Comments on: Accountability and trial of war criminals http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/10/05/accountability-and-trial-of-war-criminals/ Thinking Ahead Sat, 11 Feb 2012 20:46:46 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: farah http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/10/05/accountability-and-trial-of-war-criminals/#comment-13630 farah Sun, 07 Oct 2007 16:26:23 +0000 http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/10/05/accountability-and-trial-of-war-criminals/#comment-13630 hi gary... i said before that the amnesty laws in some cases are important if they followed the announcement of the truth and the rights of the victims were recognized..but this is not the case of lebanon..where the authority has decided to let go with the truth..and the victims are still victims... as for south Africa, Argentina...etc...we are learning from the transitional justice procedures applied in these countries. Tamra said:"I am still however unclear about who exactly these war criminals are, or is this the whole purpose of the petition? To finally allow us to discover who they are? And will this only include Lebanese officials, or will other foreign government officials that played a role also be on this list? Because I think it would have to include all that were involved". in fact tamara..there are names and there are documented incidents where victims or their families recognized the criminals...in fact many lawsuits where presented for the judiciary but many where refused under the pretext of the amnesty law...so by annulling it many other names will be revealed...among these names we canmention GEAGEA (the leader of the lebanese forces who wwas givin in 2005 an amnesty law), (nabih Berry...the leader of Amal milicia)these are men in force...other persons from the lebanese forces for exemple confessed their crimes.but thousands of other didn't cause nothing oblige them to do so..because of the amnesty that protects them... we are collecting on collecting witnesses testimonies...and slowly many other criminals will appear and among them of course many foreign government officials. gary: "Is this an isolated problem? Or is there a great root cause to be found involving those ruling Lebanon?" i don't know if i understood ur question clearly..so can u reformulate it? cheers farah hi gary…
i said before that the amnesty laws in some cases are important if they followed the announcement of the truth and the rights of the victims were recognized..but this is not the case of lebanon..where the authority has decided to let go with the truth..and the victims are still victims…
as for south Africa, Argentina…etc…we are learning from the transitional justice procedures applied in these countries.

Tamra said:”I am still however unclear about who exactly these war criminals are, or is this the whole purpose of the petition? To finally allow us to discover who they are? And will this only include Lebanese officials, or will other foreign government officials that played a role also be on this list? Because I think it would have to include all that were involved”.

in fact tamara..there are names and there are documented incidents where victims or their families recognized the criminals…in fact
many lawsuits where presented for the judiciary but many where refused under the pretext of the amnesty law…so by annulling it many other names will be revealed…among these names we canmention GEAGEA (the leader of the lebanese forces who wwas givin in 2005 an amnesty law), (nabih Berry…the leader of Amal milicia)these are men in force…other persons from the lebanese forces for exemple confessed their crimes.but thousands of other didn’t cause nothing oblige them to do so..because of the amnesty that protects them…
we are collecting on collecting witnesses testimonies…and slowly
many other criminals will appear and among them of course many foreign government officials.
gary:
“Is this an isolated problem? Or is there a great root cause to be found involving those ruling Lebanon?” i don’t know if i understood ur question clearly..so can u reformulate it?
cheers
farah

]]> By: Gary (Guest author) http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/10/05/accountability-and-trial-of-war-criminals/#comment-13629 Gary (Guest author) Sat, 06 Oct 2007 22:04:53 +0000 http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/10/05/accountability-and-trial-of-war-criminals/#comment-13629 In rereading the petition, maybe I'm misinterpreting it. Is it in fact calling for the same approach as SA? gary In rereading the petition, maybe I’m misinterpreting it. Is it in fact calling for the same approach as SA?

gary

]]> By: Gary (Guest author) http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/10/05/accountability-and-trial-of-war-criminals/#comment-13628 Gary (Guest author) Sat, 06 Oct 2007 21:59:36 +0000 http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/10/05/accountability-and-trial-of-war-criminals/#comment-13628 <blockquote>We are learning from similar experiences applied in different regions of the world such as Argentina and South Africa.</blockquote> As I recall the South African situation was a success because it <strong>did</strong> give amnesty, but only to those who admitted their crimes. It sounds like this petition is asking for prosecution as well, which is not the same approach. Here's more on the SA system... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truth_and_Reconciliation_Commission_%28South_Africa%29 gary

We are learning from similar experiences applied in different regions of the world such as Argentina and South Africa.

As I recall the South African situation was a success because it did give amnesty, but only to those who admitted their crimes. It sounds like this petition is asking for prosecution as well, which is not the same approach. Here’s more on the SA system…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truth_and_Reconciliation_Commission_%28South_Africa%29

gary

]]> By: Esra'a http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/10/05/accountability-and-trial-of-war-criminals/#comment-13627 Esra'a Sat, 06 Oct 2007 21:45:32 +0000 http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/10/05/accountability-and-trial-of-war-criminals/#comment-13627 Hi Tamara, here is the text that will soon be added to the petition (the extended version is already there in Arabic, but we are facing some trouble adding the English version as our petition system is only recognizing one language at a time): <blockquote><strong><center>The petition is our main instrument</strong></center> This petition is part of a big campaign launched on the 14th of April, 2007, called "The people's tribunal." The people's tribunal has three main goals: * We want to expose the truth and find those responsible for war crimes committed during the Lebanese civil war. * We want the government to pay reparations for the victims and to declare the destiny of the missing so that their families can inherit property. * We believe that only through finding the truth can we find true reconciliation so that sectarian war is not repeated. The people's tribunal came as a natural response to what we considered as ignorance on the part of the judiciary in dealing with lawsuits against war criminals. Am amnesty for all crimes committed during the war was agreed as part of the Taif Agreement that put an end to hostilities in 1990. It has been criticized by most human rights organizations as it covers up war crimes and crimes against humanity - such as the massacres and killings based on identity cards - perpetrated by the Lebanese warlords who are currently part of the government, and some in the opposition. The people's tribunal is the result of many years of struggles against the Lebanese ruling class who want to undermine our collective memory and to dissimulate the truth about the crimes they committed during the civil war. It is a new experience for Lebanese civil society. We are learning from similar experiences applied in different regions of the world such as Argentina and South Africa. We started collecting experiences and testimonies of witnesses and victims. These testimonies will be reviewed by legal specialists to determine the juridical responsibilities of the cases. Our goal is to push the authorities to cancel the general and the private amnesty laws in order to make the accountability process possible, to determine responsibilities, to declare publicly the destiny of the kidnapped, and to give reparations to the victims or their families. We are saying that from now on, our security and our lives are not to be toyed with. We are here to know what really happened and it is our right to know. For several years the response of the government to the demands of the families' committee was to say that "all the disappeared were killed so there's no need to search for them." The families were accused of "exhuming the momory of the war that the Lebanese want to forget" and of awakening the "sensibilities of the war." We the undersigned call for rescinding all general amnesty laws that have passed in Lebanon since the Taef agreement, for the accountability and trial of war criminals, and uncovering all the truths and facts surrounding our present in order to preserve our collective memory. No reconciliation without accountability, Fairness for the victims of war.</blockquote> Hi Tamara, here is the text that will soon be added to the petition (the extended version is already there in Arabic, but we are facing some trouble adding the English version as our petition system is only recognizing one language at a time):

The petition is our main instrument

This petition is part of a big campaign launched on the 14th of April, 2007, called “The people’s tribunal.”

The people’s tribunal has three main goals:

* We want to expose the truth and find those responsible for war crimes committed during the Lebanese civil war.
* We want the government to pay reparations for the victims and to declare the destiny of the missing so that their families can inherit property.
* We believe that only through finding the truth can we find true reconciliation so that sectarian war is not repeated.

The people’s tribunal came as a natural response to what we considered as ignorance on the part of the judiciary in dealing with lawsuits against war criminals.

Am amnesty for all crimes committed during the war was agreed as part of the Taif Agreement that put an end to hostilities in 1990. It has been criticized by most human rights organizations as it covers up war crimes and crimes against humanity – such as the massacres and killings based on identity cards – perpetrated by the Lebanese warlords who are currently part of the government, and some in the opposition.

The people’s tribunal is the result of many years of struggles against the Lebanese ruling class who want to undermine our collective memory and to dissimulate the truth about the crimes they committed during the civil war.

It is a new experience for Lebanese civil society. We are learning from similar experiences applied in different regions of the world such as Argentina and South Africa.

We started collecting experiences and testimonies of witnesses and victims. These testimonies will be reviewed by legal specialists to determine the juridical responsibilities of the cases.

Our goal is to push the authorities to cancel the general and the private amnesty laws in order to make the accountability process possible, to determine responsibilities, to declare publicly the destiny of the kidnapped, and to give reparations to the victims or their families.

We are saying that from now on, our security and our lives are not to be toyed with. We are here to know what really happened and it is our right to know.

For several years the response of the government to the demands of the families’ committee was to say that “all the disappeared were killed so there’s no need to search for them.” The families were accused of “exhuming the momory of the war that the Lebanese want to forget” and of awakening the “sensibilities of the war.”

We the undersigned call for rescinding all general amnesty laws that have passed in Lebanon since the Taef agreement, for the accountability and trial of war criminals, and uncovering all the truths and facts surrounding our present in order to preserve our collective memory.

No reconciliation without accountability, Fairness for the victims of war.

]]> By: Tamara (Syria & UAE) http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/10/05/accountability-and-trial-of-war-criminals/#comment-13626 Tamara (Syria & UAE) Sat, 06 Oct 2007 21:31:12 +0000 http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/10/05/accountability-and-trial-of-war-criminals/#comment-13626 Thank you for clarifying a few things for me. I agree and support what you are doing. I am still however unclear about who exactly these war criminals are, or is this the whole purpose of the petition? To finally allow us to discover who they are? And will this only include Lebanese officials, or will other foreign government officials that played a role also be on this list? Because I think it would have to include all that were involved. Thank you for clarifying a few things for me. I agree and support what you are doing. I am still however unclear about who exactly these war criminals are, or is this the whole purpose of the petition? To finally allow us to discover who they are? And will this only include Lebanese officials, or will other foreign government officials that played a role also be on this list? Because I think it would have to include all that were involved.

]]> By: Gary (Guest author) http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/10/05/accountability-and-trial-of-war-criminals/#comment-13625 Gary (Guest author) Sat, 06 Oct 2007 20:22:56 +0000 http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/10/05/accountability-and-trial-of-war-criminals/#comment-13625 farah, I undertand that the scope of this petition is to force those in Lebanon to recend the amnesty laws. Is this an isolated problem? Or is there a great root cause to be found involving those ruling Lebanon? gary farah,

I undertand that the scope of this petition is to force those in Lebanon to recend the amnesty laws. Is this an isolated problem? Or is there a great root cause to be found involving those ruling Lebanon?

gary

]]> By: farah http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/10/05/accountability-and-trial-of-war-criminals/#comment-13624 farah Sat, 06 Oct 2007 19:32:17 +0000 http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/10/05/accountability-and-trial-of-war-criminals/#comment-13624 well in this particular petition we are interested in amnesty law that was issued in lebanon in 1990 and 2005 that covers the criminals who committed war crimes and crimes against humanity during the civil war in 1975.who are the direct responsible for these crimes. has been criticized by most human rights organizations including Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch who consider that war crimes and crimes against humanity, such as the massacres and killings based on identity cards perpetrated by the Lebanese warlords who are currently in government, cannot be covered by amnesty. but in some cases amnesty law is essential if it came after the announcement of the truth and after realizing the justice and the reconciliation ...but this is not the case of Lebanon... i hope that this petition will lead others to do the same and to defy the criminals wherever was the country they belong for. cheers farah well in this particular petition we are interested in amnesty law that was issued in lebanon in 1990 and 2005 that covers the criminals who committed war crimes and crimes against humanity during the civil war in 1975.who are the direct responsible for these crimes. has been criticized by most human rights organizations including Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch who consider that war crimes and crimes against humanity, such as the massacres and killings based on identity cards perpetrated by the Lebanese warlords who are currently in government, cannot be covered by amnesty.
but in some cases amnesty law is essential if it came after the announcement of the truth and after realizing the justice and the reconciliation …but this is not the case of Lebanon…
i hope that this petition will lead others to do the same and to defy the criminals wherever was the country they belong for.
cheers
farah

]]> By: RandallJones http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/10/05/accountability-and-trial-of-war-criminals/#comment-13623 RandallJones Sat, 06 Oct 2007 17:47:32 +0000 http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/10/05/accountability-and-trial-of-war-criminals/#comment-13623 farah Wrote, <em>"it’s not just for the lebanese people because not only lebanese who where killed and kidnapped during this war, there are syrians, palestinians, lebenese, french etc..this is first.second we need to collect as much support as we can from human rights activists and interested people from all over the world in order to make a pressure on the lebanese authority."</em> Do you want to remove amnesty just for Arab war criminals or are you also interested in removing amnesty from possible American, Israeli, and European war criminals as well? farah Wrote, “it’s not just for the lebanese people because not only lebanese who where killed and kidnapped during this war, there are syrians, palestinians, lebenese, french etc..this is first.second we need to collect as much support as we can from human rights activists and interested people from all over the world in order to make a pressure on the lebanese authority.”

Do you want to remove amnesty just for Arab war criminals or are you also interested in removing amnesty from possible American, Israeli, and European war criminals as well?

]]> By: farah http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/10/05/accountability-and-trial-of-war-criminals/#comment-13622 farah Sat, 06 Oct 2007 17:10:42 +0000 http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/10/05/accountability-and-trial-of-war-criminals/#comment-13622 hi all... first Tamara: we are talking here about the criminals of the lebanese civil war that started in 1975. who killed and kidnapped...and caused the disappearance of 17000 person who have an unknown destiny till now. and thousands of handicapped and displaced.In 1990 an agreement (Taef) ended the Lebanese civil war.The new authority, composed by the leaders of the lebanese militias, liberated itself from its dirts of the past and gave itself <strong>an amnesty law</strong>. this amnesty law is protecting the ruling class today and prohibiting us from knowing the truth, the destiny of the kidnapped especially, and bringing the justice for the victims. Murad and Nadia: it's not just for the lebanese people because not only lebanese who where killed and kidnapped during this war, there are syrians, palestinians, lebenese, french etc..this is first.second we need to collect as much support as we can from human rights activists and interested people from all over the world in order to make a pressure on the lebanese authority. Gary: this petition is part of a big campaign called the "public tribunal"launched 13 of april 2007 by a certain number of nongovernmental organizations, supported by the Committee for the Families of Kidnapped and Disappeared, under the slogan “Yes to the annulment of the amnesty law – Justice for the Victims". and one of the activities of this tribunal is to collect testimonies of victims. and to answer ur question: this petition is part of a hard fieldwork and conferences and networking.a seldom petition won't bring change but it helps awaring and bringing out our cause and gaining support by the big nbre (as Esra' said before). this petition will be distributed in universities and schools too in lebanon. Murad once more: thanks for ur comment...we will work on clarifying more and more the issue.it's our first petition..and we are working on developing it. cheers farah hi all…
first Tamara:
we are talking here about the criminals of the lebanese civil war that started in 1975. who killed and kidnapped…and caused the disappearance of 17000 person who have an unknown destiny till now. and thousands of handicapped and displaced.In 1990 an agreement (Taef) ended the Lebanese civil war.The new authority, composed by the leaders of the lebanese militias, liberated itself from its dirts of the past and gave itself an amnesty law. this amnesty law is protecting the ruling class today and prohibiting us from knowing the truth, the destiny of the kidnapped especially, and bringing the justice for the victims.
Murad and Nadia:
it’s not just for the lebanese people because not only lebanese who where killed and kidnapped during this war, there are syrians, palestinians, lebenese, french etc..this is first.second we need to collect as much support as we can from human rights activists and interested people from all over the world in order to make a pressure on the lebanese authority.
Gary:
this petition is part of a big campaign called the “public tribunal”launched 13 of april 2007 by a certain number of nongovernmental organizations, supported by the Committee for the Families of Kidnapped and Disappeared, under the slogan “Yes to the annulment of the amnesty law – Justice for the Victims”.
and one of the activities of this tribunal is to collect testimonies of victims. and to answer ur question: this petition is part of a hard fieldwork and conferences and networking.a seldom petition won’t bring change but it helps awaring and bringing out our cause and gaining support by the big nbre (as Esra’ said before).
this petition will be distributed in universities and schools too in lebanon.
Murad once more:
thanks for ur comment…we will work on clarifying more and more the issue.it’s our first petition..and we are working on developing it.
cheers
farah

]]> By: Gary (Guest author) http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/10/05/accountability-and-trial-of-war-criminals/#comment-13621 Gary (Guest author) Sat, 06 Oct 2007 14:58:25 +0000 http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/10/05/accountability-and-trial-of-war-criminals/#comment-13621 Oh, and I'll say it one more time - I want you to succeed. Activism on the internet is really the ONLY hope we have. After that it's just politics as usual, sports games, and utter silence. gary Oh, and I’ll say it one more time – I want you to succeed. Activism on the internet is really the ONLY hope we have. After that it’s just politics as usual, sports games, and utter silence.

gary

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