Comments on: Fractionalizing Iraq- Is this a good move? http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/10/13/fractionalizing-iraq-is-this-a-good-move/ Thinking Ahead Sat, 11 Feb 2012 20:46:46 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Dawoud (Bahrain/Japan) http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/10/13/fractionalizing-iraq-is-this-a-good-move/#comment-13930 Dawoud (Bahrain/Japan) Sun, 14 Oct 2007 15:42:50 +0000 http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/10/13/fractionalizing-iraq-is-this-a-good-move/#comment-13930 I will also add to please catch CNN's "Late Edition" today to listen to Senator Lindsey Graham R-SC and to former National Security Advisor Zbigniew Brzezinski (Carter Administration) current . Both people give a different point of view. I am more inclined to side with Mr. Brzezinski, who is calling the American forces in Iraq a "colonial" occupation force. Iraqis by far resent an occupying force. When the USA says it is not an occupying force, it's hard to support that when we have build up in physical infrastructure throughout Iraq and in the Green Zone. Here's an article that published Mr. Brzezinski's message to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee back on 01 February 2007. I think you will find it addresses many things. Check this out: <a href="http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/001916.php" rel="nofollow"></a> If it doesn't show up, then this is the site url- http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/001916.php I will also add to please catch CNN’s “Late Edition” today to listen to Senator Lindsey Graham R-SC and to former National Security Advisor Zbigniew Brzezinski (Carter Administration) current . Both people give a different point of view. I am more inclined to side with Mr. Brzezinski, who is calling the American forces in Iraq a “colonial” occupation force. Iraqis by far resent an occupying force. When the USA says it is not an occupying force, it’s hard to support that when we have build up in physical infrastructure throughout Iraq and in the Green Zone.

Here’s an article that published Mr. Brzezinski’s message to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee back on 01 February 2007. I think you will find it addresses many things.

Check this out:

If it doesn’t show up, then this is the site url- http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/001916.php

]]> By: Dawoud (Bahrain/Japan) http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/10/13/fractionalizing-iraq-is-this-a-good-move/#comment-13929 Dawoud (Bahrain/Japan) Sun, 14 Oct 2007 14:53:58 +0000 http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/10/13/fractionalizing-iraq-is-this-a-good-move/#comment-13929 Tamara, I am with you on this. The people who are in the seats of power are by far not qualified to run anything. They all sit in the green zone, funnel money out of Iraq into their own accounts and businesses and that's just about it. I do not believe the world is cut and dry, and that any plan, choose one, always leaves someone short-changed. The best we can hope for is one that addresses many of the problems and leaves concessions open to address those items that could not be addressed initially. I do not condone the vision of the New Middle East. It's written by people who have no idea what it is like to live here, work here, suffer through the day, laugh thorugh the day, all of the nuances and the business at hand that goes with being Iraqi, Saudi, Iranian, Jordanian, Bahraini, Qatari and so on and so forth. I believe that the Iraqi people must be given the chance to manifest their own destiny, and if the USA and Iran can agree to work together as guides, but not the rule makers, that is even better. Tamara, I am with you on this. The people who are in the seats of power are by far not qualified to run anything. They all sit in the green zone, funnel money out of Iraq into their own accounts and businesses and that’s just about it. I do not believe the world is cut and dry, and that any plan, choose one, always leaves someone short-changed. The best we can hope for is one that addresses many of the problems and leaves concessions open to address those items that could not be addressed initially. I do not condone the vision of the New Middle East. It’s written by people who have no idea what it is like to live here, work here, suffer through the day, laugh thorugh the day, all of the nuances and the business at hand that goes with being Iraqi, Saudi, Iranian, Jordanian, Bahraini, Qatari and so on and so forth. I believe that the Iraqi people must be given the chance to manifest their own destiny, and if the USA and Iran can agree to work together as guides, but not the rule makers, that is even better.

]]> By: Tamara (Syria & UAE) http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/10/13/fractionalizing-iraq-is-this-a-good-move/#comment-13928 Tamara (Syria & UAE) Sun, 14 Oct 2007 14:47:13 +0000 http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/10/13/fractionalizing-iraq-is-this-a-good-move/#comment-13928 hahaha... I feel your fustration. I'm not much of a believer in conspiracy either. The problem is the labelling of a 'theory' or even 'fact' sometimes as a 'conspiracy' automatically delagitimizes it, leaving us clueless about where the truth ends and the conspiracy begins. hahaha… I feel your fustration.

I’m not much of a believer in conspiracy either. The problem is the labelling of a ‘theory’ or even ‘fact’ sometimes as a ‘conspiracy’ automatically delagitimizes it, leaving us clueless about where the truth ends and the conspiracy begins.

]]> By: Gary (Guest author) http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/10/13/fractionalizing-iraq-is-this-a-good-move/#comment-13927 Gary (Guest author) Sun, 14 Oct 2007 14:38:29 +0000 http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/10/13/fractionalizing-iraq-is-this-a-good-move/#comment-13927 Tamara, I was just being sarcastic. I realize they technically had a plan...I was just voicing my frustration with it all. It's hard for me to tell where incincerity leaves off and simple stupidity begins. I'm not much of a believer in conspiracy, so I tend to think it was mostly stupidity. He is after all "the decider". gary Tamara,

I was just being sarcastic. I realize they technically had a plan…I was just voicing my frustration with it all. It’s hard for me to tell where incincerity leaves off and simple stupidity begins. I’m not much of a believer in conspiracy, so I tend to think it was mostly stupidity. He is after all “the decider”.

gary

]]> By: Tamara (Syria & UAE) http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/10/13/fractionalizing-iraq-is-this-a-good-move/#comment-13926 Tamara (Syria & UAE) Sun, 14 Oct 2007 13:45:06 +0000 http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/10/13/fractionalizing-iraq-is-this-a-good-move/#comment-13926 Gary, Here is a <a href="http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=NAZ20061116&articleId=3882" rel="nofollow">link</a> discussing the idea of a 'New Middle East'. It is up to the reader to decide how seriously they wish to take it. Dawoud, I support any decision that is representative of at least the majority of the Iraqi people, not the people currently in power, in the farce that is the current Iraqi government. And as far as Nadia's comments and links show, this would not be a decision supported by a majority. If this process would really be as sweet as is made out, then wonderful, but I really think there would be terrible consequences that are not being considered or are rather being ignored. And that would be tragic. Gary,

Here is a link discussing the idea of a ‘New Middle East’. It is up to the reader to decide how seriously they wish to take it.

Dawoud,

I support any decision that is representative of at least the majority of the Iraqi people, not the people currently in power, in the farce that is the current Iraqi government. And as far as Nadia’s comments and links show, this would not be a decision supported by a majority.

If this process would really be as sweet as is made out, then wonderful, but I really think there would be terrible consequences that are not being considered or are rather being ignored. And that would be tragic.

]]> By: Dawoud (Bahrain/Japan) http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/10/13/fractionalizing-iraq-is-this-a-good-move/#comment-13925 Dawoud (Bahrain/Japan) Sun, 14 Oct 2007 08:37:41 +0000 http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/10/13/fractionalizing-iraq-is-this-a-good-move/#comment-13925 If the Iraqi people want to move towards autonomy with three regions that are self governing but united under the national banner of 1 Iraq, then let them. If Mr. al-Hakim is sincere uniting all Iraqi peoples to work together and truly seeks the cooperation of Iran and the USA to help lay down the foundation, then this is a good thing. The Iraqi refugees, as long as they are guaranteed safety and non-persecution after being repatriated back could be the key role models on how Iraqi people CAN peacefully coexist and work together. I don't see them all of the sudden reverting back to old sectarian violence if they've had a taste of peaceful coexistence (outside Iraq). Attack/invasion of Northern Iraq by the Turks would be an attack on all the Iraqi people. A united Iraq would fight against the Turkish. Mr. al-Hakim is smart. Aligning with both Iran and the USA would add protection. Who knows, Mr. al-Hakim may be the peaceful mediator between Iran and the USA which could lead to further defusing of tensions between the two nations. At this point, I don't care who it is or where they are from if they can get these two nations to drop the accusations and hostilities and work together in friendship. I have no faith in the current Baghdad government. The different ministries I dealt with are just corrupt and self-serving and do wear different faces, depending on if it is in their favor. I don't trust them enough to even turn my back on them. The Ministry of Oil, aka The Southern Oil Company, makes approximately $1 million a day from the offshore oil terminals "A" and "B". These are cash transactions, so it is hard to keep track of. It was designed this way purposely by the Ministry. That money has not gone to anybody but the coffers and the pockets of the Baghdad government and the self-serving officials. All the while, the sectarian violence rages and none of that money is being used to fund rebuilding projects or to repair basic services like electricity, running water, sewage treatment or in micro-loans to families and local business. At the same time, this Baghdad regime is looking for handouts from other nations and is depending on others to solve those problems. Yes, the USA is just as guilty for letting this happen, and is guilty for trusting the various ministers who have shown one face and then in the background were attending to their own personal agendas. So, if Ammar al-Hakim can effect change in a positive direction, he has my vote. A dove of peace is a welcome creature, regardless of where it is from If the Iraqi people want to move towards autonomy with three regions that are self governing but united under the national banner of 1 Iraq, then let them. If Mr. al-Hakim is sincere uniting all Iraqi peoples to work together and truly seeks the cooperation of Iran and the USA to help lay down the foundation, then this is a good thing. The Iraqi refugees, as long as they are guaranteed safety and non-persecution after being repatriated back could be the key role models on how Iraqi people CAN peacefully coexist and work together. I don’t see them all of the sudden reverting back to old sectarian violence if they’ve had a taste of peaceful coexistence (outside Iraq).

Attack/invasion of Northern Iraq by the Turks would be an attack on all the Iraqi people. A united Iraq would fight against the Turkish. Mr. al-Hakim is smart. Aligning with both Iran and the USA would add protection. Who knows, Mr. al-Hakim may be the peaceful mediator between Iran and the USA which could lead to further defusing of tensions between the two nations. At this point, I don’t care who it is or where they are from if they can get these two nations to drop the accusations and hostilities and work together in friendship.

I have no faith in the current Baghdad government. The different ministries I dealt with are just corrupt and self-serving and do wear different faces, depending on if it is in their favor. I don’t trust them enough to even turn my back on them. The Ministry of Oil, aka The Southern Oil Company, makes approximately $1 million a day from the offshore oil terminals “A” and “B”. These are cash transactions, so it is hard to keep track of. It was designed this way purposely by the Ministry. That money has not gone to anybody but the coffers and the pockets of the Baghdad government and the self-serving officials. All the while, the sectarian violence rages and none of that money is being used to fund rebuilding projects or to repair basic services like electricity, running water, sewage treatment or in micro-loans to families and local business. At the same time, this Baghdad regime is looking for handouts from other nations and is depending on others to solve those problems. Yes, the USA is just as guilty for letting this happen, and is guilty for trusting the various ministers who have shown one face and then in the background were attending to their own personal agendas.

So, if Ammar al-Hakim can effect change in a positive direction, he has my vote. A dove of peace is a welcome creature, regardless of where it is from

]]> By: Gary (Guest author) http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/10/13/fractionalizing-iraq-is-this-a-good-move/#comment-13924 Gary (Guest author) Sun, 14 Oct 2007 05:00:41 +0000 http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/10/13/fractionalizing-iraq-is-this-a-good-move/#comment-13924 MyTwoCents, <blockquote>the least humiliating move for the US</blockquote> Oh, I think we're way past that point. gary MyTwoCents,

the least humiliating move for the US

Oh, I think we’re way past that point.

gary

]]> By: Gary (Guest author) http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/10/13/fractionalizing-iraq-is-this-a-good-move/#comment-13923 Gary (Guest author) Sun, 14 Oct 2007 04:58:15 +0000 http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/10/13/fractionalizing-iraq-is-this-a-good-move/#comment-13923 Tamara, <blockquote>I do not want to see America’s version of a ‘New Middle East’.</blockquote> Vision? There was actually a vision? I must have missed the memo... gary (A US citizen just counting the days, minutes & seconds until the next election) Tamara,

I do not want to see America’s version of a ‘New Middle East’.

Vision? There was actually a vision? I must have missed the memo…

gary
(A US citizen just counting the days, minutes & seconds until the next election)

]]> By: MyTwoCents http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/10/13/fractionalizing-iraq-is-this-a-good-move/#comment-13922 MyTwoCents Sun, 14 Oct 2007 03:11:01 +0000 http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/10/13/fractionalizing-iraq-is-this-a-good-move/#comment-13922 Fractionalizing Iraq- Is this a good move? Does it matter is it's a good move for Iraq? It's probably the least humiliating move for the US, and therefore... Fractionalizing Iraq- Is this a good move?

Does it matter is it’s a good move for Iraq? It’s probably the least humiliating move for the US, and therefore…

]]> By: Danial http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/10/13/fractionalizing-iraq-is-this-a-good-move/#comment-13921 Danial Sun, 14 Oct 2007 02:51:38 +0000 http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/10/13/fractionalizing-iraq-is-this-a-good-move/#comment-13921 <blockquote>India and Pakistan… Do you think Kashmir is the reason for the constant tension? If we want to go back even further into time, then why not give Pakistan and northern India and Afghanistan to Iran? Besides, it was all part of the Persian Empire long ago. Think about it. Does that make sense? Ok… Let’s go further. If Iraq splits up, then we may as well put effort into freeing Tibet from China.</blockquote> It's a lot more complex than Kashmir. I assure you of that. Add the breakup of East and West Pakistan to the mess as well. What happened during the '71 war in Bangladesh makes the Serbs look like benevolent conquerers.

India and Pakistan… Do you think Kashmir is the reason for the constant tension? If we want to go back even further into time, then why not give Pakistan and northern India and Afghanistan to Iran? Besides, it was all part of the Persian Empire long ago. Think about it. Does that make sense? Ok… Let’s go further. If Iraq splits up, then we may as well put effort into freeing Tibet from China.

It’s a lot more complex than Kashmir. I assure you of that. Add the breakup of East and West Pakistan to the mess as well. What happened during the ’71 war in Bangladesh makes the Serbs look like benevolent conquerers.

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