When Freedom of Expression is abused it will backfire – lesson learnt (or in progress of being so) for Dutch Geert Wilder
Geert Wilders is a name that has left people talking from all parts of the world. For a while the outspoken Party Leader has raised his strong views of Islam and the “jeopardising” European freedom caused by the rise of Islam. Banning the “fascist” Islamic Holy Book, the Qur’an, is enough to say how opposed to Islam this far-right Dutch MP is.
Back in March 2008 Wilders released a controversial and damaging film, Fitna, on Islam. No TV company was willing to broadcast it and some politicians in the Netherlands tried to ban it. To the eyes of many this has gone too far. The Dutch Government feared another ride of the cartoon furore in the Muslim World especially for the Dutch abroad. The film “Fitna” juxtaposed pages from the Qur’an with scenes of torture, violence and linking to Adolf Hitler’s Mein Kampf.
When a TV interview explained the impact that this film had on people Wilders replied with “It’s not the aim of the movie but people might be offended, I know that. So, what the hell? It’s their problem, not my problem”.
In June that same year the Authority overturned the ruling of the Dutch Prosecution Services despite all the hundreds of complaints that poured through. Last Wednesday the court reasoned that the Criminal Prosecution did not argue with Wilders right to freedom of expression and confirmed that it purely based its decision on the standards set by the European Court of Human Rights. Now, he will face his prosecution.
Incredibly, the 45-year-old peroxide leader of the extremist Freedom Party PVV does not understand why the second highest legal authority in the country, the Amsterdam Appeals Court, allowed his criminal prosecution to go ahead. Simple, clear and obvious – it’s for the very reason that he has made himself an icon – for inciting hate, discriminating Muslims and comparing Islam to Nazism.
“This was the last thing I expected. The fact that I can no longer speak openly but have to go before the court makes this a very black day, not just for me but for freedom of expression in this country” was Wilders “stunned” response to the “accusations” made despite it all being backed up with startling evidence. The very film that he made ever so proudly has been the biggest evidence to play against him.
“What I do is to express my opinion on behalf of half a million people who voted for me and who think it should be possible to critise Islam. We are fed up with “Islamisation” of the Netherlands”. There is a clear line between what you can say and what you cannot say, the disturbing part is that he can not see that line.
To stand aginst the second highest power in the country and demand respect for your point of views that are disrespectful to others, then why is it such a suprise. Just because things have been quiet for a while does not mean that it is acceptable. Everyone has that Freedom of expression. Everyone can express themselves but no one can not make up the rules of Freedom. Those that do will suffer the consequences and that is what Wilders is about to learn. Freedom is a peaceful part of life and peace is a place where the narrow-minded fools will never be able to find. Peace does not lie to getting rid of a race or rid of religion. Peace is from within: acceptance, understanding, and respect. None of which Wilders has.
This story is somewhat ironic: the very man complaining that his freedom is being taken away is the very same man that took away the freedom for Muslims by banning the Qur’an.
“Mr Wilders is a very gifted and talented politician. All TV programmes are about his movie: he knows how to play with the media, how to dominate the public debate. The problem was and is that he is a monomaniac, but not in a pejorative sense” was how Bart Jan Spruyt, a TV Presenter, described Wilders whom he met when Wilders set up the Freedom Group. Those days of the PVV were short lived, “I have to admit it was the most naive thing I’ve ever done in my life.”
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“When Freedom of Expression is abused it will backfire”
I hope the Islamists realize that someday.
Aren’t you just the little innocents. You’re liars, perpetual victims and you never practice what you preach. Get out of our Western countries. You’re destroying them and you know it.
Financier Albert Howard is the creator of Operation “King of Islam” which seeks to ban the Quran and all mosques in North America, Europe and Canada.
This kind of talk is against our comment policy but I’m leaving it here to show everyone the kind of abusive bigotry many Muslims must suffer through.
Isn’t it funny that ignorance amongst people like Wilders and his clueless supporters is so apparent that they would treat Islam like a race as opposed to a religion? “Get out of our Western countries” – tell that to the non-immigrant European and American Muslims and converts who were born and raised there like everyone else. By kicking them out you’d clearly be abusing their human rights, which includes the right to practice their religion. You discriminate against them in ways that you would never allow yourself to be.
The hypocracy in such backwards and violent mentalities is just too overwhelming, especially when certain people behave in this despicable manner while claiming that the West has “higher morals” than anywhere in the Muslim world, when clearly that’s far from the case.
The Wilders trial is not about the abuse of freedom of expression per se. It is about the conflict of two provisions in the Dutch constitution: freedom of expression (Art. 7) and prohibition of discrimination (Art. 1) (see http://www.servat.unibe.ch/law/icl/nl00000_.html for an English version of the Dutch constitution). It remains to be seen if he will be convicted in the end, it will probably take years to see if this will happen.
I think the discussion should not be about the extend to which Wilders’ and his followers’ ideas are despicable and ignorant. There will always be extremists in society and people tend to be susceptible to demagogues, especially in a world that is so volatile and uncertain. What we should think about is how to react to such forces in society. I’m generally happy with the way politicians and organizations reacted to Wilders. Muslim organizations strongly condemned Fitna, but did not resort to violence or take extreme positions. Politicians attacked Wilders’ views on its substance, in stead of labelling him too much. The Dutch government used its diplomatic organs to temper the international reaction. Wilders’ prosecution is the next step in the process, I personally hope he will be convicted, as his remarks crossed the line of stigmatisation.
Still, there are some worrying trends in our society that are probably more dangerous: both Wilders and Gerard Spong, the lawyer that prosecutes him, receive death threats and need to be protected by body guards. These acts of political violence are the most serious threats to our constitutional state, like the murders of Theo van Gogh and Pim Fortuyn.
If we believe in peace we should not let persons like Wilders and others capture our emotions and drive a wedge between us. We should keep our heads cool and use the rational and legal tools we have to battle them.
Wow,
So, Geert Wilders is being prosecuted for blasphemy. Great.
Who cares really? There will always be people paranoid about their lands being “taken-over” by some alien element. Yesterday it was the jews, today it’s the ragheads, who knows who it will be tomorrow? I am an American Muslim (not born in the U.S. but in the mideast). I am very well educated, very affluent (rich by most standards) and a perfect blend into my society. I would never harm a fly, I am honest to a fault, and I am extremely modest. I give to charity, I try to be a positive influence to those around me. This the way my parents raised me and it is the way every Muslim that I know has been raised.
This talk about Muslims being perpetual liars and victims is really funny. I can only imagine what kind of person is writing these words, but I get the sense that he’s never met a Muslim in his life and he’s probably afraid of his own shadow.
Having said this, I would like to know those that hate Muslims if they have any real conception of what is going on in the middle east and how the west influences their politics. Pub, do you just wish to ignore that millions upon millions of Iraqis are either refugees or dead due to an illegal war waged by the U.S. for one reason: that Saddam Hussein threatened to price Iraqi oil in Euros (as opposed to U.S. dollars as has always been the case)? Anyone that thinks this war was about liberating the Iraqi people is misguided at best, a downright idiot at worst. Pub, which one of these are you? Do you realize that terrorism is the reaction of the massive injustice and oppression falling upon arabs due to the politics of the west? A full 5000 U.S. troops are on guard to protect the Saudi monarchy, one of the most brutal dictatorships in the world today. The U.S. supports and protects Mubarak in Egypt, who is no more a lapdog for America and Israel. The U.S. overthrew the DEMOCRATICALLY elected leader of Iran, causing the Islamic revolution decades later. What about Israel? Who can apologize for what they’ve done to the Palestinians? I would love to see how Pub would handle a situation where his farm, which he has worked for 40 years, suddenly one day is occupied by an Israeli, with an entourage of Israeli troops behind him, telling him to go to hell.
These facts are often overlooked, if learned at all and the result is the world see Muslims as maniacal, fanatical killers that want to blow up everything that doesn’t look and act like them. I’m sorry, but nothing is further from the truth.
Peace and justice is the only way forward
NTY
People get criticized all the time if fear mongering and hate speech is their raison d’etre. You’re only pissed at this case because you agree and support Wilders, otherwise it wouldn’t matter. If this were a case of anti-Semitism, you’d be calling for the hater’s head. But since Wilders is merely an Islamophobe, yeah sure, let’s all support the bigotry in favor of “free speech.” It’s not hypocritical at all.
Fine, cricize Wilders all you want. I don’t have a problem with that. Criticize George Bush and America all you want as well. I don’t care. Go ahead and criticize Judaism and Christianity too. But, to bring a criminal prosecution for criticizing a religion is bringing back the blasphemy laws. That is a step backwards, in my opinion. Do you really think it was a crime for Wilders to point out that Osama bin Laden used the Koran to inspire and justify the attacks on 9-11 ? Don’t be mad at Wilders, be mad at Osama.
Well, Esra’a, you really don’t know me well enough to say what I would or wouldn’t do in a given situation. Actually, I don’t even use the words “anti-semite” or “anti-semitism”. They’re just not in my regualr vocabulary. I prefer to debate ideas, not throw labels around. Can you show me any post where I’ve called for anyone’s head ? That’s right. I didn’t think so.
Respectfully,
Derek
I’m not mad. Wilders is not worthy enough to inspire such emotion. I’m actually irritated at both you and Wilders for taking things out of context and trying to build an image that doesn’t exist, i.e that the Quran is “retarded” and that all Muslims are terrorists. With the statement of yours that I quoted above you’re implying he’s stating the facts and that’s far from the case. Calling a holy book “retarded” is not factual neither is labeling an entire nation. These are stereotypes often used by children. Wilders is just repeating them because he saw an opportunity for fame and took it; the only reason people are reacting is because it actually inspires violence and hatred towards Muslims and allows everyone to openly discriminate against them because Wilders’ shallow work makes it okay for them to do so.
Despite him saying more than once that Muslims are “stupid” we have the brain cells required to know what he’s saying, and the kind of violence that results from it.
People criticize Islam every day and Wilders didn’t do that. He didn’t write an intellectual essay or created a level-headed documentary that featured actual Muslims, or tried to understand the root causes of extremism. He chose a childish approach that went beyond criticism into the world that supports violent Islamophobia and that’s what outraged both Muslims and non-Muslims alike. If you support that then you do justify incitement to violence and hatred, and that’s hardly putting “free speech” to actual use, it’s simply abusing that right to spew moronic things that invite discrimination and violence against others. In many places it’s against the law to deny the Holocaust or the Armenian genocide and that isn’t considered a limit to free speech in such countries, that’s making sure people have enough decency, standards and values not to resort to it.
Well then arguing with Wilders will be great fun. Without labels Wilders’ poorly produced videos would be reduced to a footnote. There’s a difference between an actual debate and trash conversations that revolve around violently labeling an entire religion and its followers. Wilders chose the latter.
Wilders is right to stop the Islamisering. He should stop at the same time the Judisering, the Catholisering and the other religions. Wilders is a Zionist and therefore biased in his opposition to one religion alone. Sorry Wilders, my shoe.
When I can walk in Riyad with my GF in a shorts in one hand and a Heiniken in the other, I will accept a Mosque and a burka in my country, not before.
Esra’a,
First, I would never say all Muslims are terrorists. That is just stupid.
I noticed you used some form of the word, “violence” six times in your above post, as if repeating it will make it true. Well, either Wilder’s film incited violence or it didn’t. That movie has been out for almost one year. Millions of people have seen it. I challenge you to cite one incident of violence against Muslims because of that film. If you can’t cite one, then, ipso facto, Geert Wilders is not guilty of inciting violence.
Before you judge me, I wish you would take the time to know me better. For example, I support muslim businesses in my area. I always go to the same gas station BECAUSE the owners are muslim. Well, that’s not the only reason. They are also nice, polite, and honest business people. For what it’s worth…
Derek
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Well, all the political rhetoric aside, I agree with my counterpart in the Netherlands about this development. “Mr. Pompador” has been charged after hundreds of people, likely both Muslim and non-Muslim, took the time to make formal complaints about his public demonstration of bigotry. While freedom of expression is and should be a cherished right, there are limits, and most western nations have quite specific legal codes governing this. The guy gets far too much press for my tastes; hopefully this will provide enough of a comeuppance to relegate him to the fringes of society where he belongs.
That said, the ongoing death threats and spectre of “vigilante justice” from what is assumedly some of the more enthusiastic members of the Muslim community is just as deplorable. Such actions serve no useful purpose and in fact add fuel to the attitudes of Islamaphobia.
I saw the short film Fitna and it didn’t incite any hatred towards Muslims or make me want to be violent towards any Muslims. I still support a list of moderate and reformists Muslims. I even support one reformists group financially. I don’t see what the big deal is about the film. They were direct quotes out of the Koran, and the actors were live footages of real Muslims. That’s called reality. I don’t like people who try to suppress free speech and artistic expression. Google Piss Christ. Christians, Jews and other religions aren’t suing like Muslims are to silence people. Susanne Winters of Austria was fined $31,000 and sentenced to 3 months in prison for saying Mohammed was a pedophile. Hello? Aisha? Now the former Muslim turned Coptic Priest Boutros is being harrassed by CAIR and other Muslims to not read from the Koran or Hadiths suras because they say he’s defaming Mohammed. Why are Muslims so afraid of the truth? I think it’s ridiculous and childish that Geert Wilders is being sued. If you live in America, Europe or Australia and you aren’t for free speech, then I don’t want you here, and you can call me an Islamaphobe, bigot, racist, which Muslims are constantly accusing people of being, but I know I’m not.
Sorry Babs,
You don’t have the right to know what those extremists are thinking, saying, and doing.
Derek
Firstly, it’s a pathetic stretch to claim that this film proposes “the truth.” This film does nothing other than provoke – it informs others of nothing at all, and it’s in fact an insult to film-making. Everything within it is firmly against what we believe, so it’s arrogant to declare an inaccurate opinion as the “truth.”
Secondly, your comment includes no refutation of any arguments against Wilders, and no clear understanding of the responsibility that free speech actually comes with, and apparently no respect for those who are different. I was surprised you thought that criticism of Wilders is childish when you claim things like “Muslims are scared of the truth.” Yeah, a population of more than 1 billion are “scared” of the “truth,” because dismissing an entire population of 1 billion as “scared” and somewhat “clueless” is not childish at all!
Imagine I said “Babs is really stupid,” and then you say, “that is not true at all, and please be respectful.” And then I say, “Babs reacted this way because he/she’s scared of the truth!” You’re using the exact same logic here. It makes no sense and is offensive to say the least.
Somehow it seems that you would have no problem at all if someone is being sued for questioning the Holocaust, which has happened, and in fact people have been imprisoned for it. If so, then this is irony and hypocrisy at its best. I don’t see anyone fighting for “free speech” when people are sued and imprisoned for hate speech against non-Muslims; it’s always been justified, and rightly so. But if Muslims are the target of hatred and violence, no outrage whatsoever.
Let me guess which one, “Muslims Against Sharia”? That group does not consist of actual Muslims, hence the fact that their “blogroll” is made up of Ex-Muslims whose careers rely on attacking Islam and insulting Muslims quite mercilessly. That’s besides the fact that they attempt to change the entire Quran, which is strongly forbidden in our faith. It’s a laughable group which very few people take seriously.
If that’s not the group in question, tell us which one. I’d love to know which “Muslim group” you’re supporting if you think we’re all clueless and apparently “scared of the truth.”
Derek,
No one’s questioning anyone’s rights here. But there’s a line when it comes to free speech. I explained this thoroughly in a previous comment.
The most outspoken critics of Islam are Muslims themselves. This is a fact. People like Wilders are neither courageous nor are they proposing an actual solution other than violence and discrimination, they are merely loud-mouthed fools with no respect or understanding for others despite the fact that the majority of Muslims are far from extremists. The hatred you support doesn’t change the reality of the situation, it just shows us how far bigotry has come to. Wilders is an extremist in his own sense, because calling a holy book “retarded” and rallying up so many people against innocent Muslims, is extreme. We’re all against terrorism here, but we’re all against hate speech and racism too (and his stance on immigrants is frankly racist.)
My colleagues and I are Muslims and we fight extremism every day, and we risk our lives for it. What do Wilders and his supporters do other than hate and discriminate? Nothing.
You people need to learn something from this initiative. Once upon a time, being against hatred and bigotry was common sense. Now people actually have to campaign in order to convey such an obvious message of decency. How tragic this world has become.
f it was wrong for European Jews to take away Palestinian land, it’s equally wrong for European Christians to do the same with America’s native tribes. They did exactly what the Israelis are now doing to the Palestinians. They starved and poisoned them. They systematically destroyed the economic foundations of their existence. They outnumbered them and pushed them back with waves and waves of new immigrants. They bribed and blackmailed their leaders. Or they provoked them to hostilities to have an excuse to disproportionially retaliate. They even supplied them with the weapons and paid them to attack.
That’s the real reason why Americans have no sympathy for the Palestinian resistance. Hamas and Hezbollah are doing exactly what the native American tribes should have done. If Pocahontas’ father had known what was going to happen to his people, he would have killed every single white man, woman and child who ever set foot on American soil. In this clash between civilisations there are no civilians. The Palestinian resistance has the right and duty to kill as many Israelis as it takes for the rest of them to pack and leave for good. Not many Americans will be able to accept that.
What you say is just your opinion, and I totally disagree with everything you say. I have the freedom to say the same thing that Thomas Jefferson said about religion and that is that “Religions are all alike-founded upon fables and mythologies.” I respect some religions more than others. Some have prophets I don’t think were prophets at all, and I don’t consider them religions. I’m not against individual Muslims. I’m against political Islam, Islamofacism, and Shariah law. If a woman wants to wear a chador, that’s her freedom of choice. I hated wearing one the couple times I did in Iran. I’ve seen the men and boys beating themselves bloody in the streets of Tehran during Ashura, and I don’t respect it one bit. I won’t tolerate it or shariah law or honor killings either in America, but Shariah and honor killings are already happening here. Sorry Derek, but you don’t have the right to tell me that I don’t have the right to know what the terrorists are saying and doing because I’ve watched their videos of them shout Allah Akbar before cutting off somebody’s head. I’ve heard the threatening hate speeches of the Muslim clerics and imams waging Jihad against the West and non-Muslims on the videos they produce and on hidden camera videos. I can give you the links, videos or pics. I even have a video of a 12 year old Taliban boy cutting off his first head. It’s in my Koran for Muslims to behead and strike off the fingertips. I have pics of that tooand a video of shariah punishment on a man in Iran getting his penis cut off. A pic of an 8 year old boy in Iran getting his arm run over by a car as punishment for stealing bread. I have a million pics and articles that have “offended” me. I’m sick of the hatred and incitement towards violence towards me and toward Jews, and I think we should sue. I see exactly the point Geert Wilders was making and that is that certain Muslim extremists and terrorists hate non-Muslims and want to torture and kill us just like they did in Mumbai. The doctors said the sexual mutulation on the Rabbi and his wife was so horrible they couldn’t even talk about it. Go to http://www.reformislam.org and you’ll see all the hate filled quotes Muslims have directed towards non-Muslims. The founder of Muslims Against Shariah is a Muslim. You say you’re fighting extremists every day. What are you doing? How do you as a woman shut those clerics up who tell of the people in the mosque to wage Jihad on us? Of course, anybody with half a brain knows not to blame all Muslims for the acts of some. What I don’t like is that ‘moderate?’ Muslims will get on the defensive immediately and use the words ‘bigot’, ‘racist,’ ‘Islamaphobe, or ‘offended.’ You forgot to use the word Islamaphobe. Just once I’d like to have a conversation with a Muslim without them using those same boring words. In America you can piss on a statue of Jesus and not get arrested. I want “offended” Muslims to shut up. They are alienating themselves even more from non-Muslims. I think every person should read the Koran and Hadiths. That was enough for me to totally and completely hate that ‘religion of peace.’ Free Speech or Die. Free Geert Wilders. Give Susanne Winters back her $31,000. CAIR, leave Father Boutros alone. Now, abrogate this!!!
So you’ve basically summarized every stereotype against the entire Muslim population and then after saying this:
You react no differently:
Sounds good. Put me through to your lawyer. Our 1.4 billion population will await the documents.
See you at court Babs!
“I’m against political Islam, Islamofacism, and Shariah law.” And then I gave examples of such. I also said, “Anybody with half a brain knows not to blame all Muslims for the actions of some.” And yet you accuse me of “summarizing every sterotype against the entire Muslim population!” No I didn’t. It’s impossible to have a conversation with most of you moderates. It’s the individual imans and clerics and the leaders of CAIR that I would like to sue for inciting hatred and violence towards non-Muslims, not all Muslims. How ridiculous you are! Of course, a lot of the leaders of CAIR are already in prison so I don’t have to worry about that. I don’t understand why Muslims aren’t suing these people for inciting acts of violence. How exactly are you and other Muslims fighting extremism? I know of Project Shariah but that is time consuming. Their findings do get sent to the FBI though. I’m glad the FBI has cut off ties with CAIR now. The only reason the world Muslim population is growing is because men are allowed up to 4 wives, and each one can have children. All children are born Muslim and they can never leave. It’s apostacy and punishable by death. If they do leave, they usually have fatwas put on them. Muslims move in to a country like Lebanon, for instance, and then as their population increases they start demanding concessions to their religion. Eventually, you’re given the ultimatum of paying the jizya, death, or converting. Then you have people like the Lebonese Christian Bridgett Gabriel hiding for years and finally escaping with the help of Jews into freedom. Have you heard her tell her story? There are still more Christians in the world, and if I had to side with a religion, I respect the teachings and actions of Jesus. I do believe in God but not the God of Abraham. I have two friends who are Sufis and I just keep my opinions to myself out of respect for our friendship. If they knew what I knew and thought about Mohammed, I don’t know how they would react. I’d rather have their friendship. They are both converts. One didn’t even know about the verse of the sword!!!
None of them are actually informed, they consist of redundant and immature stereotypes.
Wow, that just says a LOT about your educational level. Sadness.
We’re waiting for the court documents Babs. Come and sue us.
This whole site is a fight against extremism. I’m assuming you didn’t bother reading anything on here beyond this post before making petty judgements? This project (and many others we run) revolves around spreading a culture of dialogue and defending minorities. People condemn extremism in every form in pretty much every entry, and while not all authors are Muslims, many of us are and represent a variety of different backgrounds. We have no problem with our Jewish, Christian, Baha’i, etc neighbors and spend the majority of our time defending their human rights. Take a look around at the other posts and our authors and then reconsider the shallow stereotypes that you’re trying so hard to pass off as “reality” or factual information when none of it could be further from the truth.
How are YOU fighting extremism? I mean other than expressing your disgust with our Holy Book, encouraging hate speech, and threatening to sue Muslims on the internet!
I really enjoyed the article about Islam Religion of Peace and all the comments that followed. I’ve signed a million petitions and written a million letters even to Obama about securing our borders and tightening up security, stopping immigration in, and eliminating the terror cells of Al-Qeada, Hamas, Hezbollah and others that exhist right now in America. I’ve started a folder with evidence of extremists who incite hatred and violence towards America or non-Muslims. I’ll keep you in mind as a possible donator towards the lawyer fees since you want to fight the extremists who are trying to hijack your religion.
No thanks, I don’t finance severe racism or abusive bigotry. I’d suggest you save up your fees for a higher education so that you can understand the world around you better.
Good luck. Was nice catching up with the kind of ignorance we still have to deal with on a daily basis from people of your ilk.
AMEN!
Babs,
Actually, I was being sarcastic. Of course I think you have the right to view Wilders film.
ok, apparently I’m not so great at using the b-qoute function, as what was meant to be boxed off was Esra’a's qoute at the begining of my comment, not what followed it….sorry….