The Gay Imam
After Iman’s post about Parvez Sharma’s new film Jihad for Love…I started thinking about Muslim attitudes towards homosexuality…obviously it is a taboo subject and certainly not something that is accepted by society. In Islam it is generally regarded as completely forbidden- as is the case amongst most religions however one can not but help notice a certain degree of homo eroticism amongst young Arab men. Though I would almost certainly attribute this to simple sexual frustration..
What is interesting is that slowly but surely movements are being made to destroy the taboo and some have even ventured as far as saying that homosexuality is not is direct contravention with Islam. Two international organisations al-Fatiha and Imaan have set up sites linking to all kinds of support for homosexual Muslims…what they fail to do however is explain how exactly they have reconciled Islam with something that, at least appears to me as being totally forbidden!
From what I have managed to gather they have explained it as natural, either regarding the Quranic verses which condemn homosexuality as obsolete in the context of modern society, or pointing out that the Quran speaks out against homosexual lust, and is silent on homosexual love.
We see this phenomenon as not being something solely based in Europe and America but also quite a movement in the Middle East itself, with websites such as Gay Middle East appearing recently. This focuses mainly on bringing up homosexuality in the media and news but also promotes awareness raising events. For those interested al Bab catalogues the full range of media on this issue. I suppose what surprised me most was that this kind of topic is extensively discussed and documented.
Parvez Sharma’s documentary Jihad for Love should be interesting, even if one does not agree with the views posited for he aims to show how real-life characters aren’t willing to abandon a faith they cherish and that sustains them. Instead, they struggle to reconcile their ardent belief with the innate reality of their being. The international chorus of gay and lesbian Muslims brought together by A Jihad for Love doesn’t seek to vilify or reject Islam, but rather negotiate a new relationship to it. In doing so, the film’s characters attempt to point the way for all Muslims to move beyond the hostile, war-torn present, toward a more hopeful future.
A Jihad for Love’s characters each have vastly different personal takes on Islam, some observing a rigorously orthodox regimen, others leading highly secular lifestyles while remaining spiritually devout. As the camera attentively captures their stories, the film’s gay and lesbian characters emerge in all their human complexity, giving the viewer an honest rendering of their lives while complicating assumptions about a monolithic Muslim community. Crucially, this film speaks with a Muslim voice, unlike other documentaries about sexual politics in Islam made by Western directors.
Join the Conversation
As an outsider I think, one of the main problems Islamic religions are facing is the absoluteness of the Quran. Everything which is in contradiction with it has no chance – like homosexuality.
I see the example of Christianity – which I personally dislike – with all its sects, some of which have made big steps of development. For instance, some Protestant churches are going to have gay Bishops in near future, as it seems. That is only possible because they don’t take the words of the New Testament too serious.
Well, I think most religious people don’t like the idea of taking their holy books not too serious – but is development towards a modern religion possible without this?
So the film dares not to show a character who rejects islam outright, because he feels that islam and homosexuality cannot be reconciled?Now there is a bigger taboo. Btw, anyone here see the saturday night live segment showing Ahmadinajad as gay?
To: Simon Columbus
Absoluteness of Quran is not a problem for Muslim, we always believe Quran is our guide and our way of life. Thats the way we are. But in Christian perhaps some of their follower had a special right to define his own way even it was against Bible.
Homosexuality is not about being a modern or liberal person, its about God rules. He created every creature in pair.
“Homosexuality is not about being a modern or liberal person, its about God rules. He created every creature in pair.”
God created nothing, afaik. But that’s another question… if you say God created every creature in pairs – well, God created homosexuals, too. You can’t really deny this fact, can you?
And if the Quran states something about homosexuals – shouldn’t that be more important than the facts (that God created whatever)?
What, if reality, God’s creation, and the Quran, his words, don’t fit to each other?
“if you say God created every creature in pairs – well, God created homosexuals, too. You can’t really deny this fact, can you?”
I have known religious individuals who claim the devil created homosexuals…the theory behind that is that the devil tries to mock and pervert the intentions of the divine. Thus divine creation would fit divine word.
On the other hand, I have met people who claim that the state of being homosexual is not a sin – only acts of homosexuality are. This, of course, means that straight individuals who engage in homosexual sex (oftentimes in jail) are more sinful than celibate gays in this regard. What are the specific verses regarding gays in the Quran (and the Bible for that matter)?
“What, if reality, God’s creation, and the Quran, his words, don’t fit to each other?”
How do you know it doesn’t? You only know what you percieve to be real with your five senses and your brain. All of these features are deemed imperfect in all three abrahamic religions (humans are by nature viewed as flawed). Thus, from the perspective of a devout Jew/Christian/Muslim, there is no way for you to be sure what is actually divine creation and what isn’t? How does the imperfect comprehend the perfect? Also, if humans are imperfect than the languages they use are imperfect. What is written down cannot fully encompass what any prophet might have actually witnessed by being in divine presence. It is merely an inefficient conduit for divine messages. How do we really know what is expected of us by the lord? Our perception can distort divine presence while scripture can distort divine meaning.
Food for thought. I think I went off topic. Sorry.
imams like 2 both give and get??!!
You can’t change the religion of Islam. It expressly forbids homosexuality. If you don’t agree with it then you should not live by the tenets of Islam as simple as that. You should go to a society where homosexuality is acceptable.
Hassan,
No one can change what the messengers reveal. I agree, but people often make their own way. This is unstoppable–whether for good or bad–that’s between them and God.
> Hasan Wrote:
>You can’t change the religion of Islam. It expressly forbids homosexuality.
So does Christianity, if you get literal. But Christians can – to some extent – be Christian and let others be what they are.
>If you don’t agree [...] You should go to a society where homosexuality is >acceptable.
Sounds a lot like “If them Ayrabs and Mooslems won’t live by “our” Western standards, they should go back to where they came from”
No, outcasting others won’t do..
Halalhippie
>Sounds a lot like “If them Ayrabs and Mooslems won’t live by “our” Western standards, they should go back to where they came from”
Difference is the West preaches freedom because of which they must let Arabs and Muslims live as they wish to. If you live in an Islamic country however you must live by its laws. If you do not want to live by its laws its in your best interest to live in some other land.
You can call yourself a Muslim if you’re gay. I have no authority to call you a non Muslim. I have no problem with that so long as you don’t make it my onus as a Muslim to report you because you expressly engage in homosexual activities. It is very clear that Islam forbids homosexuality.
Hello Everyone,
I’m a Canadian and not a Muslim but as a Baha’i I face a similar issue in that the Baha’i Faith explicitly forbids acts of homosexual sexuality. I did not grow up Baha’i but rather in a family of values and principles not defined by a faith so much as our own culture and values, but began studying the world religions as a teenager and continue on to this day but I have recently become a Baha’i. As a student of world religions I learned from all of them leading to personal spiritual growth and even though I felt a strong pull to Islam I could not, in good conscience, convert to any one faith [until I was introduced to the Baha'i Faith]. But having followed up path free from such explicit commands as homosexuality is forbidden, I have a very tolerant view on homosexuality which is a very common part of life here on the west coast of Canada. When I became a Baha’i this was one of the things I struggled the most with and here is how I coped from my liberal western upbringing…
As someone mentioned earlier, what is forbidden is homosexual sexual acts. I’m assuming they have it right from the Muslim point of view, and that is how it is in the Baha’i Faith [the top was inquired about and so there is a lot explained and thus no wiggle room in the "rule if one were to look for it] and, if I remember correctly, where it states this in the Christian Bible, in the Old Testament, it says “Thou shalt not lie with a man as if he be a women” – or something to that effect. Love is ok, but sexuality is reserved for the institution of marriage because it’s purpose is procreation. And as society’s are based on the institution of the family, the family needs to be strong and thus we have these guidelines.
But part of what helps me cope in this liberal society is that we are supposed to love everyone, good or bad, no matter their choices. Obviously drinking alcohol is extremely common here and I’ve had to give it up, but I don’t judge someone else for their drinking. Why wouldn’t they drink? They are not following a set of guidelines that says they shouldn’t. The same with homosexuality.
Why homosexuality exists if it is against God’s wishes is something that this issue caused me to contemplate. The best answer I can see is related to the challenges we all face. The Baha’i view on the purpose of life, and I feel this sentiment is shared in Islam, is to develop spiritual qualities and draw closer to God – and following God’s intentions for us is part of developing spiritual qualities and virtues. We are all born into different socioeconomic situations and I believe this is because, as we are all unique individuals, we have needs for different challenges to help us grow spiritually. For example, if you need to learn generosity it would be far better for you to be born into wealth that poverty. I can’t fathom the challenges that homosexuals face when their Faith forbids acting on their own instinctual urges, but I hope that facing those challenges helps them grow spiritually.
Lastly I would like to agree with Hasan… I believe any of us have the right to deny someone their Faith. If when converting to Islam or the Baha’i faith you had to instantaneously follow ALL the rules of the faith… it would be impossible. It’s a journey over our lives to bring ourselves in accordance with [our understanding of] God’s wishes. And who can know if some rules are of higher priority than others. I’ve learned some of the greatest benefit is in following the rules so that we are not slaves to our own impulses and urges (freedom through submission – seems counter intuitive). You can be a homosexual of faith, but at the end of the day you’ll have to find a way to deal with the reality that your faith teaches you it’s wrong.
شكرا
“I can’t fathom the challenges that homosexuals face when their Faith forbids acting on their own instinctual urges, but I hope that facing those challenges helps them grow spiritually. [...] You can be a homosexual of faith, but at the end of the day you’ll have to find a way to deal with the reality that your faith teaches you it’s wrong.”
Well, I liked most of what you wrote – as much as I can like a text about religion, which I personally dislike – but these sentences seem very, very wrong to me.
That is because of the point of view you have: You accept homosexuality, which is good. But you accept it as a sin, and that is not much of a solution. Homosexuals are born homosexual. They can’t do anything about it.
Would you like to be called a sinner just because you have black hair? Or a huge nose?
That’s why I say religions have to change. Not just in the question of homosexuality, but in every question where they deny the equality of every human being.
“That’s why I say religions have to change. Not just in the question of homosexuality, but in every question where they deny the equality of every human being.”
But if sacred texts like the Quran and Bible were altered, then they would be products of man and not divinely inspired. Given that these religious are centered around God and his pefection, it does not seem possible to change them. Who is man to correct God? Boys are born with foreskin…yet in Judaism and I think in Islam (not sure though) they are to have it removed. Also, Christian children have to be baptized. These religions do not claim that you are born perfect. There are special laws for different groups of people within a religious community (men, women, children, clergy). Some of these groups are based on characteristics determined by birth and some not.
I would like to re-emphasize that the texts say homosexual sex is wrong, not the rest of being a homosexual. Thus I, in all honesty, do not feel that such a rule denies the equality of human beings. And it a purely society building view isn’t even that crazy [though the human reality is obviously very different]. If sex is for procreation and it needs to be done within marriage to have strong families upon which society is built… well that makes sense. That just doesn’t leave much room for other forms of families which I don’t think are necessarily invalid but stable to build a society upon? But that’s also not to say that heterosexual families are all that perfect either. I’m basically thinking outloud at this point.
Basically I think one of the things that makes the issue so tricky [if you are not looking at the texts in a way that they can be altered/reinterpreted] is how you view relationships. If relationships are about finding your soul mate, Mr./Mrs. Right, or blindly following your heart – then this all seems rather horrible. But if a relationship is about creating a life with a partner, which takes a lot of investment and hard work, and from a religious perspective also involves appropriate worshiping of God… then it doesn’t seem that terrible to not be a guy and marry Mr.Right. I’m not from a culture where arranged marriages are at all common, but I have, over time, received the impression that they can be quite successful when you are devoted to your partner, and an incredible love can develop between them even if they didn’t meet till their wedding. Anyone please correct me if I am wrong there.
Thanks for your feedback Simon. This is the most challenging part of my Faith and I am enjoying the discussion enormously [although arguably now having to be chaste until marriage which I was certainly not before becoming a Baha'i is perhaps a more pertinent issue in my day-to-day life].
Cheers
“I would like to re-emphasize that the texts say homosexual sex is wrong, not the rest of being a homosexual. Thus I, in all honesty, do not feel that such a rule denies the equality of human beings.”
Well, they are equal to Catholic priests – but who else?
“If sex is for procreation and it needs to be done within marriage to have strong families upon which society is built… well that makes sense.”
Yes, but that’s not the reality we’re living in. It’s the reality of those ancient times the three religions of the books were founded.
And that is why the religions’ rules need to change: Because the times, the people they are made for have changed. Yes, I’m saying the religions are made for the people, not the humans for the religions.
I know, that’s the view of an Atheist. But if the religion doesn’t serve one [in being a good human or whatever the goal of the religion is], it fails. And if a religion doesn’t accept the equality of all humans, it fails, because it can’t serve them.
That means: If a religion doesn’t accept homosexuals – and to say, only gay sex isn’t allowed is picking words, those men who wrote these religious texts were homophobes, no doubt – it is not worth to be accepted by them, nor by anyone else who can accept them.
Because after all, homosexuality or gay sex doesn’t hurt anyone or cause any damage. The only ones who feel hurt are those hypocrites who get angry at those who disrespect their “moral values”, which are in fact sinful values – sinful as in hate. But still, religions keep teaching: Homosexuality is bad.
And why? Because some men eons ago established a rule they felt to be necessary? Ha. That’s certainly why an intelligent citizen of the 21. century has to deny homosexual their rights.
Btw. I hope you can understand what I mean. I’m a bit tired, maybe I confused something. Enjoy the conversation, though.
Well Simon I can’t speak for the Muslims because this level of detail is beyond my knowledge of Islam but…
On the subject of chronology (and I know this won’t win any points with you for the Baha’i Faith), the Baha’i Faith was established in the mid-19th Century. So that ancient homophobes argument, though compelling, does apply for us Baha’is.
And while I don’t think I have much of anything to say since basically all my thoughts are out there already – what is “against the rules” in the Baha’i faith is the misuse of the sexual impulse, which is to use it outside of the context of two married individuals and for the purpose of having a family (this means masturbation is also a misuse). It’s really all about the family I suppose.
Anyway Simon I hope you can appreciate the challenging position us religious folks can be in. I understand your atheist point of view (as I was once an atheist) and hope I haven’t added too much to your frustration with this intolerant world.
Cheers
Frustration? No, of course not. I think your argumentation is wrong, because you try to defend your faith’s rules instead of developing them to the better. But after all your far from being a religious fanatic – and I can tell, there are many of them out there who are frustrating me. You’re definitely one of the good ones
The Islamic point of view is that human beings were made to worship God. So we must worship Him as He sees fit. We cannot change any aspect of His religion to suit us.
The post mentions many websites that advocate homosexuality within Islam but fails to mention the mainstream point of view and that is homosexual Muslims who are seeking to control their urges and live within Islamic principles. One such blog is http://gaymuslims.wordpress.com and also there is a support group for such Muslims at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/StraightStruggle
Salam.
islam doesn’t even recognize homosexuality as a disease or disorder and doesn’t recognize the fact that homosexuality isn’t a choice.in Qur’an,it asks the gay men to go for women while God,who is telling these words,knows that gay men don’t have any desire for women.he creates them homosexuals then calls them criminals cuz of doing it and asks them to go for women while he knows they can’t!.may be if he said it’s something i made and be patient and fight it,Qur’an’s verses about homosexuality might have gained some sympathy!.however,to ignore,the fact that homosexuals are just born homosexuals and treating them like it’s their choice,is not understandable..i’m a moslem gay and i can’t reach any explanation.
Salam,
Islam recognizes that there is such a thing as urges and teaches patience in order to control these urges, whatever they may be. Islam through the Qur’an and the sunnah of the Messenger peace be upon him teaches methods to control these urgest (fasting, lowering of the gaze, amongst other things). If you are not willing to control these urges, as Islam teaches, there are consequences. The stroy of the People of Lut is one where they rejected all calls to control themselves and to come to their senses. By the way, it has NOT, repeat NOT been proven that homosexuality is congenital…
Salam,
Just thought I could give my contribution to this debate. Religion, whether Islam, Christianity, Buddhism etc., should be about LOVE, shouldn’t it? Those who are religious should love all the creations of God Almighty, including homosexuals. If you incentive hate and persecution, you only force people into obscurantism and unhappiness, just because they have a diverse lifestyle. Views like “homosexuality is curable” or that it is “a whim” or, worse, recommending a prothesis to be implanted so a gay husband could have sex with his wife, as I have recently seen in an Egyptian newspaper report, well… these views are now regarded as unscientific by most of the international community! True scientists today laugh about these outdated views. Taboo themes like homosexuality are seen in Egypt and other arab countries through a particularly conservative 1950′s moral mindset. But, hey, do you want to make a difference or be just another conveyor of such prejudiced and outdated mentality? That said, please, if men-men or woman-woman couples want to be together, just let them do what they want to. It is just not fair to force people to marry someone of the sex they are simply not attracted to. It is nature. And an incredible number of people in Egypt, just like everywhere else, practice homosexual sex some time in their lives, regardless of whether they see themselves as homo, bi or heterosexual. And that include those who want to be seen as pious Muslims. It always seems to me that those who most condemn homosexuality are precisely those who are most afraid it could manifest in their own inner selves. It used to be the same in the West some 50 years ago, and the Arab world will evolve to a more democratic view of society one day. No matter what prejudiced minds do, homosexual rights are and will more and more become a reality everywhere. You can’t stop nature.
S. Almeida, Brazil.
Look, there is a Male and there is a Female.
You figure out the rest, you imperfect humans…
Why do you complicate it with needs, rights, wants, desires and other philosophical endless debates.
Cheers,
I think that it is ridiculous that they are trying to reconcile islam with homosexuality and somehow try to build a positive relationship between them. Islam is clear on homosexuality. I am offended by the thought of this movie.
Although I do believe that homosexuals should be respected and given all their rights as human beings but to reconcile what is clearly forbidden in islam, thats just crazy.
I have to things to say.
It is a human being’s choice to be Muslim
Yet, I don’t understand why a Muslim person needs to believe in a concept that is purely homophobic. You better believe in a philosophy…such as Existentialism.
Still (going back to point one), no one is to decide whether someone wants to call him/herself Muslim or not.
Book Suggestions:
A Nausea
Islam forbid homesexuality. If you want to be gay, then be gay. You can be arab gay or pakistani gay, etc BUT you will never be muslim gay. Being a muslim is to follow and believe in a Holy Al Quran (all 6666 ayats) completely. if you disbelieve even one ayat, then you are NOT muslim. So do not call yourself a muslim when you are gay because you are not following the rule. You cannot call yourself a policeman when you sale drugs. You will be called criminals. All criminals go to jails.
So if you are gay, then be gay. Do not call yourself a muslim gay. Muslim is not a race. It is a follower of faith of Islam. Being gay make you happy, then be gay. Do not try to be gay and muslim at the same time because it is clear and loud for the past 1400 years, there is no room for homosexuality in Islam. The punishment is hell fire. You are not welcome in the masjids, etc.
If you want to be muslim, then ask for God forgiveness and do not be gay.
To John, Im sure you’re angry at some gays who are flouting openly gay behavior and yet calling themselves Muslim, however to say they are not Muslims is wrong. In Islam there are levels of being a Muslim, u can be a Muslim, mu’min, salih, ‘aasi (when u do ma’siah) bad deeds and yet you are still Muslim. They might not be good or the best of Muslims but as long as they have said the shahadah and do the five pillars of Islam and believe in the 6 pillars of faith then they are Muslims. And yes in Islam only actions are forbidden, thoughts and ideas are not, how can it? A hadeeth from the prophet peace be upon him goes something like : when u think of a good deed and then do it u receive 2 blessings and when u think of a good thing and do not do it u gain 1 blessing, when u think of a bad deed and then not do it u also receive 1 blessing but when u think of a bad deed and do it u commit 1 sin. The only gays who are considered outside the fold of Islam is when they openly declare that being gay is ok in the quran and sunnah this can lead them to be non-muslims because they are making claims to that which is non-existent in the quran. You willl discover that any kind of claims made that Islam is ok with homosexuality is based on shoddy scholarship and extensive extensive self interpretation. If u are gay then u must struggle and try to not be one and if you have had sexual encounters then u must struggle even more, do remember that the only sin in Islam which is unforgivable in the eyes of Allah is polytheism(shirk).