Support Israel's Conscientious Objectors
Just last week I received an inspiring email from Jewish Voice for Peace, asking me to support the Shministim, a young group of Israeli conscientious objectors who refuse to serve in the Israeli military because of what they consider to be an unlawful and unethical occupation of Palestinian land. One conscientious objector, Raz Bar-David Varon, says, “I wasn’t born to serve as a soldier who occupies another, and the struggle against the occupation is mine too. It is a struggle for hope, for a reality that sometimes feels so far away. I have a responsibility for this society. My responsibility is to refuse.” Her sentiment is held by all who have joined the Shministim.
In response, the Israeli government has jailed these young people, contrary to basic human rights and international law.
In what is considered a highly militaristic society, becoming a conscientious objector in Israel takes an extraordinary amount of courage. Although I cannot refuse with them, I am inspired by their actions and want to spread their powerful message of hope, change, and dialogue. A strong conscientious objector movement within Israel could have a significant impact on the course of the occupation and increase dialogue within and between Israel and Palestine. It humanizes Israelis and forces other Israelis to face the humanization of Palestinians, an occupied people.
The most legitimate advocates to end the occupation will always come from within Israel and the American Jewish community. As an Arab American, I do think it is important for us to organize and have our voices heard, but the reality is that not much will change until Israelis and American Jews begin to speak louder than the likes of AIPAC and the Israeli establishment. Arab Americans can support this process, but nothing speaks more legitimately than an Israeli who refuses to serve or an American Jewish lobby organization that diametrically opposes AIPAC positions.
To support the Shministim and send a letter to the Israeli Minister of Defense, visit http://december18th.org/.
Join the Conversation
Hypocrite Arabian nationalist. You are not anything better then the Israelis. Go preach to some baathist Arabs in Syria and Iraq.
Wladimir, what you smoking?
I do not smoke anything. Occupation of Palestinian land is very subjective and Arabic nationalist. I still remember how Palestinians cheered for Saddam Hussein and helped Saddam to kill Shia’s and Kurds. Berbers, Arameans, Assyrians, Kurds, Africans, etc could also say Arabs occupy their land. A Palestinian state would be another islamist or secular nationalist tyranny. No thanks.
That’s completely simplistic. You perhaps witness very few incidents in which several Palestinians cheered for Saddam and resort to the conclusion that all of them are nationalistic and tyrannical. I’ve never read anything as outrageous as your comment.
How, exactly, did Palestinians contribute to the genocide of Kurds in Iraq? Name me one Palestinian civilian who was an anti-Kurd, pro-Iraq activist and who actually participated in the killing of Kurds in Iraq.
Furthermore, I find it super ironic that you seemingly claim to be for the rights of Kurds, Berbers, Armenians, Assyrians, “Africans” and yet you don’t seem to mind the brutal occupation of Palestinian land. It’s true minorities do not have many rights in Arab countries due to the corruption of our leadership, and many of us Arabs are fighting for their rights, but blaming the oppression on Arabs as a population, referring to Palestinian activism as “nationalist,” as opposed to questioning the governments in question is downright stupid. This is how racism and injustices are born. You’re not any less hateful than the people you love to rant about.
So you would rather see an innocent nation getting dominated and violently occupied by an Islamophobic and equally nationalist/tyrannical regime (that of Israel.) That makes total sense.
Arab Israelis within Israel do not have any rights whatsoever. Minorities suffer on a daily basis to receive rights and equal treatment from the government, which they have yet to receive. You claim Palestine is “Islamist” when Israel’s government is just as religious in nature and doesn’t care for non-Jewish citizens. You seem to master hypocrisy in your recent comments here with such baseless, inaccurate and appalling claims.
Mona, apologies for the fact that your thread and its powerful message got hijacked by Wladimir’s abusive and daft trolling. To go back on topic, I completely support Israelis who have the courage to speak out against the injustices of this occupation despite the many inconveniences that they’d have to deal with, they are the ones who will eventually bring peace to this never ending war. Their sacrifices for human rights should never be forgotten.
I completely agree. You might enjoy exploring the posts of Eva, an extremely passionate Israeli activist who works hard for Palestinian rights. Despite the amount of bigoted and hateful comments she receives from staunch Israeli supporters, she continues her passion. Her husband is an Israeli historian whom I interviewed here, he is also extremely supportive of Palestinians under this violent occupation. It’s only these kinds of people and their tireless activism and courage who will bring peace in this war.
I don’t support Palestine or Israel. Israel is not occupying Palestinian land. Lands/soil don’t have any ethnicity and their ‘owners’ change over time. I don’t support any ethnic nationalism.
“Let’s get real: small nations have no rights. Nobody has any rights. People have the guts and the guns or they’re nothing. So the central fact about Kurdistan is that it hasn’t managed to claw its way to existing, which means it doesn’t have any “right” to exist.” – Gary Brecher
http://christopherhitchenswatch.blogspot.com/2007/11/why-kurdistan-is-not-nation-and-never.html
Saddam aids Palestinians
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2846365.stm
Just ask Shia Iraqi’s or Kurds why they don’t like Palestinians.
Munira Farid, a 27-year-old mother of four, was expelled from Kirkuk this month after her husband, a farmer, refused to join Saddam’s Al-Quds, or Jerusalem, regiment that is meant to “liberate” Palestine.
Its soldiers allegedly include male relatives of Palestinian suicide bombers, who are being resettled in Kirkuk, together with thousands of Iraqi Arabs.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/1395232/Saddam-%27cleansing%27-of-Kurds-continues.html
Occupation of Palestinian land is very subjective
You lost the argument here. No it’s not subjective it’s universally recognized around the world and halfassed philosophy doesn’t change that.
I don’t support Palestine or Israel. Israel is not occupying Palestinian land.
No see, one of these sentences doesn’t agree with the other.
The word “alleged” makes a huge difference. Besides, Saddam using a handful of these people as a symbol does not=all of them not deserving rights. It’s not as if they would have had any more of a choice than any Iraqi did to do what they were told.
I guess you would also tell me that you’re neither supporting or against what’s being done to Palestinians in Iraq right now and for the last five years, but don’t expect me to believe that either.
If I remember correctly, India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Singapore, Canada, Australia, countless African and former USSR nations gained independence without firing a single shot so this argument is very invalid, stupid and illogical, kind of like rest of your argument.
Therefor Wladimir, you are an idiot.
And wtf is an “African”? Is this suppose to be some kind of an ethnic group?
India, Pakistan: Millions killed.
The period of decolonization had to do with the weakening of Europe because of world war I+II. The independence of USSR ‘nations’ had to do with the fall of the Soviet Union. If Russia still controlled them, they wouldn’t be independent.
About Palestinians: http://www.jeffersoncorner.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/sad705_wh.jpg Arafat + Saddam.
+ Palestinians were part of the Fedayeen + they took over Kurdish homes in Kerkuk + Saddam paid suicide bombers with money. Apart from that we can look to Iranian proxies like Hamas and Hezbollah. Iran is such a great country too.
“Saddam seemed to command more power than any Arab leader in modern history, and when he invaded Kuwait, Palestinians rushed to savor what Makiya calls the “crumb of comfort” that he threw to them. Makiya notes the exceptions, which include the Israeli-Palestinian writer Emile Habibi and Harvard professor Walid Khalidi. But most Palestinian intellectuals saw Saddam as the revered Palestinian poet Mahmoud Darwish described him in 1986: as the “moon of Baghdad.” Makiya’s mature disappointment with the Palestinians has been as passionate as his youthful “solidarizing,” and one wonders whether the Palestinians really have deserved either.
http://www.geocities.com/martinkramerorg/SaddamsScribes.htm
“As Jabotinsky correctly forecasted, Arabs made out quite well after the break up of the Turks’ four century-old Empire at the end of World War I. To date, they have almost two dozen states. And most of those were conquered and forcibly Arabized from millions of Berbers, Copts, Kurds, Jews, Black Africans, and other non-Arab peoples.
The reality, of course, is that the vast majority of Arabs did not even begin to enter into the picture regarding the land of Israel / Judaea / Palestine until almost seven centuries after the fall of Jewish Jerusalem–during the beginning of the Arabs’ own extensive imperial conquest, forced Arabization, and settlement of much of the region. Imperialism is evidently only nasty when non-Arabs so indulge. ”
http://www.freeman.org/m_online/jan05/honigman1.php
Israel will end because of demographic reasons. A jewish minority can never rule over an Arab majority and I don’t expect the Arab minority to be much better then the Israeli’s.
Esra’a, as you may know, I have a lot of faith in the discussion on Mideast Youth. This is why I hope you will not make the same mistakes you so cleverly point out in other people’s writing. Perhaps it’s subtle, but there is a difference between talking about discrimination and making sweeping arguments like that, which are by default incorrect.
“Arab Israelis within Israel do not have any rights whatsoever.”
Oh really? Arabs don’t have even one right in Israel?
I’d like to see you deny the fact that Arab citizens face severe discrimination in Israel. Go ahead and try, and then let’s see your facts refuted, by actual Arabs in Israel.
Hi Esra’a,
I’m not saying Arabs don’t face discrimination. Every minority in every country faces discrimination. Israeli PM Ehud Olmert even said that Israeli Arabs are discrimnated against in Israel and it needs to be fixed.
But look at Baharain, your own country. You still have a monarch in power. There is no law barring an Israeli Arab from becoming PM, the highest office in the land. But can an Arab, a member of the majority, become the King of Bahrain, the highest office in that land? Can a Jew can hold the highest office in the land of Bahrain?
Yes, we have a female Jewish ambassador serving the country, the first Arab Jew to hold such a position in the region. The King offered to build a Synagogue for the Jews here, and have offered land to Arab Jews who return to the country (FYI, some poor locals are dying to get land but Arab Jews who return to Bahrain get them for free.) At least 2 Bahraini Jews serve in the Parliament, others as advisers.
Either way, if I make a false claim like, “Bahrain is a democracy,” then you can spew these facts, otherwise, there’s no reason not to stay relevant. This thread is about Israel. Not Bahrain. My nationality doesn’t mean I can’t criticize other countries as much as I criticize my own (and in case you don’t read my posts, which you probably don’t, then I do that quite often.) Arab countries are corrupt, and no one here denies that, but Israel is corrupt as well and I don’t see why anyone can’t point that fact out.
For the record, no one can hold the “highest” office in the land but the monarchy itself, however Jews do hold high offices and the government is, as noted earlier, favorable to them here. So if the point of your comment was that, somehow, Jews are “suffering” in my country, you fail. If you are just pointing out the imperfections of our political system, you’re being irrelevant, a silly tactic used to divert attention away from the topic at hand. I’m an outspoken critic of Arab governments, particularly their treatment of minorities, I run and direct several campaigns dealing with this, and never once denied it.
However, I do find it revolting when I’m told that somehow I cannot criticize Israel in its own treatment of minorities as well, and that as an Arab I should “just” focus on “Arab governments.” It’s illogical and retarded. I will criticize any government or country that deserves it and Israel is one of them, whether you like it or not is something I really, really don’t care about.
“Arab countries are corrupt, and no one here denies that, but Israel is corrupt as well and I don’t see why anyone can’t point that fact out.”
The Israeli media criticizes Israel. The Arab media criticizes Israel. The UN does nothing but criticize Israel. So when does it go the other way? Self criticism is a Jewish tradition (Tanakh), maybe our cousins should pick up that tradition as well.
Just wondering, are all Arab news networks/agencies owned by Arab governments? Is Al-Jazeera owned by the Qatar government? Or is it just a private enterprise based in Qatar?
“Arab Jews who return to Bahrain get them for free”
Well duh, more people to tax, money that goes to the monarch. Bahrain is a pretty small country. Nobody’s existence is threatened there, unless you are gay I persume.
“however Jews do hold high offices and the government is, as noted earlier, favorable to them here.”
Don’t Arabs hold high offices in Israel as well? Supreme Court? Cabinet? Parliament? Military? Answer: Yes.
“For the record, no one can hold the “highest” office in the land but the monarchy itself, however …”
Maybe Israel should turn to a monarchy. That system works well in Bahrain, why not try it in Israel?
“So if the point of your comment was that, somehow, Jews are “suffering” in my country, you fail.”
I am not trying to make that point. Bahrain is pretty small and irrelevant country. As long as the monarch is in control, nobody’s existence is threatened. The first time I saw a Bahrain flag was at the back of HUGE yacht. Didn’t even know it was a Bahrain flag till I looked up wikipedia today. 99.9999% of Westerners never even heard of Bahrain.
People are not taxed here. I’m not a very big fan of uninformed comments.
Honestly, I’m not interested in what you spend your free time looking at on Wikipedia, I mean it’s cute and all, but this post is about the Shministim Solidarity Campaign. It’s actually against our comment policy to be this incredibly irrelevant. I will have to ask you to move this discussion into our forums and to stop turning this thread into something that it’s not. You need to respect this post and the site’s rules, which frankly isn’t much to ask for.
I did know there was a forum. Thanks for the info.
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It’s always good that others see that Israel isn’t all made of racist/violent people. On the other hand, most of the Israelis join the army because suicide bombers are attacking their family and friends without distinction. If it wasn’t for the attacks, almost nobody would want to serve to occupy that land.
In the end, those that don’t serve leave others to serve for them – and sometimes it means dying for them. So you’re right, it’s important to speak and act against the occupation – but not serving in the military is another thing.
About the prejudice against Arab-Israelis, it’s true that they are discriminated against here in Israel but saying they have no rights is very far from the truth. In truth the Arabs get the same technical as everyone else – the only differences are the law of returning (which grants any Jew that comes to live here citizenship and not sons of Arabs that left Israel) and the symbols. They’re municipalities get less money. Most of the problems with the Israeli-Arabs are a result of the Palestinian conflict.
Peace
I don’t agree with this logic or its implication. That’s like saying teenagers refuse to be suicide bombers because they want others to pick up the fight for them instead. If this war was clearly about “self-defense,” as opposed to outright occupation, then they would have served. But it’s not. Clearly they find this war to be immoral and are probably too disturbed by the many injustices caused by Israeli soldiers to be a part of that corruption. This is far from “service,” this is about morals. These people are heroic for standing up for what’s right and risking their own freedom or reputation (because let’s face it, everyone is calling them self-hating traitors) in doing so. It takes more guts to commit to one’s own human values than to parade around in a gun.
Having rights on paper doesn’t mean anything. Kurds in Turkey have “rights” on paper, yet they are incredibly oppressed there. There are many ways in which Arabs face injustices within Israel. Arabs get treated like 2nd hand, dirty citizens, and for a country that prides itself on its supposed “democracy” that’s quite outrageous. It’s good to see people actually admitting that there’s a problem, considering the amount of people who spent years denying it. But I am still saddened to see not many Israelis fighting this particular struggle for equality, and have the utmost respect and love for those who actually do. In my opinion these are the real Israeli heroes, not the IDF.
first,
“That’s like saying teenagers refuse to be suicide bombers because they want others to pick up the fight for them instead” – no. Because you can serve in the army and refuse to serve on the occupied territory – something some people choose to do.
“because let’s face it, everyone is calling them self-hating traitors” – I, and many people I know, don’t call them that. So don’t say everyone please
I don’t agree with their resolve but I think any citizen has the right to refuse drafting into the army. If they said they were pacifists it would make sense to me but not joining the army at all because you don’t agree with one of it’s roles today is a bit too much in my opinion.
also,
“Having rights on paper doesn’t mean anything.” – It’s not only on paper. They get health insurance, national insurance, education, the right to vote and criticize the country, etc – pretty much any right I have. They make use of those rights, whether people like it or not, and criticize Israel and get child benefit payments (just as they should).
Don’t get me wrong, I criticize my country a lot for the injustices and discriminations, I just feel that making it into giving “no rights at all” is also not just.
“I am saddened to see not many Israelis fighting this particular struggle for equality.” – the trouble is most Israelis, at least were I live, haven’t met many Arabs in their life outside of newspapers (usually not in welcoming circumstances). That, along with a very one sided representation of history in schools – leads to the alienation of the Israeli-Arabs. Afterwards, Israelis hear about the Israeli-Arabs referring to themselves as first Palestinians (the ones attacking them in their eyes) and only afterwards Israelis.
I think one of the main reason for the inequality is that the Israeli-Arabs don’t participate enough in the elections. Their representation in the Knesset is much lower than their numbers in Israel.
Israel through the eyes of an Israeli Muslim:
http://fora.tv/2007/05/31/Israel_Through_the_Eyes_of_an_Israeli_Muslim
My comment isn’t shown here for some reason
I’ll answer shortly then:
you can join the military and refuse to serve in occupied territory. It’s been done many times.
I don’t call people who don’t serve traitors and I think it’s their right to decide whether to serve in the army or not – I just don’t think the occupation is a good reason not to participate in any war whatsoever (say we are attacked for example). If you’re a pacifist for example, then it makes perfect sense not to enlist in the army.
I am aware of the discrimination and oppose it. I just think that saying Arabs here don’t have rights at all doesn’t do justice with Israel. Arabs receive the same benefits from having many children, they receive health insurance and national security and have the right to criticize Israel (which they rightfully exploit). They also have the right to vote – a right that if they took enough advantage off, they would have had much more equality.
I think there is much hostility in the Jewish-Israelis towards the Arab-Israelis because:
1)Most don’t meet Arabs in day to day circumstances and thus see them most of the time on newspapers as terrorists and extremists that want them dead.
2)In schools we are taught a very one sided version of history. Probably more self-criticizing than the Palestinian teachers’ version (according to reports I saw in the news) but still not enough in my opinion. Students are encouraged to be patriots and join the army as fighters to sacrifice for the country. Raising suspicion in the state’s actions will not encourage those teachings.
3)After all this, when the Israelis finally meat an Arab-Israeli in work or in an article about something other than suicide bombings, he tells them he is first a Palestinian (an enemy in their eyes) and then a Israeli.
I haven’t oppressed or occupied anyone.I don’t care about the state being Jewish or not. I was just born here. I try to stop the occupation and the injustices with the tools I have as one person.
In the end, people who come to suicide-bomb on me and my family and friends need to be stopped. Would you agree to that?
It is very understandable when the youth would try to say no to arms, to army, at the same time, by their own people they might be considered as people who are refusing to defend their own people. Do you guys think that Israelis who want to go to army are happy when they go? Go ask their mothers who cry when their kids, if boys need to serve for three year and if girls for 2 years, it is too much, it could be very dangerous, it might be life threatening, and when they go back they might feel very much hurt if they have survived the very long period of being soldiers serving their country. Here in Iran, only boys have to serve the army and that is even less than the time period that the Islraeli girls need to serve. Some guys here commit suicide in the 8 months that they serve, I have heard of the cases of people really shooting themselves in the leg or arm, just to be away from the army and that is even with the country being in no conflict and war at the moment.
You go to Europe, you go to other countries around and meet with the Israeli tourists, who are mostly the soldiers who ahve just finished their term and now for the fist time after so long can have the opportunity to move out, you speak as Midldle Eastern youth and you see them saying” We don’t want the things that happen in our country, we feel so bad about all Palestinians and Israeli conflict and we really don;t want that”, at the same time, if they put down the arms they mght get killed as well, and this is not serving life and justice and balance at the same time. We can see the wat for peace and non-violence on both side, both the yoth, both the people, and here the Arab and Islamic countries can have a good role in helping the conflict east so that if the soldiers from both sixdes, if they put down their arms, they are not killed in consequence. Europe and Islmic countries, big and powerful countries like USA and Russia, and individual voices heard here and there, all enclosed with G-d’s will, would definitely make a differnce for the residents of this trobuled region. Amen for the best results.
Elinor, I sympathize with what you say. We in Israel have that problem too – soldiers committing suicide. There is a greater number of soldiers dying from committing suicide than from battles in normal years.
Yarden
I hope one day, your rgion be called, as it really should be a sanctuary for all the individuals living, for all who would love to visit. I hope one day, if any one wants to be safe and secure travel to your region and pray, you all deserve that, your region could well serve as a source of inspiration and peace for all the believers of the religions practiced in Middle East. I pray the governments intervene with all their good intentions and with respect to the people of your region, from Muslim and Jew and Christian. Good intentions, we need so that an olive tree would be planted and never uprooted again, the lives of people respected and their faiths, it is an end that we all need to work to achieve. Amen
Amen
These brave young people make me proud to be Jewish again. It is encouraging that some young Israelis are waking up to the horrors of the criminal occupation of the West Bank and the siege of Gaza. I have signed the petition and support them fully.
Salamat, shalom,
I am encouraged and inspired by this discussion among Middle East youth (according to the Website name, I assume you are youth). I’m older now, so won’t be participating actively, except for this comment to let you all know that it’s a very good thing that you are taking advantage of this opportunity to make contact with your diverse localities and opinions. Getting to know each other is a first step to creating understanding and reconciliation among us all. The world needs more of such person-to-person meetings.
You might be interested in another person-to-person initiative constantly being expanded via Len and Libby Traubman’s site:
http://traubman.igc.org/global.htm
“An enemy is one whose story we have not heard.”
larry, we are also ashamed of many things that happen in our countries, as to myself, the human rights being neglected in many cases,Women’s r4ights, freedom of speech, stoning, hangins, maltreatment of our Sunnis, our religious minorities and the Shiites who believe in the separation of religion and state. So we all need to change.
Shalom and Salaam Tamar,
Indeed i am encouraged by the courage and honesty of girls like Mona, who touch an issue not touched in other forums, and the courage of the director of this forum, Esra’a, who is just 23, but her website has offered a very unique opportunity for the freedom of speech and voicing the ideas that we don’t hear through other media inside and outside the Middle East.
Thank you for providing your link Tamar.
Hi All!
Thank you for your comments (and some compliments).
I’m happy that my first post generated such a response. I appreciate the website/forum provided for us to discuss our views.
I definitely think hearing all sides of an issue is important, but in my mind there is a serious and distinct difference between dialogue and debate. The origins of the word debate come from the Latin battere, meaning to beat down. Though we don’t mean ‘to beat down’ in modern times when we refer to debating, I think the origin of the word is telling. Debating with people is really about getting them to shut up because you have been able to win by being smarter, wittier, or quicker. I feel like this type of ‘beat down’ is exactly what happened in some of the responses above.
In contrast, I think engaging in dialogue opens the possibility of greater understanding. I’m not trying to just be semantic; I think the terms and the ways of engaging in conversation are quite different. To me, when you are actually in a dialogue, you enter it from the position of trying to understand the other person and release, as much as possible, any prejudices. So you begin by wondering about the other person and why they feel a certain way instead of trying to beat them down and ‘win.’
I hope I don’t sound too pedantic, but I just wanted to bring it up for consideration. I honestly haven’t checked out the site ‘rules’ for discussions, but I personally hope to use this forum for conversations that resemble dialogue rather than debate.
Thanks again, everyone! I’m looking forward to posting more.
So you are doing the same thing as the Palestinians. Only issue you seem to have is the way in which you fight. Palestinians are taught to become suicide bombers/terrorist, you become soldiers (of course soldiers to me are also terrorists when they do what the IDF does). Too bad Palestinians don’t have a super power to back them up, if they did then they will also have soldiers, gunships and fighter jets and you can both kill each other in a more conventional way and none can be terrorists. Correct?
Civilized people consider this racist/bigotry. Ya group millions of people as one. Good luck with that. Ohh and thieves and murderers calling the victims enemy for wanting their land back sounds kind of funny to me.
I don’t agree that’s true. The IDF, with all my criticism of it, still doesn’t try to kill innocents. Soldiers don’t join the army in order to kill Arabs but in order to defend against terrorists attacks on innocent people.
The difference between terrorism and an army isn’t the amount of funding. The difference is the tactics. Terrorism targets civilians. The IDF does not. It happened several times in the past and always the people responsible were trialed.
Jina, First of all, I wasn’t justifying the Israelis – I was trying to explain why people in Israel think the way they do. Racist? Well that’s just the plain truth the way they see it. The way to resolve it isn’t to hate them but to spread the information and show that there are many Palestinians that are good people. As obvious as it might seem to you, Israelis are many times surprised when they find out about a Palestinian that did a good deed.
The problem is that this information is something people don’t like to know because it’s in too much contrast with everything they grew on. It’s like Neo (from Matrix) choosing the pill to truth and not comfort – many people wouldn’t make the same choice.
Jina again, I haven’t murdered or stolen anything from anyone. I don’t serve in the army. Am I safe today in Israel from suicide bombing? Do you really believe it’s justified to suicide bomb on civilians? Launch missiles at civilian cities and villages?
Some time later in the Middle East, we will not need arms to protect ourselves, we will happiliy ship the arms to the honorable countries of destination they might need it, even they might not need it, because if they target, for example US, to whom would they sell their other products? They need us to buy their things, and we need them to invest in our countries so no more need suffocate ourselves with the arming ourselves to teeth, I guess gradually we will come to the point that killing any individual would not solve the problems at hand, it would be wiping off the questions instead of solving the prolem, it would double the complexity of the question which is still out there and it is harder twice as much to solve. Perhaps we will say at the moent there is no other way but to protect an individual from the harms caused by another, holding the arms and pointing toward the other. Only very temporarily postponing the damage, the problems need to be solved with good intentions, minute consideration and a pool of efforts by all the ones who would benefit frome peace.