A Trip to “Settler-Land” – July 4th 2008
I’ve learnt something new today.I’ve learnt that I’m not an Israeli citizen equal to other Israeli citizens, that there are people who have more rights than me…
You think I’m kidding?
Well, I’ll tell you about a trip I made today to see some settlements and outposts in the Occupied Territories organized by the Peace Now’s Settlement Watch Team and guided by Hagit Ofran, its Director.
For a detailed interview with Hagit Ofran click here
(Below this post you’ll find a number of links to web-sites and documents that can give you more information about the settlements and the Occupied Territories.)
The trip started at 11am in Jerusalem’s Liberty Bell Garden. We were a bus full of people of all ages, not all of us members of Peace Now.
We were bound to meet a second bus that came from Tel Aviv at a parking lot just before Hizme Checkpoint.
There we were also joined by a police car that should accompany us on our trip. One cannot make such a trip into a military zone without clearance from the police and the army. And in our case, we were potential “trouble makers”, so the police was supposed to keep us from “provocations towards settlers”, although Peace Now had made sure that the busses were in no way decorated by fliers and banners – and Hagit had told us to stay calm in all situations. We could see that the policeman wasn’t pleased at all by his duty – he seemed rather annoyed, concerned and unhappy about what he had to do.
In advance I must say that nothing of what happened on the trip really surprised me – I’d seen all of it before on TV and heard many witness accounts about the different things we saw and heard. But I had never experienced it live and by myself… – except for the one thing that I didn’t know until now: that as a non-violent non-settler I have far less rights than a violent resident of an illegal outpost – or any settler at all.
After a few negotiations with the policeman and the policewoman charged to accompany us – mainly to tell them which way exactly we were about to travel, we started out: the police car in front, the 2 busses following.
We were heading for the settlement of Beit El, passing by an (illegal) outpost called Meron which should be evacuated in 3 weeks. Hagit explained to us the long and complicated court case about this outpost, which the State of Israel must evacuate by decision of the High Court of Israel. It should have been evacuated at least a year ago (if not more) but each time the Ministry of Security came back to the court asking for a small delay of just 3 month for some reason, then another 2 month for another reason, 6 month here, and 4 month there… In short: last delay of evacuation is July 31st 2008.
We could see very clearly that the outpost was sitting there quietly and there was absolutely no sign of anyone preparing move, dismantle installation or the like. We all wondered how they would manage to move it all in the next 3 weeks.
Migron outpost – areal view
On the way, when nothing particular was to be explained, Hagit told us about the basic status of the Occupied Territory and its inhabitants.
The whole of the West Bank is Military Zone and under Military Law. The settlers though are treated according to laws valuable for the State of Israel – which is not the case for Palestinians. The same act committed by a settler or a Palestinian is treated and judged VERY differently – for instance throwing of stones – to which I’ll come back later.
We arrived at Beit El.
We didn’t intend to enter the settlement, which obviously would have led to violence, just stop in front of the usual yellow iron gate and hear Hagit telling us about the history of this settlement and its outposts.
Beit El – old picture
Arriving at the settlement we saw that we were expected and awaited by a “welcome committee” of youngsters (adolescent girls and boys) from the settlement. The “crème de la crème” of Jewish youth, as we immediately saw and heard when we left our busses. Before we got out of our busses, Hagit had to choose a safe and neutral place to speak to us, in accordance with the policeman who at that time was already seriously concerned and unhappy.
As soon as we came out of the bus, the wonderfully religious “welcome committee” greeted us immediately with insults, telling us that we should be sent back to Germany, that we were traitors, that we had forgotten our bulldozer (meaning clearly that they considered us as creatures of the same kind as terrorists), that they were the core of the Jewish People, the only ones who secured the existence of the State of Israel, and many other things that I don’t remember now. They also shouted and whistled as loud as they could as to make it difficult for us to hear what Hagit was saying over a loudspeaker. We didn’t approach them – but they approached us, menacingly.
At that time our unhappy policeman wasn’t alone any more. Out of nowhere 3 different kinds of police forces had appeared and where trying to stop the God-fearing youngsters to approach and beat us.
I only recognized one kind of uniform – the grey uniform of a special “Arab unit”. There were others in an entirely blue uniform, which indicates (for me) that they were normal policemen, but probably more trained for “action”. And the third type of policemen – at the beginning only ONE, later more, wasn’t in uniform and had a normal looking car, and took pictures of us. My guess is that he was from the Shabak (Internal Israeli Security Service). Don’t tell me that I’m probably “imagining” things. They’re known for such things and its normal (not only here in this country, by the way) to photograph and register demonstrators – although we weren’t “demonstrators” in any way…
After Hagit had finished her speech and after new discussions with our policeman, we went back into the busses, still under shouting and insults. We traveled off – now in a much bigger convoy – to see an “illegal outpost”.
The question of what is legal or rather what is less illegal than something else is very tricky concerning the Occupied Territories. Please don’t “get me” on that! I’m using here general Israeli “speech” – were we differentiate so to say into State authorized settlements, settlements like Ofra that are big and important now, but grew without any formal authorization. The State acknowledged them implicitly, but not formally. The State built roads, water supplies and all other needed infrastructure, but didn’t formally authorize the settlement. It couldn’t really do that, in fact, as Ofra for example is entirely built on privately owned Palestinians land. And “illegal” outposts are places where there isn’t really a settlement, where there are only a few houses (minimum one!) and which are attempts to create completely new settlements, especially after the government has agreed several times not to do that any more (but still does, in fact).
Ofra -old picture
Ofra – colored areal view: red = private Palestinian land 93.2 %; green = Jewish land 2.9.%; State land = 4 %
So now we were on the way to an illegal outpost where 12 or 13 families live. Now not only guided by our police car, but followed by another police car with more policemen, the Shabak car and 4 or 5 cars of settlers from Beit El who seemingly hadn’t insulted us enough.
We wanted to drive through the outpost to see how it looks like. For this illegal settlement of 12 or 13 families the State has built 2 roads – one to access it from one side and one exit it on the other side. A great privilege compared to the Palestinian village we visited just afterwards, where the main access road (a dirt road, by the way) that would link them from a distance of one kilometer to the main road is totally blocked and instead, they have to drive 24 km each way to reach the same spot.
But when we arrived at the access road to the outpost, two police cars blocked the road – obliging us to pass our way and not to approach the tiny settlement.
At this point I began to wonder seriously who is making “law” there. Who is allowed to do what?
Not only we were driving on a road reserved for Jews only and forbidden for Palestinians, but even as Jews and Israeli citizens we were not allowed to continue on a Jewish road — most probably because the police was afraid the settlers would throw stones on us (what they did later, anyway).
That means for me that these people are allowed to be violent, and in order to protect us, we mustn’t approach them… Frankly, in other circumstances I would have expected that people who throw stones at others would be arrested – especially if already so many policemen were around…
But no: WE were the ones who couldn’t go the way we wanted; WE seemed to be the troublemakers…
Unable to continue our program (which would have consisted in driving through a State tolerated settlement), we continued straight away to a meeting with two representatives of the nearby Arab village of Kariut (close to the huge and very well developed settlements of Eli and Shiloh).
We needed to stop our busses on road no 60 (famous for its variations of status – sometimes reserved for Jews only, right now – as I could see – open to Palestinian cars as well, but as Hagit explained, only Palestinian cars with special permit to drive on that road..). We had to negotiate with the police again to be allowed to cross the road and walk five minutes on the sun-exposed dirt road to the spot where the road was blocked by big mountains of earth and stones – the meeting spot with the two Palestinians from the village of Kariut.
The settlers also got out of their cars and intended to follow us. By now we were joined by soldiers as well! Everyone (except of us) seemed to be very unhappy that we insisted to meet the two Palestinians. We wanted to hear what they could tell us about their living conditions in midst of the settlements. We walked ahead, while the police allowed us to cross the road, and behind us, the settlers were stopped from following us by a rather heavy line of policemen and soldiers. One of the settlers had his little girl (a toddler) with him, without sun protection and without water supplies for her. To insult us seemed to be more important for him than to care for his little daughter – all in all they (and we) were out in the high noon sun, unprotected (except for what we had brought ourselves) for at least half an hour.
We finally met the two men from the village. To see them approach I had to climb onto the mountains of earth. They approached by car, and then got out of the car, climbed over the mountain to speak to us. While we were speaking with them we saw a Palestinian family come home from some shopping, climb over the mountain and walk off the one kilometer that was left to reach the village. On our questions, the men explained to us that the village of 2700 inhabitants had NO RUNNING WATER at all, and the only water source available to them was a single water pipe we could see reach out just behind the mountain blocking the road. One kilometer away from the village. They had to come to this point with tanks to get water to drink, cook and clean!! – There had been a natural source a little closer to the village before, but the settler constructions destroyed it. The Israeli Water Authority refuses to invest there and build normal water supplies for them; while the much bigger settlements of Eli and Shiloh which were close by had running water in every house (even the 12-13 families in the illegal outpost have regular water supplies).
They explained furthermore the hardship of driving 24 kilometers more than necessary in order to go to work (most of them work in Ramallah). 70 % of the village’s agricultural land was partly fenced off and used by the surrounding settlements, and they were not allowed to go there any more. Even the little spot of land around us – between the main road the road-block and the two surrounding hills were kept off-limits to the farmers owning the land.
Sometimes, we were told, settlers would come to their village at night, beat people up and vandalize property. We didn’t ask if they complained about this – because we already knew that this wouldn’t make any sense: they were under Military Law, and would have to complain to the Military Authorities…
Many families have already left the village to go to live in Ramallah or Nablus or abroad at all. This is obviously the aim of the treatment they receive from the State of Israel, its Military Forces and the settlers living there.
Time was running short, we were all hot and thirsty – so we departed and entered the busses again – to drive home to Jerusalem and Tel Aviv, where we had come from. Preceded by a police car, then the two busses, a military jeep, another police car, 2 Shabak cars and still some settler cars following us.
After about five minutes of driving we suddenly heard an impact on the bus. (At least) one of the settlers had preceded us, awaited our passing by and prepared to throw stones on our two busses. The two busses were touched by three impacts of stones and one of the stones had smashed a window, but thankfully at it’s edge, and the boarding metal prevented it from coming through the window and injuring the passengers of this bus.
View of one of the bus-windows; the stone has been stopped by the metal bar
We all stopped, examined the damage and discussed the incident. At least a dozen of us had clearly seen the terrorist and could identify him.
But now came the most amazing part of our journey…
I still can’t believe it, but this is what happened. Most of us were out of the busses, policemen and soldiers around us – and here they came and joined us again: the settlers who had followed us for about 2 hours already – and among them the terrorist who had thrown the stones!!! Quietly they stopped there cars beside our busses, got out and continued their insults, telling me, among other things that the army should shoot us all!!
The charming young man in the center of the picture suggested that the Army should shoot us all.
We asked the policemen to arrest the man. No reaction… “Yes, that will be done” was the reply I got when I inquired personally why they didn’t proceed to arrest the stone-thrower. “Don’t worry, we’ll do that later” I was told.
I admit that it’s hard for me now to continue my report of that trip.
We had to drive off, seeing that the man was NOT arrested!!
Even harder was to hear what Hagit told us afterwards. That if a Palestinian had thrown the stones he would be treated very differently. And she told us two events that were witnessed by close friends of hers. One was the attempted evacuation of a very tiny outpost inhabited by particularly violent God-fearing young men. When the police arrived at the outpost, they were greeted by stones. Theses stones can kill – anyone who has seen such incidents knows that (and I have experienced it myself). They aren’t very dangerous to soldiers with helmets, but for unarmed civilians and regular policemen in normal uniform, they can no doubt be fatal.
So 7 or 8 of these “God-fearing” men were arrested – for 24 hours before being judged, as it is the law in Israel. Then they were sentenced to stay away from the outpost for 7 days and to sign a declaration to never do that again.
When you know, like me, a Palestinians peace activist who was sentenced to 7 years in jail for throwing stones at helmet protected soldiers at age 17 or 18 – hearing something like this leaves you speechless…
Another story told to us by Hagit – just to keep the balance: A close friend of hers from Bn’ei Avraham has witnessed a settler in Hebron coming towards a Palestinian family the friend was talking to and shoot at them. After hearing the shots, the soldiers protecting the settlers of Hebron appeared. The man said that the son of the Palestinian family had thrown a stone at him and that he shot to defend himself. Hagit’s friend and other members of Bn’ei Abraham present there told that this was wrong, that no stones were thrown by anyone. Nevertheless, the soldiers who came only after the incident testified that the son had thrown stoned and thus he was arrested. Not for 24 hours before being presented to a judge – but for 3 days according to the Military Law applied to Palestinians. After three days – at that point Hagit was at the court to witness what happened – the boys arrest was extended for another eleven days. Besides that, the father was told to complain against the settler, but was arrested at his arrival at the military office. Reason: he might throw stones in the future. He too spent at least 2 weeks in a military jail in Hebron. I don’t know the end of that story; we arrived at Hizme at some point and had to speak of other things as well.
It was enough for me, anyway. I didn’t need to hear more – I had heard and seen enough for one day.
For the site of Peace Now (in English) click here
For the Settlements page of Peace Now click here
Breaking the Law in the West Bank – One Violation Leads to Another: Israeli Settlement Building on Private Palestinian Property – A Report of Peace Now’s Settlement Watch Team (in pdf) – click here
Join the Conversation
Salam Eva,
My first feeling after reading this very real testimony is that you and all of your friends must receive all our thanks for what your’re doing for peace! Every step you made count enormously and the settlers showed their fear cause they know that they live in a complete illegally way. Why the authorities “encourage” this settlements despite it make a great dammage to the Israel image in the whole world ? Do they think Israel is above the law ? And even they believe it, for how may time they could “resist” ?
You and your friends are the real core of the real Israel. We, Arabs for peace, are involved in the way of peace cause we believe in peace and cause you Exist !
We know that the victory is by our side, both of us.
As you know, the neighbour is a very important “thing” for an Arab. If he can’t trust his neighbour, the Arab is very unhappy… So, a good neighbour we can count on on the hard moment, a good neighbour with whom we can share our bread is the best thing in the world !
I hope that all the Israelis understand that there is no way for a happy life for an unjust neighbour.
Here in Algeria our “unjust inside neighbour” live for 132 years on the land (third power in the world in that time, with many allied: NATO, Israel, etc., with the Atomic bomb,.. etc.) and finaly : they quit as they come … Cause they don’t want to live here with us, they want to live here without us.
In 1999, on an Interview to the Middle East Review, an american magazine, President Bouteflika said : “I also said to Sirs Barak, Levy and Peres at Rabat, that Algeria would have been with the Israelis if they were in the same situation as Palestinian.” (http://www.algeria-us.org/releases/boutef_midleast.html).
We, as Arabs, want to give Israel a hand of peace but if Israel refuse this, what really we can do for Israel ? Times is changing and this politic of settlements, collective punishments, etc. is really a bad thing for Israel.
We are wondering about what really Israel want ?
Did the state of Israel really want Peace ?
Shalom, Salam !
PS/I’ll put this comment on Mepeace too.
Hi Eva,
Your story made me feel so sad.
I guess when we Israeli Jews really go deep inside of ourselves and learn how to make peace with other Jews, we’ll stand an easy chance of achieving peace with the Christians and Muslims in the region. We all have to start being much more sensitive and less antagonistic with those who don’t share our politics, religious beliefs and opinions. I think its a matter of learning respect and self control. No wonder some nations don’t respect us. Look at how we treat our own family sometimes! All of these Jews you wrote about seem to be missing the point of their Judaism! Love thy neighbor as thyself — no matter what his politics or address.
peace sister and have a great week,
Michelle
again, I’m thinking of a network associating Jewish community with non-jewish ones. many Iranian would re-evaluate their position on Israelis if they come to read such stories.
Thank you all!
I know exactly what you all mean. I myself doubt that my government really wants peace. Just as the French in Algeria, these settlers (and the government who supports them) want to live there WITHOUT the Palestinians. That this won’t happen more and more Israelis understand – not enough yet, but I think that nevertheless, awareness is growing. There are about 200 movements, groups and organisations working for peace, reconciliation and JUSTICE. The local media doesn’t speak much about us – that’s why many Israelis don’t even know about most of these groups. Naturally the government does not support us either – but we do what we can, whatever it needs, to keep the work going. To shout as loud as we can to be heard. I unfortunately have the impression that still now, even if most Israelis are convinced that they want peace, they are still not aware that the most basic thing to do is to end the occupation and to restore justice. What’s going on in the Occupied Territories realy defies imagination. Yet, there are groups like “Breaking the Silence” that get their message into the minds of Israelis – slowly by slowly. These are voices of soldiers who served in the Occupied Territories, and while most of them were caught in the internal logic of the Occupation, later they realized what enormities they had done and began to speak out and tell people what REALLY happens in the OPT. And even if the media, the government and whoever also tries to silence them, their voices are heard nevertheless, just because they were soldiers.. and for Israelis, as the Military Service is compulsory, the Army is “like our sons and daughters” – and when these sons and daughters speak up, it slowly gets to the minds and hearts of the people who otherwise try to shut off the conflict from their lives. As the “war” isn’t inside Israel but in the OPT and Gaza, places where most Israelis never go to, and as the army and the government don’t tell them what they really do, it’s somehow easy “not to know” or to believe that people like me are “liars”, “sold to the ennemy” and the like. But as such testimonies repeat themselves and more and more people tell such stories, also the minds of Israelis slowly change. Much too slowly, for my taste, but that’s what we have, and that’s what we must deal with. It often needs a lot of strenght to continue this “fight” for truth and reality, sometimes we all despair, but we all know that we need to contiue to tell to the world and to the people of Israel that this must stop. Maybe, hopefully the government will finally hear us as well!
By the way: Mohammad – there is a quite new network for Israeli-Palestinian dialogue called mepeace.org.
Israeli-Palestinain dialogue is necessary and probably the most important thing. I think, However, that Israeli peace-lovers have to establish some new netwroks to communicate their messages to other communities as well, for example to Iranians. you know, there are some hands fuelling the current tension from without, and informing the misinformed people may contribute to the process of normalization. an average Iraninan thinks that Israel is a solid, all-bad community, and you may break this mold. well done.
Damn amazing story! left me speechless too!
Israilis and Palestinians have not clear recognitions of each other, not only people but also their politicians! Maybe that’s an subconscious fear in them to “Protect every inch of your land and every Jewish is an evil!”.
Anyway Its something unpleasant and I think some should make both side aware of the other. No one in this world is evil. Education and education is necessary I believe. Educating how the opposite side is. they should learn each other. Dialouge also!
Mohammad,
I think and believe as you mentioned re-evaluating Iranian mind that would be a great idea to establish an arabic website to preach what Israilis are and one Jewish to explain what Palistinian are. And also one for Iranian to re-evaluate their mind on Israil.
Nice try at the propaganda, Eva darling, but no dice. Your motives are clear from the get-go:
“I’ve learnt something new today.I’ve learnt that I’m not an Israeli citizen equal to other Israeli citizens, that there are people who have more rights than me…”
Right away we see that you are yet another person desperate to maker herself out to be a victim. Please. This entire post is a bunch of ego and posturing specifically to make you and your organization look good. But let’s not pretend that this is about justice, peace, or anything other than your own self-serving agenda.
Scratch beneath the surface and it becomes immediately obvious that you hold the same attitudes as those you decry. Many Jews in the West Bank see themselves as heroes with a special task upon their shoulders, fighting an uphill battle with little more than gumption and righteousness on their side. They are legends in their own minds. The same goes with you. This entire piece paints you as the poor, downtrodden hero, thwarted by evil and injustice in your attempts to bring light to darkness. Come on. WTF? You want us to believe that “the settlers” are a monolithic group of people running on the same program, that there is no diversity whatsoever amongst them, and that there is really very little humanity in this entire group of people to talk about. That’s called BIGOTRY.
What if a Jew told a story about trying to drive in the West Bank and nearly getting lynched, specifically to paint the entire Palestinian community in a negative and unredemptive light? Would that be bigotry? Oh, but when you do it, it’s justice and peace. Can we stop the corruption please?
Let’s review the players in your scenario:
– Evil settler, occupier, thieving Jews who are violent and insulting, deny water to Palestinians and sunscreen to infants, and have, according to this piece, no legitimacy or humanity to be exposed, mentioned, or discussed by you — the ONLY THING RELEVANT ABOUT THE SETTLERS IS THAT THEY ARE EVIL AND OPPRESSIVE. They ARE “the other” to be confronted rather than engaged, period.
– Poor, downtrodden, abused Palestinians who, according to this piece, are purely victims without any hand in cultivating animosity between Jews and themselves, nor do they have any responsibility for any of the facts on the ground, and are merely passive players in this conflict from whom one could never imagine any wrong-doing.
And of course, need saving by you.
– Eva, the Good; the Defender of Justice; the Righteous Confronter, Climber of Mountains of Earth; Exposer of the Unspeakable; Survivor of a rock thrown at her bus; Absorber of Insults. Eva the Victim. Eva … the hero. Eva the savior.
I love how you end this rant with links to your politically oriented group, which we all know has no interest in fundraising (wink wink) so we can feel confident that this is an objective account, and that you would never, ever pick and choose only that which highlights your agenda.
Could you imgaine the following account? Picture it …
“Here we were, a group of Christians who spent our own hard earned money to charter a bus and go to the West Bank in order to meet some of the Jews we know about who live there and who would like to live in peace with their Palestinian neighbors because they just want to be allowed to live in their ancestral homeland regardless of who is in control of it, but we couldn’t get there because we were confronted by evil, violent Arabs who had headscarves on themselves but not on their children (!) and who were supported by a critical mass of hate and oppression! Oh, it was so … unspeakable! I am not sure if I will ever recover, but, nevertheless, I am here to tell you all about it because you absolutely must know. Please pat me on the back now.” Signed, me, the heroic one from the World Evangelical Zionist Association.
Right. That’s what I thought.
Listen, I can, and do appreciate your attempt to expose human rights abuse, but the LAST thing anyone needs is another propagandist piece posted by a political organization that makes money from painting one side as singularly evil and hateful, another side as singularly downtrodden and innocent, and itself as singularly heroic; when we all know that the situation is far more nuanced and complex than that. It’s bullshit and certainly isn’t ever going to foster change.
Boxing entire groups of people into rigid categories of good and evil (so that we really don’t have to think about engaging anyone, just forcing our opinions on them) just like what you are doing here, is perpetuating the root cause of the problem. It’s not justice. It’s not peace. It’s lipstick on a pig. Do you see that, or don’t you?
EcoGirl, contain yourself. This kind of “self-serving” bullying won’t get you anywhere.
Are you referring to this website as political? If so, on what grounds do you state such a baseless claim? No wonder why your argument is so detached from reality. You have said nothing about the situation in question and resorted to disrespecting Palestinians simply because Eva, who is in fact Jewish and living in Israel, criticized the actions of other Israelis and compared it to who Palestinians would be dealt with if they were the ones committing the assault.
Frankly, Eva has contributed more to peace than you ever will with this attitude. Read more of her posts to see what she’s really like. She is critical of both Palestinians and Israelis, whenever they are mistaken, and this is called objective criticism. Not propaganda.
It is.
It is.
Peace and justice comes when you rid yourself of this blind nationalistic mentality and adopt a perspective that equally values every life around you, as opposed to just yours and your ilk. But maybe they teach you different things in school.
I don’t think peace is a “deal” that will come about with a road map and partitions here in the holy land. I believe that whomever is living here of any race, religion and origin is here ONLY by the grace of God. Everything that happens in this world is God’s will— so if He has put us here to live all together, who are we to think we know better?
The problem is that each one of us becomes so paralyzed by fear and insecurity that we are unable to respond and react in a healthy and balanced way. Terror– be it from a soldier in uniform or a suicide bomber is traumatic and it’s psychological reprucussions are seemingly endless.
The only thing that gives me a little hope are the peaceful meetings I attend such as the annual “Sulha” gathering, Jerusalem Peacemakers gatherings, Wasatia and Trust -emun events, et al, which bring together people all of types and colors and religions for meaningful dialogue. At such meanings one just falls in love with everyone else for caring so much, for daring to step out of the stereotypes and feel– even just for one enchanted evening– like real family.
While sadly enough we children of Israel still feel the need for an army, we should have an “army” of citizens 1000 times greater for making peace!!! We should play music together, invite one another to our celebrations, send flowers, gifts, care that everyone’s needs are being met.
The governments and fancy NGO’s had many chances but it’s not working. Let’s try thinking in a whole new way. All you need is love.
EcoGirl,
I don’t understand what you want with that post.
First of all I’m NOT a member of Peace Now, never have been and not sure that I ever will be.
All I can guess is that you’re a WB settler furious that I wrote about what I saw. The kind of language you use suits that image you give of yourself perfectly.
I learnt that those violent hooligans are above the law. I never said that these are the only settlers in the WB – but these are the ones that right now are “making the law”, with the governments agreement of course. Otherwise why would the police and the army be afraid of them?
Besides that I can hardly be called a “victim” as a Jewish Israeli, I (like you) have more rights than Arab Israelis and far more rights than Palestinians, who hardly have any rights at all.
How come that you see me as victim?
I wasn’t even in the bus that I photographed. And if I quoted especially what was adressed to me is because a) it was enough to give an example and b) it was not something overheard from far.
Besides that I have not much to say. Your words speak for you.
LOL @ Ecogirl. Someone is rather defensive. I’m not quite sure why it was necessary to write a very long tirade about how the settlers’ aren’t a monolithic group. Duh. The entire article was written about the author’s experiences with a few groups of settlers. I’m not sure how you conflated “a few” groups with “all”. Secondly, there was nothing in the article that indicated the author felt like she was a victim. Again, more reading comprehension problems. If anything, the blatant double standards (or should I say quadruple standards) for settlers, regular Israeli jews, Israeli arabs, and Palestinians rely defies logic. It must be rather difficult to keep track of who gets what law.
Anyways, I’ve read enough about various settlers/settler movements and have very little respect for them. They seem to feel that they are some special people entitled to special priviledges, as exemplified not just by this article but others that I have read.
To any Israelis out there, I’d love to know why settlers feel the need to start new homes and what not in areas that clearly do not belong to them and where it is illegal to build as stated by their own government. They have basically all of Israel. Why do they need or want to live in these areas?
“Are you referring to this website as political?”
No dear. I am talking about Eva’s group, Peace Now. She wrote a post that highlights a problem she is tackling, makes herself look heroic, and then links to her politicized organization at the end of it. That smacks of propaganda.
I have a few questions for you …
Can you show me where, in this post, someone without any understanding of this conflict would walk away with a realization that there is humanity in the settlers and that there are many good people amongst them willing to live peacefully with Arabs under the right political climate?
Can you show me where the bad behavior of a few has not been generalized to an entire population?
Can you show me from this post where we are to understand that there is diversity in opinion and outlook found amongst West Bank Jews?
Can you tell me why it’s okay to represent West Bank Jews in such an overtly politicized and unredemptive manner and not anyone else?
As you said, peace and justice demand equality. So unless West Bank Jews get equal treatment too — in this case by having their bad behaviors dealt with in a manner that does not generalize them as being characteristic of their overall population, and by creating a monolithic sense of evil amongst them — then don’t bullshit me that anything other than hypocritical propaganda is going on in this post.
There are real and legitimate problems that must be addressed. I don’t disagree with that. But the problem is not that West Bank Jews are (supposedly) just a group of evil, abusive, violent thieves. Come on.
Let me ask you something, Esra’a because you seem fair-minded, and open-minded. I noticed that you are a staunch advocate to alleviate suffering in Darfur, right? Do you think it is okay to make the Arab tribes seem like a monolithic group of monsters in order to call attention to the real and legitimate suffering of the non-Arab people of Darfur? If not, then why is it okay to do that with WB Jews? Peace and justice mean trying to change situations by understanding the humanity of the people involved within conflict, not by creating negative, bigoted public relations campaigns, which is exactly what Eva has done. That’s all I am saying.
“All I can guess is that you’re a WB settler furious that I wrote about what I saw. The kind of language you use suits that image you give of yourself perfectly.”
Here you go with another inappropriate assumption that shows what kind of mind you have. This is exactly the type of bigotry I am talking about. West Bank settlers are represented as angry, violent, inappropriate people to you. I could never possibly be a good, loving person with a different outlook and a sense of contempt toward how you pigeon hole entire groups of people to suit your agenda, could I? No. I must be a nefarious West Bank Jew.
You just proved that you take negative characteristics and use them to generalize to an entire population. That’s how you operate, Eva, not me. I’m actually not a WB Jew, nor am I right wing, nor do I fit into whatever box you wish to ascribe to me. I happen to believe that changing the situation on the ground takes a rejection of looking at any group and making them out to be evil, singular perpetrators of injustice so that we no longer have to really think about the situation.
I happen to have every bit as much of a motive and desire to change the situation where Palestinians do not suffer, but I disagree with how you represent entire groups with cheap sound bytes that make them seem like nothing other than bad people. I don’t like when people do it to Palestinians and I don’t like when people do it to Jews.
“She wrote a post that highlights a problem she is tackling, makes herself look heroic, and then links to her politicized organization at the end of it. That smacks of propaganda.”
More reading comprehension problems. She stated quite clearly that she was not a member of that organization, nor did she have any plans to become one
Quite frankly, I have no idea what your problem with this article is Ecogirl. Are people now no longer allowed to right about THEIR EXPERIENCES (whether good or bad) with various groups of people because we don’t want to offend anyone? That is the biggest load of BS I’ve ever heard. Where exactly were the generalizations here. The entire article was a narrative about what happened on HER trip. If her account had been a glowing endorsement of the settlers she met and negative about the Palestinians I highly doubt you’d have a problem with her “propaganda”
Secondly, where is she trying to make herself out to be a hero. All she is doing is chronically various aspects of Israeli life that SHE HERSELF EXPERIENCED. Its not really her fault that it happens to be an extremely negative experience. And I was unaware that writing about what happened to yourself was suddenly generalizing. If you have a problem with that right your own post.
Thirdly, you have a problem with how the settlers are being portrayed here? Too bad. I don’t think that the purpose of this website is to function as one giant public relations machine for the settlers who happen to be living illegally on land that does not belong to them. If you want them to be seen in a more positive light than right your own article on them and feel free to explain why they think they have a right to encroach on land of which the majority does not even belong to them.
Lastly, why should Eva write a positive article about the settlers she encountered on this trip? There clearly were no positive experiences so launching into a spiel about how wonderful they were to her would just be one giant lie. I’m sorry you think lying is appropriate to further the image of the people you support
“When you know, like me, a Palestinians peace activist who was sentenced to 7 years in jail for throwing stones at helmet protected soldiers at age 17 or 18…”
Do you even realize how ridiculous these words sound as you are typing them. What kind of “peace activist” throws stones at people? People like you are harmful to the state of Israel. Go move to somewhere else, like a Muslim country if you think that Muslims love you so much.
Bored,
I don’t know how old you are, but have you ever considered that people can change their minds all along their lives? This man is 40 now – and in 2005 he founded, together with other Palestinan ex-fighters and Israeli ex-soldiers a group called “Combatants for Peace“. If you want, read what they write about their experience and how they ALL came to change their minds.
I hope that when you’ll grow up you’ll make the same experience – that the world and your whole view of life looks very different between your teenage years and your 30s and 40s.
to much high words, what did you expect..? that they will make you dinner.
be realistic.. you came with peace now- knowns as group of pepole how wants to throw them from thire home. come on dont play the good person.
if i will come to your home, village, city: every week saying things like hagit told you, you will be less polite!!
they are the best pepole fighting for us- in any way…?
with the most values pepole can have.
expet it or not its your broblem sorry, and for all popole outside israel such us iran- let’s see you fighting with “ahminigad” first…then pass criticism!
Very good story. Thank you.
I say we support the Iranian leader and go for the nuclear “solution”.
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Eva. Were you raised jewish?