If these ridiculous lies is the nonsense that Turkey has to put up with, my admiration for their restraint grows even more.

If these ridiculous claims is the nonsense that Kurds have had to deal with for decades, my admiration for their patience grows even more.

I suggest if these constant attacks had been on the US border, and if the administrators of the source territory had been so provocative in their reactions – the Qandil mountain would today be the Qandil valley, US troops would be in occupation of North Iraq

Much to your dismay, US troops are already too busy destroying the rest of Iraq for no apparent reason, the result of which thousands of innocent civilians are dead. I’m sure that with your logic this too is perfectly “legal” and “moral” despite international outrage and overwhelming amount of condemnation. Many are also stating that it’s illegal, so you don’t have to portray the USA in such a heroic light when it’s not exactly a champion of legal and moral wars and abuse (Gitmo? Abu Ghraib? Please!)

My prayers are with the Kurds for having to deal with this BS and justification of abuse/oppression. And don’t you equate the PKK with the rest of Kurds. Anything the PKK does is a responsibility of just the PKK, and no one else should suffer as a result of their actions, and certainly no one should use their actions to further justify the oppression of the Kurdish minority in Turkey. The PKK doesn’t represent a huge number of Kurds whose only wish is to be respected within Turkey, and currenty they are not. You can deny that; but every Kurd in Turkey will factually state otherwise.

And, seriously, let’s not make this about the USA. This is about Turkey and the Kurds within it. I see no reason why we shouldn’t keep it that way and brag about the US in a way that will make the rest of this thread completely irrelevant.

If these ridiculous lies is the nonsense that Turkey has to put up with, my admiration for their restraint grows even more.

The operation in December 2007 was carried out against PKK enclaves deep in the Qandil mountains where there are no civilian residencies whatsoever. And this was after enduring years of daily attacks on their civilians and military.

The Iraqi Kurd (Talabani’s) response to take responsibility for terrorist actions being launched from their territory was “We will not even hand over a Kurdish cat.”

I suggest if these constant attacks had been on the US border, and if the administrators of the source territory had been so provocative in their reactions – the Qandil mountain would today be the Qandil valley, US troops would be in occupation of North Iraq having obliterated not only the PKK but the Kurdish adminisration who hosted them (just as the Taliban was dealt with re Al Qaida) – moreover, the US in this hypothetical scenario would have been fully within its moral and legal rights to have done so.

And so would Turkey.

And if the best argument against these is to concoct fairytales about anti-civilian campaigns in December 2007 that did not happen, I suggest you know it too.

today turkey kissing EU s ass to let them to join the EU while the entire country has smell of murder ,dictatorship,corruption, discrimination, unjustice law, human right abuses, torturing, finally democracy not exist in the country specially towards kurdish nation,

Until yesterday turkey was kissing USA ass until USA realized of turkey s 2 faces,
now lets talk about PKK we are not forgot that in the establishment of PKK many turkish people were involved with it in the leadership of pkk, so turks and kurds side by side of each other brought pkk,
it was no choice for kurds left,so making an reble army was the last option, as kurds many times put an peaceful agenda on the turkih government table, but they gtot answer by shooting them on the head, yes if you are talking about peace in turkey you get shoot, or get prison or some how you get punish as you are guilty.
some people are here that some children were killed in this war, but do you know how many kurdish children were killed,and do you know kurdish children still don’t have school to study,with no support,with out job, house, parents,etc all because of tyrant turkish government towards kurds,

i personally been in pkk s comp in northen iraq as a european student, and they are must educated people in entire turkey, they are freedom fighters.
turkey need a lot of change,and they need to improve a real democracy which not exist in turkey at the moment, to finally join the EU as they are dreaming about it,

What you should also remember is around 2-2.5 million Turks perished in the First World War, many massacred by Armenian forces. It was a horrendous time for ALL people in the area.

Let me guess; so the next thing you will do is deny the Armenian genocide as well. Did you know that in several countries that is considered a crime?

Please read Goran’s comment again.

As Goran also implied your comments are nothing but nauseating, and you have done nothing but put words in people’s mouths and assume that they support the PKK when every single person who clearly disagreed with you also visibly condemned the PKK for their actions, I even linked an entire thread that revolved around that. You have also not proven any of your accusations of us being supporters of terrorism, merely for believing in basic Kurdish human rights, a typically obvious tactic of Turkish propoganda. The most recent comment of yours, which will not appear for the same reasons as Kawthar already described, is you yet again resorting to pitiful personal attacks that are not uncommon for abusive people of your ilk.

Goodbye SAS. You have been given many chances already to be respectful and understanding in your arguments, but the moderated comments have already shown your true and bigoted personality which is completely incompatible with this site’s guidelines. Thanks for sharing your opinion within thread, all of which did appear, but no thanks for your abusive and childish behavior, none of which will appear as they entirely break the rules of this platform. No one here has time for your reckless attitude. Come back when you’re an adult.

What you should know is the source is globalpolitician – a vehemently anti Muslim site that routinely publishes articles defaming and slandering Muslims and vilifying the Islamic religion.

Seriously? This is the best that you can do?

The source you provided is directly affiliated with the U.S government, whom I’m sure don’t have their interests at stake for publishing these stories (note the sarcasm.) So what’s your point? It’s the information that’s valuable here, forget the interpretation of the facts. You should also realize that the quote I provided is actually recycled from other sources. Disprove what it says, if you can. Throughout the entire thread you actually didn’t disprove anything and frankly all of this has been a waste of time. I’ll give you one more chance to actually prove your arguments to be worthwile, instead of consistent denials and justification of Turkish abuse.

Moral, it seems however, has never played a role in the Turkish politics. Through its defamatory policy of denial, Turkey has not only ignored all rules of decent behavior but also the very history of the genocide. In doing this, they are merely being consequent to the historical policies of the rulers responsible for this crime. Back then it was no different: “…Once the gendarmes had killed a number of Armenians, Faiz El-Ghussein – the former chief district administrator of Mamuret ul-Aziz (today: Elazig) – reported, they put turbans on the corpses and fetched Kurdish women who cried and wailed over the dead, having been told that the Armenians had killed their people. Then they got a photographer to take photographs of the scene. It all then served as proof of the alleged Armenian atrocities.”(Rolf Hosffeld: Operation Nemesis, Die Türkei, Deutschland und der Völkermord an den Armeniern/Operation Nemesis, Turkey, Germany and the Armenian Genocide.)

What you should know is the source is globalpolitician – a vehemently anti Muslim site that routinely publishes articles defaming and slandering Muslims and vilifying the Islamic religion.

What you should also remember is around 2-2.5 million Turks perished in the First World War, many massacred by Armenian forces. It was a horrendous time for ALL people in the area.

And it has already been well established by now that they turn violent directly because of Turkish police who fire at Kurds. Didn’t you read the comments above? Your article isn’t proof, if anything it just contradicts what you’re saying.

Now it’s your turn to prove how Kurds are violent during Newroz

With pleasure –

https://www.osac.gov/Reports/report.cfm?contentID=65009

Note –

The Nevruz holiday falls on March 21 this year and it is often accompanied by PKK-related protests, which have the potential to turn violent. Some Nevruz observations may take place the preceding weekend.

Anyway, if the PKK is such a good organization in your view, how can you condemn the Turkish military for doing business with it ? Ha !

Can you please quote anyone within this thread who is pro-PKK. Show me a single comment that even remotely suggests that the PKK is a “good organization.”

Inonu didn’t see himself as a KURD, but as a NATIONALIST TURK.

He was a Kurd who saw himself as a Turk and did very well. Kind of proves my point.

Now it’s your turn to prove how Kurds are violent during Newroz.

It’s funny that you link to that story, considering the fact that the 2 dead are Kurdish civilians, as are 90% of those severely wounded.

The dead and wounding were

RIOTING

– try going on a rampage in some European city and see if they treat you with velvet gloves !

Documents seized in a police raid on the house of an executive of a TV station as part of the ongoing Ergenekon operation have revealed that a secret and illicit military intelligence unit known as JİTEM was engaged in several illegal acts, including drug and human smuggling and arms trade with the outlawed Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK).

OK, let me get this straight. A few criminal elements within the Turkish establishment co-operate with the terrorists and are now being prosecuted to the full extent of the law. How can the Turkish authorities be accused of creating the PKK when they do not even spare their own for co-operating with it.
Anyway, if the PKK is such a good organization in your view, how can you condemn the Turkish military for doing business with it ? Ha !

Moral, it seems however, has never played a role in the Turkish politics. Through its defamatory policy of denial, Turkey has not only ignored all rules of decent behavior but also the very history of the genocide. In doing this, they are merely being consequent to the historical policies of the rulers responsible for this crime. Back then it was no different: “…Once the gendarmes had killed a number of Armenians, Faiz El-Ghussein – the former chief district administrator of Mamuret ul-Aziz (today: Elazig) – reported, they put turbans on the corpses and fetched Kurdish women who cried and wailed over the dead, having been told that the Armenians had killed their people. Then they got a photographer to take photographs of the scene. It all then served as proof of the alleged Armenian atrocities.”(Rolf Hosffeld: Operation Nemesis, Die Türkei, Deutschland und der Völkermord an den Armeniern/Operation Nemesis, Turkey, Germany and the Armenian Genocide.)

Full article.
You have made the claim several times that Kurdish as a language is perfectly acceptable in Turkey, another incorrect and ill-informed assumption. You should be aware of the following:

Municipal officials in the southeast of the country are still frequently prosecuted if they use Kurdish in an official communication.

And don’t ask why the PKK do what they do; as inexcusable as it is, prosectuion always results in violence. If you want to stop the violence, stop the prosecution! Until when do you expect Kurds to suffer from this intolerable humiliation?

Perhaps most bewildering is that the Turkish authorities do not appear to understand that the often draconian suppression of Kurdish language and culture can be counterproductive; inviting ridicule and opprobrium abroad and serving as a gift for organizations such as the PKK, which use it as a recruiting tool and a justification for their campaigns of violence. There can be no doubt that the judicial persecution of children for singing a song has made a greater contribution to PKK propaganda than the song itself could have ever done.

Full article.

There is plenty of coverage on how Turkish police abused innocent Kurds, not all of whom support the PKK as I have consistently stated throughout this thread and with associated articles. Now it’s your turn to prove how Kurds are violent during Newroz. Make your argument slightly more compelling by actually using footage this time.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0829/p10s01-woeu.html

http://www.voanews.com/english/2008-08-11-voa11.cfm

http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=150630&bolum=101

http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=150630&bolum=101

Sorry, I do not have access to footage but these links make it abundantly clear the PKK is continuing to attack the Turks. They have a right to defend themselves.

You use the word “routinely,” in caps and bold even (because that makes it more convincing) when essentially you are linking to a single incident where Kurds are still victims of police abuse. Maybe you should read this article, and try to admit the faults of your Turkish friends:

March 22nd, 2008: A Turkish security squad ruthlessly breaks the right arm of Cuneyt Ertuş- a 15 year-old Kurdish boy. Cuneyt’s father was looking for him for two days until he saw his son’s arm being broken on Roj TV, the Kurdish Satellite TV banned by Turkey. Now Cuneyt is in jail for resisting arrest! So far it is not known if he is even receiving basic medical aid.

See how Turkish army & masked police terrorize & repeatedly beat everyone, including innocent children & women dressed colorfully to celebrate their Newroz- the weekend of 21 March.

Oh, those 15 year old boys, those elderly women and children, such extremists!

Do you really expect the Turkish police to sit back and do nothing while the demonstrators use violence and create havoc?

There is plenty of coverage on how Turkish police abused innocent Kurds, not all of whom support the PKK as I have consistently stated throughout this thread and with associated articles. Now it’s your turn to prove how Kurds are violent during Newroz. Make your argument slightly more compelling by actually using footage this time.

http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=152525

I think your comments summed it up when you said Turkey banned Newroz when “they [the Kurds] tend to get violent and Kurdish extremists hijack what is supposed to be a peaceful celebration into a rowdy and violent brawl, vandalizing property and attacking police”. There was no violence initiated until the celebrations last Newroz were greeted with the Turkish regime’s supervised beatings of women and children and those killed and allowed the perpetrators of these crimes to walk free.

Kurdish extremists ROUTINELY abuse Nevruz celebrations as an excuse for going on an orgy of violence and vandalism, trashing public property, attacking cars and making a nuisance of themselves. Look at the following examples if you do not believe me –

http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=137089

Do you really expect the Turkish police to sit back and do nothing while the demonstrators use violence and create havoc ?

Considering the type of denial that you are attempting to spread, while Esra’a responds to you with documented proof, I am surprised all your baseless comments were not deleted.

SAS, have you ever heard of Newton’s Third Law of Motion? If you had some creativity, you could apply it to what happens in Turkey and perhaps help fix the problems in Turkey rather than trying to justify the problems. To every action there is always opposed an equal reaction. Hardly anywhere in the world are there rebellious actions that were not the result of punitive and unjust state actions against the very people rebelling.

I think your comments summed it up when you said Turkey banned Newroz when “they [the Kurds] tend to get violent and Kurdish extremists hijack what is supposed to be a peaceful celebration into a rowdy and violent brawl, vandalizing property and attacking police”. There was no violence initiated until the celebrations last Newroz were greeted with the Turkish regime’s supervised beatings of women and children and those killed and allowed the perpetrators of these crimes to walk free.

As I mentioned I am not Turkish but I will defend Turkey if I feel it has been made the target of hateful accusations which do not reflect the realities of today.

Anyway, I do not recall attacking anyone, only stating facts.

It is common for comments to be mistakenly marked as spam, which is what happened in your case. Moderators check the list regularly and ensure all legitimate comments are de-spammed. Be patient; we do not censor views unless it is warranted.

I beseech everyone to remain respectful and shy away from personal and derogatory attacks. Accept that there will be others who view events differently, and respect their right to hold different opinions.

This thread is a wonderful opportunity to engage in dialogue and understand each other. However, if the level of discussion deteriorates, we’ll be forced to close the thread.