Justice for Darfur
Those of you who know me know I’m much of a believer. I think I’ve even been called a self-hating Jew on this very forum. But I must say that the time between Rosh Hashanah and Kippur serves a purpose of quiet contemplation in my life. It’s a time for me to come to an understanding with my conscience. This does not only mean introspection, but also a deep reassessment of my place in the grand scheme of things in the universe.
This year, again, I find that I live in a world I sometimes don’t like or understand. The mass killing in Darfur is a stain on the conscience of the world, a world that has turned its head for too long.
I write to you today full of rage but also of hope.
This Sunday, as part of the project 24 hours for Darfur, we will be screening video messages across from the UN headquarters in New York. Please check out the video project and sign the petition.
On Friday September 21, UN Secretary General will convene the “Darfur Contact Group” of 17 leaders to help set the agenda for Darfur’s peace talks. This is our best hope yet for voices to triumph over violence. Sign the petition below, forward it to friends and demand that our leaders commit to securing a fair and lasting peace for the people of Darfur. We hope to have 50,000 signers by this Sunday and potential for 100,000 by Sept 21.
Please, also sign the petition at www.avaaz.org/en/darfur/
Thanks. Shana Tovah and Ramadan Kareem to everyone.
Join the Conversation
This is some really great stuff Galit, thanks for posting.
Thanks for posting.
Signed and forwarded.
Word. But don’t be so down, with people like you around you should feel hopeful.
If you really want to make a difference, you should focus on reforming the United Nations. To expect an organization which seats dictators side by side with democracies to defend human rights is only fooling ourselves. It’s really that simple.
gary
I’ve lost all hope in the UN. I can’t see them being really influential anytime soon.
Once upon a time the world consisted of nearly all dictatorships and no United Nations. Today it consists of a mix of dictatorships and democracies, plus a barely functional global organization called the United Nations. Some day the world will be 100% democracies and the UN will as a consequence be more democratic as well. It’s the natural progression of civilization. And it’s inevitable. And it’s a good thing for human rights. But it won’t happen without a push from the people. I think we should focus on democratic reform of the UN to help push the rest of the world along. And while some of you on this forum disagree, I haven’t heard anyone voice a better solution. Yes, I agree that democratic reform needs to come from within a country, but AT LEAST let’s not interfere by SUPPORTING these dictatorships from without. That should be the first resolution of a new United Nations…don’t work AGAINST democracy
gary
More like, democracies ripping their civilians off, lying to them, and then supporting other dictatorships behind their backs.
Okay, that’s just the USA.
Maybe we should encourage others to be more like Sweden and Norway (assuming their democracies are functional, I rarely ever hear of problems over there, unless it has to do with immigration and the occasional crime.)
Esra,
Absolutely agree.
gary
Esra’a,
Norway and Sweden. Are you daft. Many countries exist in peace because we (US) have picked up the tab with our tax dollars. Without the US in the cold war Norway and Sweden would be Societ Sattelites today. I paid into their existance.
Not everyone in the US believes we are lied to etc. I’ve had a safe and secure life because of our Federal Govt’s, military expenditure and political apptitude.
Why shouldn’t the US support foreign dictatorships if it benefits our Country? I don’t see foreign countries worried about the US, one looks out for oneself. The world is a bit of a dangerous place to play simply on the emotional level.
I’ve found most societies create their own environment. We may assist that or influence it but in the final analysis most ME countries reap what they sow. Iraq/Afghanistan not withstanding as we are at war there.
The US gives more aid than any other nation, we’ll assist in many ways but we are not responsible for every home grown dictator, theocracy and simply screwed up Govt. in the ME.
I suspect the locals are resp. for that.
You remind me of many liberals that cry over the conditions, the inhumanity, the savagery within our prisons and why can’t we fix that.
Who creates the society within a prison? The prisoners do because they are mostly ‘criminals’and they do the same thing in prison that they do on the street. Abuse people and themselves.
I’m afraid the US is not resp. for all of the ills of the ME and I’m afraid I don’t feel resp. for their self inflicted wounds.
If we leave Iraq tomorrow the Sunni’s and Shia and Kurds would begin a genocide that would make the present situation look like a kids game.
That, of course, would be blamed on the US. We made all of those people hate each other by inventing hamburgers and video’s. They don’t have issues going back years and years it’s all because of Disneyland.
If this sounds a bit bizaar it’s because I’ve never seen a people so willing to wear the mantle of victim, to take no responsibility for their station or circumstance, to live in a make believe world as those in the ME.
Your civilizations are thousands of years old and ours is just a few hundred and you can’t get your shit together and that’s our fault.
Esra’a, if you think it sucks somewhere then go there and do something.
You’re whinier than I thought.
This, to anyone with compassion, is an obvious answer. But I guess I have to spell it out for you:
It endangers the lives of millions of innocent people. It’s a question of morals, humanity, and ethics. Would you mind if I pay someone to shoot you in the face because I get to score some points in securing natural resources? Wouldn’t you be ticked off when a government that so obviously abuses the most basic human rights receives billions of dollars in aid despite all that it’s guilty of? It’s downright hypocrisy, and it’s costing us a lot of blood. We’re sick of it.
That’s kind of a stupid thing to say. I do not usually waste time responding to people with a superiority complex.
NEWSFLASH! You should’ve thought of that before you invaded. I hope your government learned its lesson.
Pay for my tickets and I will, k?
Patb you are exaggerating beyond belief and putting words in other people’s mouths while being an annoying racist. No one here even implied that you or your country should be held responsible for our ills, please learn how to read and refute criticism more constructively before bragging about yourself.
Esra’a,
Normally I don’t get so whinny but I get tired of your victim status.
“Costing us lot’s of blood” the last I checked Bahrain was doing quite well, selling oil, being the playground for the Saudi’s on their weekend and an ally of the US.
I do believe our method of Govt. to be superior. Freedom of the real kind is rather sparce in the ME.
Actually, I’d not have voted to invade Iraq, I’d have left Saddam in charge to counter balance the Iranians but that’s a moot point.
If we were really the monsters you envision we’d just destroy Iraq and keep the oil wouldn’t we. We could actually easily do that but you know, we wouldn’t do that, our people wouldn’t allow that. We have this thing about rebuilding places, allowing the people suffrage etc.
Esra’a I’ve been to all of the places I’ve discussed as I do something and don’t just flap my jaws as you do. K’
Murad,
I was responding to one individuals specific comments.
Pot calling the kettle black.
Costing us, as in, the region, neighboring countries, our families in such countries as well as the looming threat of war each time we turn our backs and find the US supplying us with weapons. “Here guys, use these, we don’t mind you killing each other at all!”
Millions of dead bodies. Real smooth.
You flap your jaws each time you get an opportunity to act all mighty and superior. I wonder if your jaws ever get tired?
Gentlemen,
I want to explain something to you that may make my whinniness understood.
I had a Saudi friend tell me once how much he disliked the US Govt. etc. yada yada yada but he liked Americans. As if the two were separate.
He would bad mouth his Govt all day long and I figured out the disconnect.
He did not associate with his Govt. and took no offense as the Saudi people and their Govt. are separate.
He did not understand that I did associate with my Govt. I feel my Govt. is a representation of myself, it’s personal, like family and we (Americans) take it personnaly when it is constantly badmouthed.
I vote in every election but do not elect every official. I email my reps on issues and they respond to me individually. I am a part of the system.
“More like, democracies ripping their civilians off, lying to them, and then supporting other dictatorships behind their backs.
Okay, that’s just the USA.”
Fun little off hand remarks like that piss me off.
Maybe I’m just touchy today, it happens.
Esra,a,
You find the US supplying you with weapons. We just give them to you? Your country doesn’t ask for them, seek to buy them? So, that too is our fault. We arm you and then you use the arms because we sold them to you?
I don’t remember the Saudi’s saying ‘don’t worry about Saddam invading Kuwait, we’ll handle it ourselves, we can protect ourselves’…Do you think we went into SA uninvited, hell no, they were scared to death of invasion and couldn’t wait for the US military to arrive. It was rather unusual as they had a hard time remaining superior (that SA thing you know about) in attitude when they realized how weak they actually were in the face of a neighbors aggession.
“Millions of dead bodies”, what does that mean? Would that be the millions of dead Iraqi/Iranians or Kuwaitis from your internal ME wars? Or are we discussing the millions that will die if we leave Iraq soon? Maybe the people Saddam killed indescriminatly (Shia/Kurd).
As I’ve said Esra’a I’ve been to Iraq, Kuwait, SA, Afghanistan and other places to act and not just talk. What have you done besides ‘blog’? Nothing I suppose and probably don’t plan on it.
Have you ever considered a reading comprehension class?
I can see exactly why Murad labeled your post as an exaggerating one. You took what I said way of context, made it all about you, and then complained about it instead of actually arguing the point. Typical victimhood mentality, and then you call us the victims.
The truth is indeed bitter and hard to swallow.
Therein lies your problem:
You think because you read my words, you know absolutely everything about me.
You think because you visited very few countries of this region, you know absolutely everything about it.
Well, you are wrong. And a racist asshole, too.
So, please don’t waste much of our time, and find another blog to harass with such insulting ignorance and brutish misunderstanding.
This is hilarious. Patb thinks he’s a hero because he wasted his life sitting around with a gun and an oversized army suit in numerous deserts following orders of a corrupt government.
If that is your definition of contributing to humanity patb, then I really do pity you. Please find something more worthwhile to do with yourself. Considering your numerous misinformed comments all over this place I suggest going back to college.
Esra’a,
Ok, back on thread. Where does Bahrain stand on Darfur? What has your country done in that respect?
Where does Bahrain stand on Iraq/Afghanistan? Has Bahrain, with it’s huge per capita wealth, assited in any way thru it’s own systems or organizations.
What has Bahrain done to assit the Palestinians? To ease the suffering of the poor there?
No, this is not a question about what my country does. I know very well what it DOESN’T do, and that’s invading other countries via lies and for the sheer sake of personal gains and self-importance. For one, we have never declared war on anybody, and that’s as far as I am concerned. Nothing else is comparable, so turning the tables is completely irrelevant.
Patb
Because it suppresses democracy in those countries. Do you feel that it doesn’t? Or that the people in these countries don’t deserve democracy?
gary
Gary,
I wouldn’t bother with the ignorance and disrespect of people like Patb, who never care about the humanity and well being of other nations but are proud to admitting that they’re the only ones who deserve to live in peace and security. These are the same people who justify the idea that their worth and value is more important than anybody else’s in the world, so as long as it’s not their people dying like the ones in Iraq or US backed coups, then everything is alright.
His comments here actually go against the basic rule of our comment policy, where we clearly note that racism is not allowed. This includes racist implications and the insistence of being “superior” to others, as well as referring to anybody else as “crap” and “backwards.” Or the ever so famous, “you wouldn’t be here if it wasn’t for us,” if it applies to stable nations elsewhere such as the ones in Northern Europe.
Unfortunately we have too many people like that roaming around exercising their jaws with nothing at all sensible and productive to contribute, that’s partly why the world is where it is today. Severe stupidity and outrageous racism.
Before we start applying democracy elsewhere we also need to focus on fixing these types of sick mentalities, so that said democracies can actually function and survive.
path, wrote “If we were really the monsters you envision we’d just destroy Iraq and keep the oil wouldn’t we. We could actually easily do that but you know, we wouldn’t do that, our people wouldn’t allow that. We have this thing about rebuilding places, allowing the people suffrage etc.”
The United States has already destroyed Iraq and intends to occupy the country until it has control of the oil.
The United States had helped Saddam Hussein into power and supported him, financially and strategically, when he was committing his worst atrocities.
Galit,
WHy is there not much concern for the genocide in the Congo and surrounding countries, where there have been a larger number of deaths and rapes.
Is it because the United States, Israel, and Europe benefit from the diamonds, other natural resourcesm, and sales of weapons that the suffering of black Africans in the COngo does not matter as much as the death of those of Darfur?
RandallJones you said “The United States has already destroyed Iraq and intends to occupy the country until it has control of the oil.”
I won’t argue the first point but would you like to wager on the second? The US isn’t trying to find a way to stay, they’re trying to find a way to leave.
They would certainly not leave before installing a pro-US government that is ready to give up anything (i.e, oil) to the US. You can still have a country on a close leash from abroad.
Wow. too much to respond to at once.
Patb. Wow this bit is just too priceless
Why shouldn’t the US support foreign dictatorships if it benefits our Country?
Don’t wanna stay off topic but yikes, man, do you really need an answer besides the fact that it is just wrong? Speaking purely in terms of US national interest (which sounds like the one criterion by which you deem foreign policy good or bad) has the US learned nothing from its sketchy alliances? To fight the cold war it supported such nice guys as The Taliban, Ben Laden, Pinochet, Batista, Schtroessner…need I go on? Saddam was the US darling and received countless bombs to fight Iran (and then used US bombs to kill god knows how many Kurds…) Seriously, this policy of funding ‘crazies’ to fight other ‘crazies’ is not just wrong in ethical terms, it’s also badly tough-out and has proved counterproductive a zillion times.
On to the topic at hand, to answer RandalJones question:
Don’t we wish we could fight all the injustices in the world….You’re right about the Congo, it deserves way more attention.
I however disagree with your reasoning about why Darfur is getting more global media attention than the Congo. Here’s what I think. The atrocities in Darfur are easier to label ‘genocide’ since they have been more concentrated both in space and time. It can be simplified as one group, with the tacit approval of the government, destroying another group. The conflict in the Congo has been “slower burning” , it’s lasted years, with actors coming and going, and it involves many regional powers. All these rebel armies being financed by other African countries. Most people like a ‘good guys’ and ‘bad guys’ story, we’re all suckers for a simple narrative. The great lakes conflict is way more complicated and the solution much harder to agree upon. This does not mean that inaction is acceptable, it just explains the lack of momentum of all the great lakes peace movements.
And yes, there are always the profits. But that is also true in the case of Sudan. I think we all know that the US and Europe (umm and China!) profit from Sudanese oil and also have chummy relationships with Khartoum.
My turn to ask. What could we do in the great lakes? I’d love to hear what you think because that situation is so royally screwed.
By the way guys, the rally at the UN totally rocked.
I’ve had 3 responses deleted by someone. Either the webmaster or a 3rd party. As all were political in nature maybe big brother in the country this originates in. Hard to respond in that fashion.
Dictators, Presidents for life, whatever, we and every other country ends up dealing with them in some way or fashion, ‘supporting’ was a poor choice of words. We deal with Chavez, Musharef, Mubarak and the Kings or whatever in the mid east. That is practical and unavoidable.
We don’t do this in a vacuum either as your countries do to wether overtly or covertly.
The example of Saddam is an example, no Randal, we did not bring Saddam to power he did that himself. We supported him in his war against Iran and I for one wish he were around today and do a rerun. Having two enemies (Iran already an enemy and Iraq a potential one)killing each other is just fine by me.
Murad,
I was a soldier for 33 years but my last two years in Afghanistan (05-07) were as a teacher for the Afghan Army teaching (I know you’ll cringe) ethics in government as a soldier, treatment of civilians, consideration of others (tribal issues), computer skills etc. I truley enjoyed it and think we made some headway especially as it came to tribal relations.
Guys, if we just wanted to ‘steal oil’ why didn’t we just remain in SA with our army when it was there and put up a US Oil for sale sign.
Finally, believing one form of Govt. or a society is better than another is not racist. Why is that racist? I’m not a believer in relativism. You guys have a big chip on the old shoulder.
patb,
Unfortunately ‘supporting’ is a very accurate choice of words, becaue that’s EXACTLY what the US does. Did you catch this recent foreign policy decision by Bush?
Look closely…tell me if you see any money going to dictators. I can point them out of you like.
gary
Oops…let me try that link again…
Good grief…this forum software needs to be replaced. Just cut & paste this instead…
http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/09/06/news/06oxan-militaryaid.php
path,
The U.S. helped to bring Saddam into power. See http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/51/217.html
The United states sold weapons to both sides of the Iran-Iraq war and gave false intelligence to both sides of the conflict. Nobel Peace Prize winner Henry Kissenger said something similar to what you said about wanting to see them kill each other. See http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=15&ItemID=2292
You were training Afghans? WHy didn’t the U.S. use AMerican soldiers instead of recruit foreign Muslims extremists (like Osama Ben Laden) to fight its proxy war against the Russians? We wouldn’t be in the mess we are in today.
You ask why the U.S. doesn’t stay in Sausi Arabia. THere are other countries that rely on Mideast oil (like China, INdia) who may not like the way the U.S. handles things.
Anyway the U.S. doesn’t need to occuppy S.A. THe Saudis invest hundreds of billions (or is it trillions?) of dollars in the United States. In additon, the U.S. sells millions of dollars of weapons to the Saudis each year. The Saudis don’t have the qualified personnel to use some of the weaponary, which is why it had to rely on the U.S. to defend it when Saddam invaded Kuwait.
THe United States buys more of its oil from Cananda and Mexico, each. But they hardly invest as much money as the Saudis in the United States.
Galit,
The number one reason that Darfur is getting all this attention is because certain organizations like to repeat over and over again that Arabs are killing black Africans. Not that they care about these black Africans, otherwise they would have given as much attention to the Congo were many more have been raped and/or killed.
Some taken up the cause of Darfur so they don’t have to think about the genocide in Iraq, others have taken up the cause so they can demonize Arabs who have nothing to do with the violence in Darfur.
An important step in solving the violence in the Congo, Darfur and any other region is to look at all factors that are contributing to the violence. The “Save Darfur” activists, politicians and much of the mainstream media are not doing this.
Are you aware of the role of the United States and other democracies in fueling the violence in the Congo and Darfur? Here are some links about this which I put under a different topic at http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/09/11/remembering-the-other-911s/#comment-68214
Randal,
That site you refered too about the US putting Saddam in power is a nut job. He thinks the CIA has done everything including undermining the Pharoahs. If you’d research Saddams life history you’ll find the truth.
I agree with Henry K on the Iraq/Iran war. Having surrogates fight your wars makes sense.
I believe OBL would be an issue today with or without the Afghan/Soviet conflict. His strong Wahabi sense of things would dictate that and the Kalipha needs building regardless.
The Saudis invest in the US because it’s a safe business deal, nothing more nothing less. I just mentioned that because folks constsntly accuse us of wanting to ‘steal’ oil even though we pay just like everyone else.
I don’t get your point about Darfur, it’s not bloody enough to take note of? I don’t think it has redirected any attention away from Iraq either. Please define the ‘genocide in Iraq’ comment, who is committing genocide on whom?
Hahahahahah.
Okay I’m done.
No wait, hahahahaha.
Randal,
FYI, I grew up in Latin America, the playground of the US, I know their role in screwing up other people countires…. I’m a political scientist by trade, and a lefty one at that. Yeah, the US and Europe’s policies in Africa and elsewhere are shit. Yes, I remember Allende and Lumumba and the f”ing alliance for progress. I actually read the Kissinger Chile documents if you ever want to discuss them. But honey, not everything is a conspiracy. Hundreds of thousands of Darfuris are dying. I’ve met some. I’m this fight for them, not to fuel some sort of evil Arab myth. In the same way that I stood up when Serbs were massacring Muslims and with the same fierceness that I oppose the Iraq war.
You never answered my question. Yes we agree, Europe, the US (and hey all those Russian arms dealers, and corrupt African leaders too) are to blame for the Congo conflict. In my line of work, I run into this all the time. We know who is to blame, at least partially ( like I said the conflict is way too complex) but WHAT THE F ARE YOU SUGGESTING WE DO? I am a pacifist BUT not passivist. Passively complaining about how the US oppresses everybody is fine for Frisbee throwing hippies or conspiracy theorists in their mother’s basement. I’m talking here about finding a democratic antidote to their disgusting version of globalization by passing from complaining to action, from the finding culprits to finding solutions. So I ask you what the world can do to save the people of the Congo region. And the US caused it all is not an answer. It’s a long and painful footnote.
And patb, I’m not even gonna argue with you…but can you please not call us gentlemen…seriously, there are ladies in the house.
Galit,
Great summary of the situation. My own summary is that democracy is our best hope. And just because democracies sometimes behave badly doesn’t disprove the basic concept that rule by the people is better than rule by thugs. So how do you reign in the misbehaving democracies? You hold them all to rules and standards. You create a forum where they hold each other accountable. Something like this:
http://www.UnitedDemocraticNations.org
Until we recognize on a global level that democracy is the best system we have, we will just muddle along…one Darfur after another.
gary
Galit,
I appologize ladies as I am unfamiliar with some of your female names, I thought I was blogging with mostly males but it does clear up a few things for me.
patb,
You never replied to my last post to you.
gary
Galit
How is your petition supposed to help? People coming from countries that are doing the same kind of atrocities as Sudan, sign a petition demanding something has to be done about Sudan.
Why don’t we in the West set the example and put our war criminals on trial? It should be easier to do because we live in countries that are democracies. Right?
Gary,
I just got tired of having my responses deleted. They were political opinions and I never use profanity etc.
Patb, quit lying. The comments of yours that were deleted were personal, insulting, and against our comment policy. If you want your comments to stay, be decent, otherwise stop writing here.