Comments on: The case for Sudan http://www.mideastyouth.com/2008/07/14/the-case-for-sudan/ Promoting a fierce but respectful dialogue among the highly diverse youth of the Middle East Fri, 19 Mar 2010 18:54:44 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Global Voices in Italiano » Arabeyes: ci sono motivi legali per incriminare Al Bashir?http://www.mideastyouth.com/2008/07/14/the-case-for-sudan/#comment-182286 Global Voices in Italiano » Arabeyes: ci sono motivi legali per incriminare Al Bashir? Fri, 08 Aug 2008 09:04:29 +0000 http://www.mideastyouth.com/2008/07/14/the-case-for-sudan/#comment-182286 [...] Ali Alarabi, scrivendo per Mideast Youth, si mostra preoccupato dalla legittimità di tale incriminazione: Ci sono infatti problemi legali che riguardano la [...] [...] Ali Alarabi, scrivendo per Mideast Youth, si mostra preoccupato dalla legittimità di tale incriminazione: Ci sono infatti problemi legali che riguardano la [...]

]]> By: Global Voices 日本語 » スーダン：ICCのバシル大統領訴追に対するアフリカブロガーの反応http://www.mideastyouth.com/2008/07/14/the-case-for-sudan/#comment-181783 Global Voices 日本語 » スーダン：ICCのバシル大統領訴追に対するアフリカブロガーの反応 Thu, 07 Aug 2008 06:58:04 +0000 http://www.mideastyouth.com/2008/07/14/the-case-for-sudan/#comment-181783 [...] Mideast Youthに寄稿しているAli Alarabiには、この起訴はダルフールの政治問題の解決には役に立たない試みのようだ。ダルフールでの人道的大小は高いが、スーダン政府には国境を保全する権利があるとAlarabiは指摘する。しかし、大きく裕福な国家はスーダン指導者を罰するために国際法のうしろに隠れている。 国際法は西側諸国の水準に基づいて不正行為を行なっていると見なされた弱い第三世界の国々を罰するためにあるように見受けられる。この問題が示すように、国際法は小さく無力な国に対する大国の利益と力を守るためにある。エネルギー供給、アラブとイスラエルの紛争における立場、そしてイラクに対する見解のこととなると、スーダンは西側諸国によって作られたルールに従っていないと見なされている。 [...] [...] Mideast Youthに寄稿しているAli Alarabiには、この起訴はダルフールの政治問題の解決には役に立たない試みのようだ。ダルフールでの人道的大小は高いが、スーダン政府には国境を保全する権利があるとAlarabiは指摘する。しかし、大きく裕福な国家はスーダン指導者を罰するために国際法のうしろに隠れている。 国際法は西側諸国の水準に基づいて不正行為を行なっていると見なされた弱い第三世界の国々を罰するためにあるように見受けられる。この問題が示すように、国際法は小さく無力な国に対する大国の利益と力を守るためにある。エネルギー供給、アラブとイスラエルの紛争における立場、そしてイラクに対する見解のこととなると、スーダンは西側諸国によって作られたルールに従っていないと見なされている。 [...]

]]> By: Global Voices Online » Arabeyes: Any Legal Foundations for Al Bashir’s Indictment?http://www.mideastyouth.com/2008/07/14/the-case-for-sudan/#comment-178099 Global Voices Online » Arabeyes: Any Legal Foundations for Al Bashir’s Indictment? Wed, 30 Jul 2008 15:54:16 +0000 http://www.mideastyouth.com/2008/07/14/the-case-for-sudan/#comment-178099 [...] Alarabi, writing for Mideast Youth, is also concerned with the legality of such an indictment: Indeed there are legal questions with the regards to the [...] [...] Alarabi, writing for Mideast Youth, is also concerned with the legality of such an indictment: Indeed there are legal questions with the regards to the [...]

]]> By: Global Voices Online » African bloggers’ reaction to ICC charges against Sudanese President al-Bashirhttp://www.mideastyouth.com/2008/07/14/the-case-for-sudan/#comment-172110 Global Voices Online » African bloggers’ reaction to ICC charges against Sudanese President al-Bashir Wed, 16 Jul 2008 17:51:22 +0000 http://www.mideastyouth.com/2008/07/14/the-case-for-sudan/#comment-172110 [...] Ali Alarabi, writing for Mideast Youth, the indictment is an unhelpful attempt to settle the political issue of Darfur. [...] [...] Ali Alarabi, writing for Mideast Youth, the indictment is an unhelpful attempt to settle the political issue of Darfur. [...]

]]> By: eric/canadahttp://www.mideastyouth.com/2008/07/14/the-case-for-sudan/#comment-172074 eric/canada Wed, 16 Jul 2008 14:07:01 +0000 http://www.mideastyouth.com/2008/07/14/the-case-for-sudan/#comment-172074 There are certainly some good points here, but this comes down to a fundamental question that not only affects this discussion but this website as well: To what extent should we "mind our own business" when it comes to international affairs? Because, Ali, that is fundamentally what your argument breaks down to: That the international community, well, mostly the West, should mind it's own business, and if it does so, then the Darfurian problem will soon resolve itself. It is certainly true that the track record of the US has been less than stellar, and that it's hypocritical stance on the abuses and land grabs by Israel is nothing to be proud of. On the other hand, I would like to know, from everone, really, just who they refer to when a humanitarian tragedy like Darfur, like Seirra Leone, like Rwanda or Bosnia occurrs, from armed groups and militias, and people cry out, why isn't someone doing something? Who? The Chinese? They have the largest standing army in the world. The Russians? Excellent armed forces, air force and navy. How about the Turks or the Iranians? Both of whom have strong military forces. How about North Korea? Another big military force, easily capable of bringing peace to these troubled regions. The thing is, negotiators have been working on the Sudanese problem throughout the conflict. They didn't save anyone, did they? The UN had a peacekeeping force staffed by Canadians in the Rwanda genocide, who begged their (and my) government for troops. They didn't prevent the slaughter. The Yugoslavian conflict had both peacekeepers and negotiators come in, but it also ran its course like a wildfire of death. Right now, terrible offenses are occuring in Darfur, in Zimbabwe, and numerous other places around the globe. The UN does little or nothing to stop this, besides lip service, laughable economic sanctions which target the common folk of the affected region while doing little to harm the people in power, and underfunded and ineffective peacekeepers. Quite frankly, this is due to the attitude that your post presents. You condemn the Western powers for interfering, stir up suspicions from the post-colonial days, trumpet about "national integrity", and the bodies pile up. True, the West has it's problems, but in the years to come,when more of these slaughters are going to occur, would you like an insular US, France and Britain will do nothing and commit nothing to help other than "diplomatic means"? Well and good. Plenty of other nations have both wealth and military power now. I'm sure China, Russia and Iran will possess the moral fortitude to intervene in some fantasticly perfect military fashion that spares the innocent and brings immediate peace. You will know when you read their press releases. And about Iraq? Iraq may have been a fiasco from the word go in terms of motivation, it may have turned into a quagmire or violence and ineptitude, but when Saddam's regime fell I saw most Iraqis celebrating having a brutal dictator overthrown, who had made a misery of their lives for decades. And all during that time no amount of diplomatic overtures did anything real to stop him and his regime. No economic sanctions affected him in his palaces and splendour. No dissent or popular uprisings shook him. The US may have completely screwed up the whole Iraq war, but in my opinion that's due to an incompetent son and his gang of cronies trying to correct the cowardice of the father, who should have kicked him out back in the first Gulf War. Dictators, tryants and brutes are not going to stop just because someone asks them nicely or stops shipping tv's and car parts to the people they are oppressing. For all your disdain of the US and the West, I really don't see any other nation or cultural entity standing up to these ghouls. You certainly aren't. There are certainly some good points here, but this comes down to a fundamental question that not only affects this discussion but this website as well:
To what extent should we “mind our own business” when it comes to international affairs?
Because, Ali, that is fundamentally what your argument breaks down to: That the international community, well, mostly the West, should mind it’s own business, and if it does so, then the Darfurian problem will soon resolve itself.
It is certainly true that the track record of the US has been less than stellar, and that it’s hypocritical stance on the abuses and land grabs by Israel is nothing to be proud of. On the other hand, I would like to know, from everone, really, just who they refer to when a humanitarian tragedy like Darfur, like Seirra Leone, like Rwanda or Bosnia occurrs, from armed groups and militias, and people cry out, why isn’t someone doing something?
Who?
The Chinese? They have the largest standing army in the world.
The Russians? Excellent armed forces, air force and navy.
How about the Turks or the Iranians? Both of whom have strong military forces.
How about North Korea? Another big military force, easily capable of bringing peace to these troubled regions.
The thing is, negotiators have been working on the Sudanese problem throughout the conflict. They didn’t save anyone, did they? The UN had a peacekeeping force staffed by Canadians in the Rwanda genocide, who begged their (and my) government for troops. They didn’t prevent the slaughter. The Yugoslavian conflict had both peacekeepers and negotiators come in, but it also ran its course like a wildfire of death. Right now, terrible offenses are occuring in Darfur, in Zimbabwe, and numerous other places around the globe. The UN does little or nothing to stop this, besides lip service, laughable economic sanctions which target the common folk of the affected region while doing little to harm the people in power, and underfunded and ineffective peacekeepers.
Quite frankly, this is due to the attitude that your post presents. You condemn the Western powers for interfering, stir up suspicions from the post-colonial days, trumpet about “national integrity”, and the bodies pile up.
True, the West has it’s problems, but in the years to come,when more of these slaughters are going to occur, would you like an insular US, France and Britain will do nothing and commit nothing to help other than “diplomatic means”? Well and good. Plenty of other nations have both wealth and military power now. I’m sure China, Russia and Iran will possess the moral fortitude to intervene in some fantasticly perfect military fashion that spares the innocent and brings immediate peace. You will know when you read their press releases.
And about Iraq?
Iraq may have been a fiasco from the word go in terms of motivation, it may have turned into a quagmire or violence and ineptitude, but when Saddam’s regime fell I saw most Iraqis celebrating having a brutal dictator overthrown, who had made a misery of their lives for decades.
And all during that time no amount of diplomatic overtures did anything real to stop him and his regime. No economic sanctions affected him in his palaces and splendour. No dissent or popular uprisings shook him.
The US may have completely screwed up the whole Iraq war, but in my opinion that’s due to an incompetent son and his gang of cronies trying to correct the cowardice of the father, who should have kicked him out back in the first Gulf War.
Dictators, tryants and brutes are not going to stop just because someone asks them nicely or stops shipping tv’s and car parts to the people they are oppressing. For all your disdain of the US and the West, I really don’t see any other nation or cultural entity standing up to these ghouls. You certainly aren’t.

]]> By: Dominik (Switzerland)http://www.mideastyouth.com/2008/07/14/the-case-for-sudan/#comment-171908 Dominik (Switzerland) Tue, 15 Jul 2008 21:44:28 +0000 http://www.mideastyouth.com/2008/07/14/the-case-for-sudan/#comment-171908 Hi AliPlease tell me, who do you trust? Sudan's president? Western powers? The Chinese government? The African Union? The United Nations?Someone will have to take charge of the situation and work towards settling the conflict.I still think the UN is the most trustworthy organization and it should be allowed to intervene in cases like Darfur, but Mr. Bashir has been totally uncooperative, so I welcome some pressure.Don't know whether it's gonna help though, it might depend on who the people of Sudan will put their trust in.سلامDominik Hi Ali

Please tell me, who do you trust?
Sudan’s president?
Western powers?
The Chinese government?
The African Union?
The United Nations?

Someone will have to take charge of the situation and work towards settling the conflict.

I still think the UN is the most trustworthy organization and it should be allowed to intervene in cases like Darfur, but Mr. Bashir has been totally uncooperative, so I welcome some pressure.

Don’t know whether it’s gonna help though, it might depend on who the people of Sudan will put their trust in.

سلام

Dominik

]]> By: patbhttp://www.mideastyouth.com/2008/07/14/the-case-for-sudan/#comment-171845 patb Tue, 15 Jul 2008 17:55:34 +0000 http://www.mideastyouth.com/2008/07/14/the-case-for-sudan/#comment-171845 It seems to me that if your thesis is correct and you support the Govt. of Sudan in the Darfur issue you'd then support Israel. Actually the situations are very different but that is your argument. It seems to me that if your thesis is correct and you support the Govt. of Sudan in the Darfur issue you’d then support Israel.
Actually the situations are very different but that is your argument.

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