Should we question Obama, or Israel?
I have a hard time believing that every single U.S President is sincerely passionate about Israel to the point of putting the country’s interests ahead of its own.
This entire region continues to boom with support for Obama, and I wouldn’t call it blind support. I would call it hope, something we have been lacking for decades.
We supported and rooted for Obama not because we are experts of Obama’s policies or the future ahead. But because he voiced his criticism over the war in Iraq, U.S foreign policy, and Bush’s failed leadership. And that was enough for us to be optimistic and hopeful about what the future can bring for the Middle East. McCain and his running mate spent their time preaching the opposite, focusing too much on the “war on terror,” of which this region is still suffering from. Are we happy to see such war-mongering individuals not win the most powerful positions in the world? I see no reason why we shouldn’t be.
Moreoever, I feel that Obama has specific support from many of us Muslims because we all sympathized and understood how it feels like to be accused of being a “Muslim” who obsesses about the destruction of Israel, something you would have read about in many right-wing American or staunchly, overwhelmingly Zionist blogs in Israel. Now he is being accused by some Arabs of being too much of a Zionist, questioning Arab support for Obama and calling his supporters naive, sometimes outright stupid, claiming it would make no difference whether he or McCain would be President, because “America will always be America,” and that he’s already selling out to Israel and staffing his administration with ardent Zionists. And the question lies there, not with Obama’s intentions. I don’t think he is yet another face of “Evil” who would thrive on immoral, self-serving attacks in the Middle East. The question we should all ask is why AIPAC has such a prominent influence within the U.S government, and why their policies and ideologies are treated like the Bible in American politics.
I don’t think it’s a coincidence that every U.S President has unquestionable support for Israel, a country that has yet to be criticized by any candidates throughout the entire campaign. Criticism of Israel in the USA is political suicide. Our issue should be there, this is a fear that we must explore, and if Obama can’t help us through that, no one can.
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This was to be expected, everyone here was shocked and offended by his AIPAC speech. Obama’s administration will offer nothing for Palestine, but at least we will not be expecting attacks on other Middle Eastern countries in this pathetic war on terror, which is why he had my support. Obama is president by name, just like Bush was, the control room is in the hands of others, namely Jewish and pro-Israel politicians (or ex-militants/IDF soldiers as the case seems to be.) That doesn’t mean no one had the right to be hopeful. You can see the passion of this young Gazan man and his hope for change.
Sure. The Jews control everything…
Esra’a, I can understand your skepticism when it comes to Israel, and actually, I think that both Israel and Palestinians could have done a hell of a lot more to further the cause of peace. However, you may be making an assumption here which misses the point.
It is true, as you suggest, that many Americans, Jews and non-Jews alike, and some in leadership positions, do identify with Israel, and are even passionate about its survival. Why is that? Is it totally irational? For Jews, the survival of Israel is very much related to the survival of the Jewish people. The thinking goes that without Israel, the Jewish people would have dim prospects at best, as born out by a long history of persecution.
For non-Jewish Americans, and even perhaps for some of the Presidents, Israel is one of the few countries in the region, with all her faults, and there are quite a few, that exemplifies values which Americans can relate to. Israel is seen as one of the few friends that America has in the Middle East. And 9/11 only solidified that relationship in the minds of many, because both countries could relate to the struggle against terrorism.
Having said that, I do believe that Obama will take a stronger position with regard to peace in the Middle East. He will probably push both sides toward a deal. And if Tsippi Livni becomes prime minister, I think that there will be greater co-operation on the Israeli side. In fact, I think that a tentative peace agreement has already been worked out between Livni and Abbas, but the agreement has been tabled because of the difficulty of implementing it now.
But even as we criticize Israel, which some criticism is warranted, we have to look at both sides of the equation. The fact that Hamas and Fatah are at each other’s throats, is not helping any. In a way, the struggle between the two factions can be seen as a struggle for the soul of Palestine. Palestinians will have to decide what they want to buy into. If they choose peace, then I can assure you that leaders like Abbas, and Livny, and Obama, will make that happen, because it is in everyone’s best interest, regardless of where their passions may lie. But if they choose martyrdom, and strife, and intolerance, and destruction, as are exemplified by Hamas, and Hizbullah, then it will be very difficult to broker a deal, even with the best of intentions of the leadership.
I think, Murad, that this idea is too simplistic. Yes, there are Jews in government and non-government positions who sympathize with Israel. And yes, they are often able to sell their views to the leaders in charge. And yes, AIPAC is effective in lobbying Congress on behalf of legislation which is favorable to Israel. But ask yourself one question, why is it that non-Jewish Americans are willing to listen? Is it just because they are blind to such manipulation? Or is it rather because they are willing to be sold because Israel has come to mean something important for them, even though they may not agree with every Israeli policy?
I think that the second exlanation is more likely true. And the reason it’s important to talk about this is because I really do believe that there is hope for moving forward. But such hope is often thwarted when we become too skeptical of other people’s intentions.
Was that supposed to be hilarious? Because so many of us are getting so sick of this tired tactic.
It’s not funny anymore, and it’s not a useful way to shut people up. We have concerns. They are legitimate and factual. We want them addressed.
Please, grow up.
At the expense of whom? For the most part, innocent Arabs.
I find it alarming that people defend Israeli politics claiming that it’s crucial for “Jews to exist”, despite the fact that Israelis themselves are increasingly noticing and condemning the war crimes committed so proudly by Israel. Do you understand the irony of your statement at all?
This is not about Jews. This is about corruption within the Israeli government, and its unquestionable romantic relationship with the White House. Your failure to distinguish the difference means you’re ultimately misunderstanding the severity of this relationship and what it means for the rest of the Middle East, as we have already and extensively discussed before. You constantly praise Israel, stating on several occassions that Israel is not racist and treats Arabs with nothing but fairness, even though Israeli Arabs claim otherwise (historically and factually, I gave you many links to these reports before) and there are several organizations fighting for their rights, which are openly abused by the Israeli government.
I’m sorry, there is no argument in your comment, and I don’t buy the justification that war crimes must be committed for Jews to continue to exist, an idea that today offends many Jewish peace activists. This is not about Jews, this is corrupt politics and outright racism, and many Jews in America and the USA will tell you exactly that. How many Israelis on this very blog are sick of their government? How many of them have written about years of abuse and racism that they have personally witnessed? How many young people in Israel refuse to serve in the IDF because of this corruption?
I will actually publish a podcast tomorrow with an Israeli historian who will challenge a lot of what you’ve said. And since he’s not Muslim or Arab, no one can actually get away by calling him anti-Semitic; he is Jewish and Israeli and proud. People should stop questioning other people’s faith and patriotism whenever they question Israel and putting corrupt and failed ideologies ahead of their decent and sincere values.
We have a right to ask questions and criticize America and its weird adoration for Israel. None of this criticism is based on hatred as many of you are consistently trying to claim.
Anyways, the fact of the matter is that questioning Israel even within the U.S government is being treated like a crime, why is it so unacceptable to criticize Israeli policies and its military tactics? How can this not concern us? It raises concerns even for free speech amongst U.S politicians. I never saw this amount of sensitive censorship over anything else but U.S relations with Israel, it’s outrageous, and yes, we’re scared. And how much power does AIPAC have over the mainstream media?
I am sorry if I came off as rude Madmax, but the sarcasm was a bit offensive. It’s kind of like if you were criticizing a suicide bomber and we said “yeah whatever, Muslims are violent pigs right?” wouldn’t you feel a bit violated, like you can’t even express an opinion without anyone assuming that you feel that way?
OK. Here lies the issue. If you say that some of Israel’s policies are unjust, I would agree. If you say that Israel could be much more proactive when it comes to the peace process, I would agree. If you say that there have been injustices perpetrated against the Palestinians people, I would agree. And in fact, we could probably agree on a great deal, if we sat down and talked facts, and talked about how to move the peace process forward.
But it’s the second part of your statement that is at the heart of the problem. The fact is that many Israelis are very wary of Arab intentions with regard to the survival of Israel, as a Jewish state, and as a homeland for the Jewish people. Now you could say that such fears are irrational. But a great deal of history gives credence to such fears.
Before the War of Independence, Ben Gurion agreed to the U.N. proposal for partitioning the land. The Arab response was a full scale invasion by 5 Arab countries. Before the War of 1967, Nasser made it clear that his intention was to destroy the State of Israel. In the year 2000, Barack and Clinton put a proposal on the table that gave Arafat most of what he asked for. His answer was the second Intifada. And today, organizations like Hamas and Hizbullah are not at all subtle in saying that they would like nothing more than to destroy Israel. And these organizations are supported by Iran, which is likely developing nuclear weapons, and which has stated that wiping Israel off the map would indeed be appropriate.
So Esra’a, I believe you when you say that you are motiviated by a sense of justice, and not a sense of hate. But can you honestly say that Israel has nothing to fear? And wouldn’t you agree that there are those who do hate, and who would do everything in their power to torpedo any peace deal that is reached? And don’t you think that the perception of such hatred would cause anyone, not just Israel, to behave in ways that are not always fair or just?
I happen to believe that we can make progress despite all these obstacles. I also believe that we can begin to make substantive change without a final peace deal. But I don’t think we can honestly gloss over the fact that there is hatred out there, and that the hate will not be appeased. I also think that in the face of such hate, it is likely that people will begin to act paranoid, and will be relucatant to take a risk on peace. But I would not put it past Israel to take such a risk, if she came to believe that there is at least a decent chance that it would work.
But there is another side to this history and current events. Our fears are entirely legitimate as well. When Palestinian homes are dismantled, Arab countries are unjustly invaded and innocent civilians are killed, we consequently question Israel’s intentions, and why their policies have dominated the White House. Name me a U.S President, a Presidential candidate, or a powerful U.S politican who visibly criticised Israel and whose career didn’t get crucified because of it. That is what the heart of my post is about.
For sure Israel committed a lot of mistakes, like any other government in the world, and people had to pay with their lives for these mistakes. You don’t see influential American leaders within the government question this, or seriously condemn it, or apologizing on its behalf even (because as staunch supporters it’s their job to do so.)
If I am mistaken, I am only requesting the links to such news articles or stories so I can be convinced otherwise.
Fair enough, Esra’a. You’re saying that Israel is never criticized by people in power in the U.S.
I didn’t look up news articles, but I do remember that the senior Bush, when he was President, and his Secretary of State, did criticize Israel severely for expanding the settlements. I also recall that they held up about 10 billion dollars of loan guarantees for quite a while, to show their displeasure.
Recently, President Carter criticized Israel with his new book, Peace: Not Apartheid. But you’re right, he did get crucified.
Maybe you have a point that Israel does enjoy a somewhat priviliged status in the U.S. But such a relationship, to my mind, must have been grounded in a substantive sharing of values, and in a common interpretation of the past, and in a common aspiration for the future. This does not mean that the Arab world is forever out of the picture. What it does mean, is that we have to figure out a way to integrate the Arab world into the fold, in such a way, that the warm relations that you see between Israel and the U.S., are somehow expanded to include all Arab nations who come to share a common dream with respect to our future.
This is not about Politics, at least in a big part. usually the simplest explanation is the right one, and I do not see why we all miss it. America’s support of Israel is religious, and those who think America is a secular country with few religious people among the population or the government is naive. Americans are religious people, who belong to a faction called Anglicans “I might have got the name wrong”. For those, The Messiah’s return to earth is tied to the survival of Jews in Israel. It is very simple, they want their prophet back and so it’s a divine duty to protect Israel, no matter what!
I’ve said this before and I repeat it now, Obama or McCain, nothing changes.. At least for us Middle easterners. Maybe things will change for the Americans on internal issues. Maybe things will change for Latin America, or North Korea, but not for the Middle east.
So, Israelis should not worry, and Arabs should stand up for themselves, and stop living on the crumbs from America’s and the world’s table.
Final note: Debates are healthy, but it is important that we don’t fool ourselves with usless hope, and sucking up to our procalimed neutrality and fairness. All of us fully understand what’s going on, and debating it further just makes it tacky and rediculous!
I think you mean the Evangelicals. The Jews gather in Israel. The Messiah returns. And the Jews either convert, or are killed. We can’t win.
Hi Esra’a,
This is a very interesting subject to discuss. Esra’a, the massive support of Obama by Americans reflects their desperate want for not having a war in the name of America, poeple, people of America do not wish for war, they are not proud of the way America has tried to protect them. They chose Obama, even though he didn’t seem to be a garantee for their protection, the way a general of wars and scars could have offered. Not that they didn’t like their security, they need this security more than any other ti8me, that was because they did not want this being secure mean making other countries of the world insecure, because even that wouldn’t make a country secure. I don’t know how Obama will handle the situation, but the intention of Americans is some thing honorable. To make this loudest statement of the century they pulled themselved together to overcome the distinctions that the racial issues always impose, this is some thing to honor.
Now let’s get back to our beloved Middle East. The reality of the region exposes many issues which might seem to be a threat, realities which have had bitter fruits for all. The issues of Iran versus Arab countries. Arab countries versus Israel. Kurds vs. the whole region. The issues of religion, race, terrorism, women, children, education, power and enrgy, nuclear, oil as an exhaustible source, we have too many issues that we might think they all bring us down. To overcome thr probl,esm causes by these issues we should first accpet one another, respect, trust, interact and not politically being motivated, but truely help one another find ways of handling the issues. If we want a real change for our region we need to decide to do so fist. I have hope and faith in the youth. For them it is much easier to forgive one another for all the wrong things that has happened in between the countries and the peoiples and between wealthy and the poor, between man and a woman, Arab and a Persian, Arab and a Jew, A Jew and an Iranian, A Kurd and an Arab, A Kurd and a Turk, this is possible among the youth, youth have hearts glowing with the energy of thruthfulness, life and they are the future of the region, they are the wealth of the region. Other countries cannot make us overcome our problems, but the youth of the countries in the Middle East, they can, and they have the will to do so.
Viva Middle East
There is no question that arab concerns and fears are legitimate but there seems to be a view that Israels concerns and fears are not as grave and or not as legitimate as the palestianians/arabs.
I would agree that Israel has a privalaged status amongst the american gov. but then again so does palestine with the arab/muslim world.
I have never quite understood what the US gained out of its completely blind and unquestioning support of Israel. America siphons off billions of dollars in weapons systems to Israel and what exactly does it get in return? Absolutely nothing, unless you count the fueling of antiamerican sentiment amongst the rest of the world. It’s really beyond bizarre to me.
I also don’t feel that every american politician is as enthusiastic of Israel as he/she may claim to be. The fact of the matter is that you cannot get elected to higher office in the US without kissing some major Israeli ass. I do remain optimistic about Obama however. He doesn’t seem to be the type of person who surrounds himself with people who think exactly as he does on various issues. The Rashid Khalidi nonsense that the McCain campaign tried to drudge up exemplifies this I think. And the man has some brains so that’s always a plus
Hi Esra’a: Your sentiments about Obama’s election is expressed by many here in the U.S. including myself. His voctory has been a long time coming. Those of us who have supported him for many years ( to get him elected to the Senate and until the day of his election) are overjoyed. We are especially heartened by people’s comments such as yours. Just relaying those sentiments to my friends brings goosebumps and a lump in my throat. Yes is is maudlin I guess, but we feel vindicated for having spent so much time and effort believing in Obama; for having spent so much time defending him ( against bigots and racists); so much time worrying that Bush et al, would do semthing to crush the movement to bring change.So now we are basking in the Obama voctory, joined by millions of others –”real Americans”–who once again believe in what America still strives to be–a “perfect union.” Thanks again.Peace & Joy. p.s. We will continue to press Obama to end all wars, press him to bring peace to the Middle East and end the kind of relationships that the Bush -Cheny cabal basked in. We will continue to press him to lift up the people who struggle from day to day to survive in the world’s richest nation (perhaps, if our debts are forgiven), press him to meet America’s promise to feed the hungry, give shelter to the homeless, and jobs to the unemployed, not just here but the world over. Of course, it is still a dream, but we will keep on keepin’ on! So must people like you. Inshallah, it will happen.
There have been some very thoughtful and insightful comments in this thread. As an American and a fervent Obama supporter, I can say that it is my hope and the hope of many, many Americans that our new president will bring fairness and justice to our dealings with all countries, especially those of the middle east. I too have very mixed feelings about Israel. Sometimes they infuriate me beyond belief but I sympathize with the Jewish people and the complexity of their history. But I’ve also been to the middle east (Jordan, Saudi) and though I love everything about Arab culture, I find the religious exclusivity narrow-minded and destructive. I have Jewish friends in New York and I have Arab friends and I find it impossible to take sides. But there are so many people in this country who are so unaware of the rest of the world. We have been sold on fear, fear, fear for the past 8 years but by electing Barack Hussein Obama, I hope that his position of power in our country will finally get people to see beyond their ill-informed prejudices.
I found this blog mentioned in the New York Times. I wanted to stop by and say, Americans want peace in the Middle East. I am speaking of my people. We want Palestine to have their own country and to live in peace with Israel. Obama definitely shares that desire.
Americans do not wish harm to any people of the world, though we are aware at times our government has acted counter to our values and wishes. All people experience this disconnect with their leaders who seek war not peace.
Trust that we really are a loving and inclusive people. There are Arabic American citizens and Jewish American citizens and Christian American citizens – we live together in peace. We want the same for you.
Obama is, above all, a practical and pragmatic man. He might have idealistic dreams, but he moves towards them in a pragmatic and practical way. He’s also very, VERY good at getting what he wants and he does want peace in the Middle East.
I have high hopes, therefore, that he will recognize that a one-sided support of Israel’s hawks is simply not a practical step towards helping to resolve Middle East conflict.
Despite being depicted as a far-left liberal, it seems he’s truly a moderate liberal. He may well have the capacity to bring all the moderates together in the Middle East to build an equitable and lasting peace, one that can withstand the attacks of the extremists who would rather visit death and destruction upon the others than to enjoy peace.
I spent the election in upstate New York (family business) and watched the whole thing unfold. Religion not only played a critical role in this landmark event, it was a crux. The Christian community in the US chose the authentic church affiliation of Obama over the strained political piousness of McCain. This was a crucial swing vote that the Democrats needed to grab, and they are also fully aware that, in the next two years they need to keep it in order to keep control of the House of Representatives. That is going to mean, basically, yes, preferring Israel over other Middle East nations. This is a trend that has building along with the ever-increasing influence of evangelical and extreme Christianity in the US, and in what promises to be a particularly grim recession, it will get even stronger. To be quite honest, one of the big fundamentals of this movement is the whole Judgement Day thing, and, to a very large section of this community this means that it will be Muslims that they will be fighting (converting or killing Jews will just be kind’ve a bonus).
Now, even though I don’t believe that Barack Obama buys into this crap for a second, I do believe that he is intelligent enough to concentrate on ending US involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan over opening any religious cans-of-worms in Israel, having quite enough on his plate trying to keep his country from going completely bankrupt. It will be far easier to play diplomatic footsie with Iran and Syria and claim it a breakthrough than to get Hamas, Fatah, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah, and assorted subdivision-fortress building Jewish settlers to agree on anything. Any kind of stance other than the occaisional diplomatic equivilant of an embarrassed cough when it comes to Israel would most certainly call President Obama’s “Husseinity” into question, which is something the Democrats have worked very hard to get around.
It’s a pretty irrational way to conduct an ongoing foreign policy, but that’s what happens when belief replaces reason….
Here’s an analysis I wrote of an imaginary QA session inside the Israeli cabinet once Obama takes over as President.
http://forecasthighs.com/2008/11/06/yes-we-can/
I found Murad’s remarks sickening – they were literally the same old shit used by numerous Arab and European extremists to demonize Jews and portray them as the manipulators of everyone around them. I’m getting sick of that tactic. I find that offensive just like you find my dismissal of his slander to be offensive. As for being misunderstood, that has happened to me here on many of posts here. Sometimes I choose the wrong words or phrase my point incorrectly. Sometimes the opinion I express has a stigma attached to it that I do not identify with. Other times people are out to get me. The best I can do is try to clarify my opinion for them – which gives us a chance to talk more. Sometimes I do take offense, but preconceived notions are not something that can be avoided, because everyone approaches each statement from a different mindset.
My apologies.
There are words, and there are the meanings behind the words. The words don’t always hit the target, with respect to the intended meaning. In fact, sometimes, the words themselves get in the way of the meaning behind the words. You say the word “God,” and people get all bent out of shape. But you say “The Big Bang,” and people could care less. I say, what’s the difference between The Big Bang, and God? Some 13.7 billion years ago there was nothing, not even time or space. And then there was an explosion, and suddenly there was everything, the entire universe in all its glory. Doesn’t that explosion smack of God, the Creator, or the “creative energy,” which brings forth everything out of nothing?
The point is, even though we may be stretching things somewhat, is that we should not worry that much about the specific words we use, especially words that are inordinately burdened by heavy connotations. We should worry instead about the meaning behind the words, so that we can begin the painful process of coming together about ideas, ideas that can make sense to all of us, and that can therefore begin to make a difference.
Yes yes shared values… like killing Arabs, killing Muslims, killing Arab children, killing Muslim children, taking over other countries, claiming that country as their own, plundering that country, killing Ara… hold on I already said that…. ok I think thats it for now.
I also don’t understand how being nazis and being victims of Nazi equates to having common past. I mean US was one of the biggest advocates of Hitlers if I remember the unedited version of history correctly. But I do understand the common aspiration for the future both countries have… you know the whole being nazi thing.
It’s easy to throw labels around, Jina. It’s a bit more difficult, and at times somewhat awkward, to search for the truth. People take some comfort in labeling one another. “Oh, he’s just a Nazi.” End of story. Time to move on. No need to worry about whether we’re right or not. The label itself will suffice to put our lazy minds at ease. And that’s how it goes. But the labels just set us even further apart, instead of bringing us together.
Whether you like it or not, Israel and the U.S. do share values, and it has nothing to do with killing Arabs. Values like democracy, or freedom of expression, or free enterprise, or freedom of worship, have nothing to do with killing Arabs. Do the U.S. and Israel always live up to their values? No. But who the hell does?
In terms of the Nazi comparison, it may be convenient and provocative for you to use that label, but I’m sorry, it does not hold. I studied history as well, and while I’m sure that some Americans supported Hitler, the vast majority of Americans hated his guts, and were willing to do whatever it took to take him out. And the world is better for it. And I don’t see Israel, as powerful as she may be, rounding up millions of Arabs and exterminating them in cold blood, and with utter percision. Yes, innocent people on both sides of the conflict are getting killed. Yes, there is injustice being perpetrated on both sides of the fence. But there is no wholesale attempt to eradicate a people, on the part of Israel, based on their religion, or their ethnicity.
I said it before, and I’ll say it again until I turn blue in the face: There is no one in the Middle East, that is better able or more willing to help Palestinians then Israel. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. I know it’s hard to believe, but I think that the coming years, and I mean soon, will prove me right.
You may be right about the capability part, but you are NOT right about Israel being “willing” to do anything for the Palestinians. 60+ years of recorded evidence has that against you. Israel needs to make some serious changes for such a thing to be possible. When everyone in Israel stands up against racism and human rights abuses we will have hope, but so far this isn’t happening. I am proud and inspired by all the Israelis who are, but unfortunately they are far from the majority and because of that, there isn’t much we can be optimistic over.
Time will tell, Esra’a. Things will either get better, or they’ll get much worst. But we shouldn’t confuse the past with the future. We all know that the past sucks. But we don’t have to be the prisoners of the past.
There was a time when African Americans were slaves. And then there were Jim Crow laws which legalized racism. And then there was just plain old racism, some of which is still with us. And now there is an African American elected President.
If this could happen here, then it could happen in Israel as well. And if you visited Israel, as I hope you will one day, I think you would see that most Israelis not only want peace, but are willing to do what it takes to get there. A lot of what makes news, makes news precisely because it is controversial, but not necessarily reflective of the heart of the people.
I met a professor of the environment the other day, from a leading Israeli University, and told him about my crazy idea of a green energy factory in the West Bank. He didn’t laugh. He seemed quite enthusiastic in fact, and said he would get back to me after discussing it with his colleagues. That attitute, believe it or not, is far more in keeping with what most Israelis feel.