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	<title>Comments on: Traveling through Israel and Palestine</title>
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	<link>http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/12/07/traveling-through-israel-and-palestine/</link>
	<description>Thinking Ahead</description>
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		<title>By: Hammad Ahmed</title>
		<link>http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/12/07/traveling-through-israel-and-palestine/#comment-15746</link>
		<dc:creator>Hammad Ahmed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Apr 2010 09:50:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/12/07/traveling-through-israel-and-palestine/#comment-15746</guid>
		<description>Palestine is interesting country for me. I like to go there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Palestine is interesting country for me. I like to go there.</p>
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		<title>By: Nissim Dahan (Israel/USA)</title>
		<link>http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/12/07/traveling-through-israel-and-palestine/#comment-15745</link>
		<dc:creator>Nissim Dahan (Israel/USA)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Dec 2007 22:37:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/12/07/traveling-through-israel-and-palestine/#comment-15745</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s hard to say, Two Cents. But my guess is that Palestinians may buy into the illusory dream of destroying Israel, when there is nothing else on the table. Deep down, they know it&#039;s not likely. And they also know that their leaders are holding them back from a better life. And sometimes, they may actually believe that it&#039;s all Israel&#039;s fault.

But after a while, it becomes hard to fool oneself. As much as we want to believe in greater glories, sooner or later we have to come to terms with reality, and reality bites. The Palestians know that Israel will cut a decent enough deal, but it will require some sacrifices on both sides, including letting go of some deeply held beliefs. Only then will common sense prevail, and only then will true justice triumph. I believe that most Palestinians and Israelis realize this, but will have to suffer the agony of convincing those who hold the validity of their beliefs above the welfare of their people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s hard to say, Two Cents. But my guess is that Palestinians may buy into the illusory dream of destroying Israel, when there is nothing else on the table. Deep down, they know it&#8217;s not likely. And they also know that their leaders are holding them back from a better life. And sometimes, they may actually believe that it&#8217;s all Israel&#8217;s fault.</p>
<p>But after a while, it becomes hard to fool oneself. As much as we want to believe in greater glories, sooner or later we have to come to terms with reality, and reality bites. The Palestians know that Israel will cut a decent enough deal, but it will require some sacrifices on both sides, including letting go of some deeply held beliefs. Only then will common sense prevail, and only then will true justice triumph. I believe that most Palestinians and Israelis realize this, but will have to suffer the agony of convincing those who hold the validity of their beliefs above the welfare of their people.</p>
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		<title>By: MyTwoCents</title>
		<link>http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/12/07/traveling-through-israel-and-palestine/#comment-15744</link>
		<dc:creator>MyTwoCents</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Dec 2007 05:07:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/12/07/traveling-through-israel-and-palestine/#comment-15744</guid>
		<description>And what are the Gazians thinking in the middle of the night after watching huge crowds cheer when their leader promises the liberation of Palestine if they resist, not negotiate?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And what are the Gazians thinking in the middle of the night after watching huge crowds cheer when their leader promises the liberation of Palestine if they resist, not negotiate?</p>
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		<title>By: Nissim Dahan (Israel/USA)</title>
		<link>http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/12/07/traveling-through-israel-and-palestine/#comment-15743</link>
		<dc:creator>Nissim Dahan (Israel/USA)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Dec 2007 03:18:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/12/07/traveling-through-israel-and-palestine/#comment-15743</guid>
		<description>Rallies are one thing. And it&#039;s easy to be coerced into going, or to be taken in by the excitment of the moment. But then, after the rally is over, you go back to the squalor of your home. And you realize that this is not a life. And if somebody out there, someone with good intentions, can offer you the possibility of a life, a life of dignity, then maybe you&#039;ll think twice about what you actually believe. I don&#039;t get impressed much by rallies, or even by what people have to say in the heat of the moment. I take more seriously what people are really thinking in the stillness of the night, when there is no one around to meddle with their thoughts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rallies are one thing. And it&#8217;s easy to be coerced into going, or to be taken in by the excitment of the moment. But then, after the rally is over, you go back to the squalor of your home. And you realize that this is not a life. And if somebody out there, someone with good intentions, can offer you the possibility of a life, a life of dignity, then maybe you&#8217;ll think twice about what you actually believe. I don&#8217;t get impressed much by rallies, or even by what people have to say in the heat of the moment. I take more seriously what people are really thinking in the stillness of the night, when there is no one around to meddle with their thoughts.</p>
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		<title>By: MyTwoCents</title>
		<link>http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/12/07/traveling-through-israel-and-palestine/#comment-15742</link>
		<dc:creator>MyTwoCents</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Dec 2007 01:37:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/12/07/traveling-through-israel-and-palestine/#comment-15742</guid>
		<description>It isn&#039;t easy to marginalize the extremists when they&#039;re the ones in power, especially if they have some popularity. Have you heard about Hamas&#039;s anniversary rally? Tens of thousands of people cheering Ismail Haniya, &quot;Resistance and jihad is the best path to the liberation of Palestine, not negotiations and meetings, sitting at round tables and exchanging smiles and chuckles with the Jews.&quot;

Are you still over there, Ray?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It isn&#8217;t easy to marginalize the extremists when they&#8217;re the ones in power, especially if they have some popularity. Have you heard about Hamas&#8217;s anniversary rally? Tens of thousands of people cheering Ismail Haniya, &#8220;Resistance and jihad is the best path to the liberation of Palestine, not negotiations and meetings, sitting at round tables and exchanging smiles and chuckles with the Jews.&#8221;</p>
<p>Are you still over there, Ray?</p>
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		<title>By: Nissim Dahan (Israel/USA)</title>
		<link>http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/12/07/traveling-through-israel-and-palestine/#comment-15741</link>
		<dc:creator>Nissim Dahan (Israel/USA)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Dec 2007 19:28:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/12/07/traveling-through-israel-and-palestine/#comment-15741</guid>
		<description>Ray, most times when I refer to extremists, I don&#039;t single out one side or the other, because I readily admit that there are extremists on both sides of the fence.

On the Palestinian side, as we said, there are extremists who believe that it is to their advantage to perpetuate the conflict, as a means of consolidating power. There are also those whose sense of justice calls for the destruction of the state of Israel, and who place their need for that type of justice above the welfare of their people.

But to be fair, there are extremists in Israel as well. There are religious zealots who interpret the Bible to create a Jewish entitlement to all the land west of the Jordan River. And there are also Jews who view the political realities of the moment through the prism of an historical legacy of persecution. For these people, in light of 2000 years of Jewish suffering, culminating in the Holocaust, the conflict with the Palestinians, and with Arabs in general, poses an existential threat to Israel, and by implication , to the Jewish people.

And once you feel cornered, as these people do, you tend to over-react. So in your effort to defend against what you perceive as an existential threat, you over-react, and you transform yourself from a victim into an oppressor: by becoming an occupier, by maintaining checkpoints, by building a &quot;fence,&quot; by targeting assissinations, by detaining suspects, by demolishing houses, and by doing whatever you have to do in the name of security, the security you never had as a wandering Jew, and the security you will only have by defending your homeland.

So what&#039;s the answer, Ray? Well, part of the answer is this website, where people like you and I can talk to one another. And part of the answer is to use ideology and investment to empower the vast numbers of Israelis and Palestinians who want to embrace the possiblity of peace.

It is time to place people ahead of beliefs. It is time to believe in what makes sense, instead of believing in what we want to believe. And it is time to believe that God put us on this good earth to live, not to kill, and not to die, before our time.

The truth is not an extrmist position. As Aristotle, Muhammad, and Maimonides discovered; the truth is ususally somewhere in the middle between two extremes. We owe it to ourselves and to our children to create a reality that embodies the truth, and that gives expression to the beauty that surrounds us, the beauty that can one day define who we are as a people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ray, most times when I refer to extremists, I don&#8217;t single out one side or the other, because I readily admit that there are extremists on both sides of the fence.</p>
<p>On the Palestinian side, as we said, there are extremists who believe that it is to their advantage to perpetuate the conflict, as a means of consolidating power. There are also those whose sense of justice calls for the destruction of the state of Israel, and who place their need for that type of justice above the welfare of their people.</p>
<p>But to be fair, there are extremists in Israel as well. There are religious zealots who interpret the Bible to create a Jewish entitlement to all the land west of the Jordan River. And there are also Jews who view the political realities of the moment through the prism of an historical legacy of persecution. For these people, in light of 2000 years of Jewish suffering, culminating in the Holocaust, the conflict with the Palestinians, and with Arabs in general, poses an existential threat to Israel, and by implication , to the Jewish people.</p>
<p>And once you feel cornered, as these people do, you tend to over-react. So in your effort to defend against what you perceive as an existential threat, you over-react, and you transform yourself from a victim into an oppressor: by becoming an occupier, by maintaining checkpoints, by building a &#8220;fence,&#8221; by targeting assissinations, by detaining suspects, by demolishing houses, and by doing whatever you have to do in the name of security, the security you never had as a wandering Jew, and the security you will only have by defending your homeland.</p>
<p>So what&#8217;s the answer, Ray? Well, part of the answer is this website, where people like you and I can talk to one another. And part of the answer is to use ideology and investment to empower the vast numbers of Israelis and Palestinians who want to embrace the possiblity of peace.</p>
<p>It is time to place people ahead of beliefs. It is time to believe in what makes sense, instead of believing in what we want to believe. And it is time to believe that God put us on this good earth to live, not to kill, and not to die, before our time.</p>
<p>The truth is not an extrmist position. As Aristotle, Muhammad, and Maimonides discovered; the truth is ususally somewhere in the middle between two extremes. We owe it to ourselves and to our children to create a reality that embodies the truth, and that gives expression to the beauty that surrounds us, the beauty that can one day define who we are as a people.</p>
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		<title>By: Ray Hanania</title>
		<link>http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/12/07/traveling-through-israel-and-palestine/#comment-15740</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray Hanania</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Dec 2007 00:06:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/12/07/traveling-through-israel-and-palestine/#comment-15740</guid>
		<description>DOn&#039;t be offended Nissim if I add to everything you wrote -- which I agree with -- that Israelis, too, have a serious problem with hatred and denial. They refuse to see what they are doing and they insist that when they respond it is not hatred, when in fact much of what I see coming from Israel is very much hatred against Palestinians. I think Israelis have to recognize that they are where others were once at above them ... that Jews, at one time, were victims and persecuted and mistreated ... but that being an oppressor is not consistent with being Jewish. Israelis need to acknowledge their own misdeeds and stop blaming everything on the Palestinians ... acknowledge the suffering of Palestinian refugees instead of worrying about whether that acknowledgment will be used as a political leverage ... we&#039;re all so worried about how morality is abused that we back off it as if it is a problem. Morality, principle and justice are all exploited but they are still the right things to pursue

thanks
Ray Hanania</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DOn&#8217;t be offended Nissim if I add to everything you wrote &#8212; which I agree with &#8212; that Israelis, too, have a serious problem with hatred and denial. They refuse to see what they are doing and they insist that when they respond it is not hatred, when in fact much of what I see coming from Israel is very much hatred against Palestinians. I think Israelis have to recognize that they are where others were once at above them &#8230; that Jews, at one time, were victims and persecuted and mistreated &#8230; but that being an oppressor is not consistent with being Jewish. Israelis need to acknowledge their own misdeeds and stop blaming everything on the Palestinians &#8230; acknowledge the suffering of Palestinian refugees instead of worrying about whether that acknowledgment will be used as a political leverage &#8230; we&#8217;re all so worried about how morality is abused that we back off it as if it is a problem. Morality, principle and justice are all exploited but they are still the right things to pursue</p>
<p>thanks<br />
Ray Hanania</p>
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		<title>By: Nissim Dahan (Israel/USA)</title>
		<link>http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/12/07/traveling-through-israel-and-palestine/#comment-15739</link>
		<dc:creator>Nissim Dahan (Israel/USA)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2007 03:53:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/12/07/traveling-through-israel-and-palestine/#comment-15739</guid>
		<description>I agree with you, Ray, that the problem in the region is intractable because there is a powerful minority that sees it as in their interest to perpetuate the crisis. Their power is fueled by the hatred that they help to sustain.

Therefore, reasonable people like yourself, and like the majority of Palestinians, have to come up with a way to marginalize the extremists. My take on it involves 5 pieces, in an effort to Sell a Vision of Hope:

1. Create a new ideological framework based on common sense.

2. Invest in one another to create jobs.

3. Use Ideology and Investment to sell people on a Vision of Hope- a Vision of Peace, Prosperity, and Freedom.

4. Sustain the hope with some heavy duty Public Diplomacy, including Empowering Women.

5. And when you have to, fight, and fight hard, but position the fight within a Vision of Hope. Raise the fight on the ground to a higher moral plain by giving the fight a moral clarity of purpose.

I can&#039;t be sure that it will work. But I think it just might. When a poor Palestinian looks at the table and sees only an ideology of hate and some charitable handouts, then that&#039;s what he&#039;s going to buy into, because that&#039;s all there is. But when he looks at the table and sees an ideology that makes more sense, and a job waiting for him, then now there&#039;s a choice, and I&#039;d like to believe that 90% will choose a life, and will fight the extremists who would take that life away.

I am beginning to meet some people who actually have the wealth and power to pull something like this off. Whether they can be convinced is something else. But I think it&#039;s worth a shot to at least try.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with you, Ray, that the problem in the region is intractable because there is a powerful minority that sees it as in their interest to perpetuate the crisis. Their power is fueled by the hatred that they help to sustain.</p>
<p>Therefore, reasonable people like yourself, and like the majority of Palestinians, have to come up with a way to marginalize the extremists. My take on it involves 5 pieces, in an effort to Sell a Vision of Hope:</p>
<p>1. Create a new ideological framework based on common sense.</p>
<p>2. Invest in one another to create jobs.</p>
<p>3. Use Ideology and Investment to sell people on a Vision of Hope- a Vision of Peace, Prosperity, and Freedom.</p>
<p>4. Sustain the hope with some heavy duty Public Diplomacy, including Empowering Women.</p>
<p>5. And when you have to, fight, and fight hard, but position the fight within a Vision of Hope. Raise the fight on the ground to a higher moral plain by giving the fight a moral clarity of purpose.</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t be sure that it will work. But I think it just might. When a poor Palestinian looks at the table and sees only an ideology of hate and some charitable handouts, then that&#8217;s what he&#8217;s going to buy into, because that&#8217;s all there is. But when he looks at the table and sees an ideology that makes more sense, and a job waiting for him, then now there&#8217;s a choice, and I&#8217;d like to believe that 90% will choose a life, and will fight the extremists who would take that life away.</p>
<p>I am beginning to meet some people who actually have the wealth and power to pull something like this off. Whether they can be convinced is something else. But I think it&#8217;s worth a shot to at least try.</p>
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		<title>By: Ray Hanania</title>
		<link>http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/12/07/traveling-through-israel-and-palestine/#comment-15738</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray Hanania</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2007 23:43:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/12/07/traveling-through-israel-and-palestine/#comment-15738</guid>
		<description>Hey Nissim ... I agree with you up to the point that hatred does not allow people to think for themselves ... hatred is a disease, usually the result of failed attempts at justice and continued frustration and suffering. Palestinians didn&#039;t begin by Hating Jews or Israel, but the hatred grew from suffering, failure to achieve their goals, continued occupation, oppression, injustice, etc., but most importantly, the inability to find a solution. Groups like Hamas do not want Palestinians to find a solution because once they lose the hate, they lose the will to fight ... Hamas feeds on the hatred to build up their rejection of all efforts at compromise ... it is doing more to undermine Palestinian freedom and statehood than it is to destroy Israel, it&#039;s stated goal.

Secular palestinians will compromise. Islamicists will not compromise on dictatorial religious faith. One problem is the industry of activism. When the conflict ends, there will be a lot of people out of jobs, including those who, fromt he comforts of their Western homes, yell that Palestinians should remain in refugee camps.

There is no compromise with Hamas. It is a minority group that dominates the majority through the exploitation of the majority&#039;s suffering and failed achievement of their goals. Economic prosperity is not the answer by itself. A person must have a sense of genuine freedom to truly appreciate the benefits of economic success.

just my two dirhams :) (Dubai money)

Ray Hanania</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Nissim &#8230; I agree with you up to the point that hatred does not allow people to think for themselves &#8230; hatred is a disease, usually the result of failed attempts at justice and continued frustration and suffering. Palestinians didn&#8217;t begin by Hating Jews or Israel, but the hatred grew from suffering, failure to achieve their goals, continued occupation, oppression, injustice, etc., but most importantly, the inability to find a solution. Groups like Hamas do not want Palestinians to find a solution because once they lose the hate, they lose the will to fight &#8230; Hamas feeds on the hatred to build up their rejection of all efforts at compromise &#8230; it is doing more to undermine Palestinian freedom and statehood than it is to destroy Israel, it&#8217;s stated goal.</p>
<p>Secular palestinians will compromise. Islamicists will not compromise on dictatorial religious faith. One problem is the industry of activism. When the conflict ends, there will be a lot of people out of jobs, including those who, fromt he comforts of their Western homes, yell that Palestinians should remain in refugee camps.</p>
<p>There is no compromise with Hamas. It is a minority group that dominates the majority through the exploitation of the majority&#8217;s suffering and failed achievement of their goals. Economic prosperity is not the answer by itself. A person must have a sense of genuine freedom to truly appreciate the benefits of economic success.</p>
<p>just my two dirhams <img src='http://www.mideastyouth.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  (Dubai money)</p>
<p>Ray Hanania</p>
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		<title>By: Nissim Dahan (Israel/USA)</title>
		<link>http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/12/07/traveling-through-israel-and-palestine/#comment-15737</link>
		<dc:creator>Nissim Dahan (Israel/USA)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2007 22:01:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/12/07/traveling-through-israel-and-palestine/#comment-15737</guid>
		<description>Ray, you are very eloquent in your denounciation of some people&#039;s warped sense of justice. For some, justice means destroying the State of Israel. To my mind, that will not bring justice. I agree that there has been injustice in the past, and that the injustice is being perpetuated as we speak, by both sides to the conflict. But in the final analysis, justice will not come from destroying an exsisting nation, but rather from building a new one.

Israel could help to bring justice by helping to revitalize the economy of a Palestinian State. That will create the kind of justice that Palestinians deserve.

You say that we can&#039;t negotiate with Hamas. Well, here&#039;s another idea. What if we invest heavily in the economic viability of the West Bank. Not in payoffs, but in jobs. Soon enough, the people in Gaza may see what&#039;s happening in the West Bank, and say to Hamas, &quot;Hey, where&#039;s our share?&quot; They are in a better position to sqeeze Hamas than anyone else. When Israel fights Hamas, they augment their power through martyrdom. But when the local population comes to the conclusion that Hamas is holding them back from a better life, then they will become marginalized in the eyes of their own people, and their power will diminish accordingly. &lt;strong&gt;The extremists will not be able to capture the public&#039;s imagination, once people begin to imagine a better life &lt;/strong&gt;&lt;strong&gt;for themselves&lt;/strong&gt;. The West is well advised to put that alternative on the table.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ray, you are very eloquent in your denounciation of some people&#8217;s warped sense of justice. For some, justice means destroying the State of Israel. To my mind, that will not bring justice. I agree that there has been injustice in the past, and that the injustice is being perpetuated as we speak, by both sides to the conflict. But in the final analysis, justice will not come from destroying an exsisting nation, but rather from building a new one.</p>
<p>Israel could help to bring justice by helping to revitalize the economy of a Palestinian State. That will create the kind of justice that Palestinians deserve.</p>
<p>You say that we can&#8217;t negotiate with Hamas. Well, here&#8217;s another idea. What if we invest heavily in the economic viability of the West Bank. Not in payoffs, but in jobs. Soon enough, the people in Gaza may see what&#8217;s happening in the West Bank, and say to Hamas, &#8220;Hey, where&#8217;s our share?&#8221; They are in a better position to sqeeze Hamas than anyone else. When Israel fights Hamas, they augment their power through martyrdom. But when the local population comes to the conclusion that Hamas is holding them back from a better life, then they will become marginalized in the eyes of their own people, and their power will diminish accordingly. <strong>The extremists will not be able to capture the public&#8217;s imagination, once people begin to imagine a better life </strong><strong>for themselves</strong>. The West is well advised to put that alternative on the table.</p>
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