by Lord Kavi
These days due to climatology, its not hard to understand tomorrow’s, next ten days or even next month weather condistions as weather forecastings forecast the future’s conditions.
By the way, falling rain in Fars made people very happy!
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If we pray, and our prayers are answered, does it really matter why? And even if you can point to a scientific answer, could there be another answer behind the science? Could the science be just a precise description of the mysterious?
These are the kind of questions which keep faith alive for a lot of people. And there is nothing wrong in that. The wrong comes when peoples, faith takes them in a direction opposite to the will of God.
Of course the Muslims should thank their wise, almighty, merciful, misogynist and warmongering Allah.
yeah, blame it on the accurate weather forecast.
the Egyptian Imam Al-Shaarawi did the same thing in Algeria, and it was the Algerian president Houari Boumédiènne who asked him to perform this prayer which yielded instant results.
also i read somewhere that the Senegalese people mass conversion to Islam was triggered by a similar event.
as long as you do not provide me with a thorough, concrete ‘scientific’ explanation for whatever mundane wonders happen day in day out, I would prefer to rely on Moral Argument and thank God for every single issue of life.
Mohammad, science can go just so far, and then there is the realization, for many of us, that there is a meaning beyond the confines of science. Even Einstein came to this realization when he concluded that some ultimate entity must have put these physical laws in place. He may have not believed in a “personal God,” but I think he did believe in something, beyond the constraints of scientific principles.
Nissim Dahan,
I really know what you mean, and have no problem with that. If you believe in God and you are a religious too, then it is obvious you should thank God; but how do you connect a prayer to falling rain?
And he did not pray till we understood that there would be a rainfall! Why didnt he pray before then? Cheating on people?
Lord:
I do not have any problem with calling (some of the) Ayatollahs ‘cheaters’ for some of them are really cheaters. however, I dont know about this certain man, and I dont know if he knew about the weather forecast. Moreover I dont know how one might trust suffering weather forecast of Iranians (“tomorrow we will have a sunny day with a little rain maybe in form of snow, if nothing else is going to happen”).
BUT, I link the rainfall, as well as any other single issue of life, to the God… not only through all the siginificant holes of today sicence, but also through the last sentence of Nissim: “some ultimate entity must have put these physical laws in place.”
Lord Kavi, I understand your skepticism about the Ayatollah’s call to prayer after learning of the weather report.
However, if we are ever going to sell the man on the street on a Vision of Hope, we will have to use the language he understands.
What is prayer? It is a community of like-minded individuals coming together to ask God for all sorts of favors. And if they ask for rain, and rain comes, that is all good. It reaffirms their beilief in God, and in their sense of community.
To sell people, you have to speak their language. A lot of people believe in Moses, or Jesus, or Muhammad. I say, if you believe in them, why not be more like them? And in the final analysis, what were they? They were salesmen. And what did they sell? They sold people on a Vision of Hope.
Today, reasonable people like yourself, also have a big sales job ahead of them. You have to convince people to turn away from extremism, and to embrace the possibility of hope. To do that, we may have to use prayer, even when it’s not so scientific, in order to speak with people in a way that they can relate to, so that they would remain open to new possibilities.
Then I may believe in you as the new prophet!
And everyone would be a prophet!
Mohammad,
Your first paragraph, agreed!
Second one:
If you consider god as physical things and physical laws, then I think I have nothing to say! I cant convince you and also have nothing to discuss, but it dosent mean that I bacame convinced, myself.
This time you won
Lord Kavi, we are all prophets in search of the right message. Why should we believe that the truth was only revealed a long time ago? Isn’t the truth with us right here and right now. And don’t we owe it to ourselves to speak the truth as we see it. And so, in a very real way, we are the prophets of our time, and history will judge us by the words we speak, and the truths we discovered.
Lord:
I strongly believe that we are not here to convince each other. even we are not here to reach a consensus. we are here to practice dialogue, and that is all. we are boys, dude
with regards to God issue, I have a high opinion of Mullasadra’s view. (Nissim: Mullasadra is a Persian philosopher of many centuries ago, and his position is somehow comparable with that of Spinosa. and you know, Einstein was obsessed with Spinosa’s God).
Mohammad,
Albsolutely! I always liked to study Mullasadra, but hadnt that chance; he is great, you know. Maybe I should start it.
Lord:
I’m afraid if you get dissappointed by him, and there is a reason for this. let me explain.
several years ago, I got an original copy of “an introduction to philosophical analysis” by John Hospers. it is a great book, and I suggest you to resort to the original english copy, for its persian translations, though accurate, fail to establish the fluency and delicacy of the original. while reading the book, very often it happens that I feel this man, with his sense of humor, is standing next to me, speaking lively and kindly, doing his best to communicate his ideas. that is why this book is one of the 3 books I keep next to my bed, as my bed stories! (the other 2 are: a story for children, and a novel.)
but Mulla Sadra never tries to explicitly communicate his thoughts. there are translations of some of his works, none of them worthy of mentioning, for his Language is so tough that his works are undoubtedly untranslatable (somehow similar to those of Martin Heidegger). for example, in a simple sentenece, he might use “vojood” in 3 different meanings. then, you need a background of his thought so as to understand his thougt, what a paradoxical phenomenon!
then, you may need a superviser as well as much patience, unless you wanna become the ever confused.
I wonder if their prayers were also answered in the eastern province of saudi arabia.. since it has been rainin on n off past 2 days.. [u knw cloud paatterns]
:d
What the..? It was just rain! It does that sometimes! Sometimes it doesn’t! Fasting and praying had nothing to do with it unless one happened to be “seeding” clouds at the same time. Not to be rude here, but if praying actually got that kind of immediate, concrete results, then why aren’t the areas where intense amounts of regular prayer occur virtual paradises on earth? And for that matter, why are the weather conditions over Las Vegas and Washington so stable? If piety and meteorological phenomena are linked, what does that make weather broadcasters? Especially the accurate ones?
And why does lightning strike men four times as often as women?
eric,
I agree with what you say.
Then Mecca should have been greener today, and also other religion related sites.
Eric, no one is saying that prayer made the rain happen. Prayer just tells us what the people want, how they relate to one another, and how they relate to their Creator. We have to take all of that into account if we hope to have even half a chance to move these people. We have to learn their language, and their beliefs as well. And then we have to craft an approach that takes all of that into account, as we begin to suggest the possibility of change.
Why is all this important? Give the man on the street a sense of hope, and he will give you back his heart in return. But he will not listen if you don’t speak his language, or cater to his beliefs. So our hope for change is inextricably linked to our ability to penetrate the relgious mind, and to suggest a different approach, ever cognizant of the inner workings of religious sensibilities. It will be tricky at best.
Because our penis acts as a lightning rod
I maybe wrong…
Either that, Jina, or it’s because our wives kicked us out of the house, and we have nowhere to go during the storm.