Criticizing Israel makes you an anti-Semite. And a terrorist.
Is anyone else utterly sick of the constant claim that criticizing Israel turns you into a “hateful, Jew-bating monster”? I am just trying to explore why we have a flock of commenters making this claim on almost every single thread about Israel. If we disagree with a certain mentality or policy concerning Israel, does it mean we’re racist bigots who want Jews dead and who re-legitimize their fears (you know, that fear of the entire world conspiring against them and what not, which right now I find to be incredibly irrelevant.)
Sometimes criticisms of Israel are deplorable and based on anti-Semiticism. That is true. But that doesn’t mean that any non-Jew who is critical falls under that category, and it’s getting rather tedious to be dismissed as a raging anti-Semite every time we criticize something Israel does or condemn its actions.
Do people not read this blog enough to understand that Arab governments, the IRI, and Islam/Islamophobia are probably the most controversial and criticized topics here? And many of the Israel-related topics are by Americans, Israelis, or Jews themselves. How racist and anti-Semite of us to allow them to use this platform to express their opinions too. How intolerable this place must be.
I criticize Israel all the time, because some of its policies deserve vocal condemnation. At the same time I have also been quite vocal in supporting Arab Jews or Jews in primarily Muslim countries. We also have a network that highlights the Jewish cause in the Middle East. I don’t think a bunch of anti-Semites would be doing these things, and I don’t think that a network founded by non-Jews would include Jews in its staff and authors if they were anti-Semites.
It’s reached to the point now that we can’t ever express our views against Israel without having dozens of hate mail, threats, and insults clogging up our threads and inbox claiming that we’re all racists and anti-Jews and should all burn in the depths of Hell for oppressing Jews further. Well excuse us for not being the Zionist hotspot for all Zionist lovers, and excuse me for pointing out the obvious fact that currently Jews are hardly the most oppressed minority in the Middle East, but this place caters to no views. Whoever reads this site is bound to get criticized and hurt in one way or another, Jew or not.
I stand my by strong belief that there are many minorities in the Middle East who suffer more than the Jews, and stating that hardly means I’m a Jew-bater. It means I think it’s time to pay attention to the others who go through far worse.
There are many other minorities being violently oppressed and killed for their beliefs or ethnicity, yet no one does a thing about them. And I do believe that their case is a lot more graver because, unlike Jews, they do not have a state to be secured in nor do they have powerful leaders and powerful governments’ support. They are alone. Truly alone fighting for their causes as peacefully as possible with hardly any local and international support or even awareness. So no, I don’t think Jews are victims of the region’s worst crimes and I don’t think that their fears are legitimate and relevant today, for the same reason that I support a Jewish state: they are secure, at least in comparison to any other minority I witness here. And it’s something they’ve worked hard for and earned but it also doesn’t mean that because of that we get to dismiss Israeli crimes as attempts at self-defense when they are clearly violating the most basic human rights. Stating that also doesn’t make me a Jew-bater, because many Jews have been saying the exact same thing, which apparently makes them “Self-loathing.”
People have been trying to change how this place works, but they’re wasting their time.
We’re not here to make you look good, and we’re not here to help you win pity.
This place is meant to be controversial. That means you get to be criticized. That doesn’t make us racists and bigots. It makes us interested in what everyone has to say regardless of whether or not you agree.
Join the Conversation
Yes. The problem is, too often it’s just given as an automatic response which needs nothing to back it up and inevitably puts a stop to what could otherwise be constructive dialogue. As though criticizing a state automatically makes you a racist, and as though history gives Israel some sort of moral immunity to criticism.
I’m not denying that there are Jew-haters, but what I find irritating is this mentality of generalization. That is, if as an Arab I criticize Israel, it’s not about an individual criticizing the actions of a nation-state, but “inherent Arab Anti-Semitism”, which I think is a slight oxymoron.
Esra’a, I was reading the posts you linked here, it was painful reading them, really. I find this forum very inspiring and I hope people who read and contribute to the forum realise this place is not to deny any country in the Middle East, any minority, any religon…
Far from that 
Well, the youth have differnt opinion and it is good to kow, it is good that the website reflects different opinions. Some time back in another forum a Lebanese youth was so angry with me, because he supposed I should be a raging bull toward Israel and any thing from israel merely because i am an Iranain and that wasn’t the case. He was really angry and he did hurt me with his remarks, but later on I understood this guy has been raised abraod and he moved to Lebanon to see his home damaged and his brother killed in the summer war. Well, when I got to know about this I could understand his rage more. Some times an Israeli might feel very hurt when he/ she has lost a brother, ore has expereinced some thing very graphic recently, then he comes to the forum and posts some thing that usually not everyy body talked in that tone. Kurds as well, Turks as well. I would prefer not to categorize these remarks with those of people who have a very stable racist view whatsoever.
In my country, if some one even talks about Israel that is a hush hush matter. If one sympathizes with the nation of Israel at any rate he is a zionist who wants to dominate the world and enslave the rest of the nations. Unfortunately they repeat and repeat claims as such in a way that they naturalize talking aobut Israel, nation of Israel as such. I remember interpreting for a couple of NK rabbis who attended a convention in Iran to denounce the Denmark cartoons. Well they were Holocaust survivors, they have had relatives, grandparent , many many people of their villages gone forever in the Holocaust. I am not talking about their political views, but their being observant Jews who indeed had lost relatives in the Holocaust was a fact that they could not talk about freely, openly, without being censured. I can openly remember what the journalists would ask them and what they answered and what was exactly broadcasted from the tv channels. It was shameful how much their utterances were cut, sentences would be taken out of the context only to view their politi8cal stance, and that wouldn’t be exprlained thoroughly. In a school of humanities and religious studies they were invited by the clergy who mamanged the school. Well that man had a reasonalbe communication, but when I was in the university and as the Youth were looking curiously and asking me from where they had come and then they would ask me, do they know that Holocaust was a fiction?
I would look the youth in the face, they didn’t look like extremists, they looked modern, they looked too young, they were rather indifferent about subjects as such, but the norm of speaking in the society had given thim this sentence as a pop up from the default setting of the minds. It is a pitty when there is no room for Man to Man, or a Woman to Wom,an discussion about topics as crucial as this in a society.
Later on Ahmadinejad called for a cartoon exhibition. Well, it is not cool to poke fun around some one’s tragedy. It was a very cheap shot, which he tried to remedy by calling for a conference over the holocaust. In that conference they invited any one any group that they inquired would be anti- hoocaust, the same NK rabbis were invited too, but the conference holders were disappointed that they wouldn’t deny the Holocaust. Well the conference was help in the a research center for the forteign ministry and it was not reflected to the inquiring people what exactly happened there.
Any way, I am in favor of being criticided but having the right to speak. I would love that this forum wouldn’t change into one ethnical- religious group against the other. No it is not being an anti-semite if one is criticizing Israel, if essentially that person is not denying the right of those people to exist and go on with their lives, but subjects get confused some times….
Be well Esra’a, I never thought you are an anti-semite
Esra’a… I take it our exchange on the other thread inspired this.
The problem is that you crossed the very line you draw. You did exactly what you claim not to do – you criticized a Jewish contributor not for anything he wrote, but for YOUR views on Israel and his Jewish identity.
You and I exchanged NO WORDS about Israeli policy vis-a-vis Palestinians, or vis-a-vis the Arab world… the question I was addressing was Israeli views (not even government policy) on Iran’s nuclear program, and you met that with a whirlwind of attacks about how Israelis don’t deserve views, they’re too powerful to have a need for security, they’re too fortunate to be considered a minority, and a litany of reasons why we should NOT consider a Jewish perspective on the Iranian issue. At the end of the day, your comments amounted to an anti-Semitic screed on why Jews don’t deserve a seat at the table and why their views are illegitimate. This complete refusal to engage a Jewish perspective, and insistence on marginalizing it is disgusting.
You have yet to demonstrate the ability to identify with an Israeli perspective on this issue… and only shown your eagerness to belittle legitimate fears.
“Other minorities exist too” you argue – even though I agree one hundred percent. “Jews are not the ONLY ones with fears” – I never said they are. “You can’t defend Israeli war crimes and terrorism” – I never did. We didn’t have this discussion you imagined, you just foisted your projections and baggage onto me. I haven’t had such a bogus argument in years.
NO ONE SAID OTHER MINORITIES DON’T HAVE FEARS… of course they do. I readily endorsed this point and supported it… but you used this merely as an excuse to knock the Jews off the table. Their fears, according to your argument, don’t count and shouldn’t be listened to. You then proceeded to call me a violent nationalist for arguments you ascribed to me and I never made. Your behavior in that thread presents a picture-perfect representation on the modern face of anti-Semitism and on the ILLEGITIMATE anti-Semitic attacks (not the legitimate attacks on certain Israeli policies). You were too busy engaging in character assassination with your own bogeymen around the topic of Jews in the Middle East that you couldn’t even entertain a dialogue on any ideas of substance – only to talk past me and accuse me for things I never said.
This cheap misrepresentation you pose in this thread, while you feign innocence is laughable. Go back and re-read our exchange. See what it is that I wrote, and how you responded. You instantly ascribed to me collective guilt for alleged Iraeli crimes, and things we did not discuss. If that is not anti-Semitism, then you are the last person to be trusted to be a judge of that.
ps – if you had shown ANY interest in what I actually SAID (not all the crap I didn’t say that you put on me) then you might maintain some integrity. But your cherrypicking a quote in order to launch a tirade on Israel has NOTHING to do with what I wrote and EVERYTHING to do with anti-Semitism.
I encourage everyone else reading to go visit the original thread to see a demonstration of modern anti-Semitism at work http://www.mideastyouth.com/2008/06/06/israel-should-attack-iran/#comments
Dare not engage the Jew on his ideas or his perspective… no… instead attack his perspective as illegitimate, marginalize all things that inform his perspective (because the objective is never dialogue to begin with), and then pivot into a tirade against Israeli crimes (because that’s the low-hanging fruit that will win over the crowd).
Ben seems to think that the entire world revolves around him.
Ben doesn’t realize that it’s a well known fact that criticism of Israel is almost always considered a form of anti-Semiticism, hence this post.
Because Ben is weird.
Frankly, your comments are tedious, increasingly irrelevant, and incredibly self-centered. But either way, you did refer to my criticism as Jew-bating. So yes, you fall under the shallow people criticized in this very post too.
Grow up. This thread is not about you, go talk about yourself elsewhere, I am far from interested.
This Ben guy sure knows how to spam! He is everywhere today, and what manners!
Don’t criticize him Murad, or you’d be labeled a Jew hating racist.
Thankfully many Jews are not like him. The guy’s problem is probably just a personal one, he’s obviously very insecure about himself and his opinions if he is so rudely enforcing them, even in threads that have nothing to do with him. Is this the same Ben who cried himself dry in every thread in the past until he was finally moderated? Or was that Howie?
That was Howie, the guy who insisted that this site was a threat against his security because Omar once published a post about Israeli soldiers who later became vocal critics of Israel. He, like Ben, thought it was a result of our Jew-hating mission, even if it was a post in praise of brave Jews! And I call it brave because they have to put up with the likes of Howie and Ben all the time, and sometimes it can get pretty violent.
Ben’s comments are hardly uncommon for a site like this.
We get similar comments (but in the form of threats) via e-mail all the time requesting that we show a side friendlier to Israelis… “or else!” (or else we get hacked, and they did hack us last summer.)
My post was an attack against this kind of abusive bigotry that so often goes uncriticized.
wow you’re annoying. You didn’t engage me on anythin i wrote, and then went on to slander me for all these things i never wrote. This is probably how Jews are still cursed in Libya (whre they were all expelled). At least now I can see first hand how it goes down.
Ughhh
So because of Tasim (from Libya) agreeing with the post’s concept, you claim that it’s how Jews are cursed? Jews are cursed in Libya because some people like Tasnim are sick of people relating Israel-criticism with Jew-bashing? You’re so funny.
How exactly does that have to do with any of this thread?! Is anyone denying your history? Is anyone here saying Jews are untroubled? MEY was one of the first sites in the Middle East to ever stand up towards Jewish rights in the region, and one of the first primarily Muslim site to also involve a large number of Jewish authors, and Jewish commenters in the past have dominated the discussion. They werne’t censored. Their critisism of Islam/Muslims/Palestine/Arabs were all published widely.
But because you (one Jew!) get annoyed, you claim it’s anti-Semitisism and Jew bashing (and don’t tell me to read your comments, this is practically all you accuse me of).
Thank you for proving my point! People like you use their faith to dismiss any form of criticism, and I find that disgusting and immature.
Good we can keep fighting here, while there are other wars bning planned so that we can solve our differences with as many weapons as it requires. Perhaps that is the destiny of Middle East. Jew! Muslim! Monirty! Majority! The question is do we care for one another regardless of all these defining facotors? Any why shouldn’t we?
What’s happening is that people are justifying upcoming wars in the first place by noting (either intentionally or unintentionally through some sort of implication) that their security is worth other people’s lives.
And if people, not just the governments, want war for the sake of their ideology or whatever, what do you suggest we do? Some blogger here was equating this kind of thing with social darwinism or something, it makes you wonder if this state of hatred and violence is really our human nature.
Guerssing is not justifying. I cannot find a just war, a just war happens in a conceptual world not on the ground. Because even though a war might sound very just, but as it proceeds you find how unjust it becomes. What i imagine in my very small sized head is that a country that wages war is sure short of some thing. The other one which pretends to be defending is gaining support and if given the opportunity would not less be agressive. We fight with our egos not with our true causes. The ego is the fist thing which should come under control, and each person would need a very serous confrontation with his/her own ego.
I personally cannot stop a war from being waged.I cannot stop people from fighting. I cannot stop my government from not playing with the well being of its people, not hurting the minorities. Do I like the war? Now way. Was I happy when Iran and Iraq were fighting like crazy? No way. it is Useless. Who benefitted from this war? who else will benefit? Even the ones who think they will are mistaken big time.
I personally would not like to harm any one, I don’t wish for wars, I cannot stop them, I don’t see that integrating factor that brings all the nations together as a single force all against war. I pray, I guess that is more effective. I don’t want that we attack any country, or anyt country attack us. I would not ask my husband to join the army to defend the country as well, my dad did that and lost his life and that is more than enough, i have a lifetime ahead of me regretting him being Wasted. If there is a war, and the war comes to the tiny Island I live in, and then a soldier from any ehtnic or religious background comes to my door and tried to snach my kid I will show my caws. Otherwise, I will light my candles and pray. Incense too, I like the smell.
IS THIS THE SAME BEN THAT DENIED THE BENGALI GENOCIDE AND SHITTED ON THE 12 MILLION DEAD BENGALIS?
Jina, it’s not the same Ben. That Ben was from last year. He was “offended” when you criticized Israel, but then didn’t expect you to be offended when he denied an entire genocide and claimed that it was “no big deal.” He didn’t even see the irony in that!
And then people wonder why we go insane.
I was in a lecture at the VA hospital’s PTSD clinic for combat veterans in North Chicago. The lecturer stood over one vet and asked “Can I piss you off?”. The vet answered “Sure”. “Without touching you, and presenting no physical threat, I can piss you off with just the noise coming out of my mouth?” The vet answered, “Well maybe not, just by talking”. That’s the big difference I think. Everyone wants to maintain their image be it “10 feet tall and bulletproof”, or “Me and mine are in the right and no one has the right to question that”. Criticism is manifestation of a difference of opinion, not a threat, and opinions are like eyeballs or ears, everybody’s got a couple of each. To feel threatened by an opinion isn’t rational. The rational person sucks it up and thinks it over, tries to see the other view and decide if it’s valid or not. Discussion, disagreement and even argument doesn’t make anyone a racist, a bigot or a mad dog, but acting on their beliefs in a violent way can. Actually, I see more of a threat from Israel than from Iran (I say Iran because they are the ones talking the most “smack”). Israel is getting shot at all the time, but on any given day, I guarantee you that more muslims are killed by other muslims than Israelis are killed. Israel has 150+ atomic weapons, according to good ole Jimmmy Carter (an idiot if there ever was one) and Amedinajad (another idiot)has at least 2/3 of his countrymen thinking he’s an idiot too. From what I hear, Iranis want him and his crazy assed mullahs gone. Iran is no threat to anyone. They’re just a big frog in a little pond. What I see is a lot of people killing other people and the folks on this site disgusted by that and wanting it to stop. The discussions here are to show the other sides and to try to give others the info to think about it from the “other angle”. With all the people involved in conflict there is all too little rational discussion. That is a biggy that needs to change. This place is a start. A baby step. It must continue. Hopefully, we can all become a bit less thin skinned and cut some slack to those a bit more excitable for the sake of dialogue and discussion. There are “Firebrands” that write here and some very sweet souls, like elinor. I enjoy all of you. Please remember, this is an exchange of ideas, not an attack on anybody.
Just to chime in.
If we are to maintain our mission here, we should really try to discuss the ideas instead of the people. This place is supposed to be a place of dialog. Let’s try to remain responsible and credible.
Omid,
missed you really 
To give it a try,
Hi my dear:) I hope you are fine
I’m not sure what you mean by “Jews are still cursed in Libya.”
As for the expulsion of Libyan Jews, in a word, it was wrong, and this has now been recognized, at least insofar as there are plans to compensate those who have not confiscated Palestinian assets. So far, they’re talking about something like $100 million for the synagogues and cemeteries.
In any case, I don’t quite see the point of your connection between the expulsion of Libyan Jews and criticism of the state of Israel.
You repeatedly accuse others of ignoring what you actually said and referring to “things we did not discuss.” I would just like to remind you that we did not discuss the expulsion of Libyan Jews. The only time Libya appears before your comment is in the (Libya) following my name, and the only logical connection would prove Esra’a’s point: criticism of Israel is almost inevitably pre-empted by questioning the right to criticize Israel.
The circularity of that logic is a little illogical. To apply that paradigm to Libya, for example, would mean that Italy does not have the right to criticize Libya because a quarter of Libya’s population died under Italian occupation. I hope you see what I mean.
Does criticizing Israel make you a racist and a terrorist? No. However, I have seen that criticism of Israel is often substituted for actual constructive dialogue. Consider the post that inspired this one.
The author of the post discussed the potential for and the potential consequences of an Israeli-Iranian conflict. He included in his article several reasons he felt explained what he saw as the Israeli eagerness to go to war. It should be noted that, at no point in his article did he discuss: Kurds, Armenians, Sudan, Palestinians or any other group. That was not because these parties are not important. Nor was it because these parties do not have significant problems of their own. Rather, it was because these parties were not germane to the subject he was writing about.
I read his article. I found it interesting, but in the end, I disagreed with his analysis. I decided to engage in dialogue. I wrote a polite response explaining why I disagreed. “Dear Mr. Writer. Here is the background which will explain how an everyday, ordinary, moderate citizen, a citizen who will be helping to vote in the next government, can see Iran as a threat, and can see preemptive attacks as preferable to sitting and waiting.” I did bring up the Holocaust, but also explicitly stated that I was bringing it up because it directly influences how I and other Israelis see this situation. The author presented assertion A: Israelis are responding because of xyz. I presented my own assertion. In the end, I asked the author: why should I trust you more than my government? What basis do you have for your assertions? ”
In other words: please communicate. Tell me more. Give me your background. What information am I missing about this specific situation?
Responses I received:
1)
Relevant to the topic of discussion, but not constructive.
2)
Not relevant to the topic of discussion, and not constructive.
3)
Not really relevant. The author of the article asked a question: why? I answered it: because of X. I am not asking for pity—just stating a fact: this impacts how we see the world. Period.
4)
Obnoxiously stated, but relevant. I responded by citing my sources of news coverage (including hyperlinks where applicable) and providing some background on their various political leanings. I also asked for links to where the commenter was getting her news. Or in other words: please communicate. Let me see this specific situation through your viewpoint. I got no response.
5)
Sort of relevant, but not constructive. Note how he is parroting the original author (well, dragging the level down several notches) without actually addressing any of the points I raised. Furthermore, based on use of the word of the word “innocent” to describe Hezbollah, I suspect that his mind is not truly open to dialogue.
6)
Relevant and constructive! He responded to my point “Yes, he is serious, no one gives a shit, and this is why.” Do I agree with him? Not entirely, and I believe responsibility for the whole imposing fear bit is pretty much evenly shared. But at least it is a response. I opted not to discuss the part I felt to be propaganda and discussed the rest.
But all that, and I still have yet to hear a convincing reason why, in the next election, I should not vote for a candidate who tells me that he is going to take the reactors out. In fact, the opposite is true. I pretty much have people telling me that 1) they hate Israel and 2) we deserve to get blown up (along with the resident Palestinians, but I suppose that they are used to being the sacrificial lambs by now). You may hate me, and you may hate Israel, but I certainly do not, and have no particular reason to support my own destruction.
Listen folks, I was just asked if I would be interested in participating in a group of wounded Israelis and Palestinians working together for peace. I have to admit–my knee-jerk reaction is NO WAY! That it will be basically be a bunch of self-hating Israelis and Israel-hating Palestinians and that the “dialogue” will consist of blaming everything on Israel and whitewashing terrorist acts. (Yes, of course right-wingers have their own versions of that…but I do not join their stuff either).
Am I wrong? Is dialogue possible?
I think that Gila makes a valid point. She is saying that in most instances, people are talking at each other, instead of with each other. Communication, or perhaps the lack of it, is at the heart of the problem.
To get to Esra’a's point (I hope it’s OK to use two apostrophies), there is nothing wrong with criticizing Israel. Israelis do it all the time. American Jews do it as well. Israel is not perfect, and there are times when she goes astray, and there is nothing wrong with reminding her of that.
However, as Gila points out, there is a history here, and it is natural for Israelis to interpret what is being said about them in light of their historical legacy.
For Isralis, and for Jews as well, the Holocaust is not just a word. One third of all Jews were wiped out in an instant by a merciless killing machine. Therefore, when Ahmadinejad proposes to follow suit, it would be irrational and even suicidal for Israelis, like Gila, not to take his words seriously, as seriously as the fate suffered by their Jewish ancestors.
And in light of Jewish history, so much the more reason, as Gila suggests, why criticism of Israel and her policies, while necessary, should be presented intelligently, and should not descend into hateful speech. Constuctive criticism is legitimiate, and even necessary, as long as the historical legacy is taken into consideration, and as long as the speech being used does not give the impression that history is likely to repeat itself in the near future.
I am but isn’t it the same if anyone says anything critical of Muslims or the Arab world do Muslims or Arabs it is automatically thought that they are either racists or are islamphobes!/! it goes both ways. But to be honest I’m sick of it. I was watching “The View” today and one of the co-hosts, who is also a Jew, criticized Brittany spears for receiving help from Mel Gibson b/c of comments made when he was drunk. She blasted her and her family for doing that. Yet, I wonder if he had said that about another ethnic group or culture, would she still blast Brittany or praise her for trying to receive help? I know it’s not exactly a political example, nevertheless it is the perfect example which pissed me off.
Nergiz, I agree with you that “it goes both ways.” Just as Jews get hyper when they perceive an unjust attack, so too are Muslims, or other religious or ethnic groups entitled to feel the same when they perceive a similar unjust attack. People have to treat one another with dignity and respect, and criticism in any direction should be grounded in logic, and should take into account the sensitities and sensibilities of those being criticized.
In order to speak to one another intelligently, we need a common language. Esra’a decided to make English the common language of this website, in order to facilitate discourse and the exchange of ideas. Well, on the world stage, a similar decision should be made. But instead of simply choosing English, as the language of choice, we should choose an ideological framework which allows people to speak to one another with common sense and with a sense of personal dignity.
Most of what we believe, Nergiz, is nonsense. We believe it passionately, and we’re even willing to kill one another in the name of our deeply held beliefs, and in God’s name, no less. But that passion does not alter the fact that a lot of what is believe is still nonsense. In order to speak to one another intelligently, we must begin to believe in what makes sense, and to let go of what doesn’t.
If you know something to be true, then go ahead and believe in it. If you don’t know if something is true, then ask yourself: Is this thing worth believing in. If it is then believe in it. If if isn’t, then have the courage to let it go.
In our fractured world, common sense, the collective wisdom born of shared experience, is the common denominator. Common sense is the way that God speaks to us, and is the only way we should speak to one another.