It's the whore's fault!
Try as I might, I could never understand the mindset of sexual harassers, and in fact I don’t want to. Most of my female acquaintances have reported being subjected to sexual harassment, from groping, to stalking and even violent rape. Whether it’s a testosterone overload or megalomania, I just wish harassers would realize the effects their actions are having on their victims. It’s angering, humiliating and disgusting to say the least.
And to exacerbate the situation for victims, many are faced with guilt as they falsely blame themselves for the abuse. And in Egypt, male harassers apparently agree.
Some 53 percent of men blamed women for bringing on sexual harassment, saying they enjoyed it or were dressed in a way deemed indecent. Some women agreed.
But of course! We’ve all been taught that we’re held accountable before God every time a sex-starved male gets a sneak peek of our flesh. Except that
The survey said most of the Egyptian women who told of being harassed said they were dressed conservatively, with the majority wearing the Islamic headscarf.
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I’ve had to edit and scale down the post, realizing how it would be spun by some of our more delightful readers.
So please, spare us.
thank you for reminding us again about this topic, its amazing how “we” as men are still so backwards.
I believe its a mutual and compelx behaviour or maybe pleasure! We cant here simply conclude that it is subject’s fault or object’s! But we know there exists such a thing; maybe it is natural and has scientific grounds; (As it seems so).
And it is very hard to restric such a act, since it takes place in solitudes and no one is there to prevent.
Then, its not simply whore’s fault or harasser’s, maybe both. We should be more watchful on this topic.
Kawthar, I thank you for bringing light to such an important issue.
Many of our cultures are male dominant ones with *James Bond* male figures whether Islamic or not.
It is somehow accepted in most cultures for a man to look at a woman’s body admiringly and whistle for instance if he finds her pleasing, yet some men might take it to the next level thinking they can get away with it. I believe they think so because society and culture has always looked the other way, and instead of blaming the man and making him take responsibility for his own actions, it is easier to blame the woman for her mere presence in the wrong place in the wrong time.
That is why many abused women still go through the same feelings of guilt, thinking they might have provoked such actions from men..
Many societies are harsh on women and that is why so many do not even report sexual harassment or abuse because they fear for their own reputation knowing that society will put the blame on them, although they are victims.
If there were clear laws that punished men for sexual harassment whether it was verbal or grabbing…etc then you would most definitely see a much lower percentage of harassment..
Actually i currently live in one of da most liberal city (miami) in da world and believe me, a lot happenz here as well—Da Latin/Hispanic male culture is very dominant and aggressive, however, unlike da muslim world (where my parents r from and where i lived for some time), it doesnt reach such absurd levelz as in da muslim world—yes harassment does happen and terms such as “puta” (prostitute,bitch etc) are called—however, da average latina female is more respected than da average muslim female—and keep in mind that in miami, a lot of skin is shown on average (of course, it still depends on an individual basis) and i have noticed many times driving in miami beautiful hispanic females walking on da streets,even alone, but nobody will harass her for da most part—her belly button maybe showing, she may be wearing tight tanks, but she will for da most part not be harassed unlike in da muslim world where it seems all men r holding their dicks waiting 2 screw anything which moves!!! even hearing a young female voice is enough to drive a man bonkers—if all else fails, they will make a hole in da wall and screw it—this is da sad bitter truth—of course if ur from a rich influential family then u dont have 2 worry but they are da exception—in latin culture, for da most part, (keep in mind, bad apples r in every culture and religion)males and females r encouraged 2 get 2 know each other and build a healthy relationship—flirting is taken in good spirit but harassment is looked down upon and condemned and i have seen myself for example when my hispanic male friendz kicked out one of their own guys becuz he was seen using crude language against some female–if it was da muslim world, that guy would had been glorified and look up to but in this case he was ostracized and kicked out and his behavior was called as “unmanly”—In latin culture, such behaviour is looked down upon very strictly—dont get me wrong, rape and harassment does happen in miami but mostly it is ppl who r drug users, alcoholics, clinically depressed person,dysfunctional or just a plain loozer—i have quite a few latina female friendz and we have gone out for lunch and dinner and many times they would first make me meet their families including brother—tell me honestly, in da muslim world, can u imagine a female introducing her male friend or colleage to her family?? Da brother would had killed me and her in da name of honor but not in hispanic culture—i was treated with respect and dignity, even though ethnically im not latin/hispanic—-this is y i really respect and adore latin culture becuz it is one of da most spiritually open and natural cultures. But in our muslim world, everything positive is taken negative—male and female friendship is looked down upon and condemned, dating is haraam, music is haraam,holding hands is haraam,smiling and laughing is haraam, i guess basically everything is haraam—this had produced a very rigid,suppressive,repressive and unhealthy society. sorry 2 say da bitter truth.
By the way, ogling is not sexual harassment! It may arose sexual desires, but not harassment at all. Its the natural way a male being (animal or human) seeks for his mate to find and discover her if she is suit for him or not. In this way, he really enjoys as males are sight determind beings!(evolutionary fact)
And on the other side, female being (Animal or human) needs and enjoys to be the center of males attentions and be watched! Then, its not harassment. If there was no ogling, there was no child, since no couple have came to each other when they hadnt seen each other! Its very natural and has evolutionary grounds.
Some people say that though wearing a scarf on their head most Egyptian women are not properly covered and yet in the west where bwomen wear what they want..we don’t see this type of behavious EXCEPT from Arab men. Conclusion: It’s Arab men who have the problem
while its true that its mostly arab/muslim men for da most part who have this harassment problem but u have 2 look at root problem—living in a suppressive,repressive, rigid society where only da top 1% upperclass thrive in properity, frustrated, lack of job, no family support be it psychological or financial, corrupt system where hard work is not rewarded and most of all, living in a society where male female friendship and relationships r looked down upon then yeh da outcome is you have mentally sick society in general particularly sadistic men.
Dear Arabista, what you mentioned here is not an argument at all. That’s not Arab men and there is nothing wrong with them. If you restric someone on something that he/she needs it, then he/she goes crazy for it. Thats the problem!
When you let societies to be free, then they do what they want to do; but when something is out of reach, you demand more and maybe in violating manner!
“When you let societies to be free, then they do what they want to do;”
Thats not necesarily a good thing. What someone wants to do is not always good for someone else. Also, having the freedom to do what you want can lead to an unrivaled sense of entitlement. Rape and harassment occurs in the west as well, but I feel it occurs for the opposite reason: people are not restricted enough. Americans have a saying: “it’s a free country,” meaning, “I can do whatever I want.” This political worldview can permeate into other aspects of people’s lives, such as interpersonal relations between men and women. Freedom (in social and political contexts) should be granted in moderation. Otherwise, people will become spoiled and feel entitled to walk all over each other physically, sexually, financially, politically. Basically, freedom is good, but too much of it can hurt a society in the same way excess restriction can.
Jassi, Bravo, ole, and congradulations on callin’ ‘em like you see ‘em. Suprised nobody jumped all over you and called you an ignorant bigot. I admire your candor. Obviously, I agree with you 100%.
MadMax, I agree with you. But by mentioning “let the societies be free”, I did mean a moderate freedom! Both ways will spoile people.
Sorry, I misunderstood.
Funny how some Arabs like to point fingers at the “immoral West” what with our porn, homosexuality, promiscuity and stuff..
I challenge you ME ladies to walk the street in my Danish home town, and walk past me and my mates where we hang.
If you wear the full burqa, we might turn our heads and think “what the..?” if you wear the hijab, we’ll do our utmost _not_ to notice you. We won’t say a word. If you look like Haifa Wehbe, we might turn our heads, even mutter “oh-la-la! ” but none of us will touch you, call you names or even whistle. Only losers do that up here. Bottom line: segregation causes imbalance causes harassment. What Jassi said.
But the problem is, in our societies, what constitutes “wrong place in the wrong time” is basically very broad.
Even if the woman is covered form head to foot, she’d be blamed for venturing out in the first place – and probably without a “mahram” (male relative) too. In many of the articles I read that address the issue of sexual harassment, the solutions called for basically involve placing restrictions on the freedom of women. If “protecting” society involves suffocating half the population, then why not?
I think it was Dubai that used to punish young men caught harassing by publishing their pictures in a local newspaper. The stigma associated with it did help in cutting back supposedly lead to a decrease in incidents of harassment
Hallalhippie, it’s kind of ironic that you say you don’t like “Arabs pointing at the immoral West,” and then do exactly that by pointing fingers at “y’all Arabs.” Try to focus on this problem. I’m sure rapists and sexual harassers exist in Denmark too. You’re not morally superior, maybe socially, in terms of individual freedom and comfort, but it ends there. We have our problems, a lot of them, but you aren’t superior. Stop trying to come off as if you are and making this about race (or religion.)
It’s kind of tedious that every time we complain about a societal issue we have all of these racists coming here and saying, “WELL IN OUR GREAT LANDS, WE DON’T DO THAT, BUT YOU GUYS ARE BACKWARDS AND PROBABLY LIVE IN TENTS.” Seriously. It drives us nuts and makes us want to stop talking about these things if you guys are going to keep using it as a racist attack against us.
In any case, strong and great post Kawthar.
well i hope ur not calling me a racist; if u read my post carefully and with a cool head, i said that im muslim myself and lived and travelled in a few muslim countries, so there is no way im being racist (if it was directed against me)—however, i was honest about how our muslim societies are in regards 2 male-female relationships and how religion and culture is used 2 supress and repress natural emotions and it is true that western countries r more open and liberal than most muslim countries, though not necessarily perfect and i dont think there is anything racist about that. and i did give examples illustrating my point though i did say that in da city where i live, rape, harassment, incest does happen—however that was not da main point—da main point is how male female relationship is different when u compare them in da muslim and non muslim worlds. Im not saying that in da non-muslim world or western world its perfect and there r no flaws, only that weighing all da pros and cons, i think for da MOST part, male-female relationship and friendship values r better and more open and thus better than in our part of da world where it is suppressed in da name of religion. Thats y harassment is more widespread in muslims landz than in western countries, even though more skin is shown in da west
Esra’a, You’re altogether too defensive. Hallalhippie didn’t say anything like that at all. That’s just the way YOU really look at ME countries.
Jassi, You should go to Rio some time. That place is incredible and TOTALLY Latino.
You’re just saying that because frankly, you’re the same as Hallalhippie in terms of superiority issues. Your holier-than-thou comments aren’t impressive, don’t think we forgot your “y’all can kill each other” remark. He’s making the exact same implication in every comment that he publishes here, simple as. Don’t come here to find more reasons to oppress, mock, and hate others all the while patting your own self on the back for thinking you’re actually contributing something worthwhile to the issues by claiming you’re better.
Esra’a, where in my post are there any “superiority issues” ? Yes, we have rapists too. Yes, we have “y’all can kill each other” attitudes among us. Yes, we have sexual liberties that (in my opinion) have gone too far… but still, you could walk past me and my mates unharmed. Not superior, only different. I -personally- claim to respect women more than some Arab/ME men do. Please don’t assume that I “oppress, mock, and hate”, simply because I find it funny (not “don’t like) I really think you put too much into it.
Oh, and Esra’a: calling me a racist is kinda below your standards, isn’t it ?
http://www.irishhealth.com/index.html?level=4&id=8528
The Islamic attitude towards women is at fault for the large amount of rape and sexual harrasment by muslim men in western countries and their own countries. They of course have the attitude that any bit of flesh a woman shows is an invitation which cannot be revoked. They are culturally socialised and reinforced by very extreme and backward religous views as well.
The fact that their belief that women exposing hair, flesh, legs, etc induces rape and harrassment from men, and is therefor the womens fault is completely disproved by the fact that in parts of the world where woman of tribal lifestyles still walk around wearing practically nothing yet rape and sexual harrassment is rare. Likewise women are seldom raped on a beach wearing a bikini in western countries.
The more you deprive a man of female contact and sexual relations, and even visually of womans flesh, the more they will be stimulated by the sight of it.
I actually live a very perverted sexual lifestyle by some peoples standards. Orgies, gangbangs, 3somes, 4somes, etc etc are a regular part of mine and my wifes sex life. I’m frequently in the company of room fulls of naked women and men having sex in front of me and have many sex partners. I can easily sit next to a naked woman while she is giving another guy head and just sit and talk about politics and enjoy a coffee with another naked woman while all that is going on within arms reach from me. I virtually never become sexually aroused unless there is direct sexual activity directed at me by a woman…..regardless of her state of dress or undress. I also have absolutely no jealousy at all about my wife enjoying her sexuality as much as she desires with whoever she desires. I have been completely desensitised to the primative and backward emotions that make men feel as though they must own and control a womans body and sexuality.
The strict religion of Islam serves to serve the primative irrational male need of possession and control of womens bodies and covers them and makes them completely unavailable……even to view…..by other men. This makes men starved, and makes what they seek to keep hiden infinately more desirable, to the point of not being able to control their desires……as well as making their desires so easily stimulated……the sight of womans ankle will do.
Stu,
This behavior is remarkably similar to that of Rome’s citizens during the twilight of her empire. Everyone doing only what pleases them and thinking of no one but themselves – not one iota of self-control. Kinda scary. You are implying that other beliefs are primitive because they impose standards of behavior on their followers. I would actually argue that the lifestyle you lead is more immature and “primitive.” Animals are known for having sex randomly with whoever they please…Humans are supposed to overcome those desires.
Despite my sentiments, I do not believe anyone has the right to tell you what to do in your own house or in some area where privacy is to be expected. Enjoy…
All of the previous posts seem to blame Islam for some reason. In a truly Islamic society, no mention of rape or other lewd behavior would ever take place because quite simply a man’s attention would be upon his wife only, without distractions by other scantily clad women. Ever heard of public rapes or lewdness when the Taliban were in power? Didnt think so. End of argument.
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