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Voice of Moderate Jews

January 16th, 2009Ali Dahmash (Jordan)

The following video is about Israelis who refused to serve in Gaza.
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Video II: Anti war protests in Tel Aviv
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12 Responses to “Voice of Moderate Jews”

  1. #1 Kolya - January 16th, 2009 at 9:12 pm

    When will we see Palestinians interviewed on TV who condemn attacks on Israel and who are willing to prevent other Palestinians from launching rockets at Israel? Is it not the case that one reason that Hamas is popular in the Arab / Muslim world is that it is committed to violent resistance? Could anyone get elected today in the Palestinian territories on a platform of nonviolence and negotiation?

  2. #2 Esra'a (Bahrain) - January 17th, 2009 at 2:56 am

    When will we see Palestinians interviewed on TV who condemn attacks on Israel and who are willing to prevent other Palestinians from launching rockets at Israel?

    They don’t interview moderate Palestinians on TV. You can find them online, on the papers, and in many other places, but rarely on TV and especially not in America, if that’s where you are.

  3. #3 Esra'a (Bahrain) - January 17th, 2009 at 3:15 am

    Is it not the case that one reason that Hamas is popular in the Arab / Muslim world is that it is committed to violent resistance?

    Not at all. Who said Hamas is popular? Many people here despise them, including many Palestinians.

  4. #4 Yarden - January 17th, 2009 at 7:39 am

    Esra’a – it was elected though.

  5. #5 Esra'a (Bahrain) - January 17th, 2009 at 11:08 am

    Esra’a – it was elected though.

    I really don’t get this argument to be honest, specifically when it’s being used against Palestinians, to somehow justify everything they’re going through.

    Hamas was running against the equally corrupt Fatah. Many were sick of Fatah’s visible corruption and wanted any form of change, which Hamas promised to offer. Secondly, not everyone voted. Thirdly, you can vote for someone and then disagree entirely with them, like Bush critics who voted for him yet are against him entirely. This is really like saying “Iran deserves to be denied their human rights because they elected Ahmadinijad.” How many people registered to vote? How many people thought they were voting for the “lesser evil”? If you are run by a party that doesn’t provide you with anything constructive, it’s common sense you’d vote for the other person.

    It’s possible to be sick of both Hamas and Israeli corruption (which, obviously, is more lasting.) For example, the father of this young journalist in Gaza, Akrem al-Ghoul, who unfortunately died due to the horrible attacks, was also against Hamas and equally against Israel -

    “My father hated what Hamas was doing to Gaza’s legal system, introducing Islamist justice, and he completely opposed violence. He would have worked hard for a just settlement with Israel and a better future for Palestinians.”

    Claiming that all Palestinians agree with Hamas and their ideologies, despite thousands of Palestinians proving otherwise, doesn’t help anyone. People need to find something else to hold against Palestinians. This argument just doesn’t hold up, especially when many Palestinians like Ramzy are writing and acting against Hamas. He doesn’t deserve to go through this just because of his leaders, but clearly Israel doesn’t agree.

  6. #6 Michael W - January 17th, 2009 at 11:44 am

    @Esra’a,
    You are right that the claim that Hamas was democratically elected has many short comings. They were running against the corrupt Fatah, but also, like in all other democratic elections such as Iraq, Kosovo, and Ireland, the parties had to disarm. Unfortunately the West didn’t ask the Palestinian parties to disarm. This puts much more responsibility on the Palestinian people to overcome the shortcomings in democratic elections. Unfortunately, the Palestinians did not over come these shortcomings by creating new parties/groups trying to represent the Palestinians with platforms that are wise to achieve what the Palestinians want – an independent state. It’s not Israel’s fault that the Palestinians elected Hamas and that the Palestinians didn’t overthrow Hamas when it was killing dozens of Fatah members and other Palestinians.

    I have been watching Al Jazeera English for more than a year now and even they rarely put “moderate” Palestinians and/or Arabs that are willing to criticize the current “face” of the Palestinian cause which Hamas is now like Arafat was before. For such a long time the Palestinian cause meant resistance, armed resistance and no Palestinian can criticize the wisdom of resistance because it is what every Palestinian child is taught that it is their duty to resist Israel. The Palestinians would find allies with reasonable Israelis and Jewish Americans if the Palestinians had a group which they could support which didn’t spout the rhetoric of violence and antisemitism. The US government has to support Fatah because it has at least some political power even though it is dwindling but Fatah has expressed more interest in the peace process than any other Palestinian faction.

    You can’t compare Bush with Hamas on the basis of approval of the people. Bush only controls the White House (and thankfully not for much longer). The US Congress and Supreme Court have authority which curbs what Bush can do. Hamas won 70% of the legislative power (I think) and since the coup and counter coup in Gaza, Hamas is the sole power in there. There is nothing that can question Hamas’ authority in Gaza except the people. Israel can’t wait for the Palestinians to be politically assertive on their representatives. Israel has its own responsibilities to its people.

    I don’t think the Palestinians would have overthrown Hamas if they knew that Israel was going to retaliate the way it has in the last 3 weeks. Not necessarily because they don’t want to, but because they can’t. It’s the most dysfunctional national liberation movement. The only reason they get so much attention is because of two reasons. 1.) Their spectacular terrorist attacks over the last several decades. From the Munich Olympics to the suicide bombers at Israeli restaurants/cafes/clubs. 2.) They are fighting in the Holy Land. They are fighting the “People of the Book” – the Jews. It’s the part of the Middle East which most Westerners know because of the Bible.

  7. #7 Michael W - January 17th, 2009 at 12:02 pm

    Also, somebody from this site posted a video recently of a Palestinian American woman who spoke on American TV. That doesn’t happen often. She was smart and even critical of Hamas.

  8. #8 Kolya - January 17th, 2009 at 4:14 pm

    From afar it looks like the sentiments of the Arab “street” can easily be hijacked by any party that starts a conflict with Israel. During 2006 war between Hezbollah and Israel and the current war in Gaza it appears that the Arab public opinion unites in condemnation of Israel and support of “Resistance” (as long as their own country is not being damaged). Iran clearly is harnessing this reality for it’s own ends. Moderate Arab regimes clearly have used this effect for their own purposes in the past as well – they are now worried that the Islamists are using this tool more effectively in a bid for power. While I am sure there are folks in the middle east that support moderation and negotiation it does seem to me that at least as far as Gaza is concerned, the moderates will not be controlling facts on the ground for a long time to come short of some international force taking over and running the place.

  9. #9 Ali Dahmash (Jordan) - January 19th, 2009 at 12:31 am

    Kolya, the current Fatah leadership in Ramallah is a thug of corrupted theives and that is the reason why people in the West Bank and Gaza elected Hamas in 2006, and that includes Palestinian Christians as well. Hamas have failed politicaly and Arab countries, US and Irsael didn’t give Hamas to fail infront of the people who elected it but actualy the agression and war on Gaza gained popularity for Hamas as a resistance group. Though I blame both sides on this tragedy, what we need now is very clear:
    1. End the occupation in Gaza and the West Bank
    2. Re build Gaza and its economy
    3. Have fair elections under UN umberella
    4. Have international monitors inside Israel to protect Palestinians
    5. Put Israel acocunted for the damage it has caused for the past 60 years and file law suits against its leadrship

  10. #10 Ali Dahmash (Jordan) - January 19th, 2009 at 12:38 am

    Michael, yes I posted “American Palestinian Speaks out on Fox TV”. There are many outspoken moderate Arabs out there but Mainstream media in the US makes sure to show only Islamic radicals and corrupted leadership tha tsupport Mahmoud Abbas’ Fatah, Mubarak of Egypt, Abdallah of Saudi Arabia. It is very rare that we see anything on American News media. Thats why people check their news on the internet (www.ifamericansknew.com , http://www.democracynow.org , http://www.commondreams.org)

  11. #11 Kolya - January 19th, 2009 at 11:40 pm

    Hi Ali Dahmash,

    Thanks for your interesting responses. I suspect that Hamas will want to control the rebuilding process in Gaza to cement it’s rule over the population. Even with the involvement of the UN I doubt that fair elections are likely to be held in Gaza. If Hamas is willing to shoot Fatah activists in the legs, I cannot see how they will embrace political competition. It will be impossible to convince Israel to leave the West Bank if there is the smallest risk of the West Bank also being used as a launch pad to attack Israel. So it looks like the best that can be achieved in the short run is to manage the conflict so that the human cost is minimized as much as possible.

    It would be nice if the Palestinians could unite politically and have some mechanism to control the use of violence by different political elements. From my perspective the first responsibility of government is to see to the basic security of it’s citizens. Provoking wars with powerful enemies seems to fundamentally violate this responsibility. But there seems to be another aspect to this conflict in terms of a quest for dignity that in the minds of some makes the sacrifice of blood and treasure worthwhile.

  12. #12 Ali Dahmash (Jordan) - January 28th, 2009 at 12:47 am

    Kolya, Michael, not all Palestinians elcted Hamas. Hamas is a liberation movement as much as the Irish Republican army that killed English civilians until they forced Britain to sit with them. Do not get me wrong here, I am totally against Hamas and killing civilians, but i am pro humanity and Israel killed innocent Palestinians. Palestinians are not ethnicaly divided but politicaly. They denounce Hamas violence and Fatah who are corrupted thugs. Palestinians elected Hamas because of the failure of Fatah, many Christian Palestinians voted for them. But the mistake that Israel, Arab Nations and the US did was not give Hamas the chance to fail. Israel started attacking them and killing civilians which gave Hamas more support in Gaza. Its a terrible situation now and my only concern now is to help the innocent civilains

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