Death penalty in Palestine…
According to Haaretz:
“Palestinian judges ordered the execution of a man for collaborating with Israel in Hebron on Monday.”
Well, we’re (illegally) killing each other in this country every day. We’re in a war. We all oppose this sort of killing.
This man is accused for “collaborating” with “the ennemy” – treason, if you want. A Palestinian judge in Hebron decided that it is “legal” to kill this man. At the same time, fathers and brothers who kill their wifes or sisters for reasons of “honor” go free. Am I wrong? Are there any other death sentences pronounced in Palestinian courts?
What about “legal killing” and death sentence at all?
I’ve always opposed death sentences, anywhere. I cannot make an exception in this case. Making an exception is using double standards… Most of us, I guess, are opposed to death sentences in the US, and as far as I know all (or, if not, most) European countries have abolished it, Amnesty is fighting it. Can we stay silent in this case?
I think we cannot. I cannot make an “exception” to something I consider as an universal principle.
So: what are we going to do about this??
Waiting for your thoughts…
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“The death penalty violates the right to life. It is the ultimate cruel, inhuman and degrading punishment. It has no place in a modern criminal justice system.” – Amnesty International
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Alice, I have heard of some more deaths due to collaboration with Israel, specially in Gaza. The region is so mixed up that people wiht different views live close to one another and the restricting borderlines make one a resident of a place which is considered the enemy of the other, some times even living some miles out of this border would make one feel safe and secure. I wish there was a way in keeping this guy alive, same thing is happening here in Iran with our Kurdish youth. We can’t stay silent and we can’t be loud as well. Here is not Europe.. Are they going to hang him?
Yes, Elinor – usually people only suspected of ‘treason’ or ‘collaboration’ are executed without judgment, by the crowd, in a very violent way. This happens quite often and is awful. In this case, the man is “priviledged” (sorry for being sarcastic), as he was judged by a court. I’m not very sure, though, how fair his trial was… The Palestinian authorities are known to be quite corrupt. I posted this also on another, local site (mepeace.org) and the discussion there is tough – especially because the man is accused of being a ‘traitor’ to the Palestinian cause. Yet, to me the question of “death penalty” is universal and absolute, no matter what crime someone has committed or is accused of. And that is the real issue – that we must stand up even for those we might disapprove of – because if we want human rights to be respected for us, we must respect them for everyone…
– and this is an absolute principle to me – no matter if we’re in Europe or India or China or Irak or or or…
For your question: Mahmoud Abbas (the President of the Palestinian Authority) still has to approve this execution, but if he does, the man will be shot.
Of 45 european countries only one has the death penalty – Belarus, an oldschool leftover from the soviet union, apparently horribly unstable politically.. no other country has the death penalty. So Europe represents aprox 1.6% of all countries that support the death penalty.. Muslim countries where muslims are 60% or more of the population have the pride of having 43.5% of all countries that support the death penalty.. interesting information?
Hi, Haukur. I’m not sure how much religion factors into it. Wouldn’t you say that the European countries that have abandoned capital punishment have done so more from social evolution than from religious reformation?
Alice
an Iraqi friend of mine, whom I found few months ago in some chatrooms, is still mourning for his mother’s death, who was found dead in the street, with few bullets in her chest. then, I cant ignore this comment…of Haukur:
Haukur:
dont worry, pride is not dedicated to Muslims. indeed US gathered much of it for so-called Modern World, even if we come to ignore 20th century’s atrocities committed either directly by world powers or under the auspices of their excellency… just check the number of civilian victims in Iraq and you will find out which world enjoys a better share of “death penalties”, penalties either sanctioned by a judge or by a pilot and his/her bombs.
It seems to me, given history and such, that the very same people that hold their religion the highest and the wonder that is life are the most eager to take it away from others. We can always argue and debate if it’s actually religion that causes it or corrupt people but with this lack of self responsibility when putting all the burden into the hands of the creator one might find one self more free to break one’s own rules.. or bend them a little. Like in the bible, god himself seems to be quite a horrible person who kills people just because they don’t want to bow to him, instead they just try to have a little fun, have sex, do drugs kick back, enjoy life.. that does not come as a happy theme to god who wants people to devote their life to him.. sounds kind of like someone has a personal issue.. So since god is just and the best in the world yet he kills everyone so .. why not me, why can’t I? I just find that having in-built, non-religious ethics basically puts straight out.. don’t kill people, don’t hurt people physically or financially and try to avoid hurting people psychologically all though people are some what fragile in that sense. If one tries, with or without god, to just go by the “simple” rules of in-built ethics we’d just get along much much better. Remove all the addition laws and rules, do your own thing just as long as you follow the three simple rules, that’s my atheist philosophy
And use your brain as you people seem to be doing here, free thought, ponder the existance, break the chains of normality and just let your creativity flow uninhabited.
Haukur, you don’t have to be an atheist to follow your philosophy of life. You can believe in God, and still use some common sense principles to bring order to your life. But if you choose to believe in God, you had better understand what He is all about. If we believe in a false version of God, then we will go about believing and doing all sorts of crazy things in His name no less.
For me, God is the sum total of all the creative energy in the universe. Some 13.7 billion years ago, a great explosion happened, appropriately called The Big Bang. Whatever caused that explosion to happen, including the limitless energy that it unleashed, is God. His energy flows through me, and my energy flows through him.
If we think of God in this manner, then it makes sense to adopt your common sense philosophy toward life. In other words, if God is energy, including the energy of intelligence, then His energy tells me that the universe has been created with certain principles in mind, and that it is up to me to believe in those principles which will allow me to live a good and worthwhile love.
You are right to say that there are basic rules that must govern our behavior, including Alice’s belief that killing is wrong. The Golden Rule: “Treat others as you would have them treat you,” is a cornerstone of morality, not becuase God had to proclaim it, but because He created a universe in which The Golden Rule works logically to allow people to live together well, with the same type of logic that governs mathematics. In fact, if I were any good at math, I would probably be able to state The Golden Rule in mathematical terms.
This type of discussion is important because if we don’t get our thinking straight about God, and about basic ideology, then we will have no chance of allowing common sense notions, of which you speak, to bring order to our lives. It is time to stop believing in what we want to beleive, and to start believing in what makes sense.
SO Alice we can write to Mr. Abbas and appeal? That they don’t hang him, man what a world, every where they do that, Iran is really to be blamed for the death penalty, and the judiciary system is passing through its Empirical stage, trying and resting on the lives of people.
Nissim Dahan, you may be right yet there is a difference between spirituality which is a personal thing and I respect that. Everyone can have any thought or idea in their head and ponder any concept with out me meddling in it. It’s the organized religion that scares the crap out of me. Christian fundamentalists are very organized in expressing their twisted version of the bible and the directness of their interpretations of the word of god. Muslim and jews also come on the fundamental organized pack and all the massive organized, borderline psychopathic, religions are extremely dangerous. I know that Europe got a wakeup call once concerning how easy it is to have people believe in a concept no matter how evil and unethical it is. With that ideology aprox. 6 million people were executed to make way for the new world order, yet it seems that history is about to repeat itself and I don’t think that Europeans want that again, even though we’ve just read it in books. So: Spirituality = good, it’s good to work on oneself and to be at peace with oneself and others.. Organized Religion = BAD, since it is just the question of who is the leader and how intelligent is he when it comes to brainwashing the already half-brainwashed public into doing whatever he/she (probably he though) wants. That’s the reason I like buddist monks, easy going, great morals, no problem, helpful, constantly working on them selves. Today Europes tolerance is declining and they are seeing what’s about to happen, where the boat is heading so to speak. We see muslim countries all over the world and they’re frankly sheit, crap goverments, harsh laws, inhumane behavior towards everyone and everything and massive hate towards almost everyone so why would I want muslim rule. We can all be happy, hold hands, sing Cumbaya and so forth yet the time will come when shit hits the fan and actions will be taken. Frankly I don’t want this, this is just annoying and wasting time instead of actually holding hands and singing happy tunes, perhaps smokin’ a doobie or two but instead the human race constantly has to be at war with someone and today muslims are going for Europe, FACT1, things will get out of hand like the always do, FACT2. So we can thank all that to Organized Religion, this time and most of the times. That’s just my opinion.
One question though, since we’re deep in exchanging philosophies about “things”. Does the muslim youth today believe the Quran or do you interpret it? If chosen “B” than what do you read out of it?
Haukur, I agree with you that we’re heading for real trouble if we don’t get our thinking straight. The West seems reasonable enough, but as history shows, and as you suggest, when the West gets bent out of shape, they go all out, until there’s hardly anyone left standing. So my guess is that if, as you say, there are elements of the Muslim world that want to take the West over, then eventually there will be hell to pay, and innocent people will be killed in huge numbers, and with the deadly technology at our disposal, there may be no turning back.
We’re not heading to a pretty place if we keep it up. So the question becomes: What can we do to move toward the possibility of peace before it’s too late?
The reason I don’t dismiss organized religion is because a vast majority of the world believes in it, and because organized religion can be used to instill the kind of values that could point in the direction of peace. For example, all major religions espouse The Golden Rule. Why? Because they had no choice. The Golden Rule is so universally logical and so self-evident, that any ethical system had no choice but to adopt it in order to remain relevant.
You seem to approve of Buddhist ideology because it coincides with a more universally acceptable form of ethical behavior. It’s not that you’re a Buddhist, in particular, but it is more that you sense that certain ideas are universally relevant, and certain ideas are not.
As you have done, we have to find a way to sort out the good from the bad. In other words, no matter what religion we happen to subscribe to, we have to filter our ideological beliefs through the filter of common sense. Those ideas which make sense to us, we can continue to believe. Those that don’t, we toss aside onto the ash heap of bad ideas. All religions have had to do this, and now Muslims have no choice but to do it as well.
So, to answer your question, if an idea in the Quran makes sense to you, and to the community that you are a part of, then continue to believe it. If it doesn’t, then have the courage to let it go.
The world can no longer afford the luxury of false belief. We could get away with it before because the technology was not as lethal. Today, the technology of death is so ominous, as you suggest, that we have no choice but to reign in some of our beliefs in favor of something we can believe in even more, namely the common sense notions that have been given to us as a gift, as a way to bring a semblance of order to our lives.
We must somehow find a way to conceptualize and sell a system of belief that will filter out all false belief in whatever sphere of human existence it is found, and that will leave intact the ideas which make sense, and the non-threatening ideas that are legitimate aspects of our cultures.
Well put my fellow bretherin’ (old english .. )
So we have established that a) We are at a brink of extinction and b) You’ve got quite a tongue. Now this may come out as somewhat too forward in many senses. I feel! That since radical islam has invaded Europe and we have been caught up in “liberal” (all though not a bad concept at all, it is in this one) goverment. The laws in Europe now is: If I say anything bad about Islam in public (and everyone can interpret that concept) I can be charged with a “hate crime” which I find extremely odd. Now I feel that the “real” muslims, those who interpret islam as a peaceful religion, are more obligated to rid Europe, their place of dwelling, of radical islam. If only muslims would stand up and stand by peace and honor their themselves with removing the threat from themselves and others “The great swelling” of European anti-trust would ease down. But than again to rid the world of future problems all countries should rid their goverment of all religious laws and statements and go with the fundamental basics of human ethics. Now if this fails than it is certain that all the nuclear powered nations will press the button.. maybe no Russia, they caved the last time we almost had a nuclear war .. so. I do believe that a nation that holds an organized religion close to their capitalistic heart like George Bush might, when they stand infront of that button pondering the thought of what lies ahead, they might in a flash instance press the button as a reflex and than.. damn will it all go out just because of an ideology. I personally believed that one day Science would overstep the bounderies of reason and try something extremely stupid and succeed resulting on total destruction. I guess all we can do at this point is wait.
No Haukur, we don’t wait, we do.
You’re probably right to suggest that under the right circumstances the West and the Islamic extremists could end up bringing things to a calamitous end. Once you believe deeply that you’re right, there is no stopping you. Every provocation emboldens you further until you lose sight of what is right and what is wrong. And if you really believe that it is no less than God telling you what to do, then so much the more reason to leave moderation by the wayside, and to escalate the battle until the battle is “won.” And by that time, you may end up right, but dead as well. As you suggest, those who think they hear the voice of God the most, are mostly hard of hearing.
If you want to stop the worst from happening, you have to take a multi-faceted approach, and beat the extremists, wherever they are, at their own game. You co-opt their strategy and thereby marginalize them in the eyes of their own people. If they promote an ideology of violent Jihad, you promote an ideology of common sense. If they invest peanuts in charitable investment, you invest some serious dollars in jobs. If they sell a vision of hope for martyrdom, or paradise, or a caliphate, you sell a vision of hope for peace, prosperity, and freedom. If they believe in cultural isolation, you launch some serious public diplomacy programs. If they fight you with terror, you fight them militarily, but you position the fight within a Vision of Hope. You raise the fight on the ground to a higher moral plain by giving the fight a moral clarity of purpose.
At every turn, you cut them off at the pass and beat them at their own game.
Haukur, you’re right to perceive the cliff that we are all so gingerly approaching. But we either go down as lemmings, or we strategize a way to shift the course of human destiny in a slightly different direction, one that points to the possibility of peace, one that makes more sense.
The forces of good and evil are aligning themselves in a tight balance, and it is up to us, right here and right now, to tip that balance in our favor, in favor of what makes sense; and everything we know and love hangs in that balance. I write about this extensively in my website http://www.sellingavisionofhope.org and you are more than welcome to visit, register, and comment. I think that you, like many others on Mid East Youth, have your finger on the pulse of the dangers that lie ahead. I think we owe it to ourselves to do something about it before it does us in.
Haukur:
first of all, let me recall that you dont ‘see’ muslim countries, you just get a perception through what mainstream media depicts, thus what you ‘feel’ about our countries given the current version of Islam and Muslim countries portrayed in media, may be different from what you could feel living in such societies. evidence: Ive spoken to so many tourists who visit Iran, and they were approving of this fact.
second, what do you think about Malaysia, for example, and probably as the only example?
third,
take ‘men and women are equal’ as an example. today, many muslim people incorporate this principle into their lives, sometimes with a theoretical background and sometimes without it just in a practical level. those who need a theoretical background (so as to, for example, convince their conscience that they are still practicing what Islam orders) make an interpretation of Islam conforming to this principle. check this.
to conclude, I think that many people believe in above principle and many other similar ones (a set of values probably comparable to Human Rights Declaration, or basis of democracy) as some ‘objective’ values, and find most of Islam’s orders as some ‘subjective’ ones, so they try to intrepret the ‘subjective’ one in favour of the ‘objective’ one.
this ‘many people’, however, is not a majority in today society. but: (1) they are from higher social and educational classes, (2) they are increasing in number, (3) they have the support of some powerful clerics. together I find them representing a steady though somehow slow social movement, which would take majority in one or two generations, god willing.
correct:
Check this: http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/07/08/womens-rights-and-islamic-laws/
fuck all theese arab countries in their fucking asses
shit corrupt governments
all leaders are sons of sharmootaahz
What’s a “sharmootaahz”? Apparently some sort of gay militant slang…
Before we commence with the mass ethnic anal penetration, what say we get back to the topic of capital punishment.
Unlike most Canadians, I happen to be in favour of capital punishment in certain cases. Political charges, of course are not one of them. But if a fellow were, for instance, to kidnap, rape, torture, murder and dismember several children of either sex, and this could be proved beyond any doubt, then I see no reason to let this person abide in prison for decades. However, my hard earned tax dollars are currently being used to feed & house these demons in human form…
I think the problem with here is not one of capital punishment itself, but the range of crimes of the condemned, the questionable nature of the judicial process, and external factors of tribalism, poverty, vigilantism, etc. While it is certainly abhorrent in this instance, I wager that everyone in this group can bring to mind someone who has not or may never be brought to justice, who deserves no better than a bullet and a grave.
I don’t think that being Muslim, Christian, Jewish or any other faith predisposes one to being a monstrous brute, either. Some societies simply have the misfortune of having them in positions of power and influence.
I apologize for my blunt rudeness but I just got myself an almost common sense brainstorm or a notion if you wish. As I stood outside my house smoking god’s good plant I noted that the earth is round and it has gravity which holds us down on the round planets surface. Water covers 70% of the round object and compared to some planets we’re just a grain of sand. We never seem to get that basic question answered why the earth is round and why there is gravity. Why is there water on this planet and how can life live both at ground lever, in water and way above us. No religion mentions it really, why round, why not flat or a cube or even triangular. And why is zero gravity and space and why round objects float around other round objects just because they’re bigger. Why are suns there and why are there “holes” in space that suck everything into them. Why are there decease. Also, why are there different ethnics and languages, why are some ethnics more prone to certain illnesses. Some religions offer us the negative perspective off things as the bible tells us that we have different languages because we were bad. Since most religions have a notion of bad things can happen when you do certain things one wonders why all the silly ones. Could it be because in the days they were “made” people weren’t the brightest branches on the tree. How does the persons personality and behavior pattern reflect his/her religious perspective. Shouldn’t that matter somewhat? What type of personality was the guy that came down the mountain with the ten commandments. Was he a bit unstable that day, might he have added a couple of his own, wouldn’t god know and kick his ass. Since the gathering of information that led to the fact that the earth is round and does circle the sun like most other planets around us makes perfect sense regarding why there is nothing about it in any of the religions. Though if god was real he probably would have mentioned that somewhere.. since its´ kind of important information.. just brainstorming here, this might seem minute on the problem scale but I just felt like sharing this thought. I’m not requesting an answer unless anyone wants to give some thought.
Haukur, are you sure you’re smoking what you think you’re smoking?
Of course, I feel free to indulge myself in our creators creations as, by my standards of if he is real, would be his wish.
ROFL…. It’s gona take Muslims and the rest of the world thousands of years to catch up to the millions the Europeans killed.
On another note, it’s gona take the rest of the world some time to fix the blunders you the Europeans made in our countries. Just like Christian countries in Africa, Muslim and whatever countries in the other places have to deal with the crappy lines white men drew to make these countries. Putting eternal enemies in the same country just might cause issues. Last time an European country was allowed to take chunk of another, a mad man came to power and caused the largest war we ever seen. So please stfu. We will deal with it, get your armies and army bases out of these countries.
Last time I checked, vast majority of the “terrorists” only problem is having infidel armies in their country, in their holy land. If you Europeans wants to do something useful, then STOP empowering the governments that make death penalty legal, then the younger generation, the majority in these countries might have a chance in the future.
And to the original post, treason is treason. Comparing treason with honour killing is illogical and don’t make sense. Apples and oranges,
Not really, it means “whores,” and the correct plural for it is “sharameet.”
Haukur, I think you’re asking: Why are things the way they are, and why doesn’t religion give us a true picture of how things are?
Let’s say you think of God as the Creator, as the creative energy in the universe. Why did He do what He did? Why is there good and evil? Why do the innocent suffer? Why is there injustice?
The more I think about it, the more it seems that God had no choice but to do what He did. I think that His ultimate goal was to create a universe that is capable of meaning something. Therefore, if He wanted to create meaning, He had no choice but to create the possibility of meaninglessness. Meaning defines itself by its juxtaposition to the absense of meaning.
If you want to create good, you have to create the possibility of evil, so that one could give definition to the other. Charity is given definition by greed. Love by hate. All good things stand in opposition to bad things, so as to offer up a complete menu of all possibilities, so as to offer up the possibility of choice, and throught that choice, the chance for meaning.
And if you were God, you would depend on your creatures to make the right choices, so as to validate the efficacy of your creation. It’s not like you have your mother telling you how wonderful you are. You would create a creature, in your own image, and see if he opts for what is good, thereby providing evidence that your creation is indeed worthy.
As for religion, that is not God’s doing, but man’s. Religion is not God. God is God. Religion seeks to understand God. But God keeps himself a bit mysterious. If we truly understood Him, we would probably chew Him up, and spit Him out. That’s what we do. But in the mystery that surround Him, there is a gap of understanding, and that gap is filled in by religion, often with a lot of nonsense.
But God wanted to play it fair. He gave us the common sense to sort it all out, and He waits to see if we will make those choices which give credence to the notion that God’s creation is indeed good. I don’t know if this helps, but I thought I’d try.
Valid point! Yet, if there really is a creator, one would assume he could create anything he wanted in any form in any time and so forth. So a creator would not be forced to create anything in particular. When I draw a picture on a peace of paper I’m actually bound to the size of the paper but not what I draw on it. I’m also bound to who many colors I have and so forth, yet.. not to what I draw. God, the creator should be able to create anything he wanted since he’s not, so we know, bound to “size” nor matter. Since man kind doesn’t really know for sure what is out there nor where or if it ends somewhere, we really can’t say if the creator is bound by anything. But a creator able to create all this he would certainly not be bound to leaving evil out of the picture since it’s we who define good and evil. We really can’t say there wouldn’t be good without evil, we just couldn’t define good as good as a word. If we imagine Utopia as everyone being happy, feeling good, getting along, being at peace with one another we perhaps wouldn’t have the words to describe them nor the notion of what they were yet we’d still feel “good” and so forth.. or would we feel nothing at all.
I get that religion as in scriptures are crap written by man in early times and thus for we don’t have the explanations I’d like to have explained as I was hoping someone who believed in scriptures would have attempted. My hope here was to see, in a scientific way, if a scripture-believer would attempt to explain these things and how, cause it fascinates me to see how blind faith sometimes expands when questions appear and the people who really don’t know try so hard to save their house built on sand. I trust that the only friendly-weapon we “reasonable” people have is pointing things out in that sense and the more we do the less they know and there for, hopefully, the scripture theme will die out and people will set themselves free. As I’ve hopefully pointed out before I do like people believing, yet this organized religion crap with the scriptures and such has to die, at-least the parts in the scriptures that sound stupid, some have valid points. There’s on in the bible that pretty much summons it all up in a sentence which should be the bible itself, like a pocket version: Do to others what you want others to do to you! That’s pretty neat, says it all, it even beats my three little rules, one sentence, makes more sense than all debates yet it’s covered and wrapped with crap = the bible.
I’d like to wrap this up for now with: Jina, what are you talking about, Europe is not a country? The colonial-times has ended, or so I’m to. You’re referring to the world war 2 which actually shocked Europe so much that most countries in Europe revalued themselves. Norway, Sweden, Danmark, Iceland, Finland, Holland, Germany, Poland and so forth have not taken part in a war until the United States lied to them and dragged them into the Iraqi war, something that will go into the history books as the time Europe stopped trusting the US, hopefully this will never happen again as time will tell, we should be able to learn from our history, that is if we’re actually allowed to read history unedited.. Are you?
Haukur:
wit regards to your brainstorming, there have been a vast “scientific” (as you would claim) work about the nature of the ‘revelation’, trying to explain why God did not mention some very obvious facts such as roundness of earth and etc.
here, I would like to mention the last one of a series of controversial works of Prof. Soroosh (a well-known Iranian thinker) about Quran: Read here. in brief, he refers to ‘prophetic experience’ and states that “there was a Fact, a Reality with which Muhammad, or any other prophet, was encountered. that Fact, however, was not in the form of Words, but a Fact. Muhammad, with all of his mundane limitations, percieved a message from that Fact and transferred it.”
indeed there is a handful of works about Theoretical Foundations of Spiritual Experiences… which I think could help you understand the way a believe builds his belief on the Common Sense, not the sand.
Mohammad, one useful distinction is that science deals more with the “how,” and religion deals more with the “why.” Science is a description of the universe as it is. Religion offers a metaphysical explanation for why the universe turned out as it did. And then religion goes from the belief in the supernatural to expound on such things as the rituals, and the ethical behavior, which are derived from that initial belief. That view goes along with your idea that “revelation” is not a science lesson given by the Grand Puppeteer, but is rather a state of mind that becomes inspired to ascertain the nature of God, and His prescriptions for mankind.
Haukur, you seem to struggle with the notion that God may have been limited in some fashion, in His creation of the universe. Well, in a way, it is possible to imagine that even God himself could have been limited in some ways. We’ve already said that if He wanted to create certain good things, He would have had no choice but to offset them with certain bad things, so that each could give definition to the other. If he wanted to give creatures like ourselves the ability to choose from an infinite menu of possibilities, He would have had no choice but to create a universe in which all things exist, or at least, have the potential to exist. Therefore, He would have had a hard time creating a “perfect” world, because a perfect world, like the moon, has no potential for inspiring a deeper level of meaning, a meaning beyond what mere appearance may suggest. And the potential for meaning seems to be at the heart of God’s intent.
I agree with you that we believe in a lot of crap. And it’s not only limited to religion. For example, is it just possible, that the decision, some 200 years ago, to run our economies by burning fossil feuls, was a mistake, a wrong turn in our development as a species? Is is just possible that the development of nuclear weapons was a mistake, a wrong turn in our development as a species? And of course, any religious teachings which cause us to go at each other’s throats is clearly a gross violation of what is reasonable, and what is good.
So what’s the answer? You are right to point the The Golden Rule: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. That rule is a perfect formulation, mathematical in its purity, the kind of perfection that we would expect of God. We know that it is true because it makes perfect sense, because it is logical, and self-evident. When The Golden Rule was first perceived by a person, we know that a true revelation was had from God. If you don’t want to say God, say the energy that wrought The Big Bang, if that makes you more comfortable. Words are words.
There are other such perfect rules like The Golden Rule. There is The Golden Mean which teaches that truth is usually to be found somewhere in the middle between extremes. There is The Greatest Good which teaches us to maximize justice by doing what brings the greatest good to the greatest number. All these, and other such perfect rules, comprise aspects of Common Sense, the collective wisdom born of shared experience, the intuitive wisdom to conform out thoughts and actions to universally shared truths and values. And an ideological belief in what makes sense is the pathway to our salvation.
We will have to move from a belief in nonsense to a belief to common sense. We will have to navigate through trecherous waters to reach that goal. And there will be blood to pay. The ideological extremists, wherever they are to be found, are fiercely committed to their cause, and are emboldened by ideological conviction. We will have to become at least as committed as they are to defeat them. And our only hope will be to confront their fierce and unyielding determination with the unyielding truth of common sense.
I’d like to be the first human being on the planet who just says: I don’t know, I can speculate yet it has really no relevance, the fact remains.. I don’t know yet I go on with a rotten hollow soul
. It would be sweet to one day get the answer delivered to oneself saying: Well, this is it, here ya go, the answer to everything.. I’d probably pee myself with excitement yet I do not expect that day to come. So, instead of enslaving myself with fear of the afterlife or if there is a god controlling or creating everything around me the equation is so huge and so complex that I don’t even attempt it .. unless in small dozes. Sure one beats around the bush once in a while just to keep the brain active but I’d just like to go on worrying about what kind of a person I am and if/why people like me, why my cat likes me and so forth.. keeping it local more than global. To me there are more important issues at hand than if god is real or just a word. So.. yeah, there is no need to debate if god is real or not, simply I don’t care if he is or not, I care that “some” people believe that he exists and want it to effect my life instead of just concentrating on themselves. And I hope you’re right that in my time we’ve made such a progress that we’ve removed radicalism’ on all fronts away giving our “children” 
a better future.. But the fact that the human race has to bitch and moan and fight constantly for stupid shit pisses me off.. everything that takes time away from me being able to lay on my stomach and watch TV in a mindless drone way annoys me since I’m an X-generation child.
You’re describing the great quandary of the human condition: To watch TV, or to think, that is the question.
You see, that state of suspended animation is what creation is all about. He put is in this pickle just to see if anything good will come of it. And if you ask me, He still has a while to go before finding out.
Esra’a, thank you for providing that definition. I shall add it to my lexicon of “inappropriate things to say around the world”.
Eric, there are no better curse words, than Arabic curse words. They have perfected cursing to an art form. My father-in-law taught me a bunch, and I still relish each and every one.
I completely disagree with linking TV to not thinking. Watching documentaries makes you think. Playing computer games, all though computer games have always been thought just as entertainment many games, types of games, have the ability to force one to think.. example: Strategy games, the modern strategy games with high AI software. Even the old computer and the art of computing, sure it seems to be extremely pointless and dumb activity to sit at the same place for hours yet you can do so much with so little. Graphics, Animations, programming, creating DVD menus, Directing various Hardware wireless and so forth.. So let us not sit in the judges stool and cast verdict upon the very things that will advance our species, hopefully give we fix the shit that is going on, to the next level.
Haukur, I’ve never seen you so passionate about anything. You’ve almost become “religious” in your frenzy to defend the sanctity of TV. You see, it doesn’t take much to throw people off the deep end. Touch a raw nerve here and there and they’re more than ready to go on the wild side.
TV is my only friend
It never judges me, it even purrs when I touch it, it can show me images of naked women, cartoons and digital animation and the sound, wooff, it’s heavenly 
So yes, my god would be TV if all media wasn’t owned by a one man.. the friend of George Bush. But since my TV is only connected to my computer it’s safe. Than again TV is an awful whore with her seductive methods and lures you in and sucks the spirit from your soul.. But than again.. I can see naked ladies which is usually the means I use the internet and media all-together. This may have something to do with me not getting any.. Who knows really, the world is such a complex thing 
We should have executed Jonathan Pollard and Ben-Ami Kadish for sending nuclear secrets to Israel during the 80s.
Too bad the AIPAC lobby is too strong for them to do anything about it.
I’ve been pondering the concept while doing drugs which is the main sport in my country and perhaps one day I’ll attend the Olympics in Ganja smokin’, who knows. The concept is: Why is the Quran and the Bible worshiped by their followers since it’s just a book.. and some words. The bible, and this by preachers, is noticed as horribly flawed, inconsistent and against most scientific facts. The Quran states everything horribly vague so you could, if you changed a couple of words, mean anything. Why are fundamentalists so horribly insane and what makes a human being so insane, why aren’t I insane. I do drugs and all drugs have the label “Can cause you to go insane”, why am I not insane yet fundamentalists are? Also, when I’m discussing and arguing with a person about something and I throw science down there which usually has allot of people behind it with top technology researching it, they throw scriptures back at me.
“And fruit of every kind He made in pairs, two and two”
(13:3)
This is just not true, come on people, there are species out there that can change their gender and have sex with themselves.. I do like their spirit since I do that all the time but to them it’s a question of survival and reproduction. The sentence above, along with many many many others, is not just “WRONG” but also it is quite ignorant to see this in a 2000 year old or 1400 year old book and expect it to be correct.. most people weren’t really that smart in those days.
But annoys me the most is why am I so horribly attached to all this arguing. Why do I have to constantly defend my ideology which is constantly changing and advancing and has billions of work-hours and trillions of dollars behind it along with facts and theories and knowledge. Why do I have to bow down to people who believe in shit they don’t really know and have never seen.
..Damn it!
So.. what ever discussion has been had in here is now over?
Haukur, 37 comments is not exactly chump change.
..Sure, you’re right, there has been allot of achievements..
Palestine doesn’t need serious crime, gangs, terrorists, a large penal system filled with ‘bad’, un- desirable, unreliable persons…things are tough enuf for the ‘good’ people. Therefore, only jails
wud exist to hold defendants until tried before 3 judges [Chf Judge, 2 'Side Judges'] whose job is
[like old communist courts] to determine if a crime occurred and if the defendant is responsible or
not. No plea-barganing, no ‘adversarial-tricks’,duelling lawyers, etc…State Atty makes case, defen-
se proves no case…Minor misdemeanors result in strict-jailtime, corrective classes…Comission of
the ’15 Capitol Crimes’ [1. Treason/Espionage/Terrorism against State or Peace, 2. Murder/Any un-
lawful killing/conspiracy or solicitation, 3. Mayhem/Mutilation/Gross Torture, 4. Rape/Sexual battery
/Pornography/Prostitution/Slavery, 5. Arson/unlawful destruction/sabotage, 6. Kidnapping/Unlaw-
ful confinement/home invasion to kidnap/carjacking/ hijacking any air, land-motor, water craft,
7. Counterfeiting ANYTHING of value!, 8.Forgery/documentary-deception/Identity-theft, 9. Fraud/
theft by deception/pyramid-schemes [ponzi], 10. Armed robbery/strongarm robbery by threat/arm-
ed assault, 11. Criminal tresspassing, burgulary/home invasion to steal/ B&E/Grand theft of any-
thing, 12. Possession of, dealing in unlawful drugs, substances/Alcohol crimes/Tobacco Crimes, 13.
Firearms crimes/ unlawful possession of firearms/unlawful possession/use of dangerous edged-
weapons, 14. OWI/DWI [alcohol, drugs, medications]/death, unlawful injury, permanent-disability,
caused while OWI/DWI/Transporting open containers while OWI/DWI, 15. Third conviction of ANY
of the other 14!] If convicted–beyond doubt–buy the Tribunal, the defendant is escorted outdoors
and ‘processed’ by a special crew by means of a device described at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Fallbeil_muenchen_1854.jpg [which see] Foreigners who commit
these 15 crimes may either face Palestinian Tribunal or be extradicted to their home country for trial: Their expulsion is permanent–if they return and are arrested, they are ‘processed’ upon posi-
tive identification…Let criminals beware: “If you have nothing good to do, don’t do it here!” From
childhood, Palfolk shud be admonished to do good and thrive. The funds and facilities to lock up
badguys do not exist–and shudn’t!..Aaron Allen..
Thank you as this was a very informative article. If you haven’t all ready please read the article as it has allot of good pointers.
Death Penalty shouldnt be applied and must be stopped everywhere…. but, as I know the legal system in Palestine, not every one accused of collaborating with the zionist occupation is sentenced to death, only those who killed freedom fighters, or shared in killing them are sentenced to what they deserve. the killer should be killed specially if he collaborates with the enemy to kill his own brother.
However, it is not necessary to legalize death penalty in order to apply it. In the “enlightened” countries, there are the death squads that sabotage through out the world in the name of “democracy and human rights”. Can we give an example of the American death squads in South America? America has killed in a few years a million times more what the “honor” crimes did in Iraq… “honor killing is not justified in no way, but dont play the benevolent and cry for a killin g here and there and ignore the mass killing machinary of death of the States that kills in dzens here and there !!
A terrorist state (any terrorist state like israel) [http://samibedouin.wordpress.com/2009/09/20/death-penalty-a-state-of-assassins/] can allege that it doesn’t apply Death Penalty within its borders, and even that its “legal” system doesn’t have such a penalty, but on the ground they practice it openly and widely to annihilate the indigenous occupied people !!