While Esra’a’s primary intention behind this post might have been encouraging a discussion, this thread quickly descended into a vitriolic hurling of accusations and is frankly not the level of discussion worthy of MEY. Therefore, this thread is now closed.

The film you posted does shown the other side. It shows Christian who commit violence. However the parts where they show the children speaking about being part of God’s Army is taken way out of context as did the maker of the original film they plagerized from “Jesus Camp”.

That is the whole POINT! For the film to be taken out of CONTEXT, the way Wilder’s was. Please read the disclaimer. Please read why the creator of the film INTENTIONALLY twisted everything for the sheer sake of making a point about how Wilders equally twisted everything. He is using the same tactic, but not promoting a similar message towards Christianity. The point here is “don’t be fooled,” not “hate Christians.”

Does anyone here besides Murad understand why this film was created in the first place?!

My God! You people are impossible!

I read your updated post. And I think it is a bit of a cop out. The film you posted does shown the other side. It shows Christian who commit violence. However the parts where they show the children speaking about being part of God’s Army is taken way out of context as did the maker of the original film they plagerized from “Jesus Camp”. Nowhere in the film did the Children advocate violence. They are talking about sprititual warfare described in the Bible. It is the same thing that Jihad is. A struggle against evil. God does not want us to kill his children. We are “ALL” his children.

You call people “Dimwitted” because they feel you are being anti-Christian. You should not insult people for expressing opinions. It’s the purpose of this blog to foster discussion, right. Or is it to insite hatred or polerize people?

The release of Fitna is a good thing. Because it brings people to the table for discussion. In addition it has illuminated people with hatred in their hearts on all sides. These people need to be exposed. Violence is not the answer. Education is. Not indoctrination. See the following series talking about such indoctrinations. Please see all 10 parts of “Obsession: Radical Islam’s War Against the West”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMLJJEDDDGc

Again, I ask you all:

“Where in the new testiment does it say to Kill. Where in the new testiment does it say to war?”

Chritians who war are not true Christians. Jesus never advocated war.
He did say to follow the 10 commandments. It is as valid now as it was when Moses delivered it to the world. We are not to kill people who don’t follow it either. That would be the ultimate hypocrisy.

Muslims, Jews and Christian all have the same roots. Abrahim and Moses are the great prophets we share the legacy of. WE all need to respect the right to free will handed to us by God. We need to teach people how to pray, not to kill. We need to teach people how to love each other, not hate. We need to teach each other how to respect each other as children of God, not incite violence against “infadels of Satan.” God the Father is the Judge, not men.

It’s perfectly clear why this video was posted. She is not trying to say that this is how Christianity really is, she is trying to show that Islamophobia is comparable to this kind of bullshit yet everyone gets away with it, including Wilders with his “Fitna.” In the comments it also shows that members of every faith kill in the name of God or their prophets, not just Islam, but you only see people demonizing Islam in the mainstream media. Hence this video.

The creator of this video is not anti-Christian. The disclaimer in the end reads, and I’m paraphrasing: It is easy to take a holy book and make it sound like the most violent or hateful book out there. This is what Geert did, and this is what the creator of the video is trying to prove wrong.

So everyone needs to calm down and understand why this video was here in the first place. No one is agreeing with this video, not even the creator himself. Learn how to read!

I am not sure why people are so lazy and dimwitted to the point of not understanding the point of this movie at all.

How many times must one has to repeat themselves? Who is agreeing with this video and its content? Who is endorsing it? Are you out of your mind or just super lazy not to have read any of the comments and the purpose of the video itself?

It’s like this thread is a refuge for the eternally retarded.

People; read the comments. I’m sick of repeating myself and inviting all of these psycho reactions that aren’t even informed.

Holocaust Denial movies will make them more annoy. Thats the christianity world dogma! They deny the jews genocide!

David Duke: “In Europe you can freely question, ridicule and deny Jesus Christ. The same is true for the prophet Muhammad, and nothing will happen to you. But offer a single question of the smallest part of the Holocaust and you face prison.”
Frederick Töben: “Minds are being switched off to the Holocaust dogma as it is being sold as a historical fact and yet we are not able to question it. This is mental rape.”

If it angered you, and if you felt misrepresented, good. Now, you can finally understand where we are coming from, and why we consider this material to be abusive.

We’re not outraged because we’re in denial. We’re outraged because we’re misunderstood, and discrimination against us is justified with such bigotry. Why do Islamophobes get away with it, and anti-Semites don’t?

Compare your reactions. If you reacted differently to each video; thinking it’s okay to demonize Islam but not any other religion, your bias is apparent and you should no longer claim to be level-headed.

Esra’a, if you think YOU sound level-headed I got news for you. I’m sorry to say this but I personally think this is the biggest pile of bullshit I could imagine coming from you.
You say “We’re not outraged because we’re in denial. We’re outraged because blablabla….”, are you speaking on behalf of Muslims or Muslim terrorists?

As a Muslim myself, I strongly reject your generalizing statement and I resent the fact that you’re legitimizing the one source of hatred but not the other. Clearly your intent was to raise the level of back and forth hatred going on by personally endorsing this pathetic video, because if you really wanted to promote understanding, responding in kind to Wilders’ incitement to hatred only legitimizes his hateful motives and the kind of control he and his ilk have over you.

The right thing to do is reject all forms of hatred regardless of who or where it’s coming from. You go ahead and accuse others of bigotry, but when you fail to see that you’re just as much of a bigot when you’re endorsing this video, among other things, you lose all credibility IMHO.

However, Christians did historically justify violence with Bible quotes.

It would be nice, just for once, when people realized that Christians follow a New Covenant, and Mosaic Law is not applicable for Christians.

For the New Covenant, see Luke 22:20 and Jeremiah 31:31-32

You sound intelligent. So elaborate on the nausea. Are you a Muslim? Do you believe in a violent Jihad against “Infadels”?

As for the modern day Jews. I feel they have been blinded as prophesized and can’t see the light of Christ. They are still awaiting the savior.

This kind of talk makes me wanna projectile vomit all over the wall.

Mohammad, led a violent conquest at times!

The early Jews of the Old Testament had violent wars as do modern day Muslims. However, since the arrival of Christ, a Jew, we are to denounce such violence. Jesus never killed anyone, nor did he lead an army to do such. Nor did he advocate it. He was the only true immaculate martyr the world has ever seen. Muslims even acknowledge his importance as a prophet of God and believe in the Virgin Birth, but they were led astray by Mohammad. I believe Mohammad was a man of God, but eventually fell into man’s evil temptations at times. Radical Muslims today, justify their violence using Mohammad as there model and master teacher. In My view, a very dangerous road to go down.

I believe the Quran’s teachings are 95% peaceful. Islam is a religion we must be “tolerant” of. But the 5% is what I worry about. We must not allow or appease the people who make up this 5% to take over and convert the world by the sword. The Christian Crusaders tried to wipe out the Jews and the Muslims and were wrong in doing so. And I condemn it as would Christ. Assuming my percentages are correct, with 1.3 billion Muslims in the world today, that leaves 65 million bad guys. That’s a big number theoretically.

As for the modern day Jews. I feel they have been blinded as prophesized and can’t see the light of Christ. They are still awaiting the savior. They are still bound by their old covenant with God. This Covenant has been bastardized by the Jews over the years as some Christians have done so with the New Testament. Mohammed recognized it and built his following around the restoration of the original covenant with Moses and Abraham. Somewhat similar to what the Mormons are doing since the 1800s except for the violence. Since Mormons are believers of Christ, they will not advocate violence as he taught.

So, by contrast, Christ only brought and taught peace to the world. But he also warned us of evil and hypocrisy and that all men will be judged by the Father. Meanwhile we should resist temptation, repent and forgive our neighbors and follow Christ as the model.

Ahh forget it…

Actually you did say that,

I would appreciate it if you stop being a child and insisting to put words in my mouth.

Nowhere did I make a sweeping generalization for the reasons already mentioned above (and more than once.) Stop making things up in your head and start finding real arguments to refute the issue with. Thank you.

“What’s this? No outcry? Hypocrites”.

So because of that you were saying that there was not a single christian that was against the attacks I proved you wrong.

You made sweeping statement that all christians are not against attacks on abortionists. Mary made a sweeping statements about all muslims in her post list here in #3, #6,#7. She only used the muslims just like you only used the word christian(s) in your post. Neither one of you bothered to classify them further, like down to sect or what group they belonged too. In fact it was because of her not further classifying the muslims down to like radical muslims or radical muslims groups which you took to meant all muslims right here:

“If you insist this represents us, then I guess you will have no problem with us insisting that these terrorist Christian organizations represent all of you.”

Since you interpreted the word muslim to mean all muslims then that means when you were using the word christian(s) you were referring to all christians.

So then how are you and mary the same? You both made/make sweeping statements about one anothers religon which means you are no better then mary and mary is no better then you.

Let’s see.. we have some quotes from the Old Testament, then some soldiers beating up some civilians, then some poor, brainwashed kids… I don’t get it.

Replace old testament with the Quran and you just described “Fitna” in a nutshell.

And I think you’re right when you say that you don’t get it. The creator of the video did not create this as an attack on Christianity, he simply said it’s easy to take quotes from any holy book, twist it, bring up images and elements of the most extreme factions of religion and turn it into a poorly made slideshow. And he’s right. This is what Wilders did, this is what you people are justifying, this is the kind of insipid bullshit you allow yourself to fall for.

Can people maybe read the comments before commenting so that we don’t end up repeating ourselves 10 times?

Where are the clerics that command Christians to martyr themselves,

I have heard some pretty nasty stories about what Koptic priests say about Israel in Egyptian churches. Don’t know if they actually command Christians to “martyr” themselves. But I could imagine it.

where are the beheadings of Muslim hostages,etc.

Must happen in Iraq, surely. The terrorists usually target Muslims in Iraq (since there are so many of them there).

and i have little faith that anyone was provoked to think differently from their original points.

It got me thinking about how one identifies the religion of a child with a gun.