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	<title>Comments on: Israel: Egypt + Hamas = Terror. I Say, Egypt + Hamas = BULL SHIT!</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/10/23/israel-egypt-hamas-terror-i-say-egypt-hamas-bull-shit/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/10/23/israel-egypt-hamas-terror-i-say-egypt-hamas-bull-shit/</link>
	<description>Thinking Ahead</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 11 Feb 2012 20:46:46 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Daniel434</title>
		<link>http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/10/23/israel-egypt-hamas-terror-i-say-egypt-hamas-bull-shit/#comment-14075</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel434</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Oct 2007 20:52:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/10/23/israel-egypt-hamas-terror-i-say-egypt-hamas-bull-shit/#comment-14075</guid>
		<description>Israel never should have given up the Sinai for this so called &#039;peace&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Israel never should have given up the Sinai for this so called &#8216;peace&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: MyTwoCents</title>
		<link>http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/10/23/israel-egypt-hamas-terror-i-say-egypt-hamas-bull-shit/#comment-14074</link>
		<dc:creator>MyTwoCents</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Oct 2007 06:09:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/10/23/israel-egypt-hamas-terror-i-say-egypt-hamas-bull-shit/#comment-14074</guid>
		<description>Hi, Rabndal. The article on Israeli textbooks is eight years old, but I&#039;m willing to assume nothing has changed. Is your point that Israelis are responding to Egyptian textbooks, or that Egyptians are responding to Israeli textbooks, or that both countries teach their children bigotry?

On the emergence of Hamas, I&#039;ve seen that before but really don&#039;t know details. Isn&#039;t it ironic that the enemy of your enemy isn&#039;t necessarily your friend?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, Rabndal. The article on Israeli textbooks is eight years old, but I&#8217;m willing to assume nothing has changed. Is your point that Israelis are responding to Egyptian textbooks, or that Egyptians are responding to Israeli textbooks, or that both countries teach their children bigotry?</p>
<p>On the emergence of Hamas, I&#8217;ve seen that before but really don&#8217;t know details. Isn&#8217;t it ironic that the enemy of your enemy isn&#8217;t necessarily your friend?</p>
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		<title>By: RandallJones</title>
		<link>http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/10/23/israel-egypt-hamas-terror-i-say-egypt-hamas-bull-shit/#comment-14073</link>
		<dc:creator>RandallJones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Oct 2007 02:18:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/10/23/israel-egypt-hamas-terror-i-say-egypt-hamas-bull-shit/#comment-14073</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Israel started Hamas&lt;/strong&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;...that Israel has only itself to blame for the emergence of Hamas. After 1967, when Israel occupied Gaza and the West Bank, the Israeli authorities encouraged the growth of Islamism as a counter to Palestinian nationalism and the PLO. In 1967, Israel freed Ahmed Yassin, the Muslim Brotherhood leader who founded Hamas in 1978-88, and they encouraged the Islamic right and the Brotherhood to take control of mosques and student groups. In 1977-78, the Israeli government of Menachem Begin’s Likud officially licensed Yassin’s Islamic movement and gave it official Israeli blessing. Throughout the 1980s, the Muslim Brotherhood fought pitched battles against the PLO.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

http://www.tompaine.com/articles/2006/01/27/end_of_the_road_map.php</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Israel started Hamas</strong></p>
<blockquote><p>&#8230;that Israel has only itself to blame for the emergence of Hamas. After 1967, when Israel occupied Gaza and the West Bank, the Israeli authorities encouraged the growth of Islamism as a counter to Palestinian nationalism and the PLO. In 1967, Israel freed Ahmed Yassin, the Muslim Brotherhood leader who founded Hamas in 1978-88, and they encouraged the Islamic right and the Brotherhood to take control of mosques and student groups. In 1977-78, the Israeli government of Menachem Begin’s Likud officially licensed Yassin’s Islamic movement and gave it official Israeli blessing. Throughout the 1980s, the Muslim Brotherhood fought pitched battles against the PLO.</p></blockquote>
<p><a href="http://www.tompaine.com/articles/2006/01/27/end_of_the_road_map.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.tompaine.com/articles/2006/01/27/end_of_the_road_map.php</a></p>
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		<title>By: RandallJones</title>
		<link>http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/10/23/israel-egypt-hamas-terror-i-say-egypt-hamas-bull-shit/#comment-14072</link>
		<dc:creator>RandallJones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Oct 2007 02:10:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/10/23/israel-egypt-hamas-terror-i-say-egypt-hamas-bull-shit/#comment-14072</guid>
		<description>MyTwoCents,

&lt;strong&gt;Israeli Textbooks and Children’s Literature Promote Racism and Hatred Toward Palestinians and Arabs&lt;/strong&gt;

http://www.wrmea.com/backissues/0999/9909019.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MyTwoCents,</p>
<p><strong>Israeli Textbooks and Children’s Literature Promote Racism and Hatred Toward Palestinians and Arabs</strong></p>
<p><a href="http://www.wrmea.com/backissues/0999/9909019.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.wrmea.com/backissues/0999/9909019.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: MyTwoCents</title>
		<link>http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/10/23/israel-egypt-hamas-terror-i-say-egypt-hamas-bull-shit/#comment-14071</link>
		<dc:creator>MyTwoCents</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Oct 2007 01:52:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/10/23/israel-egypt-hamas-terror-i-say-egypt-hamas-bull-shit/#comment-14071</guid>
		<description>Maybe Haaretz reads &lt;em&gt;Roz Al-Yousef&lt;/em&gt;?

http://memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SD174407

Scream about MEMRI if you want, but if you expect me to listen you need to point out a significant factual error or omission.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe Haaretz reads <em>Roz Al-Yousef</em>?</p>
<p><a href="http://memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SD174407" rel="nofollow">http://memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SD174407</a></p>
<p>Scream about MEMRI if you want, but if you expect me to listen you need to point out a significant factual error or omission.</p>
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		<title>By: eric/canada</title>
		<link>http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/10/23/israel-egypt-hamas-terror-i-say-egypt-hamas-bull-shit/#comment-14070</link>
		<dc:creator>eric/canada</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2007 18:27:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/10/23/israel-egypt-hamas-terror-i-say-egypt-hamas-bull-shit/#comment-14070</guid>
		<description>Hmph! well, first, I always find it rather ironic when a country who is a significant arms producer protests that arms smuggling is going on.  Kind of like a tobacco company protesting about second hand smoke...The fact is there is a serious demand for weapons in the Gaza strip.  I doubt the Egyptian government is promoting filling that demand; more likely, like most criminal networks, it happens and will continue to happen exclusive of their policies.  Perhaps the problem lies not with the motivation of the suppliers, but what reasons there are for the demand in the first place.  It&#039;s an area that Israel certainly has more influence over...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmph! well, first, I always find it rather ironic when a country who is a significant arms producer protests that arms smuggling is going on.  Kind of like a tobacco company protesting about second hand smoke&#8230;The fact is there is a serious demand for weapons in the Gaza strip.  I doubt the Egyptian government is promoting filling that demand; more likely, like most criminal networks, it happens and will continue to happen exclusive of their policies.  Perhaps the problem lies not with the motivation of the suppliers, but what reasons there are for the demand in the first place.  It&#8217;s an area that Israel certainly has more influence over&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: שושן</title>
		<link>http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/10/23/israel-egypt-hamas-terror-i-say-egypt-hamas-bull-shit/#comment-14069</link>
		<dc:creator>שושן</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2007 10:54:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/10/23/israel-egypt-hamas-terror-i-say-egypt-hamas-bull-shit/#comment-14069</guid>
		<description>oh come on...

the danger is in the lack of democracy, terrorinsts can rule the country and encouredge terror against israel in order to ease their own political life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>oh come on&#8230;</p>
<p>the danger is in the lack of democracy, terrorinsts can rule the country and encouredge terror against israel in order to ease their own political life.</p>
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		<title>By: levylevthuglife</title>
		<link>http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/10/23/israel-egypt-hamas-terror-i-say-egypt-hamas-bull-shit/#comment-14068</link>
		<dc:creator>levylevthuglife</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2007 02:19:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/10/23/israel-egypt-hamas-terror-i-say-egypt-hamas-bull-shit/#comment-14068</guid>
		<description>DB,
As a loyal Haaretz reader, allow me to reply to your critiques.  But first, I should say that your post was full of paranoid concerns that are not really true, and there are some points you may have missed since not everything in the Israeli press is translated into English.

After reading several articles (in Hebrew) on this topic in the last few months, I think the Israeli position is that Egypt systematically discriminates against the Bedouin community that lives in Sinai (which are more ethnically related to Bedouins in the negev and Saudi Arabia than to other Egyptians).   This systematic campaign includes the transfer of thousands of people from the Cairo area to work in the tourist industry in Sharam el Shaikh and other resorts.  These Cairo-based Egyptians &quot;settlers&quot; take all the jobs and resources away from the Bedouins and have thus marginilized them within Sinai.  Some Bedouins think the other Egyptians dislike them since they collaborated with the Israeli occupation before 1981.  Either way, since they are out of a &quot;regular&quot; job, many Bedouins have turned to smuggling, either weapons into Gaza, drugs into Egypt, Darfur refugees into Israel, or whatever.  A small minority is actually believed to be collaborating with al Qaeda, and the Egyptian government has arrested scores of them after the bombings in Taba and Dahab.

The Israeli government believes that the best way to stop the smuggling is for Egypt to improve the living conditions of the Bedouins, and Israel has asked Egypt to do so.  However, Egypt strongly objected telling Israel to mind its own business.  I also recall reading that some Bedouins have asked Israel to help them by pressing the Egyptian government, something that got them labelled as traitors.

As for the smuggling of weapons, the debate in Israel goes something like this: for 6 years Hezbollah armed with rockets unabated by Israel, which resulted in a 33 day war last summer.  Israel wishes to avoid such a scenerio in Gaza, and some see the need for a large ground operation in the Gaza strip sooner rather than later.  I don&#039;t think Israelis believe Mubarak wants to collborate with Hamas, but more something like cutting some deal with Hamas to give him domestic leverage to crack down on the Muslim brotherhood.  I have read several explanations of the 85 terrorists allowed into Gaza, and most of those articles suggested something of the sort.

I should also mention that Israel knows that once Mubarak is gone the Muslim brotherhood will take its place, and then the peace treaty they signed goes out the window.

A short point on the drug smuggling: as I said above this is done by Bedouins marginilized by both Egyptian and Israeli governments.  All they are trying to do is make a living and neither country is good at giving them jobs.

And your thought about some Israeli desire for Palestinians to kill each other and the Israeli conspiracy to slaughter children - simply not true.  Most Jews in Israel want the Palestinians to get along peacefully, form democratic institutions and negotiate a peace treaty with Israel without resorting to violence.  72 of the ~90 Zionist Knesset members support a Palestinian state in the West Bank, Gaza, and are willing to some compromise on Jerusalem (though there is no consensus on details).  The problem is that Israelis don&#039;t trust the Palestinians, they are convinced the Palestinians want to throw them in the sea or to flood Israel with refugees who want to return to their (ceased to exist) homes and in a generation throw the Jews in the sea.  I highly doubt an Israeli soldier wants to kill children, but when terrorists hide between civilians then civilian casualties are inevitable.  Remember, in the last 4 months Sderot has been bombarded with over 1000 rockets.  That&#039;s almost 10 per day.  And Sderot is within the green line, these people are not settlers or occupiers or soldiers, and firing rockets on them IS A WAR CRIME.  Whether Israel&#039;s reflex for a military solution is constructive is another story altogether.

So in short, Egypt should improve the living conditions and economy of the Bedouins in Sinai, and Israel should similarly improve conditions of their Bedouins.  This and improved dialog between the peoples is the only way to improve relations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DB,<br />
As a loyal Haaretz reader, allow me to reply to your critiques.  But first, I should say that your post was full of paranoid concerns that are not really true, and there are some points you may have missed since not everything in the Israeli press is translated into English.</p>
<p>After reading several articles (in Hebrew) on this topic in the last few months, I think the Israeli position is that Egypt systematically discriminates against the Bedouin community that lives in Sinai (which are more ethnically related to Bedouins in the negev and Saudi Arabia than to other Egyptians).   This systematic campaign includes the transfer of thousands of people from the Cairo area to work in the tourist industry in Sharam el Shaikh and other resorts.  These Cairo-based Egyptians &#8220;settlers&#8221; take all the jobs and resources away from the Bedouins and have thus marginilized them within Sinai.  Some Bedouins think the other Egyptians dislike them since they collaborated with the Israeli occupation before 1981.  Either way, since they are out of a &#8220;regular&#8221; job, many Bedouins have turned to smuggling, either weapons into Gaza, drugs into Egypt, Darfur refugees into Israel, or whatever.  A small minority is actually believed to be collaborating with al Qaeda, and the Egyptian government has arrested scores of them after the bombings in Taba and Dahab.</p>
<p>The Israeli government believes that the best way to stop the smuggling is for Egypt to improve the living conditions of the Bedouins, and Israel has asked Egypt to do so.  However, Egypt strongly objected telling Israel to mind its own business.  I also recall reading that some Bedouins have asked Israel to help them by pressing the Egyptian government, something that got them labelled as traitors.</p>
<p>As for the smuggling of weapons, the debate in Israel goes something like this: for 6 years Hezbollah armed with rockets unabated by Israel, which resulted in a 33 day war last summer.  Israel wishes to avoid such a scenerio in Gaza, and some see the need for a large ground operation in the Gaza strip sooner rather than later.  I don&#8217;t think Israelis believe Mubarak wants to collborate with Hamas, but more something like cutting some deal with Hamas to give him domestic leverage to crack down on the Muslim brotherhood.  I have read several explanations of the 85 terrorists allowed into Gaza, and most of those articles suggested something of the sort.</p>
<p>I should also mention that Israel knows that once Mubarak is gone the Muslim brotherhood will take its place, and then the peace treaty they signed goes out the window.</p>
<p>A short point on the drug smuggling: as I said above this is done by Bedouins marginilized by both Egyptian and Israeli governments.  All they are trying to do is make a living and neither country is good at giving them jobs.</p>
<p>And your thought about some Israeli desire for Palestinians to kill each other and the Israeli conspiracy to slaughter children &#8211; simply not true.  Most Jews in Israel want the Palestinians to get along peacefully, form democratic institutions and negotiate a peace treaty with Israel without resorting to violence.  72 of the ~90 Zionist Knesset members support a Palestinian state in the West Bank, Gaza, and are willing to some compromise on Jerusalem (though there is no consensus on details).  The problem is that Israelis don&#8217;t trust the Palestinians, they are convinced the Palestinians want to throw them in the sea or to flood Israel with refugees who want to return to their (ceased to exist) homes and in a generation throw the Jews in the sea.  I highly doubt an Israeli soldier wants to kill children, but when terrorists hide between civilians then civilian casualties are inevitable.  Remember, in the last 4 months Sderot has been bombarded with over 1000 rockets.  That&#8217;s almost 10 per day.  And Sderot is within the green line, these people are not settlers or occupiers or soldiers, and firing rockets on them IS A WAR CRIME.  Whether Israel&#8217;s reflex for a military solution is constructive is another story altogether.</p>
<p>So in short, Egypt should improve the living conditions and economy of the Bedouins in Sinai, and Israel should similarly improve conditions of their Bedouins.  This and improved dialog between the peoples is the only way to improve relations.</p>
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