The Arab obsession with Palestine
January 31st, 2008
Yes, I said it. Arabs are obsessed with Palestine. Apparently, many Arabs seem to believe that Palestine is our one and only tragedy. Often when we campaign for other things, a lot of people angrily write us back with, “What about Palestine?”
What about it? Is it not enough that it has hijacked every single news hour, every single newspaper, every other conversation, every other blog? Of course it is worthy of this attention, what is happening is horrible and people need to stay aware. But there is so much more than awareness here - there is a consistent obsession with this Palestinian conflict that so many Arabs love to collectively rave about, despite not proposing or doing anything to help solve this problem or the Palestinian people in general.
Secondly, when fellow Arabs are racist against Palestinians, I don’t see anyone being revolted by it. Like the numerous Arab Facebook groups wanting Palestinians out of their territory. And who could forget the Kuwaiti author who once wrote that most Palestinians are backstabbing and are thus deserving of death?
Almost no outcries from the public. Why? Because apparently, Arabs are only wronged by the “enemy.” We’re so perfect and precious to ever wrong ourselves.
In one of my classes, a student once noted that we have to focus on the genocide in Darfur. I found it hideously offensive that most of the people whined “Why Darfur? What about Palestine?” - when in fact hundreds of thousands of Darfurians were being brutally raped and murdered, a number that is completely incomparable to the death toll in Palestine. The damage that took place there in a matter of months was far worse than what Palestinians have been going through for decades. Yet here we are, complaining about Palestine, forgetting and dismissing the other crimes against humanity that are happening in our name as Arabs and Muslims.
I am not saying we should forget or underestimate what is happening in Palestine. But I am asking my fellow Arabs some essential questions here.
Why didn’t people rally for justice and peace in Darfur when the situation was far worse and many more lives were at stake?
Why didn’t people rally for coexistence with religious minorities, who are often wronged in our societies?
Why didn’t people rally for ethnic minorities and abused foreign workers, who are taken advantage of and enslaved by the millions?
Why aren’t people outspoken about honour crimes in Muslim societies?
Why only Palestine?
As you all know, Mideast Youth leads a lot of wonderful projects. Whenever we launch a project, we have a mailing list of 1,000+ which we notify. At least 60% of this list consists of Arabs from all over the MENA region. Almost every single newsletter I send, I receive a horrific amount of baseless and self-important responses that bash this network in general for not being pro-Palestinian enough (which apparently makes us “self-hating Arabs,” because you’re only Arab if your life revolves around Palestine.)
Apparently, and according to dozens of these “activists,” none of whom are actual Palestinians, we are doing a horrible job and we have neglected our own brothers and sisters in Palestine. How so?
By not obsessing about them?
By focusing on the minorities whom no one cares about? The Baha’is? The Kurds? The genocide in Darfur? The sexual slaves? The migrant workers? Young women and men being flogged to death in the name of “honour”? Chinese bloggers who spend as much as a lifetime in prison? Helping Afghans in need of support? Trying to establish connections with countries that the Arab world has forgotten, countries where millions of people are crying for help, countries or issues that we often dismiss because it’s not our beloved “Palestine.”
I am sickened by this destructive obsession.
I am sickened by the way people treat us for choosing to fight against issues that for once, are not about this conflict.
I am sickened by the question, “what about Palestine?”
Please remind me, how many rallies took place in defense of innocent Darfurians? How many newspapers demanded action and justice against honour crimes? How many news networks revealed what the Baha’is are suffering through in many of our countries? How many people cared enough to focus on foreign workers in an attempt to abolish the widespread slavery in the Gulf? How many people in this region cared to network with Afghans who come from a country where many people are without electricity, an education, basic rights, an opportunity to communicate with the world, where the life expectancy is below 40?
How many people stood up and echoed the voices of the voiceless? Must one obsess with Palestine in order to be taken seriously?
You want to work on improving Palestine and the lives of its people, fine, that is admirable and fantastic. But don’t you dare undermine other struggles on the premise that Palestine is more important. We have other issues; and while the entire Arab world is writing about, talking about, fighting towards, and obsessing about Palestinians (a lot of whom are discriminated against by their own Arab neighbours) we are going to put a lot of time and effort focusing on the other issues that affect the lives of millions of individuals in this region and beyond, knowing fully well that not many care to make these other crimes the focus of their struggles, even when it’s often far worse than the Palestinian conflict.
I want you ALL to understand that these other issues also matter.
So the next time we launch a network, don’t ask me about Palestine. Don’t tell me I’m a self-hating Arab simply for not feeding your obsessive agendas that bore me to death. Try to get your head out of your butt and realize that other important struggles take place, and be kind enough to allow others to address these issues respectfully in peace, instead of making them feel like shit.
I am confident many people are going to take this the wrong way, and try to paint this post as “anti-Palestinian” propaganda, and this reaction will exactly prove me right.
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Dear Esra’a,
I follow your posts with the utmost interest. As a westerner (I’m from Italy), and despite I consider myself quite careful to what happens in the world “outside”, I didn’t have a clue that the Arabic world was obsessed with Palestine. In the West, Palestine is hardly a subject of conversation, out of a narrow circle of politically committed people. Two days ago I was talking with a friend who didn’t know anything about the Gaza strip blockade, and could not understand why Palestinians suddenly tore down the wall across the border with Egypt and flooded in to buy stuff. On the main news channels they of course talk about Palestine, and Gaza, and Abbas’ meetings etc. But the people here are tired, distracted, not interested in understanding the problems there. I don’t know if you ever heard of this italian comedian, Roberto Benigni. He got an oscar award for the film “Life is beautiful”, about the nazi lagers and the shoah. Once he made a show in which he was wondering what’s going on in Palestine. He said: “Do you have a clue of what’s going on there? I can’t really get it, they have been fighting for 60 years, if I was a diplomat I would go there and shout ‘What’s up?! Come on, tell me, what’s up?! What’s up!?’”. This shout, ‘what’s up?’ really expresses the total lack of references (to interpretative schemes) people in the West have about Palestine.
It is therefore surprising (but maybe not so much) that in the Arab world it is so deeply different.
Keep up the good job!
Hi Luca, thanks a lot for your post, but I will argue that this point:
Is true about all struggles here, not just the Palestinian one. Whether people are listening or not, Palestine still does make the worldwide news, and no one here is saying that it shouldn’t. You are much more likely to find people in the West who are familiar with the Palestinian situation - but ask if they know anything about Afghanistan, foreign workers, Baha’is, Darfur, etc. Most of the other conflicts go globally and locally unnoticed, and that is why we focus on them instead of Palestine. This is my main argument. Not that Palestine shouldn’t be focused on or fought for, but rather, that people stop making this the center of our lives, and calling other Arabs “self-hating” or not “Arab enough” simply for not being as obsessive about this conflict.
I’d venture to say that this is a problem everywhere, not just the Arab world, but obviously for different reasons. Palestine is glamorous in the media, at the dinner table, in the op eds. Israel, as a holy land to so many, is just the most attractive and controversial thing to pay attention to.
I too am sick of it. I love this site because I have learned so much about so many other cultures, problems, religions and more.
The best thing we did is give an opportunity for everyone in the region to speak - we didn’t stop at Israelis and Palestinians. You’ll find a lot of underrepresented minorities here and this is precisely what makes us powerful and constructive.
The term “Arab” these days seems to have been raped by political ideologies. You’re only a real “Arab” if you represent this or that political party, this or that religion, this or that type of activism. I interviewed two people before who said exactly the same thing: An atheist and an Arab Jew who weren’t regarded as “Arabs” simply because they did not have the right associations.
Cut us some slack.
Do I also have to remind people here how many Arab “activists” and “free speech advocates” refused to help or support Kareem Amer simply because of what he wrote?
Hypocrites.
This “obsession” is actually not “for” Palestinian rights VS Israeli apartheid state-you can easily notice the weak impulsive rhetoric coming from Arabs every time al-jazeera makes some noise about a crisis in occupied Palestine-but rather this obsession is rather “against” an okayed “enemy”, against the oneness abstracted enemy we know nothing about but its flag.
Our countries are ours, we cant criticize them for “criticizing” them means “attacking” them. and no one should ever attack her own nation, her own “identity”, her nation cannot be racist or sectarian or homophobic, and we treat women just fine. we’re the good guys, remember? Hence it’s way much easier to attack-not criticize- the bad guys.
I think because the Arabs are attacked everywhere, locally and internationally, and on all levels, they are feeling defensive and their response to these attacks is by blocking any calls for any sort of national change, which necessary needs questioning and deconstructing the nation’s structure and basis first, in order to get into the process of reforming national attachments to one’s nation; it’s not you being “syrian” makes you syrian really, but your very responsibility towards your citizenship makes you one. But the arabs don’t need to disbelieve in their nations, they’re all what it’s left for them, just the way they are.
I wouldn’t mind at all, if the common argument “for” Palestine is original, but I am afraid one’s “classic” reading of her own nation necessary reflects one’s “classic” reading to the Israeli-Palestine conflict. One cannot defend Palestine against racism and colonialism and occupation and war crime and human rights abuse by Israel towards the Palestinians when her own country itself suffers from human rights abuse. What made us pro-Palestinians is our belief in justice and not our hatred to the enemy, we believe in justice for Palestine, for everyone, and for ourselves too.
I’m not even getting into this!,I’m fed up!, but I certainly agree with you Esra’a and Elisheva completely.
Hi Razan, it’s not at all a question of being pro-Palestine. I proudly support Palestine. My argument has nothing to do with the current state of Palestine and everything to do with how people react to us when we tackle other issues that have nothing to do with Palestine, issues that are just as important, if not more so, such as Darfur for example.
Unfortunately it has gone as far as being an obsession, and sometimes even a diversionary tactic used by our governments when they want locals to focus on something other than their own human rights abuses. I find it very painfully misguiding when people contact us and say that we are not Arab enough simply because our activities do not revolve around Palestine and its issues. It is disgusting to work so hard fighting for regional human rights when the reaction is so often, “what about Palestine?”
It’s not an issue of identity or politics anymore. It feels like we are being imprisoned by the very people who claim to be “activists,” who insist on limiting our own actions while narrowing everything down to “Palestine.” It is unfair and repugnant.
Palestine receives a great deal of attention from Arab activists and students, which is great!
But that means that the rest of us have to tackle other issues that are just as important and horrific.
I only ask that people please allow us to do this without insulting us and questioning our identity.
Damn, it’s about time someone writes this! I wholeheartedly agree.
I also agree Esra’a. I found my way to this site through Leah mentioning Reiki in her article and now I find the people, information and views here fascinating. So I hope no one minds my humble opinion.
I can feel so much anger from you and from your article it’s obvious the responses you have had over a period of time have generated this. I assume it won’t stop you or detract your efforts as to be helped and encouraged instead of been emailed “you are not a true Arab” and “why don’t you focus on Palestine?” is not a prerequisite for your efforts.
But support sure helps doesn’t it?
As you say, it sounds like an obsession. The thing about obsessions… they’re not rational. If someone here works for breast cancer research and I say to them “what about prostate cancer? That kills more men!” it is not going to encourage more research into prostate cancer. And it’s not logical. But effort is required to all causes. I agree about Darfur - you could add Zimbabwe and a whole host of others to the list. The list is long, but for some the list is short. For some the list is only Palestine. The list is still the same - it’s just how muhc of it people are interested in.
Sorry for the crazy analogy. But this is what you battle against, inside, when you receive those responses, I feel. It’s easier to swim with the current isn’t it?! I hope your strong adjectives above are enough to divert the flow…
It’s easy for me to say, but don’t feel like shit. I can only guess at the set-up you are part of and the threads that now interlink so many people in your region because of this site and project, which you are part of. You and your colleagues will have had so much support from people’s hearts in the past, present and will continue to have from now on.
And you can add me to that particular list.
Esra’a
A very wonderful subject ( as usual). I guess it is not only us, I guess it the the people in that region not knowing exactly what is happening, I guess they are also very much frustrated with the fact that whatever they do is not enough to bring about stability wich both parties need there. I guess a factor that contributes the the delay of any thing good enough happenning in the process of agreed arrangements, is the interference of different people with different views, who really don’t know what is happening there in the region. They don’t know there is a life and there is a collaboration, there is interraction, even though the unsettled set of affairs doesn’t allow for more light reflecting what should be reflected.
It happened that I hear the Iranian retired embassador of African countries, he was talking aobut the relationship of the embassarods in that particular country. It is very clear that The palesitian and Iranian ebassadors in a gathering could sit together and talk, then some one passes and the Palestinian shakes hands with him and they hug one another, the way we do in Middle East. Iranian asks him who was this man? Palestinian says, you don’t know? he is in the Israeli embassy. The Iranian gets so annoyed!, The Iranian could not understand how come and Israel and Palestinian could be friends, but that is where the Iranian is wrong. People of that region live a day to day life together, the only thing that really aggravates is the conflict which does not allow for natural life, the conflict needs to be settled, the Palestinian and Israelis agree on some thing, any thing , then they sign it and be faitful and responsible in keeping what they signed respected.
There are many beautiful things there, the wolrd of Islam, Judaism, Christianity, Bahaism they all are waiting to come to that Holy region and step into the land where the holy prophets stepped. We are awiting for the children of the holy land, where Palestinian Muslim/ Palestinian Christian/ Israeli to be the hosts while we all come for pilgrimage. I can visualize this very brightly and I am very positive we will all apply for visas and see each and every point of the holy land. Esra’a would you take us from Middle East? I want to go with you
Thanks for the post. I also agree. People show no outrage for other conflicts in the ME, just Palestine.
My history class that I am taking right now is really, really informative. My professor has a PhD from Princeton and can get down to such details during the lectures without notes its amazing. The Arab/Israeli conflict is a perfect example of irony. What that irony is I will leave to your imagination…
In any case it has taught me some really interesting things regarding the situation. Violence and rhetoric, i.e. Hamas, Hizbollah, Iran etc…will fail. History also shows that aggression and over-reactive retaliation are also formulas for disappointment, i.e. Israeli bulldozing etc.
From my own reflective imagination I would take cases in point that similar struggles happened and the oppressed eventually got their way. Cases in point: India and England, African Americans during the 60s. Both utilized the respected tactic of strategic non-violence. of course there was exceptions but that method worked.
Can anyone venture to guess what would happen if the Palestinians simply resisted and strike with non-violence? I know this is a little off topic but it has been something thats on my mind for a while.
Coming back to speaking out for the Palestinians and how too many people nag about how MEY doesn’t do it enough, those who care and can make a difference about Palestine are, including MEY. Strangely this very discussion is in its own way bringing attention to the problem. Right?
Omid
It is nice that you share what you hear in the course you are taking.
I think the best thing about MEY is that people inform each other with what they feel and what they think. It was not possible some time before. It does make a difference in an overall view of people who communicate and share their views. I can see at least the overall imact. I am very excited about talking to Saudi womena and Israeli women at the same time, or having the opportunity to ask questions from the sects in my country, whom otherwise I cannot ask them questions. I cannot imagine a very immidiage outcome, I mean an outcome substancially significant, but I have much hope in the future, as the interaction of people within a conflicting region is made possible via a system as such. I only hoped the limits of language profeciency wouldn’t prevent beautiful thoughts of some people, many youths in the region and out of it, from contributing to the forum, or expressing their ideas here. I guess there are some attempts for a Persian forum for instance, but how would people of this forum be informed about the other, unless translators play a role here. But this is good and I am happy for having this chance to coomunicate with this wonderful people of our region, and out of the region but concerned
I think the reason why certain people have an obsessive/compulsive disorder over the Palestinian issue is because they can use it to comfort themselves by saying, “in this situation, WE (Arabs and Muslims) are victims at THEIR (the West, represented by the Jews) hands, and therefore what is happening is not our fault or responsibility, it’s theirs” regardless of how true it may be. On the other hand, Darfur, honor killings, and other other situations you mention don’t feed directly into the victim mentality. In those situations, people actually have to work to create social change instead of just demanding other people do it for them, and well, who wants to work when they have the option of insisting that things be handed to them on their terms?
I’m sorry to say, but for some reason, too many Arabs have become institutionalized into thinking that they are not available to do good works on behalf of others because they are convinced they’re being victimized and therefore, are not available to conduct public outreach on behalf of others, which of course is just not true. There is a lot to offer by the Arab community to make the world a better place and to cultivate humanity that has yet to be maximized, even under the Middle East’s current social conditions, and we’re gonna tap into it, whether the wannabe victims like it or not. Irresponsible leaders of the past have created this mess, but new leaders will correct it. The MENA region deserves no less. Keep up the great work, E.
You are so right my friend. Palestine has become like ASPRO/ASPIRINE. You have a headache = Aspirine, you have fever? = Aspirine!! Lack of democracy?=Palestine, lack of liberty = Palestine, Corruption in our countries = Palestine. Palestine has become the sole comon denominator for all the troubles and mishaps of the arab and muslim world. If Palestine did not exist, I wonder what would have happened….
I think Esra’a has a reat point about “a diversionary tactic used by our governments when they want locals to focus on something other than their own human rights abuses,” but there’s something else that needs to be considered. Regardless of how provocative and inflammatory it might be.
Why didn’t people rally for justice and peace in Darfur when the situation was far worse and many more lives were at stake? Are they being killed by Jews?
Why didn’t people rally for coexistence with religious minorities, who are often wronged in our societies? Are they being wronged by Jews?
Why didn’t people rally for ethnic minorities and abused foreign workers, who are taken advantage of and enslaved by the millions? Are they taken advantage of and enslaved by Jews?
Why aren’t people outspoken about honour crimes in Muslim societies? Are the victims being killed by Jews?
I think the ironic thing in all this is that those same people who wave the flag for all Palestinians everywhere are keeping Israelis from dealing with the Palestinians and finding solutions that will work for both peoples.
I will give myself as an example: I am an Israeli citizen who wants there to be a Palestinian state. In fact, it is my Zionism that leads me to the conclusion that every people has to have a safe place to call home that they can be free in. When I hear words like “apartheid”, “ethnic cleansing”, “all Israel’s fault”, etc. I shut down and refuse to listen and assume the whole world is against me. Actually, you would think the Arab world could understand this seeing as how that is how Arabs and Muslims are treated by the West (“terrorists”, “fundamentalists”, etc.).
Wow… It’s nice to see everyone agreeing. I guess that wasn’t to be expected. Even if we have different reasons or beliefs… We can all agree that there are OTHER issues to focus on in addition.
Yes, very nice to see everyone agreeing for a change. YAY!
Great post Esra’a, time is ripe for your way of thinking.
I remember saying something to this effect a few years ago on a Moroccan message board. Things turned ugly, it was as if I said something blasphemous or even worse. They disowned me. Things have changed a lot since then. People in the Arab world are slowly but surely including “outsiders” in the much needed exchange of ideas.
They just need to continue resisting the urge of having to “keep our dirty laundry to ourselves”, openness and transparancy is the best way to go. And you’re doing exactly that here Esra’a. Keep up the good work girl!
2 b honest, this issue of palestine unfortunately has been hijacked by all sides in da arab world; da secularists and liberalists, arab nationalists,islamists,radicals, u name it—it has been used as a litmus test not just for all arabs but also for all muslims (of non-arab origin)—i think da palestinian issue has been very badly exploited that not just non-arab muslims but even arab,both muslim and non-muslim, r now sick of hearing da palestine problem—first of all, while palestinians r arabs, and most palestinians r sunni muslims, and some palestinians r secular and some r islamsits, this does not mean that the issue should be magnified 2 da extent that it becums an arab issue and definitely not a muslim issue—lets be honest about it, da arab league is 2 polarized between havenot states and have states—saudi and gulf countries care about themselves and give more emphasis on da GCC council; regarding da OIC, that group should be abolished since there is no sense in keeping that impotent group. one day the palestinian issue becomes an arab one; the next day it becums an islamic one; the third day it becums strictly a palestinian one—-and now palestinians r fighting each other like wild animals—i think that that non-arab muslim states such as pakistan,afghanistan,uzbekistan,bangladesh,indonesia and malaysia should start diplomatic relations with israel if it is indeed in their national interest irrespective of what da palestinian govt. thinks—if da arab league complains, then they can give da example of egypt and jordan who have diplomatic relations with da jewish state—da rest of da arab states will then automatically follow 2 establish relations with israel if it serves their national interest—this will put pressure on both hamas and fatah that da whole arab and muslim world is going ahead and if they dont give up petty politics, then they will be da ones 2 lose—i know this sounds harsh, but lets b clear, da arabs r not united, muslims r not united, sometimes it arab vs non arab, sometimes its haves vs have nots sometimes its secular vs religious, sometimes its arab vs persian, somtimes its sunni vs shiite,—-i mean this has only prolonged da suffering of da palestinian ppl for whom i feel so much pity—their own govt. as well as da arab govts. have exploited them as mush as america, europe or even israel has—and now da iranians r exploiting them—since da creation of israel, a third generation of palestinians r living in abject poverty and in refugee camps while their leaders pimp 2 rich donors for their luxury—their rich arab brethren in saudi and gulf just want them 2 diappear,(though they never say that publicly) and da rest of da arabs and muslims r 2 impotent 2 help them. this is da bitter ground reality—since da last sixty yrs, has palestine been liberated??? despite the theatrics and violence by yasser arafat, abu nidal, qadaffi,king faisal, king fahad, saddam hussein, nasser, sadat, mubarak, khomeini,osama bin ladin,aymen zawari,—-despite all da barking,speeches and funding by these imbeciles, has palestine been liberated??? after da first gulf war when kuwait was liberated, all palestinians were rounded up and tortured, beaten and many killed only becuz a dozen or so palestinians collaborated with da occupying iraqi authority—they have no national passport, r spied on whichever arab country they go to work for, except for jordan where most r of palestinian origin, can be easily manipulated and exploited and r expendable—in western countries, same thing, palestinians r subject 2 search and suspect since technically they dont have a real country. Da bottom line is, no body has ever been sincere 2 da palestinians nor will anybody ever be—only palestinians can be sincere 2 themselves and that can happen when palestinians c themselves first as palestinians and not arabs, muslims or christians, secularists or islamists—-otherwise, sorry 2 say, they will only prolong their own suffering and they deserve much better than that.
Wow, what an education! I used to think that Palestinians were the dumbest of the dumbasses in the world. After 60+ years of getting their butts kicked by Israel, they’re still buying arms, rioting, attacking and getting their butts kicked again…..stupid! I used to say “When you start seeing “documentaries” about the Holocast on TV, that’s when Isreal is fixin’ to kick Palestinian ass.”……and was right 9 times out of 10! Palestine has been used by every ME country, and some outside of the ME, as an excuse or scapegoat for all kinds of killing, wars, attacks….etc. USED!!!! Nobody really gives a damn for those people, most americans think they’re wild animals. Ask Ray, he’ll tell you. When someone says “hey, I’m Palestinian”, people automatically look at them like they’re diseased…..or out of their head. Discrimination? CRAP! I don’t want to be around anybody that has a mental problem! Or “has terrorist ties”.
Palestinians are being held hostage by people that have agendas that have nothing to do with their plight. I think some of the responders to this article touched on that. Who are these manipulators and what is the agenda? THAT is the big question here. I think that many of the things Esra’a talked about are really related, at some deep level, with the Palestinian “problem”. What is the common thread, and where can it be traced to? I think we know, and nobody wants to say. I certainly have my opinion what the root cause really is, but I want to hear what y’all think. Thanks.
Konrad,
That’s probably the most ignorant and racist comment I’ve ever read on here. I’m curious to know, do you honestly feel that way? Palestinians are dumb animals associated with terrorists? I didn’t detect any sarcasm, so I’m asking you.
If you’re in fact being serious, then this is so beyond the purpose of my post. It is these kinds of reactions that actually justify the obsession people have with Palestine.
I’d like to thank everyone else for their insightful comments. Josh, thanks a lot for your support.
Although this might sound weird coming from a Saudi, who’s nation favors sticking The Palestine Crisis in every single class, But i actually side with you on this..
I’m not going to comment anymore than the great replies read, since i don’t repeating points :D, but i have to press on one issue i have in mind on this..
The Palestinian crisis seems to be, to me, as a two sided coin where people flip in the air, and then whatever the media settles it’s falling side, they go with it.. One side is pure hate for the Jews and Love for the islamic relation it has to us, and one side with complete racism against the Palestinians.. You’d see it in our streets.. You’d find a middle aged man, ranting about how we Muslims must feel sad for Palestine, and then when sees a Palestinian, What Konrad said would seem as baby talk..
Most muslims even have a new name for Palestinians in Arabic, i dare not to share it here..
However, the constant religious brainwash that most arab countries endorse, which is practically Dogma in a new name, is forcing people to be sad and enraged about Palestine.. you’d find it in every Friday prayer that the Imam has to mention Palestine at least once every 2 months.. While the imam never even thinks of bringing up Darfur for example..
I don’t blame the people for being enraged, but i blame them for submitting like sheep and losing focus on other neighboring nations that have blood shed rivers flowing down the country sides..
It sickens me as well.. Thus, i think spoke enough before i write a blog in the comment box
Esra’a.. Am with you on this, and sorry for the late reply, exams just passed over
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Yours,
Lou..
You are very welcome Esra’a. Honoured to have a personal reply from you - polished my ego nicely
If you want to talk or whatever, please let me know.
More power to you and yours and as for support - have a Reiki hug
Esra’a, with respect, I don’t think you really understand how things are here in the states. I am not racist, just honest. What I stated is an assessment of facts as we, as outsiders, see the middle east. I worked in a factory in Detroit where many arabics also worked. They kept very low-key after 9/11 because the emotional tension was so volitile. There is no racism, per se, but there is fear and anger and very strong feelings about the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. The people in the Army and Marines are not rich college kids, they’re factory worker kids that can’t afford to go to college without the money they will get from the Army to go to school. Many are overseas and in danger and it makes people here angry….but not at the government. The society over there is so strange to us here, we don’t understand too well. Many people fear and hate what they don’t understand. There have been many fights in High Schools and in several social settings, where it’s no longer black vs. white or vs. oriental or vs. American Indian or vs. latino. The fights are between arabs and everybody else (right or wrong). Some kid will show some “attitude” and the next thing is a fight. Usually it has to do with “disrespecting” a female of another group. A few years ago there was a huge fight between arabic and “country” youths at a public park over “dis”ing white young ladies. I really know what predjudice and racism is. I was raised on a reservation for native americans and was picked on because I am Apache but look white. I got it from both sides. Nowadays, everyone tries to remain cordial….but it’s there, right under the surface.
I never could understand why the Palestinians never just took their licking and went on with their lives….ignoring the jews. That’s what we Apaches had to do with the whites….and the troops that finally defeated us were black! Maybe we Apache are more pragmatic. Seems sensible to me, as there are more of us now than when Columbus discovered America. We were the lucky ones. I think that’s what Ray Hananian’s friend is trying to do. Ignore Israel and get business and education going in Palestine….hope he lives to make his vision come true.
Truely sorry if I offended. That was not my purpose….but truth should come out. Americans can help, if their minds are changed about the ME.
Hi Konrad, I don’t doubt your intentions. I’m sure you mean no harm. However, referring to Palestinians as stupid animals is being blatantly racist. I just know you’re a lot wiser and smarter than this.
Just a friendly FYI - they’re called Arabs and not Arabics.
Thanks for your comment, but here, we try to stay away from rude generalization. We value the diversity of perspectives though and it’s perfectly normal to offend others without intending to. This issue in particular is very touchy, and elsewhere, these discussions can end up being very nasty. Thanks for your apology but I hope you realize why it was offensive. I’m sure you didn’t really mean it that way.
Hi, Lou,
“…in every Friday prayer that the Imam has to mention Palestine at least once every 2 months.” What does he say? What is the message about Palestine that is preached in Saudi mosques?
It’s preached in every other mosque in the Arab world, not just Saudi.
Basically they just talk about how we should all unite and protect it, for they are our fellow Muslims. And if something happens again they sometimes rally around the mosque with Palestinian flags and all that which is funny to me because, it’s not like anyone is watching. Rallies are only effective if you do it in front of the relevant areas - like in front of embassies, governmental buildings, the UN, etc. But then again I guess that’s the only way certain people know how to react. Hold a flag and scream obscenities.
I’m amazed at how well this discussion turned out. It was super exciting to read all the interesting responses.
Well done everyone. This website is now officially my favorite!
Well, shoot: that doesn’t sound bad.
MyTwoCents,
Well, Esra’a did a very good job answering that..
In the essence, looking at this alone, then yeah, it’s not bad at all.. We are all muslims who should pray for each other and stand for each other, in peace of course..
But here’s the tricky part, when you tend to focus your words on specific cases more than other cases, it kind of ruins the wide diversity Islamic preachings should cover.. I mean, is Palestine the only islamic state that is under attack? or even under the threat of being wiped? or is it the ONLY islamic tragedy? and what happened to islam caring for other Human tragedies? or should we only preach about Palestine??
The rest of the logical and islamic world differs..
If we should focus on palestinians all the time, then we should change the name of the Friday islamic sermon, to the Palestinian Preachiness of Islam.. They tend to make you feel like Palestine is the only one out there to look after, and they’re toying with the common public’s religious commitment, to the extent of making a pointless Rally in Saudi in-front of a Saudi mosque about palestine that no one heard about..
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.
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Yours,
Lou..
[...] Zuender Startseite » Blogs » joerg lau Samstag 02.02.2008 Debatte Schluß mit der arabischen Palästina-Obsession! Von Jörg Lau | 12:52 Die kluge Esra’a (eine 21jährige Studentin in Bahrain) von Mideastyouth hat wieder einmal einen streitbaren Artikel geschrieben: Gegen die obsessive Beschäftigung vieler Araber mit den Palästiensern, gegen deren Schicksal alle anderen Krisen der Welt verblassen. Ein Plädoyer für die Weitung des Blicks. Großartig. Ganzer Text hier. [...]
Not at all. I don’t know why people have this idea that we’re a bunch of hateful guerillas running after Jews with machetes. I’m sure you were expecting to hear something like, “death to the Jews,” but really, most mosques now have stopped that and in fact, in several Muslim countries it is against the law to spread such messages.
We’re decent people. Like every other group we have our few bad apples, but we really don’t want anything more than peace and stability, just like the rest of you.
I’m sure that if you thought about it you would rememebr incidents — both recent and historical — that might have given folks that impression.
Yes, I was. So… if that’s not the reason for the obsession, then what is?
Only stupid, pathetic folks judge an entire region by very few incidents.
Arab nationalism.
Are you saying that there have been “very few incidents” of Arab violence against Jews?
Arab nationalism? Ummm… maybe, but if that was the case why have Arab nations historically done so little to help the Palestinians?
Whenever I criticize the government of Zimbabwe, or Pinochet, Saudi Arabia, Indonesia, Columbia, or my own, nobody accuses me of being a nazi or to send me to some country that I’ve never been to. I can’t say that about the times I’ve criticized Israel. It’s way easier to say anything negative about the Bush admin or the Iraq war, even-in that case people generally are at least receptive to hearing different points of view-but there’s this very visceral resistance to discussing anything related to Israelis/Palestinians with any modicum of sanity that is just uncomparable to how we treat any other issue over here, and racism plays a huge part in that. It really sucks to say the least.
Though almost all the people I personally know working on these issues are actual Palestinians or they’re Jewish, and most of them are also active and/or supporting people working on Indigenous issues at home, I don’t think you can downplay that as a factor.
As for the people that like to use Palestinian cause while they don’t give a shit about the actual people and treat them horribly, yes, I am sick of it, I’m sick of the people that use Iraq in the same way, too. I agree with most of your post, but I also think that the right, by stifling and marginalizing any meaningful debate of the issues, are ironically strengthening the batshit insane people on the fringe.
I know this post is about MENA and not the atmosphere in North America, but some of the commenters are going there so I thought I would, too.
I think it’s really disgusting where you’re trying to go with this discussion.
Get on topic.
On topic: You asked, why Palestine — what is so special that the Arab world obsesses on it? I am offering you a very plausible theory as to why that is.
It is not “disgusting” to suggest that antisemitism is a factor; refusing to consider the possibility would be illogical. You ask what is different about Palestine that it gets such a different reaction: I’m pointing out a really big difference between the suffering in Palestine and the suffering in Darfur and elsewhere. I believe that Palestine is unique: I can’t think of anywhere else that an Arab population is victimized and oppressed by Jews.
It is not “disgusting” to think that maybe, just maybe there might be a small number of people in the “Arab world” who were sometimes just a little bigoted against the Jews. If such people do exist, then very likely they’d be shouting “What about Palestine?” at every opportunity, since it would be an huge humiliation for them.
If a measurable amount of antisemitism does exist in the Arab world then it is almost certainly a factor in the unique reaction to the unique situation. What if a newspaper editor is antisemitic? He’d be inclined to give more coverage to Palestine than Darfur, right? Can you tell me that there are NO antisemitic news editors? Or school teachers? Or historians or screenwriters?
I am on topic, Esra’a: I am answering your question. It is a theory worth considering that “the Arab obsession with Palestine” is partly fueled by the indignity of being bested by Jews. Will you tell me that there are no Arabs who feel that way?
You come off as quite racist to me. You are the reason why I hesitate to post such self-critical articles. You twist everything for the sake of feeding your poor generalizations of what most Arabs and Muslims are really like.
You seem to think that Arabs are the only ones who feel anger towards another group of people or race, likely due to the kind of exaggerating and misleading news you expose yourself to. I don’t see you talking about Christian fundamentalists who think Muslims are the “devil” and who often advocate nuking Iran or Mecca, our holy site. I don’t see you rebuking Konrad’s argument that many Americans consider Palestinians to be animals.
Stop being such a bigot and realize that just like some Arabs feel anger towards certain people, there are many Americans who feel this way about us too. Am I making this clear enough for you? You are likely to close your eyes and scream “oh gosh, Antisemitism!” at any form of criticism that you come across and disagree with, and this is why I increasingly find your comments here to be revolting.
As much as I am sick of people obsessing with Palestine, I am even more sick of the “Antisemitism” card that people often pull out whenever anyone would criticize Israel and its policies, or whenever anyone would talk about Palestine and Arabs.
And for the record, no, you are not being on topic. Your reasoning is ill-informed and based on petty generalizations, and is far from having the value of the kind of discussion that we were having until you had to interrupt with your self-important comments.
I am not interested in your generalizations. Find a new argument. Otherwise, stop commenting on this thread with your silly misperceptions of us and of how Palestinians really feel.
I’d like to add that I know Arab Jews personally who obsess just as much about Palestine, it’s funny how often the pro-Palestinian Israelis are referred to as “traitors” or “self-hating.” It’s another side of the same coin. Of course if an Arab-Muslim mildly criticizes Israel, there’s no debate. It’s just blocked out as outright “Antisemitism.” And then you wonder why it’s increasingly hard to have a successful dialogue.
Seriously, you can stop whining about us hating Jews now. Read a book or something. This situation is far more complex than what you have in mind.
I hope we can all go back to what this post is really about.
Very well said, Esra’a.
Point to the spot where I implied that. Can you? If you can then I will leave the thread. If you can’t, then I guess readers will know how much your comment is worth.
What do you know about my reading habits, Esra’a, except that the list includes MEY? Do you actually have any information about “exaggerating and misleading news” I’ve been exposed to, or are you just poisoning the well ?
Yes, there are Americans who are bigoted against Arabs: what does that have to do with “the Arab obsession with Palestine”? Not a damn thing, so what’s your point, except to divert criticism by changing the subject?
Isn’t that what I said? Or does “certain people” not include Jews? I theorized that there was a measurable amount of antisemitism in the Arab world: are you telling me I’m wrong? If it exists then it’s a factor, if it doesn’t then I’m a misinformed fool (or bigot). So yes or no: is there antisemitism in the Arab world?
Ill-informed how? Is there a factual error? Is there something I have overlooked? Ill-informed how?
Write an article about them and I will comment. On this thread it’s just another Randall Jones style red herring. “Get on topic,” as you said earlier, and Christian fundamentalists, nuking Iran, and Konrad’s crap aren’t on topic.
Not really, Amal. She failed to present a logical refutation of any point I made. She failed to present an alternative explanation of the phenomenon being discussed. She employed personal insults and introduced red herrings.
That’s not an example of “very well said,” that’s an example of “why it’s increasingly hard to have a successful dialogue.”
Look, either there is some antisemitism in the Arab world, or there is not. If there is, then my explanation of the obsession is plausible and should be considered objectively, not angrily rejected because it hurts your feelings. If there is NOT, then I am misinformed, foolish, bigoted, evil, or some combination.
So who wants to step up and claim there is no antisemitism in the Arab world?
You made no argument or valid points that can actually be refuted. In fact your whole comments in this post aren’t worthy of any attention and I can’t believe I’m still taking the time to respond to you. All you did was spew us with your insipid stereotypes in such an arrogant manner that makes me feel nothing but pity for you.
Stop spamming us with your anal propaganda. Antisemitism exists everywhere, even in your darling USA. Stop taking our posts and turning them into racist, shallow remarks. I am sick of it. We have a comment policy against such racism here - make an effort to follow it, or don’t post here at all. I could not make this any clearer for you.
Actually, like I said before, it has a lot to do with it.
Arabs get more and more obsessed with Palestine the more ignorant bigots like you shower us with stupid and baseless remarks that paint our fellow Palestinians like a bunch of animals running after Jews with grenades. You justify everything I wrote about.
Arabs get more and more obsessed with Palestine when the entire world screams “Antisemitism” at every damned opportunity, even mild criticism.
And I bet some Arabs feign their obsession with Palestine just to piss people like you off.
And don’t flatter yourself by referring to your ignorant comments here as “criticism,” it really just sounds like irrelevant mumbles of some troll.
Seriously, go whine about Jihad and Antisemitism elsewhere. We are bored to death with it here. See your luck with the Jawa Report or something.
Finally! Now that it’s finally on the table that antisemitism exists in the Arab world, let me ask:
If it’s true then why am I ignorant for thinking it’s true?
If it’s true then why am I a bigot for saying it?
When you think that’s all our mosques discuss in our prayers - then yes, it’s quite ignorant and sad!
Because you said it without acknowledging the fact that it happens everywhere. “Can you really blame me for thinking you guys are all antisemitic terrorists” - basically, was your implication. Of course our mosques don’t preach such hatred, but what would you know, anyways?
Crap.
Point to where I said or implied
You can’t.
More crap. Here’s exactly what I said:
Liar.
Would you stop editing your remarks AFTER you post them, please? Just in the interests of a fair discussion.
I really agree with Esra’a’s post, though it’s a point that I think is important to make within MENA region and not so much in North America, where I think Nadia’s comments apply really well. There is an obsession with Palestine. I don’t think that Palestinian’s deserve less caring, but that other, less accepted cases of oppression deserve more- and I think Razan is exactly right that there is so much focus on Palestine because Israel is an “accepted” enemy. It’s always harder to criticize something in which you yourself or your own society are implicated– and that’s what it would mean, to talk about Darfur, or the case of foreign workers in MENA, or Baha’is and minorities. That’s the real difference- not that people care so much about Palestinians, because in fact, aside from caring about “the cause”, there is huge racism against Palestinians in MENA.
So in that sense, I think MyTwoCents is right that it is in part about racism– because it’s the fact that Israel is an “other” that makes it so easy to care so much about its wrongs. That doesn’t make those criticisms of Israel’s human rights abuses incorrect, or even motivated by racism– it’s more that they are enabled by racism. They can flourish because they are targeted at an other. It’s very similar, I think, to “the West”’s or North America and Europe’s obsessions with so-called political Islam and human rights abuses in MENA- it’s easier because it’s pointed against an other, and it’s enabled by racism– even if the actual criticisms are sometimes correct.
So unfortunately, I think it is in part about antisemitism. I saw, on Y-love’s blog, a video from Iqra tv interviewing people in Saudi Arabia about whether they would shake hands with a Jew. Now, Y-love dislikes the source of this video, as it comes from MEMRI and was posted on Little Green Footballs– ie it comes from nutty neocons. But even though their motivations are in the wrong place, the content is true– there is a massive problem with antisemitism in MENA. The attitudes and situation of Middle Easterners in North America is, unfortunately, not relevant– any more than the attitudes of expatriate Israelis negates the prevalent racism in Israeli society.
I can understand wanting to correct people that use their awareness of racism in a society to demonize it– ie, to tell MyTwoCents that Middle Easterners are not aliens or evil, to tell some people that Israelis are not aliens or evil. But both groups have serious, serious, insidious issues with racism in their societies. I had a friend in Haifa who was Palestinian-Israeli but very light skinned and spoke really good Hebrew. He told me sometimes about things people would say about Arabs near or to him, not knowing that he was Arab. When I lived in Egypt and Palestine, I used to pass as a half-Arab raised abroad, and I heard lots of things about Jews that I don’t think would have been said in my presence had people known I was Jewish. I imagine those Saudis in the Y-love video wouldn’t have been so rude to me if I was speaking to them. But that doesn’t change the fact that these discourses exist within our societies, seriously seriously racist and insane discourses.
Finally: just because Arabs are shitty hypocritical racist antisemites, doesn’t mean that Palestinians don’t deserve equal human rights. And just because Israelis are shitty hypocritical racists, doesn’t mean that Jews, Baha’is, Sri Lankan maids and people in Darfur –and /even/ Israelis– don’t deserve equal human rights. I happen to think equal human rights includes cultural respect, lack of derogatory discourse, etcetera. Equal human rights within America for African Americans includes a lot of non-material goods related to culture, stereotypes, discourse. And human rights sure as hell includes electricity, movement, water, and education– the very right to live, which is violated again and again in Gaza, in Balata camp, in Darfur, probably in worker housing in Dubai and in servant quarters in Lebanon.
I don’t know exactly how those immaterial human rights for Israelis in world society can vibe with valid and correct critiques of Zionism. It’s a difficult question, one that I imagine we’d all answer differently– we often put the scale in different places, especially if it does or doesn’t implicate us. I think as long as we all try to be aware of what is easy for us to criticize and what is difficult for us to criticize, we’ll be on the right road, even if far from where we need to be.
And for some fantasy:– if I were king, I would tell mosques, let’s have a Jewathon, and every time one Muslim goes and has one cup of coffee with a Jew, the kingdom donates $100 to a Palestinian charity of choice; and tell the synagogues to have a Muslathon, and everytime one Jew goes and has one cup of coffee with a Muslim or Arab the kingdom donates $100 to an Israeli charity of choice. Said kingdom would of course not be giving military aid to anyone. Were’s my Emirati sheikh to fund it??
PS- I don’t think Arabs or Israelis are any of those things I said above. Well, not entirely. No more than anyone else.
PPS- I hope the little fantasy doesn’t seem like its painting the conflict as if it’s even, or just a case of mutual prejudice. I think maybe the pan-Mena racism issues are. But not the I-P conflict.
Israeli Jews (and Jews around to the world) do assume that is what is still said and believed all through the Islamic world. It is partially what keeps fuelling the distrust. It is great to hear that this is not the general case anymore (although even that it even was said in the past disturbs me).
I expect it will take years for Israelis to stop having this image of Muslims as Jew hating. From my experiences with groups in conflict this is pretty normal: a group stops believing something (or stops verbalizing those beliefs) and it takes a generation or two to undo the damage. I still have Palestinians telling me that Israelis don’t believe there is a Palestinian people because Golda Meir reportedly said something to that effect in 1969. We have been calling them Palestinians for 15 year but Palestinians haven’t heard yet.
It sounds stupid but it would be great to have a posting of what Arabs and Muslim currently believe about the conflict (and vice versa). It would save a lot of time so we are not always reacting to what someone somewhere said or did 10 years ago
Lisa, GDOLA! your fantasy idea is amazing.
The only thing I would add is that in order to get the money donated, you have to just listen and not speak. It is another thing that unites Arabs and Jews: we are terrific at giving our opinion (which is always right!) and terrible at actually listening.
Lisa thanks for that, you are totally right, I wish I had the energy to tackle these massive debates. I wrote the comment I did because it looked like the commentary here was going where it almost always does with this subject, and I think it was worth touching upon.
My2Cents, it would be great if you could do us all a huge favor by growing up. This is what you said:
In other words, you had expected us to say “mosques preach antisemitism.” And when we said no, you were surprised. “Well shoot; that doesn’t sound bad.” Why? Because you’re ignorant, and instead of learning something from the others here you come to us with such arrogance and ask, and I paraphrase here because I cannot bother swifting through your shallow remarks anymore without wanting to throttle myself, “can you really blame these [racists/Islamphobes] for feeling this way?”
I do. You bigots have a lot of learning to do.
This discussion between you and me is clearly over; so unless you want to get personal, take a hike. Seriously.
And for the record, I edited this twice. Because I can. Whenever and however often I want. Hush your sassing.
I wish MyTwoCents would shut up so we can all go back to having a respectful and interesting debate here. Can we all somehow forget that this commenter exists so we can focus on what Lisa and the others are discussing?
Please, if this thread is going to be taken over by this idiot, a moderator here has to fix it. I hate to see this wonderful discussion hijacked like this.
The way I see it, the reason why there is so much hypocrisy and confusion out there is because this is the way the international community (the UN, governments, and a lot of NGOs) defends human rights:
The official rule book:
When defending human rights,
1) sit back and identity the problem with pomp and circumstance;
2) condemn the offending party;
3) tell the offending party, in a condescending manner, to clean up their act or be punished on your terms;
4) decide upon punishment on a subjective, ad hoc basis;
5) claim solidarity with the victims (but offer them nothing of substance);
6) use shame, humiliation, and the words, “shock,” and “outrage,” as much as possible against the offending party;
7) if you try to use money to solve a problem, do not ask for accountability;
8 ) send politicians and military specialists to broker peace rather than conflict resolution experts.
Unofficial rule book:
When defending human rights,
1) always make sure your own political agenda is met;
2) consider the parties involved in conflict to be stupid, rather than emotional, and in need of having their behaviors corrected — particularly by you;
3) feel free to dump your own personal anger and hostility into someone else’s conflict as long as you act self-righteous about it;
4) take sides in a long-standing, entrenched conflict rather than be neutral and foster healing;
5) see if you can make money off it;
6) do the bare minimum to improve a bad situation while trying to use it to bring as much attention to yourself as possible;
7) consider yourself educated, and perhaps even declare yourself an expert, after a week’s reading on the internet;
8 ) if your hostile, negative energy is counterproductive to a conflict, so what, just keep doing what you are doing;
9) constantly pat yourself on the back;
10) do not ever disrupt the status quo.
I completely agree with you Esra, but that is expected from an alleged Zionist like me! So good luck and as Muslims often say.. “God give you strength” (I am sure you know the Arabic phrase better than me)
Yes, I had expected you to say “mosques preach antisemitism.” I had expected you to say it for the sake of honesty, but that was back before you even admitted it existed. Now that you’ve taken that step, maybe you can admit that some mosques do preach antisemitism? Not all of them, not most of them, but it does happen and everyone here knows it. Everyone here also knows you can also find examples in schoolbooks, TV programs, movies, and newspapers.
I’m not going to argue it with you anymore. I’m not going to post links to youtube or arabnews or israellycool. You admit antisemitism exists in the Arab world: if you want to pretend that it sprang up out of nowhere with never a hint in any sermons or schoolbooks or newspapers then you go right ahead an pretend that.
For the record, you can also find plenty of antisemitism in the US.
You get your wish, Murad: I’m out of here. Now you can forget I exist and focus on what Lisa said: “MyTwoCents is right that it is in part about racism”
Hello-
Esraa, I love your introductory piece. It is very brave and very important. Re My two cents’ idea about antisemitism in the middle east: Of course, she is correct. No, it is not existing everywhere in the world. If i were to consider wearing a star of david on a trip, i would do it in the far east, as well as some other places, but def not in the mideast.nor is it everywhere in the mideast. However, it is so overpowering there that it is almost not recognized, especially when it becomes relatively milder. Jews are not even allowed in saudi Arabia!
Good! I am happy to see Murad’s wish granted. Funny how the people who say you are right are actually not from our own societies, so don’t you brag just yet. You’re still a loudmouthing bigot.
Yes. Antisemitism exists everywhere. In Europe, there are tons of antisemitic groups and graffitis. Even in Australia. Concerning our countries in the the Middle East, you certainly should not judge an entire society by what a certain government does. Since when did our countries represent us, anyways? We don’t live in a democracy.
Also, consider this:
- Jewlicious
This is also being “okayed.”
I don’t know why people use Saudi Arabia to argue about antisemiticism. You do realize that this country barely recognizes the rights of its own female citizens, you expect them to acknowledge the rights of others? Barely an argument.
This is politics. It’s not religious or cultural or societal the way people here so often claim. We are not responsible for our government’s choices. Is that so incredibly hard to believe? It makes me so disgusted seeing people like My2Cents claim that many of us have this reflexive anti-Jewish attitude, it’s the furthest thing from the truth. Did you know that Jews in Bahrain for example hold a lot of influential positions, and despite them being known to be Jewish, they are rarely discriminated against? There are tons of foreign investors or employees who also live in the country and are openly Jewish. We have Jewish MPs and human rights activists. The King even asked to build the Jewish community a synagogue. I don’t see anyone commending this kind of behavior, but then of course, everyone is too busy arguing that we Arabs are anti-Jewish and that all our mosques do is basically preach death and hatred to Jews. It is getting extremely tiring!
If you guys want to walk around being blindly racist (I consider My2Cent’s attitude to be quite racist, yes) and yelling antisemitism at every sick opportunity, go right ahead. I won’t stop you. I’ll just laugh at how ignorant many people are of our societies and how the majority of us really think. I’ll let you all judge us as people by what you see on TV and read on the news, while defending anti-Arab remarks and the growing Islamphobia across the world.
As much as I don’t agree with My2cents wording and tone, I think you are missing his point. Sure, his beliefs about Arabs and Muslim can be interpreted as racism. But since his views reflect the dominant views of Jews around the world (mostly in Israel), racism is not the intent (even though it has become the bi-product). I would advise all of you to take Lisa up on her offer and take a Jew out for coffee and talk about the fear of being a Jew.
We see the world as a very dangerous place for us where we have no place to be safe and we will never be safe. This paranoia is based on 2000 years of history of oppression. The majority of that oppression happened to Jews in Europe but the Middle East was not free from anti-Jewish incidents under Islam and all Jews know this. A Jew today even whose grandparents came from the Middle East will view the world as inherently anti-Jewish and will never feel safe. We can theorize that Jews have deep psychological problems seeing anti-Semitism where there isn’t any, we can theorize that Jews “use” this aspect of the culture to feel more Jewish or silence debate/criticism of Israel- I would agree with all of this. But it will fall on mostly deaf ears. People who have undergone multigenerational trauma will view the world as a dangerous place even if nothing ever happened to them. We carry the stories with us in our culture which influence how we view the world.
If anything, I would expect Arab’s history with colonialism and western influence to be the bridge of understanding here where Arab and Muslim history with the west has created a culture of anger and frustration. I suspect that none of the authors in this forum have been physically colonized but you are all feeling the effects after many generations.
Firstly, the gender is throwing me off. Let’s pick a he or a she and stick with it.
The Kurds can say the same thing. Everywhere they go, they are discriminated against and become part of a powerless minority. In Iran, Turkey, Iraq, and Syria many were oppressed for decades. They, too, suffered a painful history of murder and genocide. Even today, they are severely oppressed. Many are disrespected, disregarded and ganged up on no matter where they move to in the region. I don’t see them complaining about Kurdophobia at every opportunity, even though they have a bigger reason to be paranoid (i.e, they did not secure their own land and thus can never feel safe as a mere “minority” in the ME.) Unlike Israel, they don’t have one of the most powerful militaries in the world nor do they have influential leaders represented in the world’s most powerful governments. They are the largest ethnic minority, without a sovereign territory and with hardly any international support. You cannot say the same thing about the Jewish population or Israel in general. Kurds and Baha’is are even more oppressed in many Middle Eastern countries than the Jews currently are, making Jews no longer the most oppressed religious minority. Even the IRI tolerates them more than they have historically tolerated Baha’is and (ethnically, Kurds) in the country. Ditto for Turkey and Syria.
I find this paranoia to be the basis of a lot of destructive mentalities and a lot of “okayed” racism and enemies too. The entire world cries and protests if a Jew were to be arrested or killed simply for being Jewish in the Arab world or Iran, yet I do not see this reaction when Baha’is and Kurds are arrested and tortured simply for being Baha’i or Kurdish.
Why? Paranoia? Fear? Really, that is the best reason you can give me?
And so?
We should do what exactly, sit back and watch you all call us a bunch of raging anti-Semites? Simply because you’re admittedly paranoid? How do you expect us to accept this offensive attitude towards us? What inspires this feeling of wanting special attention and treatment when most of us do not take part in this anti-Jewish battle that people seem to be over-exaggerating? Do you realize that a lot of the Arab activists for Palestine are also Christian or non-religious at all? Obsession with Palestine is political. It’s not religious, nor is it based on violent hatred. By “destructive obsession,” I meant forgetting the other crimes, the kind of crimes that many Jews in the region are also involved in being inactive towards.
In any case, I cannot believe you guys are justifying this absurdity. Maybe someone here should write a follow-up post about the Jewish obsession with Antisemiticism, it is extremely comparable to my issue of the Arab obsession with Palestine. It is becoming increasingly common that no criticism is allowed of either Israel or certain Jewish leaders/public opinions for fear of being labeled and stigmatized, and for fear of having your organization get dismissed as “anti-Semitic.” I am simply appalled at this twisted and oversimplified attitude.
What’s even more sickening is that while many Arabs and Muslims are obsessed with Palestine, many Americans, Israelis and Jews are also obsessed with antisemitism, and therefore in this process, in the midst of their kicking and whining, the other HUGE CRIMES go unnoticed! Wake up and look around you at who is really suffering, people! Look at the Sunnis in Iran, do you know what they have historically went through, even under the Shah? Who bothered winning justice for these families? Who bothered writing about and talking about it? There are less than 5 books about the suffering and persecution of Sunnis in Iran. And despite them also representing a minority, persecution of Zoroastrians is also rampant. How are Baha’is treated in much of the Arab world and in Turkey and Indonesia? Do you protest it? How their houses get flogged with stones, how they are refused to preach or speak about their faith, how the governments refuse to acknowledge their existence. And while there are many Jews in the region living prosperously (in Bahrain at least they come from successful families,) we have millions of migrants living off of dirt and packed by the dozens in rooms the size of a shoe. Who cares though, right? Let the human rights groups and the international community focus on Antisemitism. Slaves don’t matter.
My God, no wonder we are in such a mess. People think Palestine and antisemitism are our biggest problems. They think this is the heart of our struggles and the basis of our chaos. We are still bombarded with racism, stereotypical bullshit and the usual Islamophobia vs. Antisemtism debate in every blog, news network or book. Too bad no one gives a crap about the real victims.
I have never been to Israel , I support a palestinian state. i criticize the settlements and always have. I am not religious. I never or rerely have experienced antisemitism.If i did, it was a mild dislike of the ‘other’ which i felt was understandable and subject to change and consideration. I still do not think antisemitism exists all over the world. Why should it?
and btw- Bahrain does sound quite nice, perhaps a place to visit for a jew. Sometimes political systems do not represent exactly the little man, sometimes it does. I am old enough to realize that it is very, very complicated. Yet, i still stand behind what i said earlier.
No. It’s just us Arabs, of course. We are the source of all evil in this world. I totally forgot this. Thanks for reminding me, dear.
FYI, about the supposed hatred of Jews in Bahrain, here’s something for you guys to stare at for a while until it sinks that we are nothing like what you make us out to be.
- Wiki
Oh, how horrible!
Not to keep repeating myself, Esra’a, but I felt the need to tell you once again that your previous few comments here were very well said.
wow- Bahrain sounds nice- but u are some twister of words and ideas! and DEAR, i am old enough to be your mother, for whateverthat is worth.You just seem to be antagonistic in your approach, despite some of the very good ideas in MEY site.
Care to cut us some slack and make it clear what your argument even is, then? Antisemitism doesn’t exist everywhere, apparently only in the Arab world. This is what I assumed you were writing about.
If this is not what you are saying, then please, make an effort to be less vague in your comments for people to understand your implications.
No idea what I’m supposed to do with this little piece of information. I am fired up and cannot be bothered to kiss anyone’s ass right now, sorry.
Wow Esra,
Frankly I am completely shocked at your response. I am telling you how I feel as a Jew. It might be irrational, it might be ridiculous, it might be many things but it is how I and many Jews feel. Telling me to get over it is not helpful. And worse, you are taking my words and taking them on a tangent of ideas I never said based on your interpretation.
I told you these things not to whine but to explain what the majority of Jews think and view the world. The idea was for Arabs to get insight into WHY Israel acts the way it does and not to be told I am wrong to feel this way. You are not required to do anything other than listen to how others think. I thought that was the point of this forum, to create understanding.
And I am not allowed to articulate a reaction? I am also telling you how I feel as an Arab-Muslim. What’s your point?
Seriously, is this your version of “understanding,” listening without reacting to your responses?
I found lots of comments here to be utterly offensive. I’m not going to sit back and watch my post turn into a pathetic “it’s because they hate Jews!” debate. Urgh.
Esra’a, I think you are an amazing person, I respect you and you know how much I love your culture. However, I think that you are misunderstanding the intent of MyTwoCents and Corey, and responding in an overly harsh manner. Further, I think you are belittling the presence of antisemitism in the Arab world. I have traveled and lived there, I have many friends and I continue to watch Arab media constantly. There is a serious problem, and I think you are making it small because you feel that MyTwoCents judges you or Palestinians as sub-human because of this problem. I can understand this response, but please understand, it is similar to an Israeli feeling that someone is judging him or her as subhuman because of the racism against Arabs in his society, and so then the Israeli claims that that racism is not so bad. That is a cowardly response. It is a response where one’s own reputation is more important than truth.
Here is that video from Y-Love: http://thisisbabylon.net/2007/11/29/saudi-iqra-tv-would-you-shake-hands-with-a-jew/
Esra’a, you know I don’t think Arabs are “the source of evil” or anything like that, but I think antisemitism there is at a level completely different to the level anywhere else in the world.
I don’t think any of the people above were saying that all the other human rights problems you mentioned don’t matter. But they were saying that antisemitism in the Arab world exists and is a huge problem. That doesn’t mean it’s the only problem or even the most important thing. But it’s not right to deny this thing.
So that’s my two cents. I can see where everyone is coming from, but I think that she and the others are responding with misunderstanding at what Corey and MyTwoCents are saying. Further, I think these responses are coming with lots of personal, harsh attacks, and I think it is not constructive at all. Esra’a, you don’t have to agree with anything, but you would do well to respond in polite ways. Further, you do the dialogue a disservice by assuming so quickly that you have understood what the other person is saying. Your descriptions of what MyTwocents and Corey are saying seems, to me, very far from what they actually wrote. Maybe you are coming at this based on what others have said, or what others do say. But you are attacking these two people based on things they did not write.
It seems like this debate has become personal and emotional– it’s escalated, as conversations do. Why doesn’t everyone take a break from the subject and come back to it in a few days?
Where did I deny it?
I said I was just sick of people reducing everything to “it’s because of the anti-Semites, it’s because they hate Jews,” without EVER bothering to question policies or other possible reasons that may have led to this obsession. It is offensive to me when this is the only thing people expect from us. And I have come across many of My2Cents’ previous arguments here, this is not a well-intentioned and reasonable person.
And by the way, Iqraa TV is offensive to everyone, especially women, not just Jews. It is hardly representative of Arab media and television. Furthermore, this is not a participatory outlet. The views here are not representative of the majority of Arabs and Muslims. It is unfair to assume so.
Sure, we’ll let our friends here go back to believing that they are the victims of everything.
Everyone here is now missing the entire point of this article. How sad it is to watch this discussion sink to such pathetic level of self-important ignorance.
Hi Esra’a and all,
I’ve followed this comment thread since my last post, having gone through a few emotions, none of them nice.
Esra’a - you make some good points and I will be one of those not from the region so perhaps not understanding, but after limpia wrote how you are antagonistic in your approach and I saw your reply about been fired up, it finally made me smile. You sound like and remind me of me.
I read the thread becoming more confused at the tangent you went off at regarding been accused of Jew-hating and so on. I probably missed the part, but it seems you also took things unsaid as implied and intended and read people’s thoughts behind their posts. I found Corey’s post quite articulate and balanced but your response took his points as attacks and you certainly articulated your reaction to that…!
Hmm. Too deep for me to get fully involved. your point about the Kurds is equally valid, and it IS hard to stay on topic when your excellent initial article covers an obviously difficult area.
I’ll end for now by saying that the Esra’a who wrote that article, does not read to me as the Esra’a who is fired up full of anger and taking other’s points as slights. Your tone is bad now. Apologies if I’m missing the complexity of the situation - maybe people here can read other’s intentions behind their posts better than I. I am willing to learn.
Josh
Fine. I am horrible and ill-mannered, oh woe. I have no right to be offended by ignorance and racist stereotypes, and I have no right to be angered at the way many Jews paint themselves to be the most oppressed people in the ME when it is far from the truth.
i never said, nor do i believe that antisemitism only exists in the middle east
Not at all. You are not horrible for a start, perhaps a little ill-mannered
You have those rights you outline - but they must be accurate and evidence-based. I’d compare notes with you about the above posts and see if the others here paint themselves as you say. Otherwise I’d agree with you but you do know that we’re talking about the people posting here and each other’s responses. How many people in the ME portray themselves - that’s another discussion thread.
Hug,
Josh
Too bad this great opportunity for dialogue is slowly turning into a fingerpointing match instead of placing ones self into the other’s shoes regardless of how abrasive their arguments may be. Nevertheless, overall there seems to be one common denominator in pretty much all the comments here, there’s at least a willingness to make an effort towards creating a better understanding. Please don’t let this chance go to waste.
I think Esraa’s responses to my2cents are completely apt.
So do I, and if anything he/she totally deserved her attitude (by calling her a liar etc.)
If I had anything to apologize for, it would merely be my attitude, and not at all any of what I said. I stand strongly by my argument, and I seriously cannot help but get pissed at the idiocy.
Speaking of idiocy, take a look at this article: Arabs think about human rights — but not for Jews or Gays.
The gay thing I would agree with, but the article barely focuses on that.
I love how Saudi Arabia is like, the only example. “omg, we’re not allowed here” - omg, I’m not allowed there without a male guardian and a hijab either! They must hate me! The entire world hates me and is plotting my demise! omg
Funnily enough the author of that post is also just as ignorant as many people here are about the real victims in Arab countries. There are no mention of the most oppressed minorities but I guess I can’t blame people who are self-important and who only seek for their own rights with a complete disregard for the rights of others. While many Jews live peacefully and prosperously in Arab countries like Bahrain, the UAE, Qatar (hell, Israelis are even allowed to go to University there!), Morocco, Tunisia, Lebanon, and others, there are tons of minorities suffering silently. This retarded conflict has hijacked absolutely everything. You can’t even say “human rights” without people making you choose between Muslim or Jew, Israeli or Palestinian, as if no other struggle is worth our efforts. And Jews/Israelis/Palestinians are like, what? Barely 10% of our overall population. Do you realize how many people that leaves out?
Unbelievable. Someone give me a punching bag.
LOL
I agree with most of your comments and how you handled mytwocents, but you were rather harsh to Corey and limpia. Totally on the mark though!
I don’t know how else I could’ve reacted, I wasn’t getting personal.
What am I supposed to say if paranoia is being used as an excuse for this kind of mentality? “oh ok lol thx i had no idea. srry!!” I won’t apologize if people’s feelings and egos get hurt. I get hurt here all the time and I never get an apology. This is all part of a passionate discussion. Sensitive people shouldn’t comment if they’re not willing to step into the heat.
I’m not going to sit back and watch everyone complain about antisemitism and then get told “we do it because we’re paranoid.” Stop being paranoid then! We’re not grus! We’re not going to kill you! We’re too busy enslaving and abusing other minorities by the millions. And we’ve been doing it for decades. But shhh. You’re more important.
Morning Esra’a. All I can offer is that I don’t put everyone in the same bucket - should take people as you find them. And I find there seem to be ingrained thoughts and responses which is only natural.
Am sure people just focus on those they connect with and know about - some people have a wider scope that’s all.
I think you did get personal with some of the things you said, which saddens me.
Why don’t we focus on the crux of the issue and explore other reasons for the obsession, like your article suggested?
Josh
I don’t take what I said back. I was offended and something like this can never cease to anger me.
It’s kind of hard to do when everyone else is whining about antisemitism.
I think you should take back the personal things you said. But if you were offended as you say, I can understand, even if I don’t agree.
I know it’s hard to focus but those going on about antisemitism are just focusing on one explanation you see. I’d suggest it’s better to accept it as ONE possible factor, then push the discussion onto other aspects.
And I know you can do that.
I’m aware of what I said and frankly it’s still nothing I’m going to apologize for.
It’s ironic and quite hypocritical.
Their obsession with antisemitism is not better or less serious than the Arab obsession with Palestine. It’s just as destructive and misleading. Moreover, it’s downright abusive when it’s being used to justify the rampant Islamophobia and hatred in the region. Like this recent article in Haaretz. Rarely do people apologize on behalf of such fear-mongering writers, people instead ask, “can you really blame them for feeling this way?”
Yes, I do. People should stop justifying their own ignorance and take responsibility for their stupidity. It’s our job to educate ourselves, it’s our job to learn about and from others. This is not happening here, I sense no real dialogue, we are being manipulated into saying something that feeds the many damaging stereotypes that we’ve been suffering from for years. People come here to preach their own ideologies without caring or listening about how others feel or think about it.
The way many people reacted to this article made me realize a lot of unfortunate things about how many Americans and Jews regard us. This is no matter to dismiss. It is a very sick reality when it’s justified and okay for people to constantly treat us like a bunch of enemies.
If a Muslim wrote that article in Haaretz, replacing “Islam” with “Jews,” people would scream antisemitism, MEMRI will translate it into 6 languages, right-wing bloggers will insanely link to it and everyone would break a bone. But this is okay, because it’s Islam being shamelessly insulted, not Jews or Israel.
Anyways, I’m just sick of the whole thing, really, I couldn’t care less who’s feelings get hurt anymore or who insults whom. The point is; you’re all doing it at the expense of real victims who deserve all of this energy. I really will not bother fighting this useless war because there are dozens of others who deserve my attention; not this, and not antisemitism.
I can only repeat that I’m saddened by you not retracting your insults then. I understand it, but reading it from the side like I am, I see your words as full of hate and bile as those you took objection to. Now, is that also ironic?
I agree that those obsessed as you say, are also been destructive and misleading people. And it does take a lot to change people’s regard. In this, I think your hatred in your comments, compared to your excellent article, contributes to hatred, not understanding.
The reality grows more ill.
Tell me about other aspects of the obsession Esra’a. I want to know what you think.
I posted and then saw you edited your last post. I wish I could too. I agree with what you say about swapping the names and seeing a different reaction.
But your last passage - you seem to lump me in with others: “you’re all doing it” - is that right, for me too Esra’a?
I hope not.
You must be really sensitive, then. Hate is a strong word and no one here inspires or deserves such emotion from me.
No.
I am angered, not hateful. I’m not going to walk around and hug people when they are trying to deceive me into feeding their ignorant perception of us.
Am I not allowed to be offended, Josh?
Am I not allowed to respond with anger, if I was wronged and equally insulted in return?
Am I not allowed to be sick of the way we are being treated by people who seemingly want to have “dialogue” with us? That whenever we post such self-critical articles, articles that criticize our own religion, our own culture or society, they use it against us as weapons? Pitying us instead of helping us, looking down on our societies instead of admiring how many are fighting and risking their lives to fix it, being incredibly self-centered and replying as if they are culturally and morally superior? That instead of learning from us, they use our words as ammunition, attacking and consistently insulting who we are?
And by “they” here, I mean the commenters above, the kind of reactions that we so often get on here. It’s always the same thing and that’s why I let myself get this angry. For many months now I’ve been letting it go in the name of “good and welcoming discussions,” but I realized that all this time I was letting them get away with treating us this way. I won’t sit back and watch it happen anymore.
I’m sorry, but no one here earned an apology. And treating me like a child, asking me to kiss everyone and apologize, is not going to change my mind or how I’m treating certain bigots.
I don’t like double postings, so when I want to add something, I just edit my comment, adding to it but not removing anything, so that the reactions still stand.
I also do it to get on My2cents’ nerves, a new hobby which I’ve recently developed.
I am quite sensitive I suppose, but am looking at this from the outside - have a look again at some of your words about others. And it IS ironic as I feel you contributed to this comment thread falling into what seems to be the same pattern for those in your region.
You are allowed to be offended, but to respond with anger? Do you ant to claim that right? As the author of this, I thought you would control the comments instead of feed them in the wrong manner. I think that posting self-critical articles like you have deserves HUGE respect from me at least. It’s why it hurts to read how you have responded since then…
If people use it against you, that is their choice! You can coordinate how you feel and respond, to achieve what your article aimed to.
I know you are angry - there is no blame for that. And I don’t mean to treat you like a child - I am typing this way to control myself as well, as I could also jump into this with a lot of anger, mostly on your side. But I want to focus on the good that you wrote about, and support that strength. I don’t ask you to kiss anyone! I know what you mean, but am asking you to take the harder path - and argue with control, for what both you and I know is correct.
I’m sorry too. Am glad we’re both online now, to keep talking…
I understand not liking double posting, but I cannot! And also I respond to your first post, see mine appear then see more of what you said - crosses communication, but oh well…can’t stop you
I rarely allow myself to get this angry. But this time, like I said, I’ve been swallowing this down for months and it’s time for me to express how I really feel. There is no way for me to express this with moderation right now, believe me I tried. I simply can’t. I am way too pissed off for that, I really don’t care what this makes me look like.
I know. It’s fairly clear to me this is not the usual you. Not from your article anyway. A release of something built up is rarely pleasant. So I accept your release. I think you’re in Bahrain so will arrange to send Reiki to you as well, hopefully it will help.
*hugs you*
Tell me about the other aspects for the obsession, in your opinion. Please.
I kind of outlined that already in my post, it has a lot to do with the fact that this conflict is really the only one where Arabs feel united, it also feeds the Arab nationalism that I TRIED to bring up in the midst of this whole “no, it’s the Jews!” fiasco. Some of the most staunch supporters of Palestine are also amongst the most staunch supporters of pan-Arabist ideologies. You often read signs of support that state, “today, we are all Palestinians.” Collectivism gives us a sense of hope and unity, two things that the Arab world is missing. If it weren’t Israel, a common enemy would be Iran. But we do not really bother with them while worrying about Israel, because many Arabs believe that Iran at least has some of the shared qualities: Islamic (even though, like I said, Sunnis are severely oppressed), anti-West, anti-Israel, pro-Hezbollah, allying with Syria, etc. It is these shared qualities that people look for, it doesn’t matter that Iran has claimed my country as their own for years and tried to initiate wars on several occasions and is trying to fund pro-regime militant groups throughout the Gulf. No, we don’t worry about that. We want to feel secure knowing that we have something shared that we can all yell at. Together. As a “team.” No other human rights issue brings us together like this, politically and religiously and thus, no one bothers fighting for it.
My point in the post is why we can’t we have signs that read we’re all Darfurians, Kurds, or Baha’is too. Instead of memorizing every single date having to do with Palestine, why can’t we also mark the genocides and crimes that happened around us, some of which happened by us and in our names.
And this point, entirely, was missed. Ironically, people came here and made it all about themselves, all about their own victimization. It was incredibly hard for me to sit through such comments when many people just like, refuse to get the real idea.
Oh yeah. And another reason why I wrote the article, is that I didn’t just realize this obsession, it was always there. My main problem is how many people, so-called “activists,” were calling us self-hating Arabs because we actually care about the other crimes that take place.
To me, this is utterly disgusting. Increasingly as more people find out about this website, it is a very common reaction to ask what project we are doing to help free Palestine. And when we say we’re not doing any as millions of such campaigns already exist, the bashing starts. We’re the CIA, we’re Zionists, we’re not Muslim or Arabs and we divert attention from the biggest tragedy.
And my point is that this ignorance is just so widespread that people really DO believe now that Palestine is the one big tragedy that we have to drop on our knees for and weep over, and turning a blind eye to the slavery, the honor crimes, the other things I listed. These things are also forms of terrorism. Just because it happens by us or in our name, doesn’t mean we should dismiss it. I wish many Arabs weren’t proud enough to admit that.
Good post.
Hmm. Yes, we all like to have a common focus and gang up - nice to be part of the group with common values. I suppose the fact it is Israel makes things easier to focus on them, with the history of the country’s creation, the wars and so on. Suddenly that is the main thing, the only thing, and it’s close to home, always a good aid to ignore things further afield.
When you talk about having signs saying “we’re all (insert word here)” it makes me think of muslims and how that is also a community to itself. But if it’s buddhist monks in Burma… not sure if that would be mentioned in the mosques, or the dates noted as you say. Evangelicals in Texas probably don’t worry too much about the oppressed Sunnis in Iran either!
So yes I agree - it’s not about any religion really, or ethnic group, which bit of geography you were lucky/unlucky enough to be born on - it’s about been part of a group, a collective, whatever that is. Arab nationalism is the group - give it a focus and you receive conflict.
I suppose until we all accept we are part of the biggest group - been human - and we are all part of that particular collective, irrespective of personal/political/religious/ethinic differences, this will continue to happen. Need to crack people’s minds open to the wider “group”.
Gah, hate your second posting, woman!
I don’t mean hate really
Yes that is probably a more immediate point - as you say, so many are aware and focus on Palestine, need to have people’s minds open to other areas of suffering. We should talk more about this I feel.
This is due to lack of awareness, more so than lack of interest, I would say. Burma barely made our news. We’d easily pick (and then glorify) a suicide bomb attack than focus on any other global or even local issue. Our governments love that. Every time something happens, a human rights abuse, just throw Palestine on the front page and watch people reflexively tune everything else out. It’s reached a point where it’s so comical. My family is like this. It drives me insane. It’s thankfully changing now that we got more cable listings and are able to be exposed to more global news.
Yes but that’s not exactly what my post touches upon.
It’s not just worrying about more “global” issues, even though that’s equally as important. The hypocrisy here is regarding a different matter.
It’s worrying about what goes on in our own backyards. The crimes I listed, who do you think is committing them? Our governments, our religious and social elites, and by being silent about it, we also take part in these crimes. With the migrant rights case it’s a societal one, where many citizens themselves are guilty.
So it’s not an issue of “look beyond your region,” even though awareness is wonderful, but that’s a whole post of its own.
It’s an issue of look what goes on in your own backyard before obsessing over Palestine. You’ll find way more Syrians focusing on Palestine than Kurds for example, even though many Kurds feel suffocated and are severely oppressed there. Millions of them.
On your first point, I’m not sure. Like you say, Palestine takes precedence even over local issues. So even if awareness increases, interest won’t until the mindset changes. Exposure to more global news may help alter this perception. That is what needs to happen.
On the second point, my post was meant slightly different. I agree about the local problems and the silence - that is a big effort to alter. You should focus on all local issues, not allowing Palestine to always be the only one focused on. But what I was saying was not about global/local. I meant about groups of people. So people are not interested in migrant rights as it is not their group, whether that is muslim, arab, ex-pat, kurd.
It’s the group people see themselves in that needs to alter. Is Palestine such an issue because it’s arabs been persecuted? Or is it such an issue because a large group of people in Gaza and the surrounding area are suffering badly? To a lot of people, it’s the former; to me, it is the latter. And if more people cared about Palestine for the latter, it would be so much easier to care about other suffering, local or global. THAT is what needs to change.
Awareness comes first. If other, and more serious issues were all over the news, then I would complain about the latter - but not now when there’s no way for people to find out much of our problems. Remember also, that due to censorship, we aren’t exposed to many government-sponsored abuses.
Yes, I know you have limited exposure - perhaps you are right and awareness is the catalyst you require. But local issues are covered, and still no interest, even with awareness?
Oh no. Kinda weird how you mentioned a suicide bomb attack Esra’a…
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/20080204/tpl-uk-israel-explosion-43a8d4f_2.html
When will it stop
If people don’t value their own lives, it’s hard to convince them to value the lives of others.
Idiotic. Truly stupid. Flowers and candy? Value….ha, yeah, value.
All this thread means absolutely nothing. As long as the hate education is persisting, there will be no chance for peace. Esra’a started this by pointing out that there must be other priorities in the Arab world beside the Israel/Palestine problem, and it drifted to…. Israel/Palestine. It goes to show that whether we like it or not, we are all brainwashed. Jews and Muslims ARE cousins, descendants from Abraham (Ishmael = Muslims, Isaac = Jews), The problem however shifted from POLITICAL to EXISTENTIAL. As long that there will be no reconciliation between these two religions, NO PEACE will be achieved. And don’t say I am exagerating. Listen to Al-Qaradawi or Tantawi from El-Azhar. You ahe all your replies. So it will be up to people like us, Esra’a, Josh, Corey, Lisa etc to find a way to circumvent all the local problem and reach beyond…
Everything on this damned website shifts to that. You could be discussing cake and it ends up being “you’re anti-Semites!” or “you’re Zionists!”
I’m so glad we have Baha’is and level-headed Iranians around. It’s the only thing giving this site a real flavor.
It’s going to be the 60th anniversary of the whole thing this year, isn’t it? During this time:
-Germany, a country defeated and cut in half, bombed to smithereens and generally considered to the source of monstous evil, is now reunified, one of the most powerful economies in the world and working hard to be the complete opposite of what it was.
-Japan, another nation defeated, nuked twice and devestated, has made the same recovery.
-China and Russia, where between them the two Communist regimes racked up a death toll in the tens of millions, are on the one hand surging ahead in a trememdous economic explosion and on the other re-inventing themselves into being again one of the world superpowers.
In Israel and Palestine?
Business
As
Usual.
Blame whoever you want to for this, but consider these 60 years.
How has this obsession actually helped those involved?
Am hurt you didn’t include me with the Baha’is and level-headed Iranians Esra’a. Guess I don’t count.
You’re not an author, so you actually don’t.
We need more Kurds in this place.
Ah i see. How rude
Get some connectivity in Kurdistan and you get more Kurds… *sigh*
We have Kurds. They’ve just been lazy. I added 2 more last night so let’s see how it goes.
Very good. The more here, the more views, the more we all learn
Goodnight.
The more bandwidth, the more we pay. See, it has its downside too!
Goodnight.
I decided also to calm down, take your advice, and apologize to those whom I was rude towards.
So to everyone (except my2cents), and especially to Corey and limpia, I am sorry for:
1) Overreacting
2) Putting things you didn’t say in your mouth
3) Making things personal, even though it wasn’t my intention. Okay, yeah it was.
4) Turning into a she-hulk, basically
But I will not apologize for my actual statements, which I strongly believe in, just the tone that I expressed them with.
Well, I’ve just been through quite a journey reading this page…
Maybe I can be so arrogant to assume that as a German (with Jewish blood, but banned from Israel) living in and loving the Arab world, I can add something to this.
First of all: Mabruk Esra’a! A great article. I will link it on my blog and recommend it. And great of all those who commented in such varied ways. Pity about the middle section, where it became a bit “you did this” “no I didn’t” kindergarten-like and maybe a breath of beautiful fresh air and cooling of the head would have helped (sorry). But there are some very interesting view and opinions, all of which I learned from. Thank you. It is great, that these kind of conversations can and do now exist. Thank you, WorldWideWeb!
Obviously, being German my ears turn around when I hear the word “antisemitism” and it came up quite a few times during this discussion. I don’t really want to go back to that point, but this word is really raped a lot of times in general. Does having negative feelings for (or rather against) a person who is a Jew make you an “antisemite”??! If you take it by its original meaning, then you’d have to hate Arabs just the same, who are also Semites (=people of nomadic origin) in their roots and hence related to the Jews (thank you BattalAgha for pointing this out).
Esra’a made a very useful and necessary point about an “obsession with Palestine”. And I have felt this many times when I’ve travelled in the Middle East… “kull ‘ashan Ihtilal ash-Shaytan Isra’el”…. and yet the in-action of most of those outside Palestine who make it a big deal. (On the other hand: what CAN they really do? - I’m sure you have some good ideas here.)
Well, unfortunately in my case, the topic of Israel is often followed by praises for Hitler. (I must say, I’m glad to see that this name hasn’t appeared yet in this thread… despite its inevitable connection with the world “antisemitism”). And that’s when I become either very quiet or very loud… I shall not judge all Arabs by the Taxi drivers who I usually have this conversation with. Nevertheless, these taxi drivers don’t seem to understand that if Hitler had succeeded in wiping out the Jews, the Arabs might well have been the next ones. Or in fact, if it hadn’t been Jews at that time, but Arabs who were active and present in great numbers in Germany, they might well have suffered the same fate. I would like to argue that it wasn’t really their being “Jews” that was the problem… and maybe the way nowadays this “obsession with Palestine” is used as a political tool, “Antisemitism” at that time was used as a political tool… Jews became a scapegoat for all problems that existed in Germany at the time and a common (internal) enemy always forges a people together… I don’t want to go so far as to compare this blaming everything on the Jews to what is going on in the minds of many people here at the moment.
I just want to encourage people to see this issue outside the “antisemitism” and “Jewish” debate. I live in Jordan. Recently a taxi driver of Palestinian origin (MANY people here are originally Palestinian) told me about six of his brothers and cousins who died at the hand of Israeli bullets. To be honest, I can’t remember if he said anything hateful about Israelis (in fact, I think like most Arabs I met that have suffered like him, he displayed a remarkable lack of any such expressions), but if he HAD… it would’ve been because they killed his loved-ones, not because they are JEWS.
A few years ago, I witnessed something in the Yemen that shocked me… a 13-year old boy was walking around the streets of Sana’a with a belt of live bullets around his chest. I asked him:
“What are those for?”
His answer was simple:
“To kill the fucking Jews in Israel.”
But this is no case to judge from. All this is, is stupidity and brainwash.
In that sense: there certainly is a strong feeling against ISRAEL (and sometimes also against ISRAELIS) among many Arabs, but what has this got to do with “antisemitism”? OK, some might use the word “Yahudi” (Jew), but I very much doubt that they specifically mean, what some term “antisemitism”. If your brother was killed by soldiers from a ‘democratic’ state that likes to appear as a ‘unity’, surely it is understandable that you have negative feelings against people from that state.
Anyway… not sure if I’m going anywhere with this. But I couldn’t help making a plea for a very careful use of the word “antisemitism”. And I guess all of us could write for hours on this topic, but I’ll stop here.
As a last note, maybe: The Phillipini government recently prohibited citizens of the Phillipines to go and work in Jordan, because of numerous cases (and more un-reported, as always) of what Esra’a not inappropriately described as ’slavery’: abuse, non-payment and rape. I have seen with my own eyes how a Jordanian family was sitting in a restaurant, dining finely, while their “Phillipino” maid was standing behind them, rocking the pram of their youngest and then getting the plate of one of the elder children to eat what was left.
Racism exists everywhere. And in Germany and Britain, where I’ve lived for most of my life, I’ve never seen as much of it as I have seen here in the Middle East, I hate to say. Don’t misinterpret this statement, please. This is not a generalisation saying: Arabs are racist. In most of the cases where I’ve seen Phillipinos, Egyptians, Sri Lankans or Gypsies (add them to your list, Esra’a!) being treated like they were not of the same race or kind as the ones who treated them here, it was from Arabs who I would desribe as ‘wealthy’ and ‘westernised’, actually.
Right, I’ll leave it there.
Goodnight.
And bye the way… your last statement Esra’a is very sweet…
May peace and forgiveness prevail in this world.
…and sorry that I’m not a Kurd.
Esra’a
As we have seen in this thread, the subject of Palestine has real passion. Do you think that other problems will be more closely followed if the passion over Palestine subsides? Will it ever subside? Is the focus on Palestine fostered with the intent of distracting from other events? I’ve certainly heard that view expressed, many times. The thread went everywhere, so I’m still a bit confused. It did serve the purpose of airing out many repressed and stong feelings. I am sorry if I angered you through my clumbsy expression and ignorance, but that is what I hear around here. Our media seems to be “selective” about what we hear about here in the US, so we don’t get the full story(unless it’s about Brittany or Paris Hilton). It’s controlled knowledge. Most news from the ME here is focused on atrocities and is basically anti-islamic. It certainly leaves an unsavory and unfortunate impression. Too many buy into it, and that is also unfortunate.
That’s the 3rd time I apologized to you!
Morning Esra’a and all,
The more you find yourself paying, the better a job you are all doing
Great post Esra’a, has got my day off to a better start reading your apologies 1 to 4. I also agree with your statement mostly, but not your method, just like you said. Well done. Haven’t met a she-hulk before, so I can tick that off now.
Hi Almani - good post and you certainly have a unique perspective because of where you have come from. Could I ask you to translate things like “kull ‘ashan Ihtilal ash-Shaytan Isra’el” so that limited englishmen like me can also understand?! Good point about the filipino maid - I have read how it is prevalent in Saudi as well - I suppose anywhere there are rich people really. I know some suffer here in London too but perhaps there are a few more options here for people to leave, maybe the same is not available for migrant workers in the ME. Again, an important local issue veiled by the focus on Palestine perhaps.
R E Konrad - nice post. I think the distracting tactic with Palestine is pretty established now. But first you have to identify the problem before you can solve it. And the US isn’t the only country who doesn’t get the full story. That’s why places such as MEY.com are so important and things are starting to change I think, I hope.
Josh
Well said Esra’a, that was a bold and daring post to make.
I think I am going to play it safe and not join in whole secondary discussion in the comments section. Very interesting article; I will make sure to visit your site again in the future.
Well, actually, I will make a response to one of the comments–Chris in Canada. When it comes to economic development, Israel has moved from being pretty much a third-world country to being one of the leaders in high-tech, biotech, start-ups etc. (I work with these companies–it is simply amazing).
(Yes, there are problems here/ no it is not perfect/ yes we have to improve various areas/etc etc…but I just could not let that just go!)
Again, thank you for the thought provoking article
Gila
That is too bad Palestinians getting attention–which is about all they get–bothers you so much. There are, to be sure, plenty of tragedies around the world–many in the Middle East which you don’t even mention–that get little coverage and that is a shame, but to barrage people for being “obsessive” about arguably the only long-term occupation in modern history and, what B’Tselem notes, a unique system of rule similar only to the South African regime of the past, i must say:
spare me….
False and this comment reassert the point about people being too obsessive about Palestinians.
Arabs really don’t give a damn about the Palestinians, they are generally obsessed to appease their ego more than care about the Palestinians who are caught up in the middle.
well, Jina, I appreciate your comment but, as it were, you only make assertions; no arguments, no evidence, nothing. I can similarly say: “Jina is not a person. No one gives a damn about anyone named Jina.” As you see, without providing any evidence or examples, it is difficult to take you seriously.
What is the evidence that Arabs don’t give a damn about the Palestinians? Is it all the public opinion studies of the Arab world that say the exact opposite of what you claim? Is it all the rallies and Nakba commemorations held every year? The Palestinian question is abused, to be sure, but to make a wild claim that simply Arabs don’t care about Palestinians seems to be at stark odds with reality–indeed, Arabs seem to be the ones that care about Palestinians most–certainly most Americans don’t.
As for the occupation claim….I qualified my statement by saying “arguably” but I really can’t think of another one. Indonesia left East Timor a while ago, the US is bound to leave Iraq in under 40 years–or at least end an informal occupation…I just can’t think of any comparable occupation in modern history; so instead of making claims, back yourself up with evidence and enlighten me please….
of course, the Kashmir could, though I tend to think it is different, can be mentioned as another one.
But i would say it is a different thing. It’s a question of A: it being part of India; B: being part of Pakistan, or C: being an independent state. I would dare say the Kashmir conflict is, geopolitically, more complex.
Hmm… news flash… your claims are also assertions. Can you give me your proof first?
wtf? same applies to you…
=======> this is my penis, this is Jina… kthx… now that we got our introductions out of the way, shall we continue?
The fact that almost every single Palestinian refugee still live in the same refugee camp they moved into when the Jews kicked them out tells me something. Fact that the children born to these refugees have no nationality even though they were born in these Arab countries tells me something. Fact that children of those children… get it?
Words vs Deeds, I judge based on deeds, not words.
Does this involve not discriminating against Palestinian refugees in the Arab world or is it just a way to tell people that you care and then get back to shitting on them the next day?
Americans? Why even bring them into this argument? Actually now that you mention it, 200,000 some Palestinians living in Americas were treated much better when they arrived and do really well within America currently. Compared to Palestinians in America, those refugees living in the Arab countries aren’t even allowed to leave their refugee camps because of who they are.
On another note, Americans and Arabs only make up about 8% of the world population. Gosh these must be the entire world and I am an invisible person writing this from Pluto… ok Mars… ya Mars sounds better.
This proves your ignorance or lack of knowledge. I’ll give you a little list, starting with the Arab, Turkish and Iranian occupation of Kurdistan. Chinese occupation of Tibet. Indian/Pakistani occupation of Kashmir. Russian occupation of Chetchnia. Of course if I go to India, I can add about few dozen more. How about Africa? Ehh… ok that is way too messy. You know where Africa is right or India? Palestine ain’t the center of the world, get your head around that and learn a tad bit about the rest of the world. Come to think of it, you sound a lot like an American with your worldly knowledge.
Ohh another interesting point. My mother-in-law never speaks to other Arabs in her Palestinian dialect. I wonder why? Was it because the other Arabs tend to react negatively to her because she’s Palestinian? Maybe its her imagination… actually no, after being discriminated against and mocked for being a Palestinian, she decided to get smart and speak a different dialect and lie about her origin to save her from all the humiliation she faces.
Avi, you seem not to get the point of this post at all. This sentence in particulate is quite laughable since this is pretty much what my post targets and emphasizes:
I mentioned several (obviously not all, which is impossible and is beyond the point of my post) tragedies that no mainstream media mentions or cares to give any attention to, and yes, this is due to a clear and consistent obsession only with Palestine, to the point where no one cares about anyone else being abused in the region. Why? Because Palestinians are “more important?” No one is arguing that Palestine is not important or that it deserves any less attention than what they are getting, I am arguing other minorities need just as much attention. It is unfair for them to go unnoticed and for their horrific persecution to be constantly overlooked.
The whole point of the matter is that no one mentions the other tragedies in the region since everyone is so utterly obsessed with Palestine. And it’s right, attention is all they are getting, and they are the only ones in the Middle East getting it, unlike all the other oppressed people whom others (especially the media) seemingly dismiss as unimportant, including our own governments who commit these atrocities to begin with. Why don’t the majority care, protest against, or write about other things than Palestine, when there are minorities/nations who at times go through things just as bad or even worse? Do they not matter to you?
And it’s hardly the point of my post that the attention Palestine gets “bothers” me - please make an effort to read my conclusion one more time before making such a baseless claim. I said activism towards Palestine is admirable and I encourage it, but to attack others who protest against things other than just Palestine (which many Arabs do and I have tons of personal experience in this field), is proof of the fact that this is more than just “activism,” it is abusive ignorance and obsession.
In any case, your comment only implies that you didn’t get the point of the post. No one said Palestinians were obsessive, the attention they get, however, is obsessive and it is heartbreaking to see that no other tragedy or minority or human rights abuse will ever get the same attention because people have lost interest and awareness for the other ones being abused by their societies and by our governments. What a disgusting, shameful reality. One day this region will really pay the price of this carelessness.
This is funny because I cam across this article by having searched out ‘jewish obsession with Palestine’, because it’s the jews, whose greed, deviousness and widespread influence bought them the Israel at the cost of millions of lives, both jewish and Arab. I say this AS A JEW. I believe that the Arabs are outraged, not obsessed, because we have brought them a great deal of injustic. Let me explain.
Us jews have no right to the land of Palestine; the zionists brazenly stole it from the Palestinians in an act of agression. They were aided by the British of course who mandated Palestine to the zionists as a repayment for their service during WWI, that service being bailing out the British by forcing America into entering this war. The jewish clout in America was convinced by their Zionist partners in Europe to put pressure on Wilson to go to war under the cause of “making the world safe for democracy” - very similar to what happened in Iraq.
So we, the jews, sold Germany in WWI, because the majority of jews were of German decent. They have treated us well and we sold them, and then in 1933, we declared war on them and demonized Hitler and boycotted German goods in America - read your history books.
The Germans were pissed…I think you know well what happened later. We exploited our suffering, just like Norman Finklestein said, using the Balfour Declaration as a reminder of the British promise of repayment in the form of….Israel. And we got our way - the Zionists got their way just like they always have and like they always will.
My parents were called up to Aliyah, they helped found this repressive regime, and they deeply felt disgraced and remorseful after they realized what they had become complicit in: A forceful occupation of another country. My dad recalled driving out Palestinians from their homes in 1967, burning homes and sending people into the desert.
All this for what? Israel is not our promised land. We don’t deserve it, we’re Khazars, pagans turned jews who never put a toe in the holy land. But they grew greedy, and Theodore Hertzl messed it all up. God is not a real estate agent, I don’t care what the Torah or the Old Testament says, you can’t claim a piece of land that belongs to another human being simply because my ancestors used to live there a thousand years ago, whose greed was the result of the loss of their Kingdom, the Kingdom of Judea.
This is a terrible justice, the Arabs have all the right to be angry. I was labeled by many as a self-hating jew for voicing my anti-zionism, my dad was persecuted for defecting and had to flee to Canada and my mom, well…let’s just say I will never forgive Israel…ever….
But all the efforts by the Arabs have been thwarted, and now they are hopeless. Israel is stronger than any country in the region…stronger than any NATO country other than the US for that matter.
As a result, the Arabs resorted to Islam, they sought to unite Islam as they saw that the Arabs were submitting to the West and the Muslim faith was declining. Their efforts were brought about in the form of a holy war declared against the state of Israel…
And if there’s anything I learned from studying Islam is that you can’t call off a holy war; this WILL end with the rightful destruction of the illegal state of Israel.
As a jew, I stand to witness that the zionists have wronged the Arabs, they have oppressed them and waged a global smear campaign against them and anyone who supported them. They isolated them, they steered US politics against them, they persecuted Arabs in the own land and relegated them to second class citizens, and in the past, MURDERED THEM in COLD BLOOD.
You are a horrible person Esraa, if you can’t see the right of Arabs to b outraged. Israel is the centerpeiece of all suffering in the world. If there were no Israel, there would’ve been no 9/11, no Iraq, no Iran (wars that is), no Islamic extremism, no perceived “clash of civilizations”, none of that garbage brought about by FALSE judaism. Apart from Darfur, every conflict in the Middle East has been caused directly or indirectly by Israel, aided by AIPAC.
I hope you wake up from your slumber and realize that it is the zionists who are obsessed with Palestine, not the Arabs…and it is their obsession that has caused so much suffering and so much death…and let these clueless morons who kneel before a jew on a cross help us in destroying a race of human beings, setting up the stage for the Apocalypse. The time the zionists should be punished is upon us.
It is an Arab obsession, and you’re just in denial. Your whole comment is a testament to that fact, which I have already explained in detail in the post. You happen to misunderstand the point of this article and what it is trying to express, but I won’t put that past you. You, like most Arabs, are blinded by this destructive and aggressive obsession and it is the reason why we lack the vital progression that we need here in the Arab world.
I believe this comment is a little bit late, but I don’t think it’ll hurt.
I personally find it very interesting that an Arab person is disgusted by the obsession about palestine. I’d say that you have chosen the wrong word to express your feelings! But, maybe I’m wrong, and you are actually disgusted by that!
Some arabs do discriminate against palestinians in their countries. This is a fact. But so do Lebanese against Syrians, Egyptians against sudanese, Saudis against Yemenis, and even Bahraini shiites against Bahraini Sunnis & the other way around, and so do Swedes against Danish, Spanish against Catalans, Whites against blacks, Yankees against rednecks. And this is happening in what is called the advanced world.
People don’t discriminate against each other because they hate each other. It’s just our nature. Humans. If you watched the movie Crash you might understand what I mean. You will side with your brother against your cousin, you’ll side with your cousin against your neighbor, you’ll side with your neighbor against the guy from the next town. As such, you’ll side with bahrainis against palestinians, and with palestinians against the Jews.
You’ve given a half-man Kuwaiti writer as an example. I know there are some half-men Kuwaitis who are following the same trend, but I assure you that if the call was made, Kuwaitis will side with the palestinians. It’s in the nature of this stupid world, that politicians do something, and the “common” fall in the trap. I’m highlighting the common, because you can not blame the common for going with the flaw. This is why they are called the common. Saddam attacked Kuwait, he needed a cause that arabs will undoubtedly support, so he started bombarding Tel Aviv. Palestinians, being victims for 50 years of Israeli agression looked up to the only guy who challenged Israel for decades. The funny thing is that Israel didn’t reply because they know if they did it will look like they are on the same side as the Gulf states, Egypt & Syria, etc. Which will obviously embarass these countries, and might risk them pulling out of the coalition.
Your Italian reader pointed out that the world doesn’t know anything about palestine. Have you given any thought on why this is the case? I’ll tell you why. It is simply because there isn’t enough obsession about it. I do agree with you that there are other atrocities in the arab world, just like in all other nations, but do you really think that your voice is as much needed on those issues?
I think you should leave it to FOX, CNN, and the rest of the gang to stress on these issues. Believe me they did a pretty good job highlighting what is going on in Darfur. How long has it been? 10 years? The whole world knows by now what is Darfur & what is going on there. On the other hand, I still get questions on where the hell is palestine? Something like, why are these Israelis called palestinians causing troubles to their state? Is it because they are Muslim Israeli?! So you see, our obsession didn’t succeed in convincing the whole world that Palestinians are actually different from Israelis, let alone convincing them with their cause.
Why? Because we whine about Palestine to ourselves. We know the story, but we keep telling it to ourselves. Not enough coverage in English. That’s probably why i’m getting a bit excited with Aljazeera international. Because maybe, just maybe, they can send out a message in english that the world can hear. CNN & FOX are never going to do that.
So my suggestion is that people like you, who were blessed with the ability to communicate in english, and reach out to a big audience like your site’s, should be more obsessed with palestine. If you are obsessed with the rights of Baha’is, Minorities, Homosexuals, and the likes, fine! write about them 10 posts/day. But equally write 10 about Palestine. Whether you like it or not, the main cause, and issue that the Arab & Muslim population is concerned about, is palestine, and you have no right to try and change that.
All these opressed segments of the community are getting more than enough support and rallying from the Western media, and probably they deserve it. But when Palestine doesn’t get that attention, I think it is your duty to expose it.
I would’ve loved to read here about how much you’re disgusted by our inability to translate our obsession about palestine to a lobbying effect in the world. Instead, you have chosen to decide for your readers, and the population you are supposed to be helping, that they shouldn’t be as obsessed with Palestine.
The west for example, is obsessed by labelling all arabs as anti-semitic, which is a laughable thing for me, because we are actually semitic. They are so obsessed with supporting Israel, to the limit that it was the only thing both american presidential candidates agreed upon! I think the whole world will butcher and Arab president, if his campaign had a big space for the palestinian issue.
Our obsession with palestine, is the only thing left for them to fight with. In a time when revolting against occupation became terrorism, and doubting a divine promise to the Israelis a blasphemy!
Don’t steal that away from them. Governments have turned their backs on them. Let them enjoy the support of the common. Is it too much to ask?
If you are interested in defending the rights of minorities, then you are an angel. Write 10 posts every day about that, but don’t forget that most atrocities and turmoils happening in the Middleeast happen because of Palestine & Oil. If you are doing your society a favor, don’t shy away from what really matters to them.
Ehab, I can officially say that you haven’t understood my post at all. Please read the post again. My disgust is not with the obsession itself, or the cause, you obviously misunderstood the concept behind being obsessed while refusing to acknowledge and recognize other human rights abuses to the point where people belittle them merely to focus only on Palestinian human rights. I made this point very clearly, so am unsure why you missed this, and equally unsure why you decided to imply that I am disgusted with the Palestinian cause itself, which is far from the case at hand.
The article expresses my crucial point perfectly clearly, with some detailed examples listed, so please read it again, I don’t feel I have anything else to add, but all I know is that your comment is a bit misguided and not exactly relevant to the point I made within the article.
Esra’, maybe I have branched a little bit in my comment to write about other points you’ve mentioned, or other things your readers commented on. But I believe that the conclusion of my comment has been mentioned in at the end
Our obsession with palestine, is the only thing left for them to fight with. In a time when revolting against occupation became terrorism, and doubting a divine promise to the Israelis a blasphemy!
Don’t steal that away from them. Governments have turned their backs on them. Let them enjoy the support of the common. Is it too much to ask?
If you are interested in defending the rights of minorities, then you are an angel. Write 10 posts every day about that, but don’t forget that most atrocities and turmoils happening in the Middleeast happen because of Palestine & Oil. If you are doing your society a favor, don’t shy away from what really matters to them.
Thanks for clearing it up Ehab, I don’t think there’s much we disagree with. I have always been a staunch supporter of the Palestinian cause which I have written about countless times here, you can even see my anger towards certain commenters who twisted my words and claimed that Palestinians don’t deserve attention at all, which is not even remotely relevant to what I was talking about.
There is no problem with anyone obsessing with Palestine. My only concern is for activists who do not allow other activists to peacefully campaign for other issues that deserve an equal amount of attention, whether it’s Darfur or abused minorities. These are the people I essentially targeted my post with. I was criticizng this specific approach, and not the obsession itself, which I have absolutely no problem with.
please, help your brothers in Palestine right now! not with money but with weapons . are you muslims ? what about your Djihad ? where is Mohammede el Fateh ? how can you stand up near your prophet Mohamet in the jugement day and will tell him we were oppressed ? where is the solidarity of Islam ?
How nice to find this thread again! Have visited a few times over the months… how are you doing Esra’a? Just a shame I was woken back to this thread by such a stupid post…