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God and the Big Bang are two completely different concepts.

Maybe, maybe not, Shaul. Think of it. Some 13.7 billion years ago there was nothing, not even time or space, and all of a sudden, there’s a big explosion, and instantly there is everything, the entire universe in all its glory.

Imagine the amount of energy it took to do that, and the intelligence as well. Science could try to describe it, but will never be able to fully understand it. Why can’t we call that energy, and that intelligence God? If the word God means anything, it means the kind of power that could pull something like the Big Bang off. Therefore, I think of God as the sum total of all the creative energy in the universe. “He” is like an artist on a rampage, painting at will, with each brush stroke containing billions of heavenly bodies.

When you talk about religion, that’s a horse of a different color altogether. Religion is not God. God is God. Religion tries to give us an image of Him, but so very often, that image is tainted by the political calculations of the moment. But when religion does it’s job properly, it could help us to conduct ourselves with honor and within an ethical framework, and help us appreciate the wondrous mystery that is God.

…unrepentant Israeli supremacists like you…

You keep calling me a “supremacist.” I prefer to think of myself as a Village Idiot. But I take comfort in knowing that even an idiot can stumble upon something important.

I guess I’m not all that repentant. Even on Yom Kippur, in the synagogue, I don’t repent all that well, to tell you the truth. But I do believe in Selling a Vision of Hope. And I will do what I can to give substance to that vision. If I succeed, maybe I’ll have less to repent for.

Your dreams are nice…

Thank you for that Eva.

My wife and I like to take morning walks. I drive her a little nuts sometimes. As we are walking, I see earthworms on the road. They got there because it was raining the night before, and they were lured onto the pavement. I know they won’t survive the hot sun. So usually I pick them up and put them back onto the earth. I believe in life, and I loathe the suffering that abounds all around us.

Let me be clear. I detest the occupation. I detest the fence. I detest the checkpoints. And I certainly detest bringing any harm on anyone, particularly pregnant women.

We have no issue on that score. Our issue is one of methodology. Because the issues you talk about carry so much moral weight, we must find a solution that actually does something to improve the situation. You believe in exposing the atrocities. I think that could help, but it is not enough to close the deal. And if we don’t close the deal on peace, it is almost as if we don’t care. Good intentions are not enough.

The most powerful force in today’s globalized world is the economy. People need to make a living, for everything else to fall into place. In addition, people are beginning to worry seriously about the degradation of the environment. And in addition, as well, the prevalence of ideological extremism is also a concern.

Imagine that Peace is a spaceship, like the spaceship Enterprise on Star Trek. If you want to power that spaceship, if you want to give substance to the hope for peace, you can propel that ship with three powerful engines: a solution for the economy, a solution for the environment, and a solution for extremism.

Selling a Vision of Hope could accomplish all three in one shot, and in fact, for any one to be solved, you will have to address all three.

I am not against what you are doing. And no, I am not proud of a lot of what is happening in the West Bank. I just want to help create something substantively that could change that situation for the better. There is no reason why people of good will could not work together, in their own ways, to give substance to their dreams.

Your first remarks are completely ridiculous and nonsensical. What does my name have to do with my religious, or non-religious more exactly, convictions?
God and the Big Bang are two competely different concepts. God is a question of faith, a projection of the human mind, to fill a psychological need. The Big Bang is a recent scientific theory, widely accepted now by the scientific community because it allows to explain in the most satisfactory way the natural phenomena observed in the universe. God doesn’t explain anything, it just add mystery to the incomprehensible. It is foremost an authoritarian principe projected in the “sky” to allow small groups of people to control whole societies. As it is told by the religions themselves, like Judaism, Islam and Christianity, it is kind of a celestial king and father, a kind of oriental despot with absolute power in fact, which is not very surprising, the model having been the Assyrian or Persian kings, who encouraged and organized that kind of belief in order to secure obedience among the peoples they subjugated…

Concerning the question of “apology”, one last word, and I will stop with that too, because it is a waste of time to “discuss” with unrepentant Israeli supremacists like you: just imagine that the Germans would have never recognized their responsability in the Holocaust and would have never apologized to the Jews for that and never agreed to give them some compensation. Do you really think that the Jews would have lived in peace with that situation and would have agreed to established again friendly relations with the Germans, like it is the case today? Today, the Jews, including the Israelis, are far more friendly with the Germans than with the Arabs, and are far more willing to speak German than Arabic, which in my eyes is pretty absurd…

Does have apology really nothing to do with that? Your line of argumentation is so biased and dull-witted that it is sickening.

Watch this – one of the many, many videos available…
I could give you dozens, and they are NOT propaganda…

I think this will be my last comment here. Reading what you say – I, who live in the midst of all this mess – makes me s… . Sorry to be so blunt.

Would you please try to get back on the solid ground? Your dreams are nice, but don’t you see that neither most of my fellow citizens nor my government doesn’t care a d*mn about how Palestininans live or die? Why did you avoid to reply to my questions about injustice?

No that you question a persons atheims because of his name (??) – let’s talk about YOUR faith. Are you familiar with HALACHA [Jewish religious law]? Do you know what are the laws concerning pregnant women and all the more women giving birth? Do you know about the laws that are meant to preserve human life?

If not, I’ll come back and give you links and quotes. If yes, then please tell me how you see a 19 year old Jewish brat in uniform who feels like GOD because he has a weapon and is allowed to decided over life and death? – Pregnant women about to give birth come to a checkpoint in order to get either to a Palestinian hospital (not every village has a hospital, not even in the US) or, in difficult cases to get to an Israeli one? (Some of our hospitals are the best in the region and people come from all over the region to get help there…) and this brat in uniform decides to delay her? Not to let her through? To make her wait – just so, for no reason.. Or could you give me any reason why to delay a woman in labour-pains?? – The woman dies (it happened more than once, please don’t even try to deny it) – or the child dies (several dozens of babies have died this way). This brat – an Israeli soldier! representing YOUR honor as a Jew and Israeli – a child of the state that you say should be “a light upon the nations” – has violated EVERY EXISTING HUMAN LAW - our own religious law, the laws of human rights, … In my eyes he has committed a murder – in religious law he would be qualified like this as well – but he goes free. No punishment. He has deliberately killed “the universe” as the Kabalah says. He has killed a human being – for no reason at all.

Are you proud of this soldier? Are you proud of this army? What security measures did he obey in order to kill a mother or a newborn???

Nissim. You should be ashamed of what this army does to us! You should blush of shame of how these “soldiers” dishonor our names as Jews, Israelis and humans!

By the way – are you aware that the Israeli army has copied more than one measure of our great Master, the SS? – Are you aware that in Israel the “Judenpolizei” is re-installed? Of course not “Juden”-polizei – would we opress ourselves – no, but “Palestinian-Polizei”!! Another honorable deed of our “Security Service” (did you know that SS means “Schutz-Staffe” = “Security-Service”?) … I’m REALLY “proud” of my army – aren’t you as well??

If the universe exists, doesn’t it make sense that something created it? Suppose we say it was The Big Bang? Would you go along with that? Now suppose we say that The Big Bang is God? Would you then believe in God? What’s the difference between The Big Bang and God? Both are reputed to have created the universe? It’s just a thought. But isn’t a lot of this a matter of semantics, and not really belief?

But more to the point, if I thought that apologizing would bring peace, I would be the first to do it. But I don’t think it would work, and I think it would be dangerous for Israel to do it alone, because certain people would take that apology as an admission that Israel’s existence is not legitimate. And I don’t thing that’s true in the slightest.

Don’t you feel the same way about people who offended you?

People offend me all day long, and I don’t expect apologies. Life is too short. But I don’t give up on people easily. I usually do everything I can to connect, and hope that a human connection could make a difference. For example, if Israel did something substantial to turn the Palestinian economy around, that would be an admission of sorts, but everyone could still hold their heads up high.

In the case of the Israel-Palestinian conflict, the offenders are clearly the Zionist Jews who settled on Palestinian land and established a state for themselves without taking into account the presence and the will of the local Palestinian population, which was at the end of the process largely expelled and displaced, without any compensation.

With all due respect, Shaul, not quite. A lot of the land was first purchased by the Jews from absentee Arab landlords. Also, before declaring a state, the Jews agreed to the 1947 partition plan proposed by the UN which split the land. The Arabs refused, and invaded instead. Also, the Palestinians were not “expelled.” As the War of Independence progressed, several strategically positioned towns were uprooted by the military for security purposes, but the vast majority of Palestinians left voluntarily, although in fear, due to the urging of invading Arab countries who said that Israel would soon be destroyed and they could then come back to your homes.

Israel never intended to expell the 700,000 Palestinians who left. As proof of that, many Palestinians remained, and became Israeli citizens, and now constitute 20% of Israel. They are discriminated against, it’s true, but they enjoy full citizenship and the rights that pertain to that status. The discrimination is being challenged vigorously in the courts and by various organizations.

I also don’t think that it is fair to compare the Israel/Palestinian conflict to the genocide perpetrated by the Germans. The Israel/ Palestinian conflict is about whose land this is, and there is a strong current of self-defense on both sides of the conflict. The German attrocity was genocide against a people of a certain religion, based purely on racist, supremacist, and bloodthristy ideas. Israel has never acted in this manner, nor has it been judged as such in any tribunal with appropriate jurisdiction.

Isn’t it highly time to put a quick end to that absurd situation for the sake of the Jews too, not only the Palestinians?

Yes.

Do you really like to be in that kind of role as a Jew?

No.

The question is how to bring that change about. Good people on both sides can honestly disagree. I don’t think that apologies are the way to go. I think that Israel and the West should invest heavily in the West Bank, and even in Gaza, to create jobs which protect the environment, and which help to revitalize the Palestinian economy, and which help to protect the environment, and which help to restore Arab pride, and which help to neutralize extremist thinking.

It will be an “apology” of sorts, but one rooted in substance, and with a much greater chance of success.

If there is a donkey here, it is you. But in fact donkeys are smarter and kinder than you… I don’t understand exactly what you are doing here, except inciting. But since the administrators of this site seem to have an infinite patience with hopeless cases like you, I suppose that we will suffer your naughty dumbness for a while still…

Nissim,

First, why do you think that I believe in God, in spite the fact that I am a resolute atheist? What I said about Yom Kippour and Jewish repentance is what we call an analogy. I thought that it could speak to you since you seem to be a proud patriotic Jew, who should know something about his own tradition. This kind of repentance works the same way with human beings. If you want somebody who you offended to forgive you, you have first to recognize your wrong-doing towards him, and then to apologize for it. Only so he can completely forgive you. Don’t you feel the same way about people who offeded you?

In the case of the Israelo-Palestinian conflict, the offenders are clearly the Zionist Jews who settled on Palestinian land and established a state for themselves without taking into account the presence and the will of the local Palestinian population, which was at the end of the process largely expelled and displaced, without any compensation.

To refuse to recognize this basic historical fact is like if the Germans were still refusing to recognize their responsability in the Holocaust and refusing to apologize to the Jews for that and to compensate them.

In the same way, to systematically call the violent actions of the Israeli armed forces against the Palestinians “self-defense” is a bit like if the Germans had called the ruthless crushing of the Jewish revolt in the Warsaw Ghetto “self-defence against terrorists”, which the did indeed… Juergen Stroop, the commander of the German forces in Warsaw saw himself like the Roman general Titus crushing the Jewish revolt in Jerusalem in year 70. But here now the role of the Germans or the Romans is played by the Jews, which is really a very sad irony of history… Isn’t it highly time to put an quick end to that absurd situation for the sake of the Jews too, not only the Palestinians? Do you really like to be in that kind of role as a Jew?

…again you fail to be objective, and fail to use your common sense.

Well, at least I have you talking about “common sense.” That’s a good start.

The only thing you have excelled at in this thread is being idealistic.

Idealism is also a good start, but it’s nothing without action on the ground that gives expression to the intent. I hope to help create facts that will one day speak louder than words.

Well Esra’a, we can respectfully agree to disagree. You take a lot of stock in apologies, I don’t, especially when it comes to nation states. Most apologies ring hollow for me, and come off as a bit contrived. A mass murderer stands in court and says, “I’m sorry your honor.” Big deal. It doesn’t do much for me. But I respect that you believe deeply in what you say, and I respect as well the opportunity you give me to disagree.

Have some respect for these victims, instead of using them as tools to further a profane political agenda.

there are forces at work, even as we speak, which are plotting her demise

The Palestinians can say the same, judging what they have suffered through in the hands of your corrupt government, for many decades.

self-defense

All terrorists claim that they react based on “self-defense,” again you fail to be objective, and fail to use your common sense. With this logic everyone would have the “right” to dismantle people’s homes, build illegal settlements in their territory, and invade other countries. With this poor logic you are practically justifying what Hezbollah do in Lebanon and Palestine against Israeli aggression.

My approach is not based on apologies.

No, it is based in denial, arrogance, and superiority.

and to give Palestinians the Peace, Prosperity, and Freedom that they rightly deserve.

The only thing you have excelled at in this thread is being idealistic; disrespecting Palestinians and Arabs and then claiming that you wish them freedom. You do not make a compelling argument on their behalf at all, all you worry about is yourself, and your own freedom, and feeding your paranoia at the expense of their blood and future.

I want to do what I can

You can start by educating yourself on what is happening and what you’re unaware of. Try to see beyond Israeli propaganda.