Saudi Women
I have for you two videos from abc news that I found quite insightful especially for those of you who don’t know much about Saudi women. One of them is called, Saudi Arabia: lifting the veil. It does put light to what we young Saudi women go through in making small steps towards progress and change while we keep the traditions that actually matter and that belong to Islam.
The other video is called, Saudi princess on women’s rights. It is an interview done on women breast cancer awareness week in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia in last October 2007. This interview was with princess Loulwa Al-Faisal who is known as a crusade for women’s education and philanthropy.
She has been speaking publicly about Saudi women’s rights in the last few years and has been very active in support of the Saudi business woman.
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you couldn’t find a better word to use than “crusade”?
Well..couldn’t you find a better name than SPANKY?
To be honest that part doesn’t give the right image.. true.. thanks
Couldn’t they find a more hackneyed title? Lifting the veil, wa moshtaka6ha (beyond/beneath/behind the veil, dead as the proverbial harem doornail. Loulwa Al-Faisal is brilliant.
Rasha, I like how you distinguish between the “small steps toward progress and change,” on the one hand, and “the traditions that acutally matter and that belong to Islam.” It is similar to what Princess Loulwa Al-Faisal has to say about embracing change, without losing traditions.
In a certain sense, when you mix together things that belong in diffent categories, you can easily create a confusion that blurs necessary distinctions. The spiritual essence that belongs to Islam, is different from the changes that are necessary to compete in a global economy. The traditions of the past, many of which are worth preserving, should not be interpreted to hold women back from realizing their full potential. Not because the West says so, but because women the world over recognize that they have an important part to play in fixing this damaged world, and that their ability in this regard should not be stifled.
I also agree that empowering female entrepreneurs is probably the easiest way to promote women’s rights, and to put them on an equal footing, as equal partners of their husbands, as I think was the Prophet Muhammad’s intent.
i like this name “Spanky” only because it was given to me by someone hot, period.
anyway, this was such a perfect example of a freudian slip (from an Islamofascist point of view i mean)
From the article:
I believe that Facebook has way more saudi member’s then tht
and this is sorta follow up to this:
http://www.arabianbusiness.com/509466-saudi-govt-approves-womens-rights-group
BTW I only c one link here
, the abcnews link
Rasha.
you said: “while we keep the traditions that actually matter and that belong to Islam”.
the whole debate in ksa is to define that which belongs to islam and that which doesnt. so in essence everyone agrees on the principle; the problem is that not all agree on which criteria to use for inclusion and exclusion.
Spanky.
the word crusade is an accurate word; and has connotations absent in others. why do you see using it as a problem?
Nissim.
You said ” changes that are necessary to compete in a global economy”
but is this what its all about? can the requiriments of competition be the foundation on which we build our social system?
change is vital; but it should not be motivated or founded on market imperatives.
when you open the abc news link, look at the upper right side of your screen and you will find a box that plays both videos. click on the title one at a time to see the content.
and thanks for sharing that link.. Muneeb
As for Spanky.. you are reading too much into a word and holding on to a very weak thread in your statement. It doesn’t say any thing about me or my thoughts..
You see.. to mention that a woman is fighting for other women’s rights (and believe me it is a battle for all of us young women sometimes to just take the smallest of steps towards the goal of being treated and looked upon as an independent individual)has nothing to do with an an Islam-fascist point of view as you mentioned.
Hmmm.. It is interesting how people believe what they want to believe instead of looking at the matter simply..
i was trying to be friendly warn you against the Islamofascist and in return i am accused of being something bad….or stupid, i am not sure.
anyway, i wonder how come you are not familiar with the Islamofascists point of view. you live in the country which produced Islamofascism 14 centuries ago, the country where Islamofascism is the dominant power….maybe i should give you a few hints
1-the Islamofascists say that feminism is against Islam.
2- and then you say that this women is in a crusade.
3- and the word “crusade” for hundreds of millions of Islamofascists around the world can only be translated to “war on Islam”.
you must know that Islamofascists find big interest in small details and Freudian slips….you should be careful..
anyway, a quick off topic question (not 100% off topic, but anyway)….how popular is Khat in Saudi Arabia?
look up the word crusade.. it can be defined into several meanings..
Definition: campaign
Synonyms: cause, demonstration, drive, evangelism, expedition, holy war, march, movement, push… and so many others
and in this context it meant the 1st 3 mentioned above.
and REAL Islam is not against women or women’s rights in any way.
As I mentioned.. you decided to twist my words to what suited you and your thoughts.
what is khat?
Yeah Have found it will chk it later..
welcome
you seem to have been looking for some action by using this name here..
who cares about ur personal stuff [unless it has something 2do w/ the post being discussed] BTW whoever said that 2 u surely didnt want u 2 b dancing around w/ it :S
Abdullah, I agree with you that it can’t be all about money, and that there are indeed beliefs and traditions that we should hold onto regardless of financial consequences.
That having been said, there is no question that the world is moving toward a global economy, and that nations will have to find a way to compete with one another so as to provide for their people. We will also have to find ways to cooperate in order to solve some of the global problems we all face, like Global Warming.
Therefore, we have no choice but to look at some of our traditions and some of our beliefs in light of the need to become a viable part of the world community, and the world economy.
If, for example, we hold on to traditions which marginalize women, who are half of the work force, and if doing so makes us unable to compete and to provide for the welfare of our people, then we owe it to ourselves to relook at such traditions, and to interpret them in terms of the realities and necessities of the moment.
After such analysis, we may still opt to hold on to such traditions, but we should do that with open eyes, and with the awareness that such customs may be holding us back from a better life, which in itself is also a matter of spiritual life. In other words, it is hard to believe, and to have hope for the future, when you are hungry, and when there is little prospect for a better life. I don’t think that poverty and hopelessness are necessary components of Islam, or of any religion, for that matter. We should come to believe what nourishes the body and the soul as well.
Dear Nissim
My discussion wasn’t about traditions and the need to preserve them or not. Actually I am more prone to being anti-traditions. Traditions are social habits which were developed for specific purposes. Many times we preserve those habits even though the purpose has been over passed. Maybe we need to have a set of predictable behaviors. Moreover; they are means of social coercion; something I am vehemently against.
I don’t support social chaos; and disrespect for the habits people prefer to follow. Yet, I am critical of traditions which constrain for no specific benefit for the individual or the society.
My discussion was about making financial gains the drive of social structure and morality. So though I am very critical of values and traditions that marginalize women, but not from an economic perspective; rather from a moral one. The economic gains of giving people their rights should never be part of the argument.
If I may add:
In my opinion; one can roughly say that humans live between one of two imperatives: the survival imperative; and the growth imperative.
The first focuses on sustenance; and the second on the nourishment of the human potentials.
The primary drive of the first is pleasure and alleviation of pain; and the primary drive of the second is morals.
The main value of the first is “me” the main value in the second is “us”.
The problem is that we sometimes get stuck in the survivalist mode even after we achieve sustenance. When the case should be that we move towards the other end when sustenance is achieved.
And of course the above doesn’t neglect or disregard the competitive reality of this world; it merely points to how we should handle it without losing a sense of our humanity.
rasha:
ok, i have a question which has landed me onto this chatroom in the first place. you live in saudi. a friend and i were discussing the basic law, and although i realize that most women are better cared for, live a lets say, “wealthier lifestyle” and are more protected than in other western states, they arent allowed to have an identity card, cant work without explicit permission from a male family memeber, and even so the limited choice of type of work. SO IM NOT TAKING ANY SIDES, because A)i dont live there, and B) although i tried searching womens rights issues and saudi law, there isnt anything clearly about women at all in the basic law, but these womens rights activism websites are vague as well. theres the whole concern for womens rights violations, but its mostly from a western point of view, and we all know how irrelevant it is from an islamic viewpoint(ie: they harp on the “forced dress code” and stuff like that which as a muslim we understand is mandatory and why)so, whats the real deal? and although i wear a headscarf and consider myself and active muslim,im also a career oriented super independant woman. im asking for your viewpoint from one muslim to another, without defense or apology.
Well.. Nyla this is from my own view point,
1st f all.. most women DO NOT live a wealthier lifestyle. Yes there are a number of rich families and these are the ones you see when you travel but believe me they are far from being a majority.. actually the average Sandi’s income I would say would be about 1600 dollars/month. This is not based on a study. It is an assumption and believe me there are soooo many who make less..
I wouldn’t consider that rich especially that we have a very high birth rate, interestingly more than 70% of the Saudi population are younger than 20 yrs of age. I also read somewhere that more than 60% of the Saudi population do not own their homes..
Actually.. these days I hear that many women are being used by either their husbands or even fathers. Some take the woman’s salary and give her an allowance from that salary!
Women are cared for in many ways I agree but she is being used and abused too by the people who are supposedly caring for her too. There are no clear laws that protect women and there ought to be laws that protect women from violence, harassment of any sort, rights protecting her money, to open a business, to work and study without a consent, to be able to open an account for her children, to choose a schools for her children, to take care of her children if divorced, to have an operation /surgery done without waiting for a guardian’s consent, to be taken by an ambulance if ill without need for a guardian, to travel without need of consent, to be able to get a passport without a guardian’s consent..
As for identity cards, only recently we were acknowledged as citizens and given identity cards but not all women applied for them.
All this focus on the dress code is silly.. there are much more important matters to tackle in relation to women in KSA.
A woman can be independent, career oriented and a Muslim. A head cover never stopped a woman from getting an education or a degree. Most women cover up by choice but there are many who do so because of social pressures and due to fear from the Islamic police (matawaa).
Society still has a thick leash over women. It will take us a very long time to change from within and not because of western impact on us rather there is a big change happening within the family structure and society that forces us to make changes. There is a very high % of divorces and a very high number of single women.. So we really need to make a plan to empower women to be more independent to be able to cope with new changes and challenges ahead..
WHY WOMENS ARE MORE COMING TO ISLAM.
New Muslim Reverts This Ramadan! ( Allison Poole& Barbara Cartabuke) in New York, post-9/11 CNN Interview:
More And More People are Turning to Islam, especially after 9/11. September 11 has led to the media giving Islam a lot of attention. Although, the media has mostly reported negatively about Muslims and Islam, it has made people research about Islam. This has led to many to find the Truth about Islam and readily accept it as their faith.
CNN states that 1/4 of the 6 Million Muslims in the United States are Revert Muslims (Converts).
Allison Poole was Raised as a Southern Baptist Christian. She became Muslim this Ramadan. Alhamdulilah! Since becoming Muslim, she feels more at peace and finds Islam has made he life much better as she has the right belief in God. Her family is completely behind her decision, but she finds fellow Americans still misunderstand Islam and say bad things.
Barbara Cartabuke is also an American who has found Islam post 911. She was a Catholic who always felt praying to Jesus and reading Hail Mary’s was wrong. When she found Islam, it was a breath of fresh air and answered all her questions regarding the reality of her existance and of true belief in God.
————————–http://www.turntoislam.com/———–