Muneeb (Saudi Arabia/Pakistan) Wrote:
It is estimated that 25% of suicide attempts are made by gay youth. I too planned my own suicide at 16 assuming that the world would never accept me. It is not being gay that makes you suicidal. It is dealing with cultures around you, your own family, who prefer you to be dead than gay. That is my concern.
MOST teenager’s have had a sucide thought go through their head sometime or another.. and MOST of them come really close to doing it.. its not just gays who think of Suicide.. :S

Even in Australia statistically gay and lesbian youth are about 3 times more likely than a straight kid to attempt or commit suicide. I think this is why reaching out to gay and lesbian youth to let them know that they are not alone, and despite what their family, peers and media say they are a valuable person, is important.

My partners mother from Syria just visited us (she was told we are housemates). At the end of the 3 weeks she told me that I was part of the family now (and the discussion that she initiated with her son made it clear that SHE knew what was going on between us).

At the age of 42, I have found that many people I have met in my life get to know you as a a person, and if and when your being gay becomes relevant, they like you for who you are and accept it.

Its only what you do when you close the bedroom door that is “different”. I dont ask about or judge them for what they do in their bedroom, and dont expect they will judge me. I have never understood why Christian Fundamentalists are so interested in what people do behind their bedroom doors, and they choose to spend millions of dollars in supporting anti-gay politicians (ie the right wing christian cult called Exclusive Brethren).

Anyway, initially I thought that a traditional Syrian mother in her 70s would go crazy if she found out about her sons homosexuality and relationship - but no, she is fine with it - “Just dont tell your father”. Thats because father is VERY WORRIED about what others think… its all about reputation and what he thinks others will think of him and the family.

She would no doubt prefer my partner was “straight” and had kids to carry on the family name, and to look after him when he is old - but thats what I am here for - and why we have superannuation (insurance) - as our Australian society is different to the overwhelming majority of Middle Eastern, Asian and even European cultures where the family is first - and kids support the family.

Even here in Australia many people who are homosexual choose NOT to act on it and take the “hetero” route - marry and have kids. Often they can carry it off for life - but more often than not they cannot “live the lie”, and separate from their spouse and share the kids (or often lose access to them). In the process they affect lives of many around them - and go through a lot of trauma - but hopefully everyone (adults and kids) survives the coming out and usual break up of the family unit.

With education about homosexuality as a valid sexuality, and acceptance of it (or tolerance as a first step on the road to acceptance) many of these people may then have chosen to move forward with a same sex relationship, rather than choose to try to bow to society and family pressure by “appearing” to be straight.

There was another comment in this thread about Iran being a fine place to live for homosexuals.

Mohammad Memarian Wrote:
Homosexuality has a well-documented history in this country, Iran, as well as the whole mother earth. this phenomenon happens very often in Iran, and as I know, nobody has ever been executed or lashed just for being gay or practicing homosexual activites in recent years (yeah, some got executed, but that had raped younger boys). Even a park in tehran, called Parke Daneshjoo or Students’ Park is famous for hosting several male whores.

Unfortunately I think the writer is out of touch.

A Persian friend I have made (who was kept in immigration detention in Australia for 6 years), was running 30 mins late to go to a gathering of some gay friends at a private home in Tehran. As he pulled up in the taxi the police were dragging out the 10 or so other guys who had already arrived. He had heard of this kind of thing before (with people disappearing never to be heard of again - assumedly either being left to rot forever in a jail, or executed). So scared for his life he fled in the clothes he had on his back, accessed his bank accounts to get his money and contacted the people smugglers and made his way via Indonesia to Australia.

Unfortunately that does not sound like a very tolerant country to me - remember recently the leader said in the UN that there are no homosexuals in Iran (maybe because he knows he has driven most of them out of the country with fear).

And unfortunately, a few male whores in a park do not mean a society is “tolerant” (from what I can gather from the current Iranian regime it probably means that they are on the payroll of someone in the police to get information on the clients in order to round them up). Even in the “enlightened west” male prostitutes are not always homosexual, but often heterosexual men who will engage in homosexual acts for money (gay for pay).

It seems in past years Iran HAD been a wonderful enlightened place - but the current regime is certainly on record as not tolerating homosexuals in any form. Changes in regimes/leaders in other countries in the Middle East certainly have led to greater enlightenment for the society, while still retaining the core values of Islam.

I am new to this forum and find it intriguing, and hope that your work can keep the discussions happening, and help in some way to influence public perceptions.

Shahin claimed the movie is part of “a Zionist and American conspiracy” which uses this sort of movie to destroy the moral fabric of society.

alarabiya.net

It is estimated that 25% of suicide attempts are made by gay youth. I too planned my own suicide at 16 assuming that the world would never accept me. It is not being gay that makes you suicidal. It is dealing with cultures around you, your own family, who prefer you to be dead than gay. That is my concern.

MOST teenager’s have had a sucide thought go through their head sometime or another.. and MOST of them come really close to doing it.. its not just gays who think of Suicide.. :S

We lived in Israel and Canada and were accepted by everyone who ever spent more than 5 minutes with us and this includes religious, non-religious, traditional, non-traditional, Muslims, Christians and Jews and even those who thought gay people were disgusting and should be put in concentration camps. My husband comes from a traditional Yemenite/Kurdish family who thought being gay was a disease. They changed their views when he told them he was gay and they have accepted me fully as his partner ever since.

Gay guy also Wrote:

It is estimated that 25% of suicide attempts are made by gay youth. I too planned my own suicide at 16 assuming that the world would never accept me. It is not being gay that makes you suicidal. It is dealing with cultures around you, your own family, who prefer you to be dead than gay.

Would you say then that the perception of intolerance is as big a problem as intolerance itself? In places such as Canada and Israel I mean?

Just to pick up where some others left off: I just don’t see how “choice” has anything to do with any of this, to be honest. Every time I bring this up, people start talking about whether it’s a choice or not, and it distracts the whole discussion. I think people bring up “choices” in almost every thread about homosexuality we’ve had, and it has stopped so many great debates from taking place, because we’d all be discussing this instead which we have done many times before.

Lifestyle has nothing to do with choices, in this particular case, and in the manner in which I used it. I don’t know how we ended up having a discussion about something that is essentially irrelevant to what I was aiming for with my post.

I think I am going to start being attracted to women. No you can’t, that’s what I am talking about. Your attraction to the same gender will be there forever, till the day you die. It won’t change and you can’t change it.

You’re right to an extent, Jina. In addition, I often wonder whose lifestyle in particular we are talking about since the gay community is extremely diverse and not easily represented by any particular sub-group. Gay men and women live all sorts of lives. I can tell plenty of stories about who and what I saw in Hollywood nightclubs when I would sneak out my house late at night during high school, and rest assured, the folks I’m thinking of definitely are not living the same lifestyles that “Gay guy Corey” above does.

However, all that said, Esra’a is also right since it cannot be denied that some gay people in fact do adhere to a certain culture and politic that revolve around their homosexuality, which means for them it is a lifestyle. Most likely, the reason why this occurs within the gay community is because gays and lesbians historically have not been allowed self-expression within mainstream society, are forced to feel like unrepresented minorities, and denied many rights, so it’s only normal to choose to create identities that incorporate that sense of disenfranchisement and, hence, rebellion into them.

I guess what this all boils down to is that, yes, there absolutely is a gay lifestyle as anybody who has been to the French Market Cafe in West Hollywood knows, but it is not mainstreamed throughout the gay community.

ADMIT IT, YOUR GAY AREN’T YOU PV!!!

LOL LOL LOL Becuz of course only a gay dude would dare defend the rights of gay people, aint that right you brute?

Lifestyle doesn’t mean a choice. Arabs have a particular lifestyle too, distinguishable from all others, it doesn’t mean any of us “chose” to be Arabs, just like people don’t particularly choose to be gay. Lifestyle simply means a distinguishable way of life, in which a certain people lead their lives a certain way.

Ahhhhhhh, you can change your lifestyle because it’s a choice, you can wake up one day and say I am going to be a hooker go prostitute yourself to strangers. As a gay person, you can’t wake up one day and go… ohh gee.. I think I am going to start being attracted to women. No you can’t, that’s what I am talking about. Your attraction to the same gender will be there forever, till the day you die. It won’t change and you can’t change it.

First, (to Elinor) this is Corey who writes in GNBlog some times. I gave the name gayguy to make it obvious that I was writing as a gay person. I don’t like when people describe a group they don’t know very well yet are sure they know the issues. Most gay people (particularly in the Middle East) hide and may feel uncomfortable posting so I wanted to make a strong statement.

No, we never lived in Tel Aviv (can’t afford it). I have always lived with my husband in small villages/towns or in the suburbs. The last place we lived is a small town outside Tel Aviv called Yehud. It is not a very progressive place- lots of “arsim” (lower class people- hopefully I won’t get in trouble to that term. I come from a family of arsim if that makes people feel better :-)) We had great friendships with out neighbours who had the same “lifestyle” as us: working families, trying to get dinner made, tidy up the house, wanting our kids to have the best opportunities possible, hoping the mother-in-law won’t tell me how to raise my son, etc. We did get some looks at the beginning when the gossips in the building couldn’t understand why two men had a 1 year old. Once we got to know them and were invited over for kubbe, the ice was broken.

Esra’a, I meant no personal offence. I will check out the homosexuality category.

Don’t worry. Your questions are fine.
Do I care if my son is straight or gay? No. And I don’t think it is a choice. I have never met a gay man in my life who suddenly decided to be gay. It is like choosing to be attracted to the opposite sex. It is out of our hands. I suppose the only reason I would want my son to be straight is only to prove that gay parents can’t create gay children. But regardless, it would be a little hypocritical of me to try to make him turn out one way or another. Trust me, my parents didn’t try to make me gay 

From the friends we have who are lesbian or gay parents, I don’t see any difference in how their children are over our non-gay parent friends. Again, if parenting style or example could make someone gay, there would probably be a lot more gay people everywhere. I had a co-worker who was sure being gay was a trend that cool people try to aspire to. Trust me, I am the least cool person you will ever meet. I am a total geek.

I have found in Israel that bigotry can be anywhere and towards anyone- small minded people are small minded people who often choose not to ask questions. I have also found that everyone I have met, when challenged on their views, accepted me as a human being instead of a concept that they hear about. That includes religious people as well. One co-worker who was in the process of becoming religious told me he decided to come out of the closet at work (being a religious Jew) as a joke. I don’t really believe that I changed their entire view on homosexuality but my hope is to create a better world for my son (with less bigotry in general) and for other gay people particularly youth.

A lifestyle means a certain way in which people do things.

Activists have a certain lifestyle. Pregnant people have a certain lifestyle. Different communities or different sub-cultures have certain lifestyles. We all live differently. Get over it.

I think you are cowards to not reach out to gay youth.

I think you haven’t clicked on the “homosexuality” category to see how much voice we have given to homosexual men and women in the Middle East, which very few websites dare to do. So please be careful whom you call cowards. We did very much in terms of homosexual activism within this website, just by speaking up for their rights, by inviting them to write with us, by empowering intiatives. Here we are not talking about cowardness, so much as we are talking about homosexuality being a justified taboo, an untouchable sin that is treated far worse than actual crimes. We are talking about hypocricy, religious and otherwise.

I am married to another man and we have a son. He thinks we are amazing parents and doesn’t care that he has two dads and no mom. We lived in Israel and Canada and were accepted by everyone who ever spent more than 5 minutes with us and this includes religious, non-religious, traditional, non-traditional, Muslims, Christians and Jews and even those who thought gay people were disgusting and should be put in concentration camps. My husband comes from a traditional Yemenite/Kurdish family who thought being gay was a disease. They changed their views when he told them he was gay and they have accepted me fully as his partner ever since. They are amazing grandparents to our son and I have total respect for them.

My concern is not with this ridiculous argument of what a gay lifestyle is or whether it is a choice or can be compared to incest. My concern is with the many Palestinian and Israeli gays I know who risk their lives not based on something they chose, but based on who they are as human beings. It is estimated that 25% of suicide attempts are made by gay youth. I too planned my own suicide at 16 assuming that the world would never accept me. It is not being gay that makes you suicidal. It is dealing with cultures around you, your own family, who prefer you to be dead than gay. That is my concern.

So if you want to have this ridiculous argument about what is says in the Koran or the Bible or if it is Western influence, feel free. Meanwhile, approximately 4% of youth that you likely know, are suffering because they live in a society or are believers in a religion that won’t accept them. I think you are cowards to not reach out to gay youth.

it sounds like he’s saying, “just don’t get caught” which is really confusing.

It’s more like, “don’t do it, because if we find out, we’re going to torture and kill you. So you better be good at hiding it.”

It’s not like “great, we’re happy for you, but shhh don’t tell anyone.”

ADMIT IT, YOUR GAY AREN’T YOU PV!!!