Salam

What happened when Israel evacuated Gaza? What happened every time she made ‘good faith’ concessions? …I doubt that we can ever completely extinguish the predatory instinct…Certainly that goal can not be achieved while intra species predation bears the Almighty Creator’s seal of approval.

Dajjal, you bring up some good points, certainly deserving of some attention. There is no question that the cards are stacked against us as we try to sell a Vision of Hope. For example, the notion that “God is on our side,” certainly doesn’t help any, especially if both sides come to believe it. The fact that there are strong equities, and issues of justice, on both sides, doesn’t help, as well. The fact that there is greed and corruption on both sides does not help. The fact that both sides have come to represent forces beyond themselves, is also an obstacle. Israel, for example, is fighting for the survival of the Jewish people. Palestine is coming to represent the dignity and honor of the Arab world. And the fact that the military solution often seem easier than any other solution, is also a problem for both sides.

But here is the thing, eventually, both sides may come to conclusion that a deal must be cut, and that a deal is in their best interest, long term. In a way, you can look at the Israeli/Palestinian conflict as a paradigm for all sorts of conflicts worldwide. Many of the same obstacles pertain to other issues around the world. Take Global Warming, as an example. There are literally trillions of dollars invested in a system based on fossil fuels. These dollars are invested in the status quo. And many people worship the all mighty dollar as if it were God. What will it take to transform all that investment so that it becomes eco-friendly? Do you think it will take any less determination than solving the Israel/Palestine issue?

We have brought ourselves, as a species, to the point where there is no choice but to make sense of our lives. You are right to say that current ideological perspectives with respect to God, are troublesome. So? Change how you think about God. Change what you believe about Him. If your interpretation of the Almighty encourages you to kill innocents, then guess what, you’re off the mark. You have misinterpreted His intentions. There is plenty of evidence to suggest that God wants us to live, and to be kind to one another. That’s how we made it for some two million years, and that’s the only way we’re going to make it for the next two hundred years, let alone two million years. How do I know this? Well, I studied about the cavemen, but also because it makes sense, that’s how. And in the final analysis, that’s what He gave us to sort out the vagaries of our precarious existence on this good earth.

Now Israel has made concessions, it’s true. And so far, those concessions have not yielded peace. But I submit to you, Dajjal, that Israel’s concessions fall far short of her ability to make something happen with respect to peace. What Israel, and the Western World for that matter, has to do, is to create new economic and ideological realities on the ground which speak louder than words. Business, and good paying jobs, will create their own ideological imperatives. As people begin to improve their ilves, their sense of the ideological will change, especially if a change in economic reality is accompanied by all the other elements of Selling a Vision of Hope, including: a new ideological framework, speaking to one another with dignity, investing in one another, protecting the earth, neutralizing extremism, selling one another on hope, sustaining the hope with public diplomacy, and fighting against the forces of extremism, but within a new context, within a vision of hope.

Can it honestly be said, Dajjal, that Israel, or the U.S., or any other nation has even come close to Selling a Vision of Hope? My answer is no. Pulling out of Gaza is not enough, not even close. Considering the history here, and the symbolic aspects of this conflict, we will have to go way the hell out of our comfort zone to effectuate substantive change. And a lot of what we have to do can be done even without a final peace deal.

And just as we have to solve this conflict, something seemingly beyond the realm of possibility, so too will we have to solve some big ass problems like Global Warming, Ideological Extremism, and the Economic meltdown. I do believe in God. I think He’s giving us clues as to His gameplan here. He’s basically saying: “Look, you’ve all created this mess, now do something about it. I know it’s hard, perhaps close to impossible, but that’s the game we’re in, and I’ll do what I can to help, but most of the help I’ve given you already; the ability to think straight, and to do something about it.”

So I can appreciate your reluctance. But I see no reasonable choice but to try. Our fate is sealed if we don’t, so we might as well give it a shot, and see what happens.

In my country, we choose the men who run our government by elections. Every registered voter has one and only one vote for each office. While the number of candidates varies, in many cases there are more than two.

My vote determines nothing unless the plurality votes for the same candidates I select. My state will go for Obama; I will write in Alan Keyes, since I refuse to vote for a Socialist or a liar. My vote for President will have no effect.

The rare Gazan pacifist who wishes only to raise his children in peace and prosperity & live to see his grandchildren prosper, has no effective input in a society where the majority seeks the genocidal policide of their neighbor. If he seeks to resist their efforts, he will lose his life in the conflict because his opponents are armed and dangerous but he is not.

Nissim, what happened when Israel turned over administrative authority over 95% of the territories to Arafat? Did his flock take hope? Did they act hopefully? Yes, they hoped that Israel was so weak that she could be easily knocked over with a hail of stones. They continued to support corrupt & power mad dictatorship which shared their lust for Jewish blood.

What happened when Israel evacuated Gaza? What happened every time she made ‘good faith’ concessions?

To this observer, it seems that Israel is as stupid as Charley Brown, who perennially hands Lucy the ball hoping against objective fact that she will steady it instead of snatching it away as his toe approaches.

I doubt that we can ever completely extinguish the predatory instinct. At best we can suppress it or redirect it against other species. Certainly that goal can not be achieved while intra species predation bears the Almighty Creator’s seal of approval.

Today a woman demands to be stoned to death for adultery, so 50 men do it.

All I can say to that, Straliangirl, is: Poor woman, and poor women, and poor men, who may have thought, as they reached for the stones, that they heard the voice of God, but who listened to their own demons instead.

Enrich the Palestinians, and Israel will have better armed enemies, not friendly neighbors.

That is the risk, Dajjal, but considering where we’re at, it may be a risk worth taking. I have no doubt that there are some Palestinians who want to destroy Israel. But I also have no doubt that the vast majority of Palestinians are good people, who want a life, and who would make that choice if it were put on the table. Once you become inspired with a sense of hope, and once you restore your sense of dignity, and once you can a earn a decent living, and live a reasonably normal life, then to that extent, you are less likely to succumb to extremist thinking. That, at least, is the case with the vast majority of people.

Even if such an outcome were to occur, there would still be extremists lurking in the midst, ready to pounce, and to wreak havoc wherever possible. These people will have to be fought, but by investing in the common man, you will have credibility in the fight that lies ahead, and you may be able to recuit his help in the process. When you have nothing to lose, you can easily be manipulated to partake of some very unsavory things. But when you have a life, and the hope that things will get better, then it becomes much more difficult to recruit you for martyrdom. I wonder sometimes; what if a suicide bombing was scheduled, and no one showed up?

…perhaps God will have a collective or random way of scaring people?

Elinor, I don’t think God sets out to scare people, or even to punish them. He operates a bit differently. He is like an artist on a rampage, with every brush stroke containing billions of heavenly bodies. But despite the wonder of it all, He still creates the universe in accordance with certain common sense principles, gives people a certain measure of choice, and then allows things to play out. God is more than prepared to take as much risk as is needed. If people choose Holocaust, He says, “Go ahead, see how that works out for you.” If people choose Global Warming, He says, “OK, go for it, let’s see how this works out.” It’s not that He wants to punish us. But for us to be like Him, and I think we are, we had to be created with the power not only to succeed, but to fail as well.

But to make it fair, He created us in His image, and therefore, like Him, we too are creators, and we can create the world as we see fit. If we want this world to become a living hell, God will not stand in our way. But if we choose instead to create a heaven on earth, He has given us the wherewithall to do that, and the common sense to do it right. It’s our choice. It always has been. And everything we know and love hangs in the balance.