Comments on: The Legitimacy of Belief http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/12/07/the-legitimacy-of-belief/ Thinking Ahead Sat, 11 Feb 2012 20:46:46 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Nissim Dahan (Israel/USA) http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/12/07/the-legitimacy-of-belief/#comment-15724 Nissim Dahan (Israel/USA) Sun, 09 Dec 2007 17:17:49 +0000 http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/12/07/the-legitimacy-of-belief/#comment-15724 Eric, I think there is a natural tendency to conclude that the violence we see swirling about dates back to the brutishness of the caveman. But actually, I don't think that's the case. Whether due to innate qualities, or learned behavior, it turns out that the cavemen were actually quite gentle with one another. Because they were hunters and gatherers; there was no real reason to kill one another. Would you kill your neighbor just to steal a couple of peanuts? Why bother? It would not have been possible for cavemen to survive for some 2 million years if they were really at each other's throats. This was borne out by a movie I saw on the Discovery Channel called <em>The Rise of Man</em>. The movie presents a lot of anthropological evidence that cavemen, for the most part, did embody the Golden Rule, as you allude to, "Treat others as you would have them treat you." This rule is perhaps the corner stone of Common Sense. The modern tendency to look at people outside our circle as "The Other" is very destructive, as you suggest, and is not in keeping with the legacy of ancient man. None of us is "the other." We are all here trying to make a living, and survive yet another day, as best we can. We have to somehow find a way to get back to the sense of commonality that is so much a part of the human condition, but that seems to elude us at every turn. Eric, I think there is a natural tendency to conclude that the violence we see swirling about dates back to the brutishness of the caveman. But actually, I don’t think that’s the case. Whether due to innate qualities, or learned behavior, it turns out that the cavemen were actually quite gentle with one another. Because they were hunters and gatherers; there was no real reason to kill one another. Would you kill your neighbor just to steal a couple of peanuts? Why bother?

It would not have been possible for cavemen to survive for some 2 million years if they were really at each other’s throats. This was borne out by a movie I saw on the Discovery Channel called The Rise of Man. The movie presents a lot of anthropological evidence that cavemen, for the most part, did embody the Golden Rule, as you allude to, “Treat others as you would have them treat you.” This rule is perhaps the corner stone of Common Sense.

The modern tendency to look at people outside our circle as “The Other” is very destructive, as you suggest, and is not in keeping with the legacy of ancient man. None of us is “the other.” We are all here trying to make a living, and survive yet another day, as best we can. We have to somehow find a way to get back to the sense of commonality that is so much a part of the human condition, but that seems to elude us at every turn.

]]> By: eric/canada http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/12/07/the-legitimacy-of-belief/#comment-15723 eric/canada Sun, 09 Dec 2007 14:58:59 +0000 http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/12/07/the-legitimacy-of-belief/#comment-15723 How about "do unto others as you would have them do unto you"? The principle of empathy is a much ignored one in our modern world. It seems far easer to imagine "the other", whoever that may be, as having alien motivations, impossible to understand and thus not worth the bother. When layered in the sediment of religion, racism, tribalism or nationalism, this feeling of disconnect can be devestating. Social, empathic behaviour is not innate to humans, though, but learned over the aeons. It is important to remember that humans were hunters for hundreds of thousands of years before they became sedentary farmers and eventually urbanites (those of you who believe the universe is 6 thousand years old, "shrug")and the instincts of violence and competition for survival run very deep in our species. The second story of creation, Cain and Abel, is about these two primal philosophies: whether to advance your lot through peaceful toil or to kill the peaceful toiler and take his stuff. This all goes back to these "leftover" hunter instincts, having no outlet when agrarian societies became the norm, manifesting as all these cliquish feelings that keep most of the planet at each others throats in varying shades. Our problem is really outdated biological software that has become racial malware! How about “do unto others as you would have them do unto you”? The principle of empathy is a much ignored one in our modern world. It seems far easer to imagine “the other”, whoever that may be, as having alien motivations, impossible to understand and thus not worth the bother. When layered in the sediment of religion, racism, tribalism or nationalism, this feeling of disconnect can be devestating. Social, empathic behaviour is not innate to humans, though, but learned over the aeons. It is important to remember that humans were hunters for hundreds of thousands of years before they became sedentary farmers and eventually urbanites (those of you who believe the universe is 6 thousand years old, “shrug”)and the instincts of violence and competition for survival run very deep in our species. The second story of creation, Cain and Abel, is about these two primal philosophies: whether to advance your lot through peaceful toil or to kill the peaceful toiler and take his stuff. This all goes back to these “leftover” hunter instincts, having no outlet when agrarian societies became the norm, manifesting as all these cliquish feelings that keep most of the planet at each others throats in varying shades. Our problem is really outdated biological software that has become racial malware!

]]> By: Nissim Dahan http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/12/07/the-legitimacy-of-belief/#comment-15722 Nissim Dahan Sat, 08 Dec 2007 23:18:17 +0000 http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/12/07/the-legitimacy-of-belief/#comment-15722 Two Cents, I agree with your assessment that if there is a God, which I think there is, that the intelligence and intuition He gave us are part of His plan. That combination of intuition and intelligence I call Common Sense, which I define as: The intuitive wisdom to conform our thoughts and actions to universally shared truths and values. And Mohammad, I agree with you as well that "it is very hard to find some universal foundations on which we might build consensus and a legitimate system of beliefs." Difficult, but not impossible. If there is any hope for our species, it will begin with an ideological framework which we can all relate to. And actually, I think that the human condition does lend itself to such a universal connection, if we only bother to connect the dots. The fact that there is racism, and that people are naturally suspicious of statements that allude to it, does not alter the fact that we share much more in common, than divides us. Think of a new born baby, and look to his or her needs, and you'll quickly come up with universal principles of common sense which we ignore at our peril. Two Cents, I agree with your assessment that if there is a God, which I think there is, that the intelligence and intuition He gave us are part of His plan. That combination of intuition and intelligence I call Common Sense, which I define as: The intuitive wisdom to conform our thoughts and actions to universally shared truths and values.

And Mohammad, I agree with you as well that “it is very hard to find some universal foundations on which we might build consensus and a legitimate system of beliefs.” Difficult, but not impossible. If there is any hope for our species, it will begin with an ideological framework which we can all relate to. And actually, I think that the human condition does lend itself to such a universal connection, if we only bother to connect the dots.

The fact that there is racism, and that people are naturally suspicious of statements that allude to it, does not alter the fact that we share much more in common, than divides us. Think of a new born baby, and look to his or her needs, and you’ll quickly come up with universal principles of common sense which we ignore at our peril.

]]> By: Mohammad Memarian (Iran) http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/12/07/the-legitimacy-of-belief/#comment-15721 Mohammad Memarian (Iran) Sat, 08 Dec 2007 20:21:54 +0000 http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/12/07/the-legitimacy-of-belief/#comment-15721 even within the realm of modern things and sciences, it's very hard to find some universal foundations on which we might build consensus and a legitimate system of beliefs. for example, consider the case of that british professor who is a great man in biology and expressed his view about Africans: they are less intelligent compared with other people in other continents, then their situation is less likely to improve... it was probably based on some concrete evidences he had found in some experiments, but many people condemned it and called it racism. therefore, I think, if any belief is likely to turn into an action, it should be based on a universal agreement... a pragmatic approach, ya? even within the realm of modern things and sciences, it’s very hard to find some universal foundations on which we might build consensus and a legitimate system of beliefs.

for example, consider the case of that british professor who is a great man in biology and expressed his view about Africans: they are less intelligent compared with other people in other continents, then their situation is less likely to improve… it was probably based on some concrete evidences he had found in some experiments, but many people condemned it and called it racism.

therefore, I think, if any belief is likely to turn into an action, it should be based on a universal agreement… a pragmatic approach, ya?

]]> By: MyTwoCents http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/12/07/the-legitimacy-of-belief/#comment-15720 MyTwoCents Sat, 08 Dec 2007 01:33:22 +0000 http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/12/07/the-legitimacy-of-belief/#comment-15720 Whatever God there may be, He did give us both intelligence and intuition. Using them could hardly be contrary to His plan... Whatever God there may be, He did give us both intelligence and intuition. Using them could hardly be contrary to His plan…

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