Comments on: What do Iraqi Kurds' think of Turkey?

By: deyary

deyary — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 13:23:56 +0000

Turkish people are very nice people some of my best friends are Turks but their education thought them that Kurds are their enemies, the educated turks know this is not true and are friendly with Kurds but most turks especially those who live in Turkey still donot know the truth..this new government’s Kurdish inititive is a step towards a right direction..yes for Kurdish Turkish friendly relation based on common interest and respect to each others culture,.,but no for forcefull assimilation..

By: Esra'a (Bahrain)

Esra'a (Bahrain) — Sat, 01 Nov 2008 11:11:40 +0000

If these ridiculous lies is the nonsense that Turkey has to put up with, my admiration for their restraint grows even more.

If these ridiculous claims is the nonsense that Kurds have had to deal with for decades, my admiration for their patience grows even more.

I suggest if these constant attacks had been on the US border, and if the administrators of the source territory had been so provocative in their reactions – the Qandil mountain would today be the Qandil valley, US troops would be in occupation of North Iraq

Much to your dismay, US troops are already too busy destroying the rest of Iraq for no apparent reason, the result of which thousands of innocent civilians are dead. I’m sure that with your logic this too is perfectly “legal” and “moral” despite international outrage and overwhelming amount of condemnation. Many are also stating that it’s illegal, so you don’t have to portray the USA in such a heroic light when it’s not exactly a champion of legal and moral wars and abuse (Gitmo? Abu Ghraib? Please!)

My prayers are with the Kurds for having to deal with this BS and justification of abuse/oppression. And don’t you equate the PKK with the rest of Kurds. Anything the PKK does is a responsibility of just the PKK, and no one else should suffer as a result of their actions, and certainly no one should use their actions to further justify the oppression of the Kurdish minority in Turkey. The PKK doesn’t represent a huge number of Kurds whose only wish is to be respected within Turkey, and currenty they are not. You can deny that; but every Kurd in Turkey will factually state otherwise.

And, seriously, let’s not make this about the USA. This is about Turkey and the Kurds within it. I see no reason why we shouldn’t keep it that way and brag about the US in a way that will make the rest of this thread completely irrelevant.

By: Lee

Lee — Sat, 01 Nov 2008 11:04:31 +0000

“but Turkey still considered as a monster state by most Kurds. especially after seeing Turkish agression against Kurdish civilian during decenmber 07 during the Turkey’s invasion in the name of fighting PKK.”

If these ridiculous lies is the nonsense that Turkey has to put up with, my admiration for their restraint grows even more.

The operation in December 2007 was carried out against PKK enclaves deep in the Qandil mountains where there are no civilian residencies whatsoever. And this was after enduring years of daily attacks on their civilians and military.

The Iraqi Kurd (Talabani’s) response to take responsibility for terrorist actions being launched from their territory was “We will not even hand over a Kurdish cat.”

I suggest if these constant attacks had been on the US border, and if the administrators of the source territory had been so provocative in their reactions – the Qandil mountain would today be the Qandil valley, US troops would be in occupation of North Iraq having obliterated not only the PKK but the Kurdish adminisration who hosted them (just as the Taliban was dealt with re Al Qaida) – moreover, the US in this hypothetical scenario would have been fully within its moral and legal rights to have done so.

And so would Turkey.

And if the best argument against these is to concoct fairytales about anti-civilian campaigns in December 2007 that did not happen, I suggest you know it too.

By: zirek

zirek — Fri, 10 Oct 2008 02:51:43 +0000

i am a kurd and i don;t like wat pkk and turkey are doing areing we muslims. muslims killing muslims that is no good at all thats all i wont to say

By: Wladimir

Wladimir — Thu, 25 Sep 2008 09:09:47 +0000

@Meast: interesting point of view. Only one thing. About point 8. The PKK didn’t want to have a civil war. They were afraid that ‘people resistance’ would go out of hand and that they would lose control. While in Northern-Iraq KDP and PUK lost control of the ‘uprising’ and later took over control.

By: Meast

Meast — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 23:15:06 +0000

All idiotic nationalistic crap as to this point.
The social facts are as follows:
1) Being from another race doesn’t make people crazy here because there are more than 30 ethnicities in Turkey
2) The main problem is not the pressure on the Kurds. Actually Turkey is evolving for the last 200 years. Speaking the 20th century it was not just the Kurds who were under pressure. It was the times of cold war and the times of state nationalism which created a system putting the state at the centre not the individual. That is also the main reason why the majority of the Turkish population (including the Kurds) want to join the EU. Because the society evolves at an incredible speed and want more individual liberties. Speaking Kurdish is also one of them.
What is true that the bureocrasy is following from quite behind and still putting the state in front of the individuals.
3) 100 years ago almost % 90 percent of the population was living in the villages, Today this percentage is only % 35. At it is rapidly declining. This creates an extreme pressure on the society beginning with the Kurds, who
were mainly living in small villages.
4) In Turkey there are almost 3 million interracial marriages between the Kurds and all other ethnic groups mainly Turks.
5) Kurdish was not spoken widely in the public because it is actually evolving to an urban language lately, with the flock of Kurdish population to the cities. The last 20 years showed a great change on this issue.
6) Another problem with Kurdish population is their own modernization process. In the past the Feudal Lords could be seen any where in Turkey. But in the 20th century other ethnic origins became urbanized and the feudal lords system finished. But in Kurdish regions late modernization caused this local powers to continue to live. Still Kurdish regions are considered to be more conservative on most of the issues with modernization which they are still a bit back from the mainstream modernization that tooks place. Ironically in that sense a PKK, imitating Souther American Communist guerilla tactics and the ideology of Kurdish racism is something a lot more modern than the old feudal system.
7) PKK was born in the mids of civil war between the leftists and the rightists during the 60s and 70s. Although society had paid a lot for this clash (more than 5.000 civil casualties during the civil fightings)and learned their lessons. PKK as a leftist group, became a racist group and carried on the same guerilla tactics, finding its place in the shades of the fault lines created by the modernization and urbanization process especially in the villages. Despite the 30 year of fighting with the terrorists, it did not turned into a civil war between the Kurds and the Turks. Think about Iraq after Saddam where all the ethnic and religious groups are mass murdering each other.
9) Ironically the Turkish and Kurdish racists and extremists are now on the same side, grouped to make this meaningless bloodshed to continue. It is discussed if they have joint operations to stage some incidents. Because if the fighting ends a lot of war lords will loose many things including the drug trade.
10) Main problems with Kurdish identity is the language which will be solved no more later than a few years time. All other Kurdish culture is quite similiar to the Turkish ones. Actually most of the Kurdish and Turkish population are also Sunnis which mean they share exactly same religious practices.
11) Kurdish villages are not the only poor ones. You can see the same extremely poor villages just 50 kms out of the capital Ankara. The truth is that the country is reaching its full speed in economics and culture and preparing for a jump, where at last the whole population will enjoy and get more.
As a last word, most of the Turkish people accepts the Kurdish people as their brothers and vice versa. With the help of more communication and more Kurdish resemblence in the public and with the propulsion of new economic growth all the tensions will calm down. Extreme racism on both hands (Kurdish or Turkish) is living its final days here. And do you know why? Because we had hundreds of years of multinational experience on making different societies enjoy freedom in one system which means this society has the right dynamics to gather the spelled things into order in its roots.

By: JANATA QUAY

JANATA QUAY — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 04:57:53 +0000

for long time turkish government abusing Kurd, so kurds have been discriminated by turkish people and the government, as even before 1992 simple think as speaking kurdish language was a crime by turkish law, more than 2000 villages were destroyed by turkish army because of military operation in the kurdish region, many as 1000s kurdish people were killed,executed,been prison for long term, including children and women as well as older even disabilitys,
also 1000s people had for flee or scape from their own home land because they been force by turkish government or some of them their life became danger because of some basic human or civilian activity.
the result of occupation by turkish dictator government many kurdish people last their life, their home, their jobs, house etc,

today turkey kissing EU s ass to let them to join the EU while the entire country has smell of murder ,dictatorship,corruption, discrimination, unjustice law, human right abuses, torturing, finally democracy not exist in the country specially towards kurdish nation,

Until yesterday turkey was kissing USA ass until USA realized of turkey s 2 faces,
now lets talk about PKK we are not forgot that in the establishment of PKK many turkish people were involved with it in the leadership of pkk, so turks and kurds side by side of each other brought pkk,
it was no choice for kurds left,so making an reble army was the last option, as kurds many times put an peaceful agenda on the turkih government table, but they gtot answer by shooting them on the head, yes if you are talking about peace in turkey you get shoot, or get prison or some how you get punish as you are guilty.
some people are here that some children were killed in this war, but do you know how many kurdish children were killed,and do you know kurdish children still don’t have school to study,with no support,with out job, house, parents,etc all because of tyrant turkish government towards kurds,

i personally been in pkk s comp in northen iraq as a european student, and they are must educated people in entire turkey, they are freedom fighters.
turkey need a lot of change,and they need to improve a real democracy which not exist in turkey at the moment, to finally join the EU as they are dreaming about it,

By: Esra'a (Bahrain)

Esra'a (Bahrain) — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 21:21:18 +0000

What you should also remember is around 2-2.5 million Turks perished in the First World War, many massacred by Armenian forces. It was a horrendous time for ALL people in the area.

Let me guess; so the next thing you will do is deny the Armenian genocide as well. Did you know that in several countries that is considered a crime? Please read Goran's comment again. As Goran also implied your comments are nothing but nauseating, and you have done nothing but put words in people's mouths and assume that they support the PKK when every single person who clearly disagreed with you also visibly condemned the PKK for their actions, I even linked an entire thread that revolved around that. You have also not proven any of your accusations of us being supporters of terrorism, merely for believing in basic Kurdish human rights, a typically obvious tactic of Turkish propoganda. The most recent comment of yours, which will not appear for the same reasons as Kawthar already described, is you yet again resorting to pitiful personal attacks that are not uncommon for abusive people of your ilk. Goodbye SAS. You have been given many chances already to be respectful and understanding in your arguments, but the moderated comments have already shown your true and bigoted personality which is completely incompatible with this site's guidelines. Thanks for sharing your opinion within thread, all of which did appear, but no thanks for your abusive and childish behavior, none of which will appear as they entirely break the rules of this platform. No one here has time for your reckless attitude. Come back when you're an adult.

By: Esra'a (Bahrain)

Esra'a (Bahrain) — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 21:18:25 +0000

What you should know is the source is globalpolitician – a vehemently anti Muslim site that routinely publishes articles defaming and slandering Muslims and vilifying the Islamic religion.

Seriously? This is the best that you can do?

The source you provided is directly affiliated with the U.S government, whom I’m sure don’t have their interests at stake for publishing these stories (note the sarcasm.) So what’s your point? It’s the information that’s valuable here, forget the interpretation of the facts. You should also realize that the quote I provided is actually recycled from other sources. Disprove what it says, if you can. Throughout the entire thread you actually didn’t disprove anything and frankly all of this has been a waste of time. I’ll give you one more chance to actually prove your arguments to be worthwile, instead of consistent denials and justification of Turkish abuse.

By: SAS

SAS — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 21:13:56 +0000

Moral, it seems however, has never played a role in the Turkish politics. Through its defamatory policy of denial, Turkey has not only ignored all rules of decent behavior but also the very history of the genocide. In doing this, they are merely being consequent to the historical policies of the rulers responsible for this crime. Back then it was no different: “…Once the gendarmes had killed a number of Armenians, Faiz El-Ghussein – the former chief district administrator of Mamuret ul-Aziz (today: Elazig) – reported, they put turbans on the corpses and fetched Kurdish women who cried and wailed over the dead, having been told that the Armenians had killed their people. Then they got a photographer to take photographs of the scene. It all then served as proof of the alleged Armenian atrocities.”(Rolf Hosffeld: Operation Nemesis, Die Türkei, Deutschland und der Völkermord an den Armeniern/Operation Nemesis, Turkey, Germany and the Armenian Genocide.)

What you should know is the source is globalpolitician – a vehemently anti Muslim site that routinely publishes articles defaming and slandering Muslims and vilifying the Islamic religion.

What you should also remember is around 2-2.5 million Turks perished in the First World War, many massacred by Armenian forces. It was a horrendous time for ALL people in the area.