Plus for me it’s easy to write such a post as I don’t live in US and I can’t relate to the context of being there.

“i agree with what you say to an extent but in the rest of this series i hope you explore the ways in which colonialism, orientalism and racism factor into our construction of reality and the opportunities that are available to us, because saying that most people don’t have the emotional capacity to shed victimhood and “step up to the challenge” without taking this history into account does us a disservice.”

I have to disagree with you on this one. Yes racism, colonialism etc. have defintely affected us negatively and they played a role. We were the victims, but just because we were, it isn’t a reason for us to develop/keep a victimhood mindset. For example it’s been 51 years since we Sudanese gained independence. That’s a long time and we could have moved forward but we didn’t. Why? Because in a lot of ways, our corrupt and dictatorial governments are responsible (not so much colonialism as it was quite long ago for most countries). They, the sometimes “Western-backed” tyrants that rule us, themselves play a major role in feeding the victimhood mentality by exaggerating outside threats or “threats” to distract us. As you might already know, it works really well.

I’m not sure if you read a lot of personal-success literature but it mostly revolves around a simple yet self-empowering concept which goes something like this: you can blame environmental factors which you have little to no control over, or you can simply choose to react to them differently and in a positive way (how you react is in *your* control, hence it’s self-empowering).

As for collective success, it is the sum of individual successes.

PS: knowing you were or you are a victim of something is very different from having a victimhood mindset. ;)

]]> By: Nadia (Palestine/USA)http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/06/29/defeating-the-victimhood-mentality-climbing-out-of-the-hole-we-dug-for-ourselves/#comment-51177 Nadia (Palestine/USA) Fri, 29 Jun 2007 17:55:41 +0000 http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/06/29/defeating-the-victimhood-mentality-climbing-out-of-the-hole-we-dug-for-ourselves/#comment-51177 i think you are right that we shouldn't define ourselves as victims, and victimhood shouldn't be the primary influence on our identity formation. it is dangerous for us and doesn't help us to change or challenge our situations.but i hear this sentiment used against us by racists quite frequently. (i am speaking from a very american point of view btw) if we bring up any example of unfair, discriminatory, or dehumanizing treatment, there are plenty of groups and individuals who attempt to paint this as us "playing the victim," when really we are just speaking our truths.it makes it difficult for me to make the critiques you make here because i feel that they are already constantly and unfairly made by the people who hate us. also, i think more important than personal success is collective success. while we must do the work within ourselves first if we want to be of use to our communities, i think there should be an emphasis on those communities and not on being like people of other communities.i agree with what you say to an extent but in the rest of this series i hope you explore the ways in which colonialism, orientalism and racism factor into our construction of reality and the opportunities that are available to us, because saying that most people don't have the emotional capacity to shed victimhood and "step up to the challenge" without taking this history into account does us a disservice. i think you are right that we shouldn’t define ourselves as victims, and victimhood shouldn’t be the primary influence on our identity formation. it is dangerous for us and doesn’t help us to change or challenge our situations.

but i hear this sentiment used against us by racists quite frequently. (i am speaking from a very american point of view btw) if we bring up any example of unfair, discriminatory, or dehumanizing treatment, there are plenty of groups and individuals who attempt to paint this as us “playing the victim,” when really we are just speaking our truths.

it makes it difficult for me to make the critiques you make here because i feel that they are already constantly and unfairly made by the people who hate us. also, i think more important than personal success is collective success. while we must do the work within ourselves first if we want to be of use to our communities, i think there should be an emphasis on those communities and not on being like people of other communities.

i agree with what you say to an extent but in the rest of this series i hope you explore the ways in which colonialism, orientalism and racism factor into our construction of reality and the opportunities that are available to us, because saying that most people don’t have the emotional capacity to shed victimhood and “step up to the challenge” without taking this history into account does us a disservice.

]]> By: Drima @ The Sudanese Thinkerhttp://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/06/29/defeating-the-victimhood-mentality-climbing-out-of-the-hole-we-dug-for-ourselves/#comment-51172 Drima @ The Sudanese Thinker Fri, 29 Jun 2007 16:21:51 +0000 http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/06/29/defeating-the-victimhood-mentality-climbing-out-of-the-hole-we-dug-for-ourselves/#comment-51172 Thanks George, I'm glad you liked itPersonal success literature isn't all that bad. Some stuff are just pure garbage but Napoleon Hill is the king of the genre. I absolutely love the guy's books.As for victimhood, everyone is capable of feeling it but to varying degrees. The thing however is that it should not be our mindset by default. It shouldn't at all. Unfortunately for too many people, it is. That's what needs to be changed and it can only truly happen once the social construction of reality can be altered by injecting fresh and unheard of empowering ideas that break down victimhood rather than enforce it. Thanks George, I’m glad you liked it

Personal success literature isn’t all that bad. Some stuff are just pure garbage but Napoleon Hill is the king of the genre. I absolutely love the guy’s books.

As for victimhood, everyone is capable of feeling it but to varying degrees. The thing however is that it should not be our mindset by default. It shouldn’t at all. Unfortunately for too many people, it is. That’s what needs to be changed and it can only truly happen once the social construction of reality can be altered by injecting fresh and unheard of empowering ideas that break down victimhood rather than enforce it.

]]> By: George Entenmanhttp://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/06/29/defeating-the-victimhood-mentality-climbing-out-of-the-hole-we-dug-for-ourselves/#comment-51133 George Entenman Fri, 29 Jun 2007 11:24:09 +0000 http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/06/29/defeating-the-victimhood-mentality-climbing-out-of-the-hole-we-dug-for-ourselves/#comment-51133 I <strong>love</strong> the (to me) creative equating of social construction of reality (which makes sense to me) and personal-success literature (which I tend to dislike). What an interesting idea!As for victimhood, I think this is a very dangerous mindset. It is hard to detect in oneself. The amazing thing about it is that even the most powerful people seem capable of feeling it. Members of the Republican party in my country (USA), for example, actually feel that they are victims of people who want more equality, for example.Thanks for a terrific post!-- ge I love the (to me) creative equating of social construction of reality (which makes sense to me) and personal-success literature (which I tend to dislike). What an interesting idea!

As for victimhood, I think this is a very dangerous mindset. It is hard to detect in oneself. The amazing thing about it is that even the most powerful people seem capable of feeling it. Members of the Republican party in my country (USA), for example, actually feel that they are victims of people who want more equality, for example.

Thanks for a terrific post!

– ge

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