Men not allowed/Women not allowed
I see these two signs very often in public areas in my hometown Riyadh due to the segregation between men and women in this country.
A friend brought my attention to an article written a while ago in Arab news about single men above the age of 16 not being allowed to enter malls and supermarkets on weekends in the capital Riyadh. These areas are restricted to women and families only during weekends.
I will quote some of the Arab news article and add a few comments of my own.
The youngster, who did not want to be named, said the situation was unfair. “We feel wronged because women are the source of problems and can go anywhere they want wearing fashionable clothes under their abayas. They wear provocative clothes and the only people who are punished are the ones who bother them. Young women are to blame,” he said.
This youth mentioned provocative clothes! I wonder what that could be since all women in Saudi Arabia have to wear “abaya” which is a very long black gown that covers every part of a woman’s body except her hands, some might consider it POVOCATIVE as they have mentioned here because some young women decided to make it trendy by adding some colors either on the sleeves or the back of the abaya.
Saudi men have been blaming women for their own mistakes, misbehavior and wrong doing. They can’t even admit to their faults! which lead to them being kicked out of some malls!
I am so sick and tired of listening to men whining and blaming women for almost everything in Saudi Arabia!
Do they think that women have privileges in this country because they can enter shopping malls on weekends? PLEASE…
I will not discuss the rights that we women lack.. since I already have before in a previous post.
Nasir, a university student, said young men are watched wherever they go. “Sometimes security guards treat us like we are criminals. Sometimes they throw us out. So why are we always treated as the guilty party,” he said.
“Virtue commission officials always suspect youngsters. Are we supposed to go everywhere with our families? Is everyone walking in a mall out to molest women? Sometimes shops are crowded with women and so we prefer to stay outside to not annoy them,” he said, adding that the gender segregation system practiced in the Kingdom is full of paradoxes.
I agree, why should they punish all for some mens’ actions/misbehavior? They should have clear rules like they do in UAE, where men get arrested if caught harassing women, their pictures and names are publicly displayed in local papers the next day.
“There is a very big contradiction here. Shop attendants are all foreign men. They are more dangerous than Saudis because they deal with our women … They open stores to men on Saturday until Tuesday. Everyone is busy on these days. We need to go shopping on our days off and on weekends like everyone else,” he said.
I wonder what he meant by foreigners being more dangerous than Saudis? Do I sense some racist accusations here?
Naif Amar said that sometimes when he is turned away at a shopping center, women passersby offer to pretend he is with them. “Some women pity us when they see us outside. So they offer to accompany us to enter as if we are a family. Others take advantage and ask for 50 riyals. We also sometimes ask our sisters or mothers to accompany us. They then leave from a different door because they have some other preoccupation,” he said.
“This is of course risky because members of the commission arrest people walking in shopping malls without their families. We don’t like being treated like criminals and are all the time running away from commission members. We need to feel safe in our country, as it is a part of our rights as citizens,” he said.
I have actually seen young men in malls being treated like criminals just for being young and single, is that considered an offence these days?
Muhammad Al-Dossary, a security guard at a mall in Riyadh, said: “We don’t allow males in on weekends because it is always crowded. But we let them in during the week from Saturday until Tuesday. These instructions are given to us by the mall’s administration and have been advised to by the virtue commission officials.”
Mubarak, a security guard at another mall, said: “Both girls and boys are responsible for what is going on. Girls come to malls wearing tight abayas and inappropriate clothing and let the guys, who have nothing better to do, follow them. This is uncivilized.”
On the other hand women are not allowed into so many other places in the kingdom such as many cafes and restaurants without being escorted by a male family member (a mother can be escorted by her teenage son!).
Women are not allowed into many governmental sectors, they need to hire men in order to finish what ever work is needed. Women are allowed into our public library and museums only a few hours a week…
Both men and women are affected by segrigation in this society. Only recently, it has been announced that stricter measures will be enforced to seperate men and women from each other at banks’ headquarters.
Women bankers feel that this will hurt their careers because it will deprive them of the opportunity to exchange experiences, compete for positions and promotions on equal basis with men.
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What a bizarre problem…however, as an occaisional user of large shopping malls on weekends in Canada, there are many times when I would like to see some sort of good behaviour police swoop down on the hordes of rude, loud, pushy, foul mouthed, music blaring, racist, sexist, completely out-of-control teenagers who turn an otherwise peaceful area into dickhead central! Still, people should be presumed capable of good behaviour, and not have their freedom restricted in such a fashion. I do like the idea of posting the pictures of guys who harass women, and that seems to be a problem throughout the world. The idea that women are guilty of something because they may wear something more daring UNDER their (abayas is it?) is absurd. I mean, you might as well accuse women of being provocative because they are naked under all their clothes! GASP! I may be completely out of touch and old fashioned, but whatever happened to the principle of EXERCISING SOME SELF CONTROL WHILE OUT IN PUBLIC? Is that so hard? Quite frankly, there wouldn’t be any issues with what women wear, where they go and what they do if men could show a little self discipline.
Boys will be boys and girls will be girls. Add young and raging hormones to that and what do you expect. Come-on, we have all been there and acted just as silly, some just more so than others.
I am an American male who has been in Jeddah for 10 years.
Are there problems between the sexes in Saudi? You better believe there is. I have worked in a predominately man’s world most my 56 years, in the oil fields of Alaska and construction, but nowhere else have a seen men as woman and sex crazed as here. I’m not talking about teenagers or young men, but adult Saudi males. What do they all seem to want? Young women or boys of course, as many as they can get and as often as possible.
Put together a few Saudi men and what will they talk about? Sex. 3 out of 4 times, sex.
Sure American men do they same, but we also talk sports, cars, hunting/fishing, building stuff, technology, crazy stories and lies, etc., etc. Contrary to what many women think, not just sex.
I wonder if the segregation of the sexes and strict dress code has anything to do with it.
Here the sight of exposed blond hair will excite men.
On the European Med., no seems to notice a pair of naked breast and thong, with some exceptions of course.
Is the human body something to be ashamed of, or is one of God’s many masterpieces that should be admired, not shunned.
Please do not get me wrong. I do not condone ill mannered boys and men harassing girls and ladies. This should not be condoned in any society. But maybe the Saudis and fundamentalist Islamic should look around and reconsider their attitudes toward women.
Here are few interesting stories and facts.
In traditional Saudi households, it is common for women and men to have separate sitting rooms, bathrooms, or even bedrooms. So some are even segregated in their homes.
A Saudi friend came to me for advice a few years ago about his young 15 year old son. Seems he had discovered girls and wanted to hang with them. The father was very concerned and told be how he had explained to his son that, “… being around women all the time would drag him down to their (womens) level†(whatever that is. I think I know a few women who say exactly the same about hanging out with the boys.) Oh, his solution. He explained that he was buying all the American films he could find so his son could watch a learn all about America (Now that was a scary thought to me.)
Going to a Saudi wedding? Ladies wear your finest. Spent a few hundred Riyals to get your hair and nails done, a few thousand Riyals for a new dress, and shoes, and bags, and …, spend a few more thousand on new gold and jewelry. You will happy to know that you will be able to show off you new beauty to all the WOMEN present. The wedding party … YES, that is segregated too, women in this hall, men in the other, including the bride and groom. Not sure if they can share wedding photos or not. ïŠ
Women drivers. Not safe for women to drive. Maybe get hassled like in the malls. But OK to hire Pakistani or Bangladeshi drive that may have never driven before coming to Saudi to haul around your most precious belongings (wife(s) and kids) in your brand new Suburban, BMW, or Lexus. And driving here is crazy. That’s a whole story by itself, but if I get killed in Saudi, it will be in a car accident, not by a terrorist.
As explained to me by a South African nurse, sad but true. Saudi lady comes to see doctor and has a huge growth on her face. The nurse asked why her husband hadn’t brought her in to see the doctor sooner. Women explains that her husband seldom, if ever, see her face. Nurse is now very curious and being who she is, asked the Saudi lady, “Not even when you make love (does he see your face)â€. “Oh no, not even then. If my husband wants sex, he just walks up behind me, bends me over, pulls up my shirt, and has his way for 3 or 4 minutes and then leaves.â€
On the other hand, things are changing. Women are even issued their own ID cards now.
The Internet with Sat connection (no firewall to censor), Sat TV, Western or European educations, and freedoms experienced by women, and men, in other Gulf States are all contributing to change. Many young Saudis are becoming much more Westernized, for the good or the bad. They dress, act, talk, and want to be like the Americans many seem to hate.
The new King also seems to be more progressive and want greater freedoms granted, but he too must be careful not to move too fast. The House of Saud supported the fundamentalist for many years and has used the power given them often to their advantage to control the populace. As with any monarchy, the first priority is self preservation so they will not upset fundamentalist too much at any given time.
Change will happen. For the House of Saud and the world dependent on Saudi oil, lets hope the change is gradual but steady If not things could become very messy for all and what young Saudi men and women do in the malls of little consequence.
I wouldn’t know about the statistics here!! but it is true that many are sex crazed.
I am sure that segregation plays a big roll in how Saudi men perceive women, yes a sex/baby making machine.
If so, what do you expect? I met a westerner who lived in Riyadh for a while, he was worried that he was turning into a Saudi man! because he kept on staring at covered women and looking for a bit of flesh that might get accidentally uncovered!
This happens in the crem da le crem of Saudi society, like many rich people in other countries.
Latest studies show that only 20% of Saudi population own their homes!
I don’t think 80% of Saudis will spend that much on a wedding when they can hardly own a home these days!!
True, there is some change in this country, but even in the King can’t do much when fundamentalists have such power in the country.
Hey Rasha, I have recently read through a few of your articles pertaining to women’s rights in Saudi Arabia. I found your article on segregation to be interesting and eye-opening. It is hard for me to comprehend the idea of young men complaining about the infringement on their rights, when society has not only grossly infringed on yours (meaning women in general), but their problems (meaning the young men) stem directly from a self-imposed segregation. This brings me to my major point, after reading your articles “Will We Ever Drive,” “Saudi Women… What Rights?”, “Social and Religious Hijab,” and this one, I want to ask “Do you think it would even be possible for the Government to force equality? By this I mean, if the government were to remove the harsh rules on women, would this equality be represented in society? Or does change stem from society, which is then reflected in the government? I am interested to hear your view point
dear american freind i read your article and i very much see your concern regarding the sexual issues in saudi arabia.i being a foreigner too have lived 18 years in saudi arabia which offcourse has been a memorable time.i see the social issues raised by you are slightly misunderstood,saudi arabia is an islamic country dealing with a lot of issues no matter how many times the foreigners raise issues of sexuality becoming a fundamental part of the society ,i must say that it exists in every nation and just because of such nonsense baseless circumstances saudiarabia is a country that will never and i mean it never going to abandon abayas or the black thobe for women from the society no matter how many times the boys get kicked out of malls or how many times a blondie excites them.the people here are not practicing anything weird ,by these laws the women i must say the modern and bold women of saudi arabia not only those who contribute to the economy by running companies playing a vital role but to those restricted to house holds enjoy freedom .they are happy in homes wearing lingeries which very much their men enjoy to those who cover their bodies from head to toe when they leave their homes!!!there are good things about this country too the girls here are never afraid of being raped or caught drunk driving when they leave their homes r comingg home in the middle of the night arrested by an officer.if there are little bad things in the culture then again there are plenty good things too.parents here are not afraid that sometime in the school some crazy kid will open fire,its a great country with strict laws but need to be a little mended.the men here as well enjoy equal freedom they are forbidden to see other women but enjoy a complete view of their wives living in luxury homes in luxury cars.they hire drivers who take their family out on weekends for shopping .as far as sexual harrasment is concerned it is very much being controlled,another thing one of the cases where you stated the african nurse situation such are extreme i mean extrme rare cases,saudi men enjoy complete sight of their women who very much know how to keep their men happy.oneimporatant thing i must mention here that segregation is a part of the culture then again in english schools there is co ed system,co ed system prevails in hospitals where male female nurses and doctors work together so the whole picture given to us raeders by my american friend is true but it puts light on few aspects and clearly exceptional cases .we forget what joy we percieve by such laws when we know that our daughters and wives when leave home will return to us safely.one more thing check the crime level of this country which is close to being nill,issues like sgregation is a part of the culture in which these saudi men and women have been raised it has in no way affected their minds if that was so we would nt be having doctors in this society ,saudi women following the latest of fashions and saudi boys enjoying cafe nights playing cards eating shawarmas and driving nice cars.as far as a sight of a girl is concerned i dont see it as much of a aproblem that needs to be fixed.