Land For Sale…to Jews
July 25th, 2007
So this bill in Israel , that says that all state owned land given to Israel by the JNF can only be sold to Jews,is making a mess. The Jewish National Fund thinks it is a good idea, the Knesset clearly thinks it is a good idea and a bunch of right-wing nuts are always on board for Jews first legislation. But the rest of the Jewish world doesn’t seem to like it very much. From Mobius to RabbiYoffie, people are not so happy.
I for one think it is silly to consider this a good idea in the first place. What are these people thinking? Fine, the JNF was set up to help Jews buy up land for a state in Palestine. That worked. When they handed over the land to the government of Israel it wasn’t handing it over to the government of the Jews, but of the state of Israel. (In case we forgot there are non-Jews in Israel.) Now the land is Israeli not just Jewish.
Outside of all of these rational issues like the destruction of democracy, bad PR, racism and a few others, we also come to the problem of “who’s a Jew” with such a law. If some shmo with a Jewish mom want to go and buy up some land great. But if a non-Halachic Jew, who lives a Jewish life wants to get a home in the Holy Land, then he is out of luck. Crappy. This law stinks from head to toe. JNF stick to planting trees.
(cross posted at POLJ)
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I’m really happy to see Jews speaking out against this. Kudos to you and Mobius.
“6- Land For Sale…to Jews – Israel’s racist land policies.”
The JNF bought land and is certainly free to sell it to whomever they want, or what is the problem here?
I don’t understand this. Arabs complain about allegedly “stolen” land and then complain about the Jewish organisation that buys land for Jews?
What is the truth here? Do the Jews steal the land or do they buy the land? And why is both wrong?
How can a Jew legally obtain land without being a thief or a racist?
I still think the idea of buying land for Jewish settlers is a morally unproblematic way to obtain land for Jewish settlers.
I am wondering and perhaps just to clarify…
If an Arab organisation in Israel or Germany or whereever was founded and bought land for Muslims to settle on (perhaps in Siberia, it doesn’t matter), would it be racist for them to sell that land only to Muslims?
If that organisation asked a government (perhaps the Russian government) to manage the land they bought, would it be racist for them to demand that the government sell the land only to Muslims?
If I gave money to that fund because I wanted to support Muslim settlers (in this example in Siberia), would I have a right to expect that the money is indeed used to by land for Muslim settlers and cannot be used to buy land, for example, for Mormon settlers?
If I give money to a Christian church for its projects, should I be guaranteed that the money can indeed be used by that church for its projects?
Should money I gave to the (here in this example) Arab land-buying foundation be given back to me if the foundation finds itself unable to distribute the land it bought with my money to Muslims (because that would be racist)?
Does it make any difference whether such a foundation is Jewish and buys land for Jews to settle on?
What about foundations that provide help to blacks or Eskimos or some such group? Is it racist for them to collect money from blacks and Eskimos to distribute to other blacks and Eskimos? Will it become racist if the money is used for buying land and the land is then given to the clients (blacks and Eskimos)? Will it become racist if the land is not given but sold to the clients (blacks and Eskimos)?
What is the difference between a Jewish foundation that buys land for Jews and an Eskimo foundation that buys land for blacks and Eskimos?
It should perhaps be noted that the Israeli government is a caretaker for the land owned by the JNF. The JNF did not hand it over, the government merely administers the land for the JNF.
Either way, whether it is good or bad for the JNF to insist that her land only be sold or leased to Jews is one question. Whether it is racist for the JNF to insist that she sell or lease to whom she wants is another. I don’t think it’s racist. I do think it’s problematic.
It makes it difficult for Israeli Jews and Arabs to feel as if they are equals.
But accusations of racism do not help either. It is difficult for right-wing Israelis to accept that the JNF should sell land to Arabs if in doing so they would be admitting that Jews buying land for Jews is racism.
Ideal solution:
The JNF sells land to any Israeli because that is BETTER.
People refrain from calling the JNF racist because buying land for whomever one wants is not racism, and accusing Jews of racism for activities that are not considered racist when a non-Jew is engaged in them (Mormon organisations buy land and sell it only to Mormons, I have heard), is not very new either.
The problem is when land is bought by a Jew, but the neighbor is an Arab who does not want to sell the land, then under the protection of the IDF the Jew abuses (physical/mental) the Arab, knowing there will not be any serious consequences to his/her action.
RandallJones,
You have nailed the problem, but it is not what you say it is.
The problem is blatant anti-Semitism. You do indeed act as if it was a well-known and undeniable fact that Jews generally abuse their Arab neighbours and that the IDF supports them in doing so. And you probably even believe that nonsense. And, ironically, when a Jew tells you that he doesn’t want to or would harrass an Arab neighbour, you won’t believe it; because your information about what Jews want comes from better sources than actual Jews.
That is of course in stark contrast to my experiences (I shared a university dorm with an Arab in Israel) and Israeli law (I understand land cannot be bought in Israel, only leased). Your story is a complete and utter phantasy, but that is not the problem; the world can deal with one or two liars.
The problem is that the world-wide public is just too eager to hear stories about Jews like yours and they believe it too. And that phenomenom is called anti-Semitism. It is the reason for the Shoah and the reason for why Arabs want to destroy Israel and throw the Jews into the sea.
Well, tough luck. The Jews don’t take it any more. They fight back. And than is called “war” and anybody who prefers peace could just as well now decide to attack the root cause. Look in the mirror. It’s people like you.
People like you make it easy for people like me to support right-wing Israeli positions. We are not dealing with the other side of an unforunate war, we are dealing with evil.
AB-
JNF gave the land to Israel. They may “own” it but Israel (the gov’t) controls it. That would make it state land, and yes it does make it racist to say all of the things you mentioned.
Eskimos, do you know this is a racist term? It’s like calling a black person Nigger. Don’t do it again.
And stick to the topic Andrew, we are not talking about Muslims or Arabs.
And Andrew, you said Palestinians are second class citizens, and defended that. So stop your bigotry.
I’m working for a Jewish organisation, supporting (mainly) Jewish projects. (keep in mind that the money used was stolen from Jews in WWII)
Am I a racist now?
@Peter, that Jewish organisation I just mentioned – was set up together with a European government who controlled it. Is that European government racist?
ow and btw, concerning non-halachic Jews who live a Jewish life: there is still something called like conversion.
It only should not be so damn difficult and time consuming.
[...] Land For Sale…to Jews – Israel’s racist land [...]
Suzanne-
You are using inverted logic. If the org set up to help Jews was set up by a government that say was killing the Jews a few years before there is a different than a group setting up an org for themselves and then handing their stuff (say land) over to a democratic gov’t and then discriminating against the folks who live in the country.
And btw the JDC does good work…own up.
(its not the JDC – but im familiar with them)
Did they (JNF) completely hand it over or did they set conditions? It’s still their land. You should not forget that…
Suzanne, it is racist if the organization you work for or the European government makes a rule that says, we only help Jews and we will refuse help to any other groups. Until we know the organization you work for, I can’t comment further.
Peter Jacob,
The JNF own the land and can lease it to whomever they want. The government manages the land for the JNF but that doesn’t mean that the JNF cannot exercise their rights as owners.
There is nothing racist about that, and neither is it racist if an Arab land owner refuses to sell to a non-Muslim.
Note that the JNF will happily lease land to Mizrahim (Arab Jews). The distinction they make is one of religion, not race or ethnicity.
Would you approve of a Muslim or Christian organisation buying land somewhere for the use of Muslims and Christians (including such ethnic Jews that convert to Islam or Christianity)?
Jina,
“And stick to the topic Andrew, we are not talking about Muslims or Arabs.”
We ARE talking about Muslims and Arabs. How can anybody accuse the JNF of racism and then claim that talking about the alleged victims is off-topic?
And no, I didn’t say that “Palestinians” are second class citizens. And I never defnded that (I also don’t believe it). Please do not put words in my mouth. And please do not accuse me of bigotry based on whatever lies about me you seem fit to make up.
Suzanne,
You are probably racist.
You should work for Mormons or Catholics. I hear they can collect money from fellow Mormons and Catholics and distribute it to Mormons and Catholics without being forced to give it to Lutherans and Jews instead.
Jina,
There are MANY organisations that only help specific people, often members of a specific religion. Do you think any of the “Palestinian” terror funds distribute the monies they collect to Jews (other than in the form of missiles)? Or assuming that there are legitimate “Palestinian” charities that collect money from supporters, do you think they should be forced to give part of what they collect to non-”Palestinians”? Are they all racist or is only a Jewish organisation that does that racist?
Anyway, may I add again that I do not appreciate you putting words in my mouth:
I did NOT say that “Palestinians” are second class citizens.
I did NOT defend that.
I do, in fact, neither agree that “Palestinians” as an Arab people exist (I only believe in “Palestinians” as “inhabitants of Palestine”, without any racial or religious considerations), nor do I agree that those Arab Palestinians who hold Israeli citizenships are second class citizens, nor do I think they should be second class citizens; nor do I defend the idea that they should be second class citizens.
I obviously expect an apology for your misquoting me plus an apology for calling me a bigot since the accusation was based on something that I did not say. (Alternatively, to avoid the second apologuy, find something I did say and call me a bigot for that.)
“Eskimos, do you know this is a racist term? It’s like calling a black person Nigger. Don’t do it again.”
Eskimo, Eskimo, Eskimo.
“Palestinian” is a racist term too. Its definition is “a non-Jewish inhabitant of Palestine”. In Germany using the term “German” to describe a “non-Jewish inhabitant of Germany” is illegal because it is racist.
Please don’t use the word “Palestinian” any more, unless you use it in the inclusive sense (i.e. “all inhabitants of Palestine, even Jews”).
And you might say that it is common usage of the term “Palestinian” to refer only to “Arab Palestinians”. With that I agree. But it is hardly more common than calling the Inuit “Eskimos”.
I know some Jews who are insulted by the common usage of the word “Palestinian”.
If you like political correctness, please realise that it goes both ways.
But now for something completely different…
The reason the word “nigger” should not be used is not because it is racist (it is not more racist than using the word “black” or “coloured” or “people of colour” which signify the same alleged difference between peoples), it is because it was used by slave holders and racists to refer to blacks in a pejorative way. It is because of that that the word “nigger” should not be used, because it would identify the speaker with the scum who used to use the word.
The word “Eskimo”, however, has been and is widely been used by all types of people and not especially racists or KKK members or anyone like that. It was not usually meant to be pejorative or an insult. And that is why I feel free to use it.
It seems that you have not understood why certain words are not used by polite people. You seem to think that is is because all words used in the past have been replaced by new words, words that come from the language of the people called such. But that’s not it. The word “nigger” is not more racist than the word “white”. Both words refer to an insignificant difference between groups of people defined by the words (blacks and whites, in this case). Using the word “nigger” does not make one a racist, and neither does using the word “white” make one a racist. It’s the other way around: it was the racists who used the word “nigger”, hence making it inappropriate for others. The racist makes the word, not vice versa.
The word “German”, if it means “inhabitant of Germany”, is not racist. The word “German”, if it means “non-Jewish inhabitant of Germany”, IS racist.
It is perhaps better to call people by the name they give themselves. So perhaps Eskimos should be called Inuit. And Germans should be called “Deutsche”, and not “Germans”. And “Palestinians” should be called something else, since “Palestinian” derives from the Hebrew for “invader” and referred originally to (presumably Greek) invaders settling in Gaza, and I believ “Arab” is an Aramaic word meaning “people who live in the west” (same root as Hebrew “‘erev” = “evening”)).
And perhaps on a lighter note…
I read an Ephraim Kishin column once where he described an Israeli school class travelling to Czechoslovakia back in the 1960s.
When they arrived in the school they were visiting they were greeted by a chorus of students shouting “Jews! Jews! Jews! Jews! Jews!”.
Their teacher was apparently shocked, but the Israeli students were not.
They didn’t know that the word “Jew” was a pejorative in Europe once and survived as such in eastern Europe after the war.
“But, of course, we are Jews. So what’s the problem?”
LOL!
Man, you should do stand-up.
Actually Andrew, yes you did, or at least the hideous implication is there:
“I have never believed that being treated like a second-class citizen by the victorious power is a human rights violation.” – Thread
You have issues.
“it is racist if the organization you work for or the European government makes a rule that says, we only help Jews and we will refuse help to any other groups.”
Here’s the Web site of the Central Council of Jews in Germany. They collect money from Jews (and the German government) and help Jews and refuse help to any other groups.
http://www.zentralratdjuden.de/en/topic/2.html
As mad as it might seem to you, the Lutherans and Catholics in Germany must collect their own monies to help Lutherans and Catholics.
Although all three do help members of the other groups and each other occasionally, they do have policies that put their own first and it is not illegal for them to do so.
Creeeepy.
Ya every fucking thing is a word… and Eskimo is a racist term, accept it and stop using it instead of proving your racist crap over and over again. Eskimo means raw meat eaters. Ya… that doesn’t sound offensive at all. In Canada, you know, the place where majority of the Inuits live… it’s a racist term… accept it as a racist term and stop using it. You do not define what’s racist and what is not so stop being an asshole.
Then again you are a racist prick, so I don’t except anything less from you. At the same time, you can always goto an Inuit and call him an Eskimo, if you come out without a scratch, I’ll give you a cookie.
About the Palestinian thing, you don’t define what Palestinian is, your not god and you are not an authority on the issue. Stop making a fool of yourself. And Esra’a provided the link to what I said about you.
If you have any free time, please go die, you’ll be doing the Jews a favour.
Really funny to know that the average idea here is that one cannot chose what to do with your own possessions. That I only use the bit of my money on my own family, makes me probably an egoist bastard… but if i chose to do so, it’s my own business. Is it not?
Or do you let people party in your house every night? Or, wait, let other people buy a room in your house because otherwise you might be a racist?
Guess that’s not the case, aah?
And btw Jina. The organisation I’m referring to. It’s even worse. They are using part of the money which was stolen from them during WWII.
Concerning that Palestinian issue in the comments:
May I quote Golda Meir:
“There was no such a thing as Palestinians. When was there an independent Palestinian people with a Palestinian State? It was either southern Syria before the First World War and then it was a Palestine including Jordan. It was not as though there was a Palestinian people in Palestine considering itself as a Palestinian people and we came and threw them out and took their country away from them. They did not exist.”
Summarizing a simple truth by a Jewish Palestinian herself (Palestinian as in an inhabitant of the Palestinian Mandate – not as in Israeli Arabs nowadays, nor as the people who call themselves “Palestinians” nowadays)
And an important question I have:
Why is there no outrage towards Jordan who took 80% of the Palestinian Mandate – “stealing” thus 80% of Palestinian land?
(PS: personally i don’t mind to see a Palestinian state erected (thank you Romans), but the irrational and biased fuss against Israel just pisses me off)