It’s Iran that calls the U.S the “Great Satan.” This is about the Arab world. But I guess we brown ones are all the same terrorists to you. Touché.

Pretty hard to take you seriously, all in all, except as demented dangers to world survival and sanity.

I struggle to discuss feminism in the context of the Arab world because people always call the religion card, making it an awkward argument to get in to. Possible misinterpretations aside, the culture of the Arab world has been bred and raised to see women as second class citizens and the reasoning behind it has always been placed on Islam, regardless of the validity of that argument. Thus, any debate is seen as a direct insult to Islam.

As long as men enjoy their position of power and learn at their father’s knee that status quo is the best way to go, women will continue to suffer. I don’t know what it would take to change things.

Still, this column by Nissim isn’t talking about a woman’s place in Islam but today’s real world, where it “stands in stark contrast to Muhammad’s teaching.”

I was going to add that, but the arguments were too tempting to ignore. Some of these opinions need to be addressed, so that people are aware of who we really are and what we represent.

Arab and Muslim are incorrect synonymies, however, and people need to think before making that immediate connection.

Still, this column by Nissim isn’t talking about a woman’s place in Islam but today’s real world, where it “stands in stark contrast to Muhammad’s teaching.”

This is an insightful article by an American convert to Islam regarding women’s rights and equality in the faith.

but Muhammad’s first wife, Khadijah, was a very wealthy businesswoman who owned a number of successful businesses.

Khadijah was a non Muslim woman who existed in a non Muslim society. In fact, she was operated her own business well before the emergence of Islam. You can’t credit her success with having anything to do with Islam or Muhammad. What’s more revealing about Islam, is the status of Muhammad’s wives after Muhammad was a Muslim.

should I call the priests ignorant and wicked? I understand the islamic world is very defensive and they do not have any real exposure to freedom of speech, they are much more use to a world where their beliefs are beyond reproach. i also understand that very influential forces in the islamic world try to fan all flames and create a victim atmosphere around muslims that makes them even more sensitive. but that is not really my fault.

What is a Woman’s Place in the Arab World?

The rule of the Taliban in Afghanistan was perhaps the most blatant example of the oppression that women are subjected to in parts of the Middle East. I’ll never forget the image of a poor woman being stoned to death in a soccer stadium, for allegedly engaging in adultery.

Afghanis are NOT Arabs, Afghanistan is NOT in the Middle East.

Almost everybody does agree that women are not treated well in Muslim world, but there is not an agreement on the proper solution, neither in details nor even in the general approach. Some say that ‘root out the Islamic Ideology and the problem will come to an end’. I bet that if this approach is to be adopted, not only clergies will resist, but also women themselves will resist to some extent.

Such solutions originate from the mind of those people who are not familiar with the current situation in Muslim world. You might remember something about Catholic Church’s History, but who believes that the same thing might be effective in Muslim world? Who thinks the same method might help the cause of women in Muslim world? Comparing Catholic Church’s history with that of Muslim Societies, one might easily find out that many important factors work differently in the current quest.

If (and only if) Islam was incapable of tolerating reforms to become conforming to modern standard of humans rights, rooting out the Islam might be the only solution. But neither Islam is so rigid, nor are people so bonded over an orthodox interpretation of Islam.

Proposing a new model of life, consistent with a new interpretation of Islam as well as conforming to international norms, might be the ultimate solution.

For an example of such reforms, I suggest you to read this previous post of mine in MEY:
Women’s Rights and Islamic Laws
http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/07/08/womens-rights-and-islamic-laws/
*****
If you are going to address the problems of women in Muslim world in general and Iran in particular, I recommend you to read this article first of all:

Revolution, Islamization, and Women’s Employment in Iran
http://www.watsoninstitute.org/bjwa/archive/9.2/Iran/Bahramitash.pdf

The author of the above paper is Roksana Bahramitash, Iranian Postdoctoral Fellow in ‘Simone de Beauvoir Institute’, Concordia University. She is obsessed by Women’s cause, especially in a globalizing world.

niceties, as I hinted to earlier, only go so far. now you would probably be right in saying this is one of the better forums and I could goto numerous other islamic forums and get absolutely screamed out of the building for even hinting at the things I’ve said. but change won’t happen just by being nice, I see this is in the west. the islamic world is going backwards and we can’t develop the balls to tell it so. all we can manage to do is say how “a tiny minority have hijacked the religion etc etc.” you know the spiel. when in reality across the islamic world human rights are receeding in a multitude of fashions.

Why don’t you articulate it a bit better and engage people intellectually. Name calling is not going to do anything.

If you are serious you can write an entry and I will publish it for you and give people a chance to respond.

“We have to be careful when we criticize aspects of a foreign culture.” for me that is a no-no. that is what is stopping positive change, not helping it.

and I suppose its “easy” for me to “bark” about human rights. as for culture bashing, like I pointed out earlier, most are pretty similar in terms of patriarchal societies if you go back far enough. yet to move forward we have to be willing to confront it on an individual level. for example, here’s john adams former president, and founding father of the United States:

“The Church of Rome has made it an article of faith that no man can be saved out of their church, and all other religious sects approach this dreadful opinion in proportion to their ignorance, and the influence of ignorant or wicked priests.
– John Adams, Diary and Autobiography”

or thomas jefferson:
“Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear.
-Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787:”

which I think strikes right at the heart of islam’s problems, no questions, no criticism. ever. and any insinuation otherwise is dealt w/ hatred and violence. in the west we call those who question islamophobes, I’m sure in the islamic world there’s a more direct and violent way of dealing w/ questions.

take what I say however you want. maybe you do actually confront and criticize, in which case I am more agreeing w/ you. on the other hand(and the more likely one) maybe you feel that culture/religion must NOT be criticized and all things that could be criticized must be deflected into a “tiny minority” or some other obfuscation.

In any case, im not going to have this debate because I agree that there is some catching up to do. Its irrational to think that it is going to happen any time soon.

Islam bashing or cultural demonizing is not very useful. Trying to be pro-active is the right approach.

Make a donation to the Mona Foundation. A Baha’i Charity dedicated to the advancement of women and girls in the developing World.

islam tends to like to dress them in potatoe sacks and have honor killings and polygamy, but largely its pretty damn similar.

and yes, ALL CULTURES ON THE ENTIRE PLANET HAVE TO RESPECT HUMAN RIGHTS. I do expect that. and I wil make no excuses for it. and don’t forget that the first human rights advocates w/ no previous good examples, no universal convention on human rights, no liberalism setup had to fight in the west. this isn’t new ground anymore, and shoudln’t take nearly as long. of course you still have to overcome the same bigots as the first time.

May I remind you that the US was slow to giving women rights to vote, and other norms were not done away with until recently.

Its a process. Give it time.