I think that this sentence is not consistent with reality.

Lebanon has to get its house in order. They have become a puppet of Syria and there is very little tolerance for anyone who doesn’t tow the line.

Puppet of Syria? Are you sure you’re following the news?

Maybe cause settlements are cutting into Bethlehem now.

I think Pals of all colors despise the Israelis because there is an inherent antisemitism that has tainted most arab thinking which trumps everything including the friction between christians and muslims.

I think it’s a bit insincere to blame settlements for the exodus of christians when pervasive Islamism is the real answer.

Yet a large majority of Palestinian Christians despise the Israeli occupation more than their fellow Muslim countrymen.

Maybe cause settlements are cutting into Bethlehem now.

Your divide and conquer bullshit aint gonna work. Go back to “Gayrut” so you can have your fascist Maronite buddies kiss your ass the minute you set foot there.

Not sure what you mean by “gayrut”, but evidently you know how to spew the bu11sh1t so why not just climb back into the excrement-filled swamp you came from?…if you have a lucid point to make then borrow someone’s brain and try to think of one because you’re certainly pushing hard enough but it’s all coming out of your a55.

In particular, you must be concerned by how Christians are treated in Bethlehem by Muslims and how that town’s Christian population has been destroyed by those who hate difference.

Yet a large majority of Palestinian Christians despise the Israeli occupation more than their fellow Muslim countrymen.

Your divide and conquer bullshit aint gonna work. Go back to “Gayrut” so you can have your fascist Maronite buddies kiss your ass the minute you set foot there.

Despite the oil-trillions, despite the supposed “commitment” of twenty-two Arab states the fact is that none of the Arab states have ever really cared about the Pals. beyond lip service. This is proven by the Arab determination to keep the Pals. languishing in refugee camps.

I don’t want any settlements in gaza…I would have liked to see a little respect for the synagogues that were left there, like instead of burning them to the ground, using them for mosques or schools but such is the hatred of the Palestinians….burn out the jewish presence…they also destroyed the hot houses that were left there…fools

BTW, I didn’t see the original post, so I just responded to your “elephant” comment.

Why is Gaza coming into the discussion about settlements? Are you unilaterally planning on putting settlements back in Gaza?
Is there a reason why you chose to respond to me but not when Miriam said it originally?

Nadia,
There won’t be a withdrawal from cities like Maale Adumim, Ariel, and Givat Zeev because they are Israeli land. The huge elephant in the room is: will Arabs do something for the Pals, like let them become citizens of any arab country because there isn’t enough room in gaza.

Ray,
I want to discuss the points you bring up one at a time:
Jerusalem: Your claim that Israel is doing the same thing Jordan did…That’s a straw man argument, Ray…Jordan closed off the city to Jews, used graved stones as latrines and used the western wall of the temple as a garbage dump. Israel has limited how many Pals can go to Omar BECAUSE there is a constant danger of rioting and dead israelis. Ray, be honest with yourself…the wakf doesn’t allow jews up to the mosque and on the odd chance that they do, they make damn sure they can’t utter a single prayer. The western wall is open to all as are all holy places. Israel has guaranteed worshipping rights to all. Tell me Ray: Can you build a church is Saudi Arabia? And tell me what kind of respect the Pals in Gaza have for any of the synagogues that they burned when they got that land?

Mistreatment of Christians: I feel for you that you were attacked verbally by CAIR but that isn’t what I was talking about. Can you even admit that muslim Pals have physically abuse christians and forced them out of Bethlehem and other places or does that hurt the Pals cause and therefore you won’t criticize that?

Abbas a Holocaust denier: Ray, being middle of the road doesn’t mean criticizing everyone equally, it means taking the golden mean and not being extreme. You call Olmert a racist bigot? I can call all the Pal leaders murdering antisemties: Yassin, Arafat, habash etc…

There are 22 arab states and only one Israel. If the majority of arabs have there way, there wouldn’t be an Israel…If you call Sharon a terrorist then what was Assad’s father? BTW…what are you talking about when you say Sharon in 1956…are you talking about Qibya? That was a “massacre” like Jenin was a massacre, which it wasn’t. You use “terrorist” the way some people use “nazi” when they scream at Bush. The word becomes meaningless. But as you say…I’m glad I’m getting under your skin

Re, the peace process: Oslo was killed by Arafat because he didn’t have the testicles to call for peace…it was easier to call for an intifada because dead jews are easier to deal with than living with jews. You give Netanyahu too much credit.

When Israelis do despicable things I too make it known that it can’t be tolerated. When Goldstein killed muslims in hebron I was disgusted and spoke up. When Kahane spoke hatred, I spoke up.

Do you speak up when Pal TV has promotes outright antisemitism and violence and focuses it on kids… Check it out yourself: http://www.pmw.org.il/tv%20part3.html Don’t see that on the Israeli side…

Ray, look around you…Pals live in Jerusalem…any Jews living in Arab villages without an army surrounding them for fear of their lives?

I’m still with you brother…your turn…

Josh

Yeah, I think this is a huge elephant in the room.

I am very concerned about how Christians are treated. On the one hand, they are abused by Israel (not as Christians, but as Palestinians). Christian Palestinians are mistreated just like Muslim Palestinians by Israeli government policy. Many of my relatives in Ramallah, Bethlehem, Beit Jala and Beit Sahour can’t even visit Jerusalem for Palm Sunday or Easter. Some of them haven’t been in Jerusalem since 1967 because Israel won’t allow them to enter the city, which is closed off selectively by Israel in the same way Jordan closed off the city selectively against Jews coming from Israel or who had Israeli passports.

Israel made a big deal about that when they captured Arab East Jerusalem in 1967, yet seem to not care that they are doing the same thing Jordan did — which was wrong, since 1967.

BUT, I also agree that Christians are abused and marginalized more and more by Muslims not just in Palestine but throughout the world. Just this past week, a Muslim working at CAIR, the Council on American Islamic Relations, published a letter to the editor denouncing me because he disagreed with a point I made that Mulims, Christians an Jews have never had “good relations” in Palestine either under the Ottomans or after World War I when the Allies occupied the lands and mistreated everyone. CAIR only once sent a letter praising my column in the Arlington Heights Daily Herald (in the six years I have been writing there — the only Arab American for a while who had a regular column in a major mainstream American newspaper after Sept. 11 writing about Middle East issues). Many extremist supporters of Israel are always demanding that I be fired from the column because they disagree with my middle-of-the-road approach (denouncing violence and terrorism and bad policies on both sides) … but to have CAIR attack me, on Easter Week, and to take my comments out of context and lie that I said Muslims, Christians and Jews have never had good relations anywhere, is just outrageous.

They attacked me because I am not Muslim. The Chicago head of CAIR told me the letter did not represent the organization even though the person who said it listed his position as being at CAIR … pathetic if you ask me.

I take a beating from supporters of Israel and supporters of Hamas terrorism, Moderates in the middle often take sides becauseof emotion not principle or issue. They are just afraid to speak up, that’s all but these silent moderates are actually complicit in the ongoing tragedy and inability to achieve peace.

I do believe all speech is covered in the US COnstitution short of speech intended to cause violence or harm. I don’t believe that is what Rev. Wright was doing. I think he was just angry, and sharing that anger with his audience. And I think his anger pushed him beyond the limits of reason. I don’t agree that the US policy has been to infect Blacks with HIV but many Blacks I know believe that and I suspect most Blacks believe it.

While you call Abbas a Holocaust denier, I call Olmert a racist bigot who denies Palestinian rights and also denies atrocities that Israel has committed against Palestinians. And he is no different than Netanyahu or Sharon, state terrorists who should be prosecuted for war crimes against the Palestinians. ASo, if Abbas a Holocaust denier? Is Netanyahu and Sharon state terrorists? Which is worse and why is it that supporters of Israel ONLY bash the Palestinians for things they do wrong but remain silent on Israelis who do wrong?

Hearing you call Abbas a Holocaust denier, for example, is irrelevent to me because I know you are doing it for political reasons because you don’t denounce Sharon or Netanyahu for their criminal acts in the past … Sharon for killing civilisn in 1956, and Netayahu for intentionally destroying the Oslo peace accords and conspiring with Sharon to derail Rabin’s peace plans … you blame Arafat, I blame Netanyahu and Sharon.

So you think your charges that Palestinians have hate-filled speeches is more important than my charges that Israelis are consumed with hate-filled speeches, that Israeli civilians and settlers carry guns with them everywhere and can kill Palestinians (and get slapped on their hands when caught and charged).

So be it. The differen, though, is that I speak out against all sides, not just one to make my side look good.

Now, isn’t this a better way to dialogue and disagree?

Thanks my man

Ray hanania
http://www.ArabWritersGroup.com
http://www.RadioChicagoland.com

I don’t even wona start…

If indeed your family was Jewish, when did they convert? Perhaps then, there is a part of your soul that is Jewish and you’ll be able to see the things that I talk about with a little more clarity than most who chalk it all up to some jewish conspiracy.

I do give you credit for saying things that others never say. And I appreciate the fact that you have the bravery to say these things in public. Because every time you compliment any jewish organization, I realize that you put your life in harms way. Because the truth is that I don’t hear the voice of moderation from too many Arabs. There are a few voices, but not many and I know how those who don’t agree with their gov’t or local town council end up.

In particular, you must be concerned by how Christians are treated in Bethlehem by Muslims and how that town’s Christian population has been destroyed by those who hate difference.

But let me ask you a question: while speech is a freedom here, do you really think that all speech is covered by that freedom. Do you not believe that hate-filled speech brings about hatred and with it, violence? Do you think the hatred that the PLO and Abbas who was a holocaust denier, condoned…aren’t these licenses to go beyond the speech and get rid of jews?

Anyway, nice having a dialogue

I don’t have to like everything Rev. Wright says. But I do believe that Black people in America have suffered tremendously. They have been murdered, lynched, burned, discriminated against, denied jobs, beaten, ostracized and much of the time the result of formal American policy. So in that context, when I hear African Americans take the issues to the extreme, I cut them slack and give them the benefit of the doubt.

But I can tell, Josh, from your vicious attacks above that the issue is not about principle or free speech. It is about hatred. I’m Palestinian. By the way, my family WAS Jewish and converted to Christianity because we believe in Jesus Christ. I have as much right to live in Israel and Palestinian as some Russian dude who converted to Judaism.

My father wa sborn in Jerusalem. And until Israel and Palestinians sign a peace accord, you can rant away. It doesn’t bother me at all. But I am glad it gets under your skin

Thanks
Ray Hanania
PS … read my post on Facebook’s hypocrisy … that will light your fuse

Seriously though; while we can celebrate a virtual Facebook victory, the truth remains that very few Israelis see a complete withdrawal from the settlements, especially those that are the most built-up (Maale Adumim, Ariel, and Givat Zeev which Olmert has just authorized expanding). The fact that this categorical change on a social networking website is making such waves points to the very little talk going on about how to make full withdrawal to the 1967 borders a reality.

Re: connecting the dots, I think the common theme is reality versus fantasy, Ray. Or reality versus spin.