Schism (The Bible version of Fitna)
April 5th, 2008Now that many Islamophobes expressed their opinions (both within this site and elsewhere), and mocked Muslims for their beliefs, I was made aware of this video by Muneeb and I’m wondering what the Christians (or non-Christian Islamophobes) think about this. I’m specifically referring to the many Christians who felt that violence in any religion is incomparable to Islam, and that Muslims are indeed Satanic.
If it angered you, and if you felt misrepresented, good. Now, you can finally understand where we are coming from, and why we consider this material to be abusive.
We’re not outraged because we’re in denial. We’re outraged because we’re misunderstood, and discrimination against us is justified with such bigotry. Why do Islamophobes get away with it, and anti-Semites don’t?
Compare your reactions. If you reacted differently to each video; thinking it’s okay to demonize Islam but not any other religion, your bias is apparent and you should no longer claim to be level-headed.
Note: Some people are unfortunately too dimwitted and seem to think that I am endorsing the content of this video. That I’m apparently anti-Christian (insert cackles here.) Allow me to explain to the darkest crayons in the box why this video was posted in the first place.
First of all, the creator of the video is trying to make a point. He is a Muslim, but not an anti-Christian. He is not saying this is how Christianity really is, in the end of the video, he is comparing this with Wilder’s Fitna. He is saying anyone can take a holy book, twist its words, couple it with the most extreme images/words representing the faith and then claim that the entire religion or its followers are like this. Thereby acknowledging the fact that Christianity is not like this at all but a little video like this has the power to prove otherwise no matter how misinformed it is, again in direct reference to Fitna.
The reason it was posted it here was to provide a discussion amongst all the Islamophobes who get away with insulting and abusing Muslims, and trying to show them how invalid Wilder’s film really is. It’s not to show Christians in a poor light and simply, it has nothing to do with the faith and everything to do with Wilder’s tactics and how they can be applied to pretty much anything.
If people still don’t get the purpose of this; I’d be happy to draw diagrams for the kiddies amongst you who refuse to get it.
Loading ...
Loading...
It is important to remember that Judaism and Christianity - which have their share of misogyny, hatred and calls to warfare - date back before Islam and have therefore had a longer time to reform than Islam.
The Islamic reformation is coming. In fact, it has already started.
Schism (The Bible version of Fitna) (video)…
I’m wondering what the Christians (or non-Christian Islamophobes) think about this. I’m specifically referring to the many Christians who felt that violence in any religion is incomparable to Islam, and that Muslims are indeed Satanic….
the big differences include 1) the Reformation 2) Christian’s are not committing violence in the name of Jesus or God 3) Muslims specifically refer to Koranic verses to justify violence, Christians do not 4) The US military is not a Christian based organization referring to Biblical verses 5) Biblical verses referring to violence were dictations to specific people in a historical context, not a commandment to all people 6) Christian children are not toting AK47’s nor being taught how to use them by their elders 7) Christian’s may want to spread the word of God but are not kidnapping, beheading, rioting, protesting, etc…this video won’t even provoke a response from most…it’s just another Islamic propaganda tool that means nothing…actions speak louder than words - and the actions of Muslims can not be silenced…
Last I checked the KKK not too long ago was killing in the name of a White, Christian nation.
Hello? Did you even bother watching the video? Apparently what these children said doesn’t mean much to you, killing, dying, and going to war in the name of God.
What about Bush’s comment of going to war in the name of Jesus Christ? As in Jesus apparently “asked” him to attack Iraq? Is this not religious terrorism?
It just shows that immorality and violence exists in every religion, and there are different ways to justify it. Politics, God, prophets, anything. I don’t see you pointing these out. Just blindly accusing Islam like any other loud-mouthed bigot.
How ironic coming from someone who enjoyed Geert’s utter propoganda.
And this film wasn’t popogandic in any way, or anti-Christian. Obviously you were too busy denying what was being said to notice what message the video creator was really trying to portray. Watch it again and this time, please pay attention instead of repeating the same tedious arguments that have been refuted to death by now.
Will the next Islamophobe step on the plate please (and, with a new argument if you can.)
Bush Dedicates the “War on Terror” (which includes the brutal murder of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians) to Jesus.
(More)
Enlighten us, Mary. What is the meaning of this? Or will you just flail your arms around and complain that it’s “propaganda”?
I see that you also haven’t bothered looking at the link in which Muslims were referred to as “Satan,” during a conference where Christians were advocating for a nuclear war with Iran, “an evil state representing an evil religion,” but also the home of millions of decent and innocent civilians, whose lives are apparently worthless.
No, Christians don’t commit terrorism in the name of Jesus or God at all. *rolleyes*
Mary wrote, “…actions speak louder than words - and the actions of Muslims can not be silenced…”
You are so right! The United States, Britain, and other Western countries talk about human rights and democracy, but at the same time go around engaging in regime change and supporting brutal dictators and kings who do their bidding.
All your noble words about Christianity mean nothing in comparison to the 3 to 5 million Buddhists killed when the U.S. bombed Vietnam and Cambodia.
All your noble words about Christianity mean nothing in comparison to the fact that the United State is responsible for over a million deaths in Iraq as a result of two invasions and sanctions. The irony about this is that the United States had helped Saddam Hussein into power and supported him, strategically and financially, when he was committing his worst atrocities. The Iraqi people are scapegoats of U.S. foreign policy.
Your noble words about Christianity mean nothing in comparison to the fact that the United States is the number one seller of weapons. It does not hesitate to sell weapons, train, and give strategic advice to opposite sides of a conflict, like in the Iran-Iraq war and the Congo.
Your noble words about Christianity mean nothing in comparison to the fact that the place where the most killings and rapes are occurring is in the Christian Congo, but for some reason there doesn’t seem to be too much concern about this war ravaged country. Is it because the United States, Israel, and Europe benefit from the diamonds, other natural resources, slave labor and sale of weapons that the plight of the Congolese does not really matter?
What’s the point you are trying to make? Is invading Irag in the name of God? Are the soldiers you showed God’s army? Did you hear them shouting God’s name while committing kicking those guys? Did you find any sayings of Jesus telling his followers to kill, maim and blow up innocent ones in the name of defending expanding, or propagating his teachings? Where are those kids you showed in the video sent to fight in the name of God?
Common guys, just look at all the trouble spots in the world where people have been kiled in the name of God within the last few years - Indonesia, Thailand, Philipines, India, Spain, UK, USA, Nothern Nigeria, East Africa, China, Netherlands, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Israel, Palestine, etc. Are Christians the perpetrators? Look at the hsitory of all major religions, which ones are being propagated by violence from day one?
Let’s take some example which really hasn’t to do anything with Islam: Northern Ireland.
Do you remember how Catholics and Protestants terrorized each other in that part of the UK? What do you think, what did they say why they did so?
When i heard christianity mentioned I was hoping to see versus cited from the new testament (you know the christian portion of the bible) but all i see here are versus from the torah, I’m confused.
damisi,
Even if it is not being done in the name of Judeo-Christianity, the Judeo-CHristian world benfits from the deaths and destruction.
Are people who whose countries have been bombed, millions of their people killed or disabled, millions more of their people made refugees, and natural resources stolen are not suffering just because it was done in the name of democratic imperialism instead of religion?
By the way, I heard a radio interview where they were talking about the torture of Iraqi prisoners and it was mentioned that one of the American soldiers was beating an Iraqi on his lame leg and telling him to renounce Islam and say Jesus was his GOD, otherwise he wouold not stop beating him on his lame leg.
Ah but there is a huge problem here esra. I’m making assumptions here from what I’m reading in the comments. No one here is calling for you too remove this video. No christian here is calling for you to remove this video, nor has any christian yet made a death threat too you about this video. Muslims have already about fitna, even against the staff of live leak,
Another question Esra why is it that basically every person that makes negative remarks about islam referred to as Islamophobes. Is it not possible to hold a negative view about islam and not be referred to as Islamophobes?
Another question for you Esra. Is it possible for someone to have a negative view, could be a strong or weak view, of Islam and for it to be justified or correct if you will?
The aim of this video, which is really well made and perfect in making its simple point, is totally lost on half of the people who commented here so far. I see many people refusing it blindly instead of being willing to actually see two sides of the same coin and how similar it makes each feel.
We’re all in this together guys, this is the point, but you stand here and insisting to prove that Muslims are different, immoral, and violent. If you felt that this film is propaganda then without a shadow of the doubt, so is “Fitna.”
[...] Schism (The Bible version of Fitna) [...]
I suppose Mary obviously is unaware of the Lord’s Resistance Army in Uganda.
And I’m not sure how she missed the “Army of God” and “The Lambs of Christ,” both summarized below.
(More)
(More)
(More)
What’s this? No outcry? Hypocrites.
Do you see us painting all Christians as “violent” due to the actions of a few? No, because it would be illogical to do so. Just as illogical as painting us all as “violent” because some bored PM decided to shuffle a few verses around along with footage of 9/11. If you insist this represents us, then I guess you will have no problem with us insisting that these terrorist Christian organizations represent all of you.
There is outcry I suggest when searching for the outcry you use the term prolife. When your dealing with the abortion debate search using the terms prolife and prochoice. You will find your outcry against james kopp that way. Don’t worry the prolife are considered christian radicals or religous fanatics.
Oh my. This goes to the person who a few days ago claimed that no violence against women exists in Christianity or is committed by any Christians.
Read more about them here.
America’s Promise Ministries:
Mary, what was that, Christians are non-violent and preach no form of hatred or bigotry in the name of their faith?
Please don’t disappear yet, we need you to enlighten us.
Then I guess you didn’t bother searching for “Muslims against terrorism.” Results 1 - 10 of about 274,000 for Muslims against terrorism.
[...] Uhr, 05-04-2008: Schism (The Bible version of Fitna) @ Mideast Youth von Esra’a Al-Shafei, Bahrain: Now that many Islamophobes expressed their [...]
What the hell are you bringing me in it for? I never said muslims were not against terrorism. You said there was no outcry for james kopp and others for doing similar actions. I proved you wrong.
You’re no better then mary.
Oh really? Show me a single thread in any anti-Muslim blog (Jihad Watch, Jawa Report, LGF, Malkin, et al) where Christian commenters admit that violence happens in the name of their religion too instead of abusing Muslims in their “holier than thou” attitude. I see no condemnation against Christian terrorism in any of these blogs, which according to Technorati are all amongst the top 100 most visited, meaning their opinions are shared by many.
That’s hardly proving me wrong, just reinforces the argument.
Maybe they’re too busy oppressing their own and bombing abortion clinics. Oh, see what I did there?
No you said there was no outcry whatsoever by anyone against those who attacked abortion clinics. I proved you wrong in that there was an outcry by people against such attacks.
I see what you are doing and that is your allowing your anger to cloud your judgment. The problem here is that your taking this comment that has nothing to do with the abortion debate and yet you are applying it. What I’m further seeing here is a person that is no different then mary and is trying to act as if they are.
Correction You said there was no outcry whatsoever by christians aginst those who attacked abortion clinics.
The difference was already expressed here for anyone unlike you who bothered to read:
Do you not see the equivalence?
You don’t. Hence the petty arguments. You understood neither the purpose of this post nor the purpose of the video. Neither are anti-Christian, like Mary’s comment was anti-Islamic. We are trying to prove that you can make any religion, including Christianity, appear to be hateful.
Mary is far from trying to present a different perspective, all she did was justify a hateful ideology, which seems to be not far from what you are doing because instead of criticizing that, you jumped to say that Muslims are the ones doing all the threatening. Funny that you didn’t bother criticizing her, maybe because she is in the same boat as you are.
Poor comparison. Try another argument.
Nowhere did I say this.
I said:
From the likes of Mary and the Islamophobic bigots, especially the ones representing the most ill-informed right-wing blogs which unfortunately dominate much of the blogosphere, there is indeed no outcry.
I did NOT say that no Christians were criticizing Christian extremism. There are Arab Christians on this website condemning terrorism in the name of their faith, nowhere did I claim otherwise. I’m also not comparing Islam and Christianity, or saying that one is better than the other. I’m saying they both receive different reactions within the media and beyond, especially here in the cybersphere.
Why?
“What about Bush’s comment of going to war in the name of Jesus Christ? As in Jesus apparently “asked” him to attack Iraq? Is this not religious terrorism?”
George Bush wanted to bring peace to Iraq, not war.
It doesn’t matter whether this was a good idea or whether it could be done at all. But if you want to judge his intentions, you must judge what it actually was he wanted.
He did not want to kill Iraqis and he did not want to occupy Iraq for America.
He did indeed, partly, do it because of his religious beliefs. But his religious beliefs did not tell him to make war for war’s sake. If the invasion of Iraq could have been done without killing anyone but top-level Baathists, George Bush would have been a lot happier than he is now.
If Christianity is what moves George Bush and Islam is what moves Al-Qaeda, I prefer Christianity.
But I don’t believe it’s true.
“Why do Islamophobes get away with it, and anti-Semites don’t?”
Anti-Semites tend to make up stuff and pretend that it represents Judaism. Islamophobes take what is there and pretend that it represent Islam.
Islamophobes get away with it because there are indeed many (self-proclaimed) Muslims that murder people for their beliefs, stone women for adultery, and try to “throw the Jews into the sea”.
The most famous works of anti-Semites are “Mein Kampf” and the “The Protocols of the Elders of Zion”. Both are entirely made up.
What i don’t understand is why Fitna has become such a huge public issue. The video you posted Esra’a is just another example of hundreds and probably thousands hatred videos spread around the web on any contested topic. So is Fitna. It goes into the same category of amateur hatred promotion. I don’t think any of these deserves such a huge public attention, and I don’t think continuing debating them helps building any kind of understanding. See the comments here for example - they all are black and white, and i have little faith that anyone was provoked to think differently from their original points.
“Thinking ahead” in my mind is first of all thinking thoroughly, and then also thinking differently, which implies not falling into the traditional traps such as pinpointing. I think mideastyouth is an amazing project that has a lot of examples of this kind of “thinking ahead” in providing innovative views on issues and raising non standard points. I don’t think debating Fitnas, Schisms, and their kind is one of them and i think it is actually counterproductive to promoting that kind of different thought that keeps at least me coming back to the website.
Let’s see.. we have some quotes from the Old Testament, then some soldiers beating up some civilians, then some poor, brainwashed kids… I don’t get it.
Where are the clerics that command Christians to martyr themselves, where are the beheadings of Muslim hostages,etc.
Am I supposed to be insulted ? Whose flag should I burn ? Which country should I boycott ?
Some religious people are violent. In every religion. Some non-religious persons say these ppl are crazy BECAUSE of religion. Just prove them wrong.
The Reformation addressed many ills, but a the Catholic’s Church propensity for violence was not among the targets. In fact the Lutherans and Catholics pretty much tried to outdo each other during the 30-year war.
Some do.
It would be hilarious if Christians referred to Koranic verses to justify violence.
However, Christians did historically justify violence with Bible quotes.
True.
But neither was the Iraqi army an Islamic organisation, and neither were the armies of Egypt and Syria when they attacked Israel. And the PLO is not Islamic either, but secular with Christian and Muslim members.
Same for the Quran.
How can you tell whether an Arab child toting an AK47 is a Muslim or a Christian?
In my experience terrorists never wanted to spread the word of G-d when they were kidnapping, beheading, rioting, protesting, etc.
Do you think terrorists kill Jews to spread the word of G-d? How does that work? The Jews already have the word of G-d plus a dead Jew wouldn’t hear it any more.
The protests seem to be mostly caused by stupidity and illiteracy. Islam is not the cause of illiteracy. (In fact, Islam was a major cause of people learning to read. Even today the Hindi word for book is “kitab”, an Arabic loan word.) Maybe Islam is the cause of stupidity, but then I don’t see why Christianity wouldn’t be.
It got me thinking about how one identifies the religion of a child with a gun.
I have heard some pretty nasty stories about what Koptic priests say about Israel in Egyptian churches. Don’t know if they actually command Christians to “martyr” themselves. But I could imagine it.
Must happen in Iraq, surely. The terrorists usually target Muslims in Iraq (since there are so many of them there).
Replace old testament with the Quran and you just described “Fitna” in a nutshell.
And I think you’re right when you say that you don’t get it. The creator of the video did not create this as an attack on Christianity, he simply said it’s easy to take quotes from any holy book, twist it, bring up images and elements of the most extreme factions of religion and turn it into a poorly made slideshow. And he’s right. This is what Wilders did, this is what you people are justifying, this is the kind of insipid bullshit you allow yourself to fall for.
Can people maybe read the comments before commenting so that we don’t end up repeating ourselves 10 times?
Actually you did say that, What’s this? No outcry? Hyprocrites. That is referring to all christians considering the post On 05.04.08 at 13:13 MDT was referring to all christians, you never made a distinction between any christian/denomination/christian group you just used the word christian, heck you didn’t even use the blog either. Because of the fact that used the word christian only that means you are referring to all christians when you said:
“What’s this? No outcry? Hypocrites”.
So because of that you were saying that there was not a single christian that was against the attacks I proved you wrong.
You made sweeping statement that all christians are not against attacks on abortionists. Mary made a sweeping statements about all muslims in her post list here in #3, #6,#7. She only used the muslims just like you only used the word christian(s) in your post. Neither one of you bothered to classify them further, like down to sect or what group they belonged too. In fact it was because of her not further classifying the muslims down to like radical muslims or radical muslims groups which you took to meant all muslims right here:
“If you insist this represents us, then I guess you will have no problem with us insisting that these terrorist Christian organizations represent all of you.”
Since you interpreted the word muslim to mean all muslims then that means when you were using the word christian(s) you were referring to all christians.
So then how are you and mary the same? You both made/make sweeping statements about one anothers religon which means you are no better then mary and mary is no better then you.
I would appreciate it if you stop being a child and insisting to put words in my mouth.
Nowhere did I make a sweeping generalization for the reasons already mentioned above (and more than once.) Stop making things up in your head and start finding real arguments to refute the issue with. Thank you.
Ignore Noliving Esra’a, just a troll trying his best to cause some noise with little to no success. Let’s go on with the topic.
ROFL… if you wona see Christians committing terrorism in the name of Christianity, goto Africa, where there are far more violence due to Christianity than any where else int he world due to Islam.
Ahh forget it…
Please tell me. Where in the new testiment does it say to Kill. Where in the new testiment does it say to war?
Mohammad, led a violent conquest at times!
The early Jews of the Old Testament had violent wars as do modern day Muslims. However, since the arrival of Christ, a Jew, we are to denounce such violence. Jesus never killed anyone, nor did he lead an army to do such. Nor did he advocate it. He was the only true immaculate martyr the world has ever seen. Muslims even acknowledge his importance as a prophet of God and believe in the Virgin Birth, but they were led astray by Mohammad. I believe Mohammad was a man of God, but eventually fell into man’s evil temptations at times. Radical Muslims today, justify their violence using Mohammad as there model and master teacher. In My view, a very dangerous road to go down.
I believe the Quran’s teachings are 95% peaceful. Islam is a religion we must be “tolerant” of. But the 5% is what I worry about. We must not allow or appease the people who make up this 5% to take over and convert the world by the sword. The Christian Crusaders tried to wipe out the Jews and the Muslims and were wrong in doing so. And I condemn it as would Christ. Assuming my percentages are correct, with 1.3 billion Muslims in the world today, that leaves 65 million bad guys. That’s a big number theoretically.
As for the modern day Jews. I feel they have been blinded as prophesized and can’t see the light of Christ. They are still awaiting the savior. They are still bound by their old covenant with God. This Covenant has been bastardized by the Jews over the years as some Christians have done so with the New Testament. Mohammed recognized it and built his following around the restoration of the original covenant with Moses and Abraham. Somewhat similar to what the Mormons are doing since the 1800s except for the violence. Since Mormons are believers of Christ, they will not advocate violence as he taught.
So, by contrast, Christ only brought and taught peace to the world. But he also warned us of evil and hypocrisy and that all men will be judged by the Father. Meanwhile we should resist temptation, repent and forgive our neighbors and follow Christ as the model.
This kind of talk makes me wanna projectile vomit all over the wall.
Esra’a,
You sound intelligent. So elaborate on the nausea. Are you a Muslim? Do you believe in a violent Jihad against “Infadels”?
I can’t believe you folks are still talking about that video. With all this exposure, I hope Geert can’t speak English, otherwise I’ll have to tolerate an entire season of talk shows and reality TV pilots with him spouting his crap.
So, Christianity breeding terrorists, violence, nasty things just like Islam?
WELL DUH! There is ample historical record to show that BOTH religions have spawned more than their fair share of atrocities; there are very few religions on the planet that haven’t.
Also, don’t get me started on the present! Every bearded AK wielding Jihadist has his (or her) mirror in a child soldier of the Congo (Christian), a US general who remarks about a “crusade” in Iraq, and every hatred spouting cleric (many of whom are getting their air time after becoming political refugees in the West, talk about irony)has a blue suit, big tie, hair helmet born again “minister” doing basically exactly the same thing.
Anyone who maintains that Christianity doesn’t have a mountain of bodies in it’s closet ignores: the KKK ( a protestant fellowship, doncha know) the Inquisition (speaks for itself), every native culture and government ON THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE and countless other fun and frolicksome policies and projects that white people with Bibles have done to everyone else.
Ooo, but that’s in the past. Well, how about the 20th century? Modern enough for you? How about the thousands of native children kidnapped from their parents and families to be brutalized in religious schools? How about Black chruches being burned down and ministers shot and hung? HOW ABOUT MARTIN LUTHER KING? HOW ABOUT YUGOSLAVIA?
Let’s be honest about the amazing wonders of organized Christia worship. Our modern society in the West, our freedoms, human rights, legal accomplishents, and standard of living occurred within a Christian culture. But they also occurred because generations of learned men and women KICKED THE CRACKER ASS CHURCHES OUT OF THE COURTS AND THE GOVERNMENT!
For the record, quite a bit of the vitriol I have towards institutionalized Christianity I also reserve for the fundamentalist Islamic movements. Nothing boils my blood more than some wide-eyed freak proclaiming how it’s justified to murder other people “because God wants it so” and waving a copy of the Quran around like he’s the Prophet’s personal interpreter. But he isn’t. Just like the punkass grunts in this video aren’t the frontmen for the New Testmament.
I think you folks are great and I respect you opinions, but really, the Pain of a Dane is being given far too much play here.
How about a discussion about Hamas’ puppet theatre? (Ya baby! Stab that Texan!
Haven’t laughed so much since Farfur got the beatdown for his keys)
Interesting film and if you believe that to be true even though it only quoted the Old Testiment and not the testiment of Christ then so be it.
No Christians will call for anyone to be killed for the insult to Christianity.
No Christians will parade in the steets calling for official sanction.
No Christians will block YouTube into their countries.
No Christians will attempt to silence your right to free speech.
The author of the film will not be threatened or have to have permanent bodyguards.
You will know them by their “Deeds not Words”.
Good job Esra. I appreciate your post
It would be nice, just for once, when people realized that Christians follow a New Covenant, and Mosaic Law is not applicable for Christians.
For the New Covenant, see Luke 22:20 and Jeremiah 31:31-32
Esra’a, if you think YOU sound level-headed I got news for you. I’m sorry to say this but I personally think this is the biggest pile of bullshit I could imagine coming from you.
You say “We’re not outraged because we’re in denial. We’re outraged because blablabla….”, are you speaking on behalf of Muslims or Muslim terrorists?
As a Muslim myself, I strongly reject your generalizing statement and I resent the fact that you’re legitimizing the one source of hatred but not the other. Clearly your intent was to raise the level of back and forth hatred going on by personally endorsing this pathetic video, because if you really wanted to promote understanding, responding in kind to Wilders’ incitement to hatred only legitimizes his hateful motives and the kind of control he and his ilk have over you.
The right thing to do is reject all forms of hatred regardless of who or where it’s coming from. You go ahead and accuse others of bigotry, but when you fail to see that you’re just as much of a bigot when you’re endorsing this video, among other things, you lose all credibility IMHO.
Esra,
Holocaust Denial movies will make them more annoy. Thats the christianity world dogma! They deny the jews genocide!
David Duke: “In Europe you can freely question, ridicule and deny Jesus Christ. The same is true for the prophet Muhammad, and nothing will happen to you. But offer a single question of the smallest part of the Holocaust and you face prison.”
Frederick Töben: “Minds are being switched off to the Holocaust dogma as it is being sold as a historical fact and yet we are not able to question it. This is mental rape.”
The punk ass grunts in the video aren’t even American….they’re Iraqi. War, murder and mayhem seem to be a natural state of mankind. An abundant and never-ending supply of assholes in this world is, evidently, natural too. Will we ever get past this “fitna” aberration? Can we get past this “he said, she said” crap too? The importance of “fitna” seems to be that lots of people want to get some feelings aired. Maybe that’s a good thing even if feelings are hurt and feathers ruffled. If more hard feelings are discussed, can that be beneficial? Actually, I like the idea of everyone acknowledging their feelings and talking about them without fear. I don’t have to like what anyone else thinks or feels, but I MUST concede their right to have those thoughts and feelings. Their viewpoint almost automatically begins a “judgement” type thought precess that compares my view with theirs and assigns a level of validity to each. What can that start? Understanding? Tolerance? Respect? Now there’s some concepts for ya!
Myrtus, thanks for NOT reading any of the goddamned comments here.
I am not sure why people are so lazy and dimwitted to the point of not understanding the point of this movie at all.
How many times must one has to repeat themselves? Who is agreeing with this video and its content? Who is endorsing it? Are you out of your mind or just super lazy not to have read any of the comments and the purpose of the video itself?
It’s like this thread is a refuge for the eternally retarded.
People; read the comments. I’m sick of repeating myself and inviting all of these psycho reactions that aren’t even informed.
Myrtus, sorry to be the one breaking this to you, but you’re pretty dense. I agree that people should make an effort to read the comments before making such personal comments.
It’s perfectly clear why this video was posted. She is not trying to say that this is how Christianity really is, she is trying to show that Islamophobia is comparable to this kind of bullshit yet everyone gets away with it, including Wilders with his “Fitna.” In the comments it also shows that members of every faith kill in the name of God or their prophets, not just Islam, but you only see people demonizing Islam in the mainstream media. Hence this video.
The creator of this video is not anti-Christian. The disclaimer in the end reads, and I’m paraphrasing: It is easy to take a holy book and make it sound like the most violent or hateful book out there. This is what Geert did, and this is what the creator of the video is trying to prove wrong.
So everyone needs to calm down and understand why this video was here in the first place. No one is agreeing with this video, not even the creator himself. Learn how to read!
The creator of the video should have put his disclaimer in CAPS in the beginning of the video for those too lazy to actually sit through the whole thing. What an embarrassing group of people we have pretending to “debate” here. Seriously? The purpose of the video was lost on like, everyone? I’m losing more and more hope for humanity with every passing moment.
I updated the post with an explanation for the shallow ones who didn’t get it the first time around.
People,
The release of Fitna is a good thing. Because it brings people to the table for discussion. In addition it has illuminated people with hatred in their hearts on all sides. These people need to be exposed. Violence is not the answer. Education is. Not indoctrination. See the following series talking about such indoctrinations. Please see all 10 parts of “Obsession: Radical Islam’s War Against the West”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMLJJEDDDGc
Again, I ask you all:
“Where in the new testiment does it say to Kill. Where in the new testiment does it say to war?”
Chritians who war are not true Christians. Jesus never advocated war.
He did say to follow the 10 commandments. It is as valid now as it was when Moses delivered it to the world. We are not to kill people who don’t follow it either. That would be the ultimate hypocrisy.
Muslims, Jews and Christian all have the same roots. Abrahim and Moses are the great prophets we share the legacy of. WE all need to respect the right to free will handed to us by God. We need to teach people how to pray, not to kill. We need to teach people how to love each other, not hate. We need to teach each other how to respect each other as children of God, not incite violence against “infadels of Satan.” God the Father is the Judge, not men.
Esra’a
I read your updated post. And I think it is a bit of a cop out. The film you posted does shown the other side. It shows Christian who commit violence. However the parts where they show the children speaking about being part of God’s Army is taken way out of context as did the maker of the original film they plagerized from “Jesus Camp”. Nowhere in the film did the Children advocate violence. They are talking about sprititual warfare described in the Bible. It is the same thing that Jihad is. A struggle against evil. God does not want us to kill his children. We are “ALL” his children.
You call people “Dimwitted” because they feel you are being anti-Christian. You should not insult people for expressing opinions. It’s the purpose of this blog to foster discussion, right. Or is it to insite hatred or polerize people?
It seems like you still do not get it!
That is the whole POINT! For the film to be taken out of CONTEXT, the way Wilder’s was. Please read the disclaimer. Please read why the creator of the film INTENTIONALLY twisted everything for the sheer sake of making a point about how Wilders equally twisted everything. He is using the same tactic, but not promoting a similar message towards Christianity. The point here is “don’t be fooled,” not “hate Christians.”
Does anyone here besides Murad understand why this film was created in the first place?!
My God! You people are impossible!
One of MEY’s primary aims is to foster interfaith dialogue and spread awareness and tolerance between different religious groups.
While Esra’a’s primary intention behind this post might have been encouraging a discussion, this thread quickly descended into a vitriolic hurling of accusations and is frankly not the level of discussion worthy of MEY. Therefore, this thread is now closed.