Iran and the US: Both guided by God?
Any student of history will be able to point out heights in Iranian history. Our culture is one of the oldest and most renowned in the known World. Our food, architecture, literature, language, people and customs have been admired and written about the World over. Islam has been a major contributor to a great number of these things, no doubt about it. However, the past is the past. How can Islam and the Iranian version of it be compatible with the world as it is today?
As it is playing out in the news it is clearly apparent that nationalistic ambitions are clearly being thwarted by the international community. Whatever the reason may be for pursuing nuclear technology, whether for civilian or military purposes it is clear that Iran is having to run the gauntlet in regards to the international community. It seems to be very clear that Iran needs to make some serious choices about human rights, the WTO, the UN etc.
Any level headed American who has Iranian friends will quickly acknowledge our friendliness, ambition, and respectability. For god sakes our stereotypes are even praising! Everybody thinks we can only be lawyers and doctors.
But why does the micro view of Iranians differ so greatly from the macro? Our country is listed as terrorist sponsoring nation, our leaders are considered firebrand clerics who are undemocratically elected and our President seems to just want to turn the way in the face of historical fact. All of these things are very un-Iranian.
Islamic theocracy will never succeed has reputable form of government and its principles in practice have always failed and ended in a coup or a revolution. This is not far off for Iran. The growing unrest internally and the growing pressure from the outside will eventually lead to a very stark conclusion, one that will not be without blood. With the regime actively recruiting suicide bombers, and the Americans surrounding them on more than 3 fronts, a conflict it reasonably imminent either way if not inevitable.
What really rubs me is that the leaders of both countries think that they are being guided by God. President Ahmadinejad thinks the 12th Imam guides him and Bush is emboldened by his “Passion for the Christ”. What a bunch of crap! What do you think these two prophets would talk about if they were in the same room? Religion is becoming more of a reason to go to war than ever before, whether our leaders want to admit it or not. The Baha’i question is coming to the forefront in more than one Islamic country.
The fact of the matter is no Islamic regime has existed more than a hundred years without being overthrown (aside from the Caliphate of the Ottoman Empire…which was in fact overthrown anyway.) Why is that? With that question comes another: Why has the U.S. and British governments been in continuing governing status for over 200 years without major disruptions, civil wars aside? It’s called respect of law, human rights and personal choice. Any government who violates these rights is not a government, just a regime. When a government tries to cheat the public or provide miss-information it is simply digging its own grave. It is only a matter of time. I feel this goes the same for the U.S. too.
The main issue that I am trying to address is that Islam is not a realistic form of government in the modern day world. It does not have a proven track record of human rights, equality of sexes, diplomacy and freedom of speech. Islam as a faith is at war with itself. It seems it is becoming more of a political thought process than a practiced religion. This is a very dangerous place to be. The answer to this question is deeper than I will attempt to address. However, I welcome any comments and I would love to hear more on the discussion.
I do not claim in anyway to be entrenched or dedicated to my reasoning and I am sure it is flawed. Moreover, I think it is important for us to keep an open mind and stay reserved about what the fellows in power will do. In general I feel that the Machiavellian style of politics that dominates World affairs today needs to be done away with. Lets get working on that by beginning the paradigm shift in thinking.
Peace.
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The Umayyad empire as I recall lasted for about 800 years and was an Islamic regime. The difference was, to my understanding, is that it was a more tolerant regime. Art, science and true debate thrived in the empire. The Umayyad’s made an effort to become the most enlightened empire they had contact with. Whether they succeeded is a matter for historians to debate, but it is that environment that promoted social and economic growth.
Great point Mark. They are one of the examples that are alluded to in the beginning of my post…
Subliminally, you are just as bias toward Iran as many in the so-call West.
There is no way that both leaders can be guided by God. One leader, through lies and deceipt invaded another nation, murder, rape and destroy that nation. The other leader hasn’t done any of that wickedness. And you are trying to equate them. If God is a God of such evil, them true believers are in very bad shape.
You are very wrong.
islam is not like in iran.
Good thoughts. Some comments:
1. The stability of government, or rather the change of government without disruption is the very essence of democracy. As is so evident these days, democracy does not prevent fools and charlatans from being elected. All it can do is to guarantee a process for getting rid of them without civil wars and revolutions.
2. Islam and progress: In English, there is a saying “you can’t eat your cake and have it, too”. You have got to choose between your strict allegiance to religion and progress.
Islam, or rather the Islamic part of the world, was culturally leading as long as they interpreted and applied their religion less oppressively than was the custom within Christianity at the time. I’m not aware of Islamic philosophers being burnt at the stake for thinking freely about scientific questions, as was done even in 1600 in Italy (Giordano Bruno).
Europe only got going once and where the catholic church’s back was broken. Look at the map of Europe even now – the catholic countries are still behind, even now!
The disease of the Islamic world is – fundamentalist Islam. The decline of the USA (can you smell the rot?) is hastened by the resurgence of fundamentalist Christianity.
Look at the recent rise of countries that are not crippled by dogmatic religious fanatics meddling in worldly affairs. In all of Asia, it is the Islamic countries that can’t get moving.
Taitt,
If I seemed to take sides, rest assured I am not. I am simply stating the obvious. Michael makes some great points. Fundamental Islam or fundamental anything is simply regressive in nature and therefor counter productive. The call for people to “return to the way it was” is simply non-sense.
There is enough wickedness to go around. I promise you that. Iran’s hands are just as bloody in other ways.
First, despite what most of my fellow humans seem to believe, God is not up on the bleachers in heaven with a particular country’s flag in hand, cheering them on, nor, in my opinion, any religion. Individuals are all that counts. There is plenty of wickedness on both sides of the US/Iran issue, and, quite honestly, I agree that religious extremism is the root of it. However, the US had a Civil War about 125 years ago, and I don’t think it is really a beacon of democracy for the rest of the world, since it’s two monolithic political parties are quite static. However, I do have some questions about the whole Islam/democracy thing. Doesn’t the Quran say that if a leader is incompetent, then “the people” (I hate that term) have a right to demand he step down, and a new leader appointed to take his place? Isn’t that basically democracy? Isn’t the problem more the current classist and totalitarian structure of religious organizations rather than the religion(s) themselves? There are many countries in the world today that are, for all intents and purposes, Islamic states, but are also modern and enlightened. No nation is without flaw, problems or controversey. I think the only real standard of good government anymore is the ease and degree of accountability it was towards the population (and that’s ALL of the population) it governs.
WOW!
This is good news. I am glad to to stand corrected.
“God is not up on the bleachers in heaven with a particular country’s flag in hand,” lol! what an image
“respect of law, human rights and personal choice. Any government who violates these rights is not a government, just a regime”
good point, good post
Islam is a politico-religeo-social code of
conduct compiled and composed in ancient
time by ancient people. May or may not it was appropriate at that time.Human society evolved enormously through the space of time to modernity.So if state enforce out dated idias of islam on modern societies of our time the ultimate outcome is total regression.
The most undefined variable in this article is God. I guess we should define God at the first place then weight two countrie’s God and see which one is heavier!
About Iran and Islam contribution I am going to disagree with you. Islam as a polity was a contributor to some Arab tribes however at the same time Islam was a destoryer to some other societies like Persia.
Persia was a civilized society in decline and decay before invaded by Arabs (Islamic conquest to Persia). it wasn’t islam contributing to Persia
in fact the achievements of the previous Persian civilizations were to a great extent absorbed by the new Islamic polity.
After Persians defeated in Islamic conquest Persians began engaging in a culture war of resistance and succeeded in forcing their own ways on the victorious Arabs.
Islamic polity could manage some societies and feed them with their non-sense rulings for a while however in Persia it wasn’t acceptable that much, Persians were outrageous and there were lots riots against Islamic governors in Persia.
For example Bernard Lewis in “Iran in history” wrote “These events have been variously seen in Iran: by some as a blessing, the advent of the true faith, the end of the age of ignorance and heathenism; by others as a humiliating national defeat, the conquest and subjugation of the country by foreign invaders. Both perceptions are of course valid, depending on one’s angle of vision.”
I am sure about President Ahmadi Nejad who plays god role! which it reminds me of Henry A. Kissinger who once said “Blessed are the people whose leaders can look destiny in the eye without flinching but also without attempting to play God.”
in my believe no religious theocracy will succeed just because religious beliefs are superstitions not logics but human society needs logic to get organize and survive!
I think so what we shouldn’t do is staying in reserve. why would us stay in reserve instead of asking for far more better from our governments. We expect and deserve a government that works for us. we shouldn’t settle for less than what we deserve.
Fariborz Shamshiri
Great post, great idia. Religeous beliefs
must be scrutinised critically and if it’s
violates human rights more specifically women’s right must be opposed and rejected altogether.Humans have right to defend beliefs are not.
God is always by the side of winner.Very clever guy.