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	<title>Comments on: Where You Draw The Line</title>
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	<link>http://www.mideastyouth.com/2009/01/17/where-you-draw-the-line/</link>
	<description>Thinking Ahead</description>
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		<title>By: Nissim Dahan</title>
		<link>http://www.mideastyouth.com/2009/01/17/where-you-draw-the-line/#comment-22198</link>
		<dc:creator>Nissim Dahan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jan 2009 19:15:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mideastyouth.com/2009/01/17/where-you-draw-the-line/#comment-22198</guid>
		<description>Gregory, the dichotomy you point to at the rallies, of those who support Israel no matter what, and of those who advocate the destruction of the Jewish state, points to the futility of expecting that strong emotions will win the day when it comes to peace.

People like to hear themselves talk, even at the expense of peace. We can either play the blame game, or we can sit down, hard as that may be, and do the hard work that is needed to first condition people for the possibility of peace, and then to actually cut a deal.

I often ask myself; What is harder, waging war, or making peace? I think that in the final analysis, making peace is harder than waging war. When you wage war, you fight for what you believe in, and we all feel good about fighting for what we believe. But when we make peace, we are often asked to give up some of what we believe in, for the sake of something we can believe in even more, like peace. And giving up some of what we believe in is very difficult. It&#039;s like giving up a part of ourselves.

For peace to happen, people will have to give up at least some of what they believe in, and will have to put on a shelf somewhere their emotions, in order to reinvent a better version of themselves.

&quot;...Israel has gone so far...&quot;

Shahrazad, it is hard to argue with that. War is hell, and whether you want to or not, you often do go too far. I think of the five beautiful girls who were killed on their horse-drawn carriage. That is going too far. And I think of the three beautiful daughters of the doctor, a moderate man, who were also killed. That&#039;s going too far as well.

But I look at these tragedies, horrible as they are, and I say to myself; How do we make it better? And I want to be that &quot;reptile,&quot; who may have emotions, but who certainly doesn&#039;t show it, and who goes about doing what needs to be done to make things better.

&quot;Israel is harming Jews more than what Hitler did.&quot;

I can&#039;t really agree with that statement, Shahrazad, even though there may be a hint of truth to it. Israel has brough a lot of good to the Jews, and actually, to the world at large, but it is also true that the endless need to fight is taking its toll on the spiritual essence of Jews.

You say that you have Jewish friends, and you know them to be good people, overall. Well, for the most part, even though there are always exceptions, that is how Jews are, and infact, that is how most people are around the world.
Jews do love peace, and Jews are taught to do good, and to leave this world a little better than they found it.

The fact that Israel finds itself trapped in an existential struggle for its survival is taking a toll on Jewish identity and spirituality.

Some people will look at Israel&#039;s military power and wonder how it is possible that Israel feels so threatened. Well, you brought up Hitler, and if he proved anything, it is that you can never take your survival for granted. The threat to one&#039;s survival has been a dominant theme in the history of the Jews. They were persecuted for some 2000 years, culminating in the Holocaust, which still stands out as one of the most evil acts perpetrated by the hand of man.

So I would agree with you that this war, and others like it, does not bring out the best version of Israel, and of Jews. Therefore, I believe that Israel has no choice but to be even more aggressive when it comes to making peace. Israel should fight for peace as hard as she fights for war. Israel is uniquely qualified, with her technology and her economy, to start the effort to revitalize the economies of the West Bank and of Gaza, and to use that effort as a starting point to broker a fair and lasting peace. Only in this way can Israel restore the promise of her founding, and the legacy of her people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gregory, the dichotomy you point to at the rallies, of those who support Israel no matter what, and of those who advocate the destruction of the Jewish state, points to the futility of expecting that strong emotions will win the day when it comes to peace.</p>
<p>People like to hear themselves talk, even at the expense of peace. We can either play the blame game, or we can sit down, hard as that may be, and do the hard work that is needed to first condition people for the possibility of peace, and then to actually cut a deal.</p>
<p>I often ask myself; What is harder, waging war, or making peace? I think that in the final analysis, making peace is harder than waging war. When you wage war, you fight for what you believe in, and we all feel good about fighting for what we believe. But when we make peace, we are often asked to give up some of what we believe in, for the sake of something we can believe in even more, like peace. And giving up some of what we believe in is very difficult. It&#8217;s like giving up a part of ourselves.</p>
<p>For peace to happen, people will have to give up at least some of what they believe in, and will have to put on a shelf somewhere their emotions, in order to reinvent a better version of themselves.</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230;Israel has gone so far&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>Shahrazad, it is hard to argue with that. War is hell, and whether you want to or not, you often do go too far. I think of the five beautiful girls who were killed on their horse-drawn carriage. That is going too far. And I think of the three beautiful daughters of the doctor, a moderate man, who were also killed. That&#8217;s going too far as well.</p>
<p>But I look at these tragedies, horrible as they are, and I say to myself; How do we make it better? And I want to be that &#8220;reptile,&#8221; who may have emotions, but who certainly doesn&#8217;t show it, and who goes about doing what needs to be done to make things better.</p>
<p>&#8220;Israel is harming Jews more than what Hitler did.&#8221;</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t really agree with that statement, Shahrazad, even though there may be a hint of truth to it. Israel has brough a lot of good to the Jews, and actually, to the world at large, but it is also true that the endless need to fight is taking its toll on the spiritual essence of Jews.</p>
<p>You say that you have Jewish friends, and you know them to be good people, overall. Well, for the most part, even though there are always exceptions, that is how Jews are, and infact, that is how most people are around the world.<br />
Jews do love peace, and Jews are taught to do good, and to leave this world a little better than they found it.</p>
<p>The fact that Israel finds itself trapped in an existential struggle for its survival is taking a toll on Jewish identity and spirituality.</p>
<p>Some people will look at Israel&#8217;s military power and wonder how it is possible that Israel feels so threatened. Well, you brought up Hitler, and if he proved anything, it is that you can never take your survival for granted. The threat to one&#8217;s survival has been a dominant theme in the history of the Jews. They were persecuted for some 2000 years, culminating in the Holocaust, which still stands out as one of the most evil acts perpetrated by the hand of man.</p>
<p>So I would agree with you that this war, and others like it, does not bring out the best version of Israel, and of Jews. Therefore, I believe that Israel has no choice but to be even more aggressive when it comes to making peace. Israel should fight for peace as hard as she fights for war. Israel is uniquely qualified, with her technology and her economy, to start the effort to revitalize the economies of the West Bank and of Gaza, and to use that effort as a starting point to broker a fair and lasting peace. Only in this way can Israel restore the promise of her founding, and the legacy of her people.</p>
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		<title>By: Shahrazad (Iran)</title>
		<link>http://www.mideastyouth.com/2009/01/17/where-you-draw-the-line/#comment-22197</link>
		<dc:creator>Shahrazad (Iran)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jan 2009 10:36:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mideastyouth.com/2009/01/17/where-you-draw-the-line/#comment-22197</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;It is almost impossible to “draw the line,” especially when strong emotions are blurring the line we’re trying to draw.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Actually there must be drawn a line. I am againt extremist. But my problem is that Israel has gone so far and nobody seems try to stop her. Iran is called terrorist for &quot;a sentence&quot;, why Israel shouldn&#039;t be called as terrorist, while &lt;em&gt;terrorising civillians is so easy for Israeli leaders to achieve their political goals as Omer mentioned?&lt;/em&gt; That&#039;s my point.

&lt;blockquote&gt;On the one hand we have people who will defend Israel no matter what. On the other hand we have people who will blame Israel no matter what.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Well, as the video shows, yes, there are some Israelis who defend Israel no matter what. But then i am sure those anti-war rallies (and people like Omer or Avraham Burg) know what&#039;s the &#039;matter&#039; of protesting. There is something wrong with Israeli politicians.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Maybe, if we were a little less emotional about things, we could sit down, like reptiles, and get down to the business of making peace.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

True. As i said i am so againt extremism. But then the call of &#039;wiping out&#039; has different result for sides of war. Iranian/Muslim emotion has not harmed people as much as Israeli emotion did. Brainwahsed Israeli emotion can murder 1300 civillians in 22 days.  And it&#039;s so horrible, sickening and unique in the history of humankind.

Israel is harming Jews more than what Hitler did. If Hitler claimed to remove Jews &#039;physically&#039;, Israel is removing Judaism &#039;mentally and spiritually&#039; too. That peaceful community of jews (that i know they are since i have good jew friends) are getting more hated around the world, while i know many of them even dont realise what&#039;s happening and are not part of story of Israeli sick politicians.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>It is almost impossible to “draw the line,” especially when strong emotions are blurring the line we’re trying to draw.</p></blockquote>
<p>Actually there must be drawn a line. I am againt extremist. But my problem is that Israel has gone so far and nobody seems try to stop her. Iran is called terrorist for &#8220;a sentence&#8221;, why Israel shouldn&#8217;t be called as terrorist, while <em>terrorising civillians is so easy for Israeli leaders to achieve their political goals as Omer mentioned?</em> That&#8217;s my point.</p>
<blockquote><p>On the one hand we have people who will defend Israel no matter what. On the other hand we have people who will blame Israel no matter what.</p></blockquote>
<p>Well, as the video shows, yes, there are some Israelis who defend Israel no matter what. But then i am sure those anti-war rallies (and people like Omer or Avraham Burg) know what&#8217;s the &#8216;matter&#8217; of protesting. There is something wrong with Israeli politicians.</p>
<blockquote><p>Maybe, if we were a little less emotional about things, we could sit down, like reptiles, and get down to the business of making peace.</p></blockquote>
<p>True. As i said i am so againt extremism. But then the call of &#8216;wiping out&#8217; has different result for sides of war. Iranian/Muslim emotion has not harmed people as much as Israeli emotion did. Brainwahsed Israeli emotion can murder 1300 civillians in 22 days.  And it&#8217;s so horrible, sickening and unique in the history of humankind.</p>
<p>Israel is harming Jews more than what Hitler did. If Hitler claimed to remove Jews &#8216;physically&#8217;, Israel is removing Judaism &#8216;mentally and spiritually&#8217; too. That peaceful community of jews (that i know they are since i have good jew friends) are getting more hated around the world, while i know many of them even dont realise what&#8217;s happening and are not part of story of Israeli sick politicians.</p>
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		<title>By: Gregory Friedman</title>
		<link>http://www.mideastyouth.com/2009/01/17/where-you-draw-the-line/#comment-22196</link>
		<dc:creator>Gregory Friedman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jan 2009 00:12:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mideastyouth.com/2009/01/17/where-you-draw-the-line/#comment-22196</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve seen the video of the &quot;pro-Israel&quot; rally and it makes my skin crawl.

Yet there were also those at &quot;peace activists&quot; at rallies held in solidarity with the Palestinians chanting holding signs calling for &quot;Palestine to be free from the river to the sea&quot; and voicing support for Hamas. I suppose some people just need to learn how to shut-up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve seen the video of the &#8220;pro-Israel&#8221; rally and it makes my skin crawl.</p>
<p>Yet there were also those at &#8220;peace activists&#8221; at rallies held in solidarity with the Palestinians chanting holding signs calling for &#8220;Palestine to be free from the river to the sea&#8221; and voicing support for Hamas. I suppose some people just need to learn how to shut-up.</p>
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		<title>By: Where You Draw The Line &#171; Shahrazad</title>
		<link>http://www.mideastyouth.com/2009/01/17/where-you-draw-the-line/#comment-22195</link>
		<dc:creator>Where You Draw The Line &#171; Shahrazad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jan 2009 20:18:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mideastyouth.com/2009/01/17/where-you-draw-the-line/#comment-22195</guid>
		<description>[...] Has been cross-posted on Mideast Youth    Posted in Death, Human Rights, Humanity, Iran, Israel, Middle east, Palestine, Politics, Racism, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Has been cross-posted on Mideast Youth    Posted in Death, Human Rights, Humanity, Iran, Israel, Middle east, Palestine, Politics, Racism, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Nissim Dahan (Israel/USA)</title>
		<link>http://www.mideastyouth.com/2009/01/17/where-you-draw-the-line/#comment-22194</link>
		<dc:creator>Nissim Dahan (Israel/USA)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jan 2009 19:48:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mideastyouth.com/2009/01/17/where-you-draw-the-line/#comment-22194</guid>
		<description>It is almost impossible to &quot;draw the line,&quot; especially when strong emotions are blurring the line we&#039;re trying to draw.

On the one hand we have people who will defend Israel no matter what.

On the other hand we have people who will blame Israel no matter what.

And both of these groups are energized by strong emotions, emotions which seem to have a life of their own, and which often blur the line between right and wrong. So who is right and who is wrong?

Sometimes I have the feeling that emotions, one way or the other, can obscure the truth, since the truth of a matter is usually somewhere in the middle between two extremes. Truth is not an extremist position. It usually lies somewhere in the middle between extremist positions. There is usually some truth on all sides of any given question.

It may behoove us, at times, to pretend that we are not human, but reptiles, sitting on a rock somewhere, soaking in the sun, and waiting for some food to show up. Retiles have been around a pretty long time, much longer than us. They don&#039;t seem terribly bothered by emotion. They go about their business doing what they have to do to survive. Can we learn something from them?

Maybe, if we were a little less emotional about things, we could sit down, like reptiles, and get down to the business of making peace. We will be cool, and calculating, and rational, and yes, even cold-blooded, in making the decisions, and taking the steps, that are needed to broker the peace, instead of yelling hysterically at one another about why it&#039;s not already there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is almost impossible to &#8220;draw the line,&#8221; especially when strong emotions are blurring the line we&#8217;re trying to draw.</p>
<p>On the one hand we have people who will defend Israel no matter what.</p>
<p>On the other hand we have people who will blame Israel no matter what.</p>
<p>And both of these groups are energized by strong emotions, emotions which seem to have a life of their own, and which often blur the line between right and wrong. So who is right and who is wrong?</p>
<p>Sometimes I have the feeling that emotions, one way or the other, can obscure the truth, since the truth of a matter is usually somewhere in the middle between two extremes. Truth is not an extremist position. It usually lies somewhere in the middle between extremist positions. There is usually some truth on all sides of any given question.</p>
<p>It may behoove us, at times, to pretend that we are not human, but reptiles, sitting on a rock somewhere, soaking in the sun, and waiting for some food to show up. Retiles have been around a pretty long time, much longer than us. They don&#8217;t seem terribly bothered by emotion. They go about their business doing what they have to do to survive. Can we learn something from them?</p>
<p>Maybe, if we were a little less emotional about things, we could sit down, like reptiles, and get down to the business of making peace. We will be cool, and calculating, and rational, and yes, even cold-blooded, in making the decisions, and taking the steps, that are needed to broker the peace, instead of yelling hysterically at one another about why it&#8217;s not already there.</p>
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