Istanbul bombs: 13 dead, 100+ wounded, who to blame?
July 27th, 2008Every news channel right now is running the breaking news on Istanbul’s bomb blasts, in what the city governor calls a “terrorist attack.”
Whoever did it, and whatever message they are trying to convey, this is certainly a disgusting way of doing it.
Now the media is gathering their sources to play the blame game. Assumptions are already being made:
Several groups, including Kurdish separatists, far-left groups and Islamists, have carried out bomb attacks in Istanbul in the past.
While listening to news reporters wonder on who is responsible, and recounting the attacks throughout history by the PKK, the first thing I thought of was our Kurdish Rights campaign. People continue to claim that such a campaign is pro-terrorism, an absurd and false accusation that implies all Kurds are terrorists. It’s worth noting that numerous peaceful Kurds have also been abused as “traitors” to their cause and caught in such attacks by extremists. Such terrorist attacks do not illegitimize the fight for Kurdish human rights and Kurds should not be collectively punished for this as their vast majority are innocent and in fact do not approve of these violent tactics.
So if, for any reason, more sources claim that it’s Kurdish separatists committing these crimes, blame them directly, and please, do not turn to our campaign and note that Kurds are asking for it. That is the equivalent of punishing all Muslims for the actions of Al Qaeda, and I’m sure everyone reading this is logical enough to realize how wrong and abusive that is.
Shame on the terrorists who committed this vile act. May all victims rest in peace, and may God bless all the wounded, and their families and loved ones.
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I think that we can all agree that the perpetrators belong to a minority that we all hate: bloodthirsty idiots!
Death toll has risen to 17 so far, and the Turkish government is responding:
For years the Turkish government has said this, and the ones paying the price are the innocent Kurdish community at large. “Winning this fight” apparently means silencing and denying the basic human rights of an entire nation.
I hope that by “unity” in Turkey they include all Kurdish citizens of the country and allowing them to continue peacefully maintaining their culture and identity.
It is not right to use these things to justify attacks against all Kurds. They should find the ones directly responsible and punish them accordingly, instead of repeating the same mistake that they have been guilty of for decades.
Esra’a, of course you are right that the extremist actions of the terrorists should not be used as justification for punishment against a whole segment of society.
However, the terrorists know full well that that is impossible. Whenever you go after terrorists, innocent people get hurt, because the terrorists usually surround themselves with innocent people, what some may refer to as “human shields.”
So in a way, the terrorists are counting on such mass retribution, as a way of furthering their cause among some people.
In other words, terrorists want to intimidate and paralyze their “enemy,” but in addition, they seek to have the enemy retaliate in an unjust manner, and thereby inflame the passions of innocent victims who otherwise may not have been predisposed to support the terrorists’ cause.
Why is all this important? We have to understand their modus operandi to defeat them. We have to get into their sick little heads to understand what they’re doing, and why, so that we can beat them at their own game, and thereby marginalize them in the eyes of their own people.
They are quite rational in their thinking. They have limited military resources, so they use what they have to the ultimate extent, and a lot of what they do is psychological in nature. In a way, they are running a very sophisticated PR campaign, which uses violence to intimidate the enemy, and which uses unjust retaliation by the authorities, to recuit additional support.
[...] message they are trying to convey, this is certainly a disgusting way of doing it,” remarks Mideast Youth, on the latest bomb explosions to rock Istanbul, Turkey. Posted by Amira Al Hussaini Share [...]
Nissim, I think you misunderstand my point concerning the Kurdish situation. It seems that you are comparing it to Israel/Palestine. It’s not the same. Therefore this doesn’t really make sense to me:
What does this have to do with the Kurdish situation? When I talk about Kurdish rights being abused, I mean them being punished through the denial of basic human rights: speaking their language, practicing their culture, being involved in public life, being imprisoned/tortured simply because of their identity. The Turkish government is guilty of all of these things simply because of the actions of a few; the PKK, which frankly does not represent most Kurdish people who are working hard to peacefully coexist with their friends and neighbors.
This has nothing to do with innocent people getting used as human shields. It has to do with government’s racism and attempt to wipe out an entire nation’s history and culture, which the Kurds are struggling to maintain. It’s all they want.
Esra’a, I did not mean to say that the Kurdish situation is the same as the Palestinian situation, and frankly, I’m not that familiar with Kurdish history, and with the treatment of the Kurds.
However, I think that there are certain principles with regard to terrorism which seem to pertain to many different situations.
For example, as you describe it, the actions of a few, the PKK, have caused the Turkish government to impose a form of “collective punishment” on the many, to prevent them from speaking their language, practicing their culture, being involved in public life, and also subjecting them to imprisonment and torture.
What I was suggesting, is that this injustice is exactly what the PKK want, because a widespread injustice of this sort could eventually translate into additional support for their cause, from Kurds who may not have been predisposed to the PKK cause, but who come to that position due to the collective punishment imposed by the Turkish government.
So the PKK go after their enemy, ellicit an unjust response in the form of collective punishment, and use that injustice to consolidate even more support among the people.
I think it is important to understand the calculus of terrorism, because it will help us to devise a strategy to defeat it. I believe that in the final analysis, we will have to beat the extremists at their own game, and thereby marginalize them in the eyes of their own people.
If the extremists are ideological about violent Jihad, for example, we will be ideological about Common Sense. If the extremists invest peanuts in charitable handouts, we will invest some serious money in good paying jobs, jobs which protect the environment. And if the extremists sell a vision of hope for martyrdom or paradise, we will sell a Vision of Hope for Peace, Prosperity, and Freedom. At every turn, we will cut them off at the pass, and beat them at their own game.
I realize that with the PKK it will require a different approach, but a lot of the basic principles are the same.
sadly, i have come 2 da conclusion after all these long yrs that these terrorist incidents will never ever come 2 an end unless there is no end 2 injustice,oppression,suppression,repression,inequality, and humiliation. These incidents may be suppressed for a while, but its always a matter of time, when they resume again. When a ppl or ethnic group, whether kurds, palestinines,arabs,iraqis etc feel under da sword for a long time with no hope of relieve, then sorry 2 say this is da end product—and i dont know y, but da way these terrorist incidents r happening all over da world, istanbul,india,iraq,israel,afghanistan,checniya and a very possible upcoming war with iran combined with natural disasters such as tusunami,earthquakes,hurricanes, i think da whole world is coming 2 an end.
You could be right, Jassi, but then again, maybe we can keep that from happening. I think we can play a big part in bringing some sanity to the world.
The way I see it, for what it’s worth, the world is like a satellite floating in space, on which an experiment of sorts is being conducted. You take equal parts of good and evil, add a pinch of Common Sense, and whole bunch of nonsense, for good measure, and see which way things will go.
So far, you may be right, and the world may be tilting toward a bad place. I can’t argue with you there. But there is always room for choice. We could choose to go down that dead end road. Or we could choose to make sense of our lives, by believing in what makes sense, instead of what we want to believe.
That’s the experiment we’re in. It’s as if God, the creative energy of the universe, wanted to see how things would play out. It may have been the only way for Him to validate the efficacy of His creation. It’s not like He has His mother telling Him how good He is. He had no choice but to create, and to see if His creation is indeed good. When it comes to His creation of man, who was created in His image no less, He may be forced to wait longer than He expected.
I believe that there is time to turn things around. It will involve selling people on a Vision of Hope: using a new ideology based on common sense, using new investments to create jobs which protect the environment, using an Ideology of Common Sense along with some well placed Investment Dollars to inspire people with a sense of Hope, using Public Diplomacy to sustain the Hope, and using the willingness to fight against extremism but also positioning the fight within a Vision of Hope.
If we do this, and more, we may just be able to tilt the balance in our favor, in favor of peace, in favor of what makes sense.
And with regard to the terrorists, you’re probably right that they will always be around. The reason is not necessarily the injustice, oppression, suppression, repression, inequality, and humiliation, although these contribute to the problem. The reason the terrorists will always be around is because terrorism is an effective way of consolidating political power, using limited resources. It will be around, because it works.
What we need to do is to Sell a Vision of Hope, and thereby marginalize the terrorists in the eyes of their own people. That is probably the only way to keep their activities down to a minimum. We want to put them in the untenable and uncomfortable position of holding their people back from a better life. The terrorists will not be able to capture the public imagination, once people begin to imagine a better life for themselves.
Nissam said: “Sell a Vision of Hope” …… hear, hear ! Only way to defeat terrorists, is not fearing.
@Nissim, that is the biggest load of garbage and resembles everything the Turkish propogandists would like you to believe. The PKK is a result of the injustices inflicted by the Turkish government on the Kurdish people, not a cause. If Turkey had respected Kurdish political, social, economical and and all other human rights from the beginning and respected Kurds as equals in Turkey, the PKK would have never come into existence. Neither would have the other rebel parties in the other parts of Kurdistan.
Regarding the particular event in Istanbul, I find it rather ridiculous that anyone would be so quick to blame the PKK when the only available source making that claim is the Turkish government, which has been dishonest about everything since it’s foundation as a so-called republic. They still deny the Armenian genocide almost 100 years after it happened, they denied Kurds existed until the 1990s and they still deny there is discrimination against Kurds.
In fact, there have been cases in the past where the Turkish government blamed the PKK for attacks and later it was discovered that the attack was actually carried out by Turkish military men or groups supported by the government. You don’t believe me? Go research the bombing in Semdinli carried out by Turkish officers, or the bomb explosion in Diyarbakir that was claimed by a Turkish nationalist group. Both blamed on the PKK but later those blaims were proven to be false.
But you believe the Turkish government so quickly when they blame the Istanbul bombing on the PKK. How could you rely on such a unreliable source for your information?
The PKK denied and condemned the attack in Istanbul, and also, offered their condolences. All previous attacks committed by the PKK have been admitted by its leadership. So, I like to think that when the PKK denies an attack, they are probably telling the truth.
You obviously have no familiarity with the Kurdish cause and the objectives of the PKK. Otherwise, you would not have made this statement. The PKK has offered over 5 ceasefires in the last decade. They have offered to lay down all arms if they are offered amnesty and if the Turkish government grants Kurds their political, cultural, economical, and social rights. The Turkish government has rejected every ceasefire, and actually, has increased military operations to provoke the PKK to pick up arms again every single time.
The PKK is ready to end their “cause”, but it is Turkey that doesn’t want that.
The Turkish military is the one that destroyed over 6000 Kurdish villages, not the PKK. That is quite the retaliation if you ask me. Right now, Turkey is bombing Kurdish villages in Northern Iraq where there are no guerillas within hundreds of miles according to official Iraqi reports. Let me say again, that is quite the retaliation if you ask me.
I suppose you will saying next that all genocides and murders are a result of militants.
Lastly – @Esra’a – I’d love to hear your solution for the Kurdish issue is when the Turkish government has essentially shut down all avenues towards a peaceful and democratic solution. Do you know how many Kurdish politicians have been imprisoned simply for speaking their own language? Do you know how many Kurdish political parties have been shut down in Turkey? I am not saying an armed struggle can ever be won, but I am asking… What peaceful road???
Contrary to your belief, the majority of Kurds actually do support the PKK, as quoted in a research by Aliza Marcus, and it is because of the lack of rights and because they believe the PKK’s target is the Turkish military, not civilians. The majority of Kurds do NOT support attacks on civilians. This is why there are no strong Kurdish rebel groups that do the types of things you might see in Jerusalem or Baghdad. The proof behind this is when a group a few extremists established “TAK – Kurdistan Freedom Falcons” (the group that attacked tourist targets a few times in the last few years), many of the Kurdish organizations and writers began condemning the group and the group was unable to get support from the public.
By the way, everything is always PKK this and PKK that with Turkey. When TAK started bombing, PKK condemned them in an official PR, but Turkey still managed to make the world believe the two groups were one of the same.
Kazo, I do not see why you are seemingly angry with me when we essentially agree on many things. I personally do not know many Kurds who support the PKK’s tactics. Of course they support their mission, anyone with a basic understanding of the Kurdish cause would, but certainly not the means in which they plan on achieving it. Consider this pro-Kurdish article by Orhan Kemal Cengiz:
I think it’s those peaceful Kurds who are trying to win their human rights and freedom by means of peaceful activism will be the ones to eventually achieve it. I think it also has to do with non-Kurds becoming increasingly more active towards the Kurdish cause. If these non-Kurds are encouraged to be involved in Kurdish human rights, a lot can happen, but the PKK discourages such involvement because people would assume that they’d be fighting on the side of terrorism. The more violent tactics used, the more the government will feel the need to retaliate. Non-violent activism is generally underrated despite it doing wonders in involving the entire world to a particular cause, and it’s clear now that governments are most peeved by international outcries.
I do not think it’s safe to lump most Kurds with the PKK, I think it’s a generalization while the real situation is a lot more sophisticated. I also think it isolates and adds further pressure to the millions of peaceful Kurds who simply want to live alongside their neighbors while maintaining their identity and human rights. To me, as an Arab, it was these people who actively inspired and involved me in the struggle for Kurdish human rights, the PKK was not at all convincing for me to get involved. So I too am using similar methods to inspire and involve more non-Kurds to fight for Kurdish human rights because this unity is very much needed for the Kurds to be victorious.
I am not angry with you. When I asked to hear your “solution”, I was being very sincere. I think it is easy for someone who is not involved in the situation to sit back from far and talk about peaceful activism when the reality is that peaceful activism has done nothing but landed innocents like Leyla Zana in torture cells for half their lives only to achieve nothing. I admire your commitment to trying to spread awareness about Kurds and I am not saying that these efforts are useless. I am only asking this: When the Turkish military attacks your family and burns your home, what else can one do but pick up a gun and defend him or herself? The Turkish regime was committing these murderous acts against Kurds long before the PKK existed.
Secondly, what PKK “methods” are you talking about? Is defending against or attacking Turkish military targets really terrorism when it is documented that the same Turkish military has been terrorizing the Kurdish people for centuries? If PKK’s tactics were to target civilians or blow themselves up like the suicide bombers in Baghdad, I could agree with you. But if you read my previous post and do a little research with some real objectivity, you will see this is not the case.
I am not lumping anyone or making any generalizations. My statement about Kurdish support for PKK is based off research, not generalization. Let me state again: PKK has called 5 ceasefires and during each made a plea to the Turkish government to engage in a peaceful dialogue with it’s leadership, and the PKK’s demands were nothing more than increased rights for Kurds within the Turkish state. Turkey refused every time and instead increased it’s attacks against not only the PKK but also the Kurdish people in general… what more can the PKK do?
Correction: *for decades (not centuries)
I’m not saying resisting is bad. I’m all for resistance, except when innocent people from either side get involved. Attackers and terrorists deserve to pay the dire consequences of their actions, but if we apply such logic to the Turkish military and government then the same would have to be applied to the PKK as well.
Methods such as these:
(Source)
And I would like your take on the accuracy of this statement:
(Source)
The latter in this statement shows again that there are still many Kurds who are being abused and accused of Turkish collaboration by the PKK simply for rejecting them, just like the previous articles I shared stated. I know of at least 3 Kurds in my life who resent the PKK despite their pride for being Kurdish and their fight for human rights. Unfortunately the world do not hear them loud enough, hence our campaign in strengthening such voices.
So I’m not saying no one should fight back, nor am I implying that no force at all should be used (even though I prefer that none be used), but it must be used within reason if the Kurdish population as a whole aims to be respected instead of hated and feared. Kurds should fight back, and I think whoever believes in justice, equality and human rights should side with them, but there is a limit to what people can and cannot side with, and for me extremism resulting in civilian deaths is one of these things that, no matter what the cause is, will never generate the right support required for all Kurds. Fighting back is important, how one chooses to fight back is more important. This is what makes Leyla Zana an incredibly heroic and admirable figure, because in reality she is 100 times braver and more respectable than any PKK militant, and also inspired millions of voices speaking and fighting for Kurdish human rights.
[...] Rasti points out, the PKK (and related groups) have denied the accusation. In a related post, Mideast Youth laments the tendency to blame the Kurds and the effect that it has on the Kurdish rights movement: [...]
Well, people like Leyla Zana would have never realized their own rights and done what they had done if it weren’t for the PKK raising awareness about the importance of the freedom to express one’s Kurdish identity.
It is rather funny that you cited an article that clearly states right from the beginning that the PKK signed the “Geneva Call Deed of Commitment”, which bans the use of anti-personnel land mines. To my knowledge, the PKK has observed this treaty while Iraqi officials have found proof of the Turkish military’s continued use of these landmines – particularly, that they have laid another couple of hundred in the village areas around the northern most areas of Iraqi Kurdistan.
Esra’a, I am in no way going to deny the fact that the PKK has targeted certain civilians, such as Turkish government workers, in the past. This is true, however, these tactics have not been employed by the PKK for at least a decade. A sad point to make is that despite proof revealed about bombings like Semdinli or that in Diyarbakir, which were initially blamed by the PKK and then later proven to be the works of Turkish officers, the western media and these so-called human rights orgs somehow tend to miss these facts and still blame the PKK in their reports. I’d also like to point out that these claims are making are not conspiracies. These were proven and documented by the Turkish courts themselves (example: Source) but the investigations/trials were never fully out because the Turkish general blew them out like a flame on a candle and made sure the prosecutors never practiced law again.
Secondly, it’s rather silly to be quoting Wikipedia, a site that can be edited by any source. I said you should research with full objectivity, something you definitely cannot do when citing such sources. PKK has fought with two specific groups in Turkey, the Turkish Hizbollah (a group who some radical Islamic Kurds are members of and was manufactured by the Turkish government and later responsible for the assassination of countless Kurdish rights activists and politicians) and with the Kurdish village guards. The village guards have collaborated with the Turkish military for their own profit. These people are hardly innocent like you are claiming, and obviously, they will be treated just like the hostile Turkish military. They are one of the same.
By the way, I suggest you read the PKK ceasefire terms and conditions to lay down their arms. Their requests are the same as the requests the EU has made of Turkey and are all in line with international law. Their requests are all human rights and things that the Turkish regime has refused to grant the Kurdish people.
Almost forgot the link…
PKK Ceasefire and Democratic Resolution:
http://www.kurdish-info.net/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=4220
Sorry, the first link was only the ceasefire declaration. Here is the call for a democratic solution:
http://www.kurdish-info.net/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=3467
Thanks for your informative comments.
However, you would have noticed that I didn’t quote Wikipedia directly, I only used it as the vehicle for other sources. I quoted this source within Wikipedia.
I believe any form of violence hurts a movement. It’s also unfair to dismiss groups and articles for being propaganda-ridden just because they are against the PKK yet utterly pro-Kurds.
You can still be pro-Kurdish human rights and anti-PKK.
The following actions are deplorable (notice, this BBC profile does state all the ceasefire and negotiation attempts, and does state that they attempted to put their weapons down several times if Turkey was willing to listen to their demands, so I will not dismiss this one as propaganda as it places a lot of blame on the Turkish government):
(Source)
None of these innocent lives deserved to die for any cause.
I think that’s the main point that Esra’a is making here.
Please excuse my ignorance of the Kurdish history. However, I’m talking theoretically here.
Suppose that Kazo is right in saying that the PKK was brought into existence due to the injustice that was perpetrated against the Kurds in Turkey.
When confronting injustice, the tactics used are often as important as the cause itself.
For example, if you go about killing innocent civilians, in the name of your cause, how can you then complain about injustice, when it is you who resorts to unjust means? Doesn’t the violence undercut the validity of your cause. Or doesn’t it at least seem that way.
Here’s another example. In Israel, some 20% of the population is Arab, and these people do suffer from discrimination, even though they also enjoy many of the rights and privileges of citizenship. If the Israeli Arabs decide to persue their cause through violence against innocent civilians, then Israel would retaliate in kind, and many people in the world would justify such retaliation. In other words, violence, as Esra’a says, hurts the cause.
If, on the other hand, Israeli Arabs fight for their rights in other ways, such as in the media, or in the courts, or in the realm of public opinion, etc, as they are doing, then change eventually will come, as is happening today, but in a way that is consistent with the nobility of the cause.
Remember South Africa. A lot of violence and injustice was perpetrated against blacks. However, I don’t recall a civil war, or mass executions of whites. Leaders like Mendela did create a lot of domestic and international pressure, and eventually brought about a change of epic proportions. But they did not really play the violence card in any significant way. And after he won, Mendela did not advocate revenge, but rather, reconciliation.
I think that Esra’a is right. Forget the moral considerations for a moment. Violence is not the best way to effectuate change, especially on behalf of the underdog. It is better, whenever possible, to use other means, even if change comes slower. You want your tactics to be consistent with the nobility of your cause, and killing innocents doesn’t cut it when it is justice you’re after.
Oh this is absolutely wonderful.
Here we have a bunch of people who, by their own admission, don’t know ANYTHING about Kurdish history (except Kazo), and they are condescendingly “supposing” that a Kurd might know something about Kurdish history, particularly when it comes to the Kurdish Freedom Movement.
That sounds intensely racist.
Then there are the lies of the Ankara regime which are swallowed whole around here. I mean, we all know that the Washington regime lied its way into Iraq, so is it not possible that the Ankara regime does the same thing regarding its war in Turkish-occupied Kurdistan?
Oh, yeah, and it IS, in fact, a war. Official government lapdogs like every mainstream media organization is quick to point out Turkish bombing of South Kurdistan, but they haven’t told you a damned thing about the F-16s they’re using right now to bomb Şırnak, do they? Having returned from THAT war zone last month, I can tell you that this is exactly what the Ankara regime is doing.
Go ahead and believe every little item you read in official government propaganda organs like Reuters and BBC. But let me ask you this: Why were no police on the scene of the bombing in Güngören until after the second detonation? There was a ten-minute period between the first and second bombings, but no police present and this in a police state. So why weren’t they there? There are three police stations in Güngören, all of them able to cover the area within five minutes but no one was there to secure the crime scene. Why?
You don’t believe me, do you, because, after all, what would I know about Turkey, or Turkish history, or Kurds or Kurdish history, or the PKK? Take a look at a home video shot by a resident of Güngören. It lasts about two minutes, so we can estimate that this person began filming 8 or 9 minutes after the first detonation. Do you see any flashing blue lights? Any police vehicles? Any police? And the police didn’t make the casualty list, did they?
So why weren’t they there?
Because, like so many times in the past, the police KNEW about the attack and didn’t bother to show up until AFTER it was all over.
But, of course, if you knew anything about Turkish history, if you knew anything about the Deep State or Gladio, you would know to finger the regime as the first suspect in this kind of event.
You would also stop preaching about so-called “peaceful” or “democratic” means of effecting change for Kurds in Turkey because there is NO political avenue open to do this. You would stop your ignorant comparisons with Palestinians or South Africans using public opinion to effect change because the world does not give care what happens to Kurds. Proof? When have you heard the Kurdish side of any of the things you quote here (from official hostile government propaganda organs or Wikipedia)?
There is a reference here made to the Beytuşşebap massacre which is a verbatim quote from the Ankara regime. But if you knew about Güçlükonak, you would know that this piece of propaganda should be carefully examined and you should have also examined HPG’s statement on the massacre because then you would have learned something about the reality of Turkish-occupied Kurdistan in the last twenty-four years, at least. You would have known that 7 of those massacred were Village Guards. You would have known that the TSK massacred the passengers of that minibus in order to stir up the Village Guards, who’ve been abandoning their weapons in record numbers. You would have known that HPG has had a truce with the Village Guards for some time. But that’s the problem here, isn’t it? You DON’T know any of this and you DON’T know about Güçlükonak. You swallowed the Ankara regime’s little Blue Pill, just like it wanted you to.
And why do you cry over the deaths of 13 Turkish soldiers? What do you think they’re doing in Turkish-occupied Kurdistan? I can guarantee you, they’re not there for a tea party. And since you’re referring to the Oramar (Dağlıca) operation here (in which, actually 21 TSKers were killed–but you didn’t read that news either, did you?) why didn’t you mention the treatment HPG used with the 8 prisoners it took during that operation and contrast it with the treatment meted out to them by their own regime, whose uniforms they were wearing and which they were serving?
Yet you justify your so-called “support” of the Kurdish people under the brutal Ankara regime by thinking that most of them don’t support or identify with PKK? Well, then, you can forget about your support because everybody, and I mean EVERYBODY, has, at this moment, or has had AT least one relative in the mountains or AT LEAST one relative who died wearing a PKK uniform.
And now that everyone in Turkish-occupied Kurdistan knows that Turkey, the US, Israel, Iran, and Iraq are cooperating together against them and their relatives in the mountains, morale for the guerrillas is high and PKK has never been stronger.
I guess you missed all of that news, too, because it wasn’t reported in “legitimate” propaganda organs like Reuters, BBC, NY Times, etc., ad nauseum.
Then there is no mention here of the fact that the Washington and Ankara regime rejected outright HPG’s recent ceasefire, from September 2006. There’s no mention here of the fact that the “PKK coordinator” at the time was Joseph Ralston, registered lobbyist through The Cohen Group with the US Senate to sell Lockheed Martin’s tactical fighter aircraft, advisory board member of the American Turkish Council, member of the board of directors of Lockheed Martin. Nor is there any mention that, at the time of Ralston’s appointment as “PKK coordinator” for Turkey, Turkey was in the process of purchasing $10 billion worth of brand new Lockheed Martin F-35 aircraft. And not long after that deal was, in fact, sealed, Ralston stepped down as “PKK coordinator” for Turkey.
See how cheap Kurdish blood is?
But, hey, swallow the Blue Pill, go back to sleep, and believe whatever you want to believe.
As far as I can tell, even though there are some suspects detained over this, no one has claimed responsibility for the bombing. So it could just as easily be pro-islamists or ultra-nationalists as it could be the PKK or one of its splinter groups.
Whether or not the PKK has a right to exist is certainly not under discussion here. The atrocities that all of the kurds neighbors have foisted on them over the decades are more than enough reason to take up arms to secure freedom and peace. That said, targeting civilians and civilian centres, such as was done here, is wrong. No amount of oppression or similar behaviour on the part of one’s oppressors will justify such tactics. It reduces your cause to one of two street thugs brawling it out. I think that’s the point that folks are trying to make.
That said, I just wanted to comment that the US really has boned the Kurds over the last couple of decades, haven’t they? From Gulf war I where they promised to liberate the Kurdish areas of Iraq and then buggered off, to being all chummy with them during the latest Gulf War, only to not only get cut out of the Iraqi national political scene, but to have the US just stand there while Turkey raids over the border, then sell them more arms to do so. Nice…
Mizgin, first of all, I don’t think the Blue Pill is just for sleeping, although I’m not an expert on that, either.
Secondly, if you don’t know about Kurdish history, it’s OK to admit that, right off the bat. Better to admit what you don’t know, than to pretend to be an expert on something you know nothing about.
Let’s assume for the moment, that the equities of the matter are exactly as you say. Let’s say that the Kurds are 100% right on the matter, and that Turkey has no legitimate argument to make.
If that’s the case, then you deserve to win. You deserve to be vindicated, and made whole. The question then becomes: How do you accomplish that? Are you going to win by going against an army that is far stronger than you? Or are there other levers of power that you could pull, even if, as you say, there is no democratic structures in place for such an effort?
In South Africa, which you are right to say was different, there were also no democratic structures in place to vent opposition to apartheid. And yet, people found ways to make their will known. In the final analysis, the will of the people cannot be deterred. And after a while, the pressure against the white regime became overwhelming, and impossible to resist, despite the fact that the regime possessed sophisticated weaponry.
You could say, if you wish, that you have nothing to learn from South Africa, because it was a different situation. But my sense is that we can all learn from one another, because in one way or another, we all share the same truth. There aren’t different varieties of truth. There is truth. That’s it. And it’s up to us to use our common sense to come to terms with the truth that sits there before us, staring us all in the face.
The reason I talk with you about the Kurds, even you seem to know a great deal, and I admit to know very little, is because I believe in bringing together all the pieces of the human dilemma, which lie scattered all around us. Like you say, the Kurdish problem is largely ignored. That’s not right. Human suffering is human suffering. We can’t pretend that each incident of human suffering fits into nicely wrapped packages, and that each situation is vastly different from all others. Sooner or later, all things come together, and must be dealt with honestly and justly.
There are things that Kurds could be doing, short of violence, that could help make a difference, and that would be more in keeping with the justice of their cause. And the same applies to all people who carry the heavy weight of injustice upon their shoulders.
[...] Rasti, il PKK (e gruppi correlati) hanno respinto le accuse. In un post sullo stesso argomento, Mideast Youth si lamenta della facilità con cui si incolpano i Curdi e delle conseguenze di questa tendenza sul [...]