You are progressive in your views about identity, some would even say you’re post-modern in your approach.
I can provide you with links to hundreds of websites that support the Israeli narrative, that says that there was to expulsion. The truth, I think, is somewhere in the middle. I think wikipedia has a good article that covers all points of view: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_the_1948_Palestinian_exodus
When discussing refugees, we should also remember that hundreds of thousands Jews from Arab lands fled\were expelled following the 1948 war.
Eva doesn’t represent what most Israelis think. If all Israelis were like her, and all Palestinians were like you, we could forget about borders altogether.
All the best, Mr. Sami
The Zionist

first i am not progressive… I am just a premitive bedouin still roaming the desert with his camels

second, Only Dair Yassin? please dont muck my little head… I only gave you Haifa as an example out of 63, 000 ony 300 remained.. and look at Haifa now to see their homes
http://www.palestineremembered.com
and see in details.
who is oppressing the other and want to kill him?…. please Read Eva’s story: Eva ferraro; an Israeli lady whom I know personally and she’s a writer at this forum

the problem… which you will discover by Eva, is that you are totally ignorant of what is going on here, in this holy land and you are only subject to Hasbara of the government…. I tell you, most of the Palestinians are like me… and I say just like Mahmoud darwish in His poem: I dont hate people, nor steal others. But if I tortured and got hungry, i will eat the flesh of my enimy/// I am am so primitive…beware of me Lady

All the best Lady Elizabeth
the bdouin

You are correct in saying that Zchut haShiva for Jews is the opposite of the right of the return for the Palestinian refugees. But Israel isn’t saying that the Palestinians have to displaced forever, but that the solution to those refugees from 1948 will be in the future Palestinian state.
There is little credible proof that Palestinians were forced out of their homes, or massacred, except for Dir Yasin. There is plenty of proof that the Palestinians expected the intervention of the Arab nations to succeed in destroying Israel. They left out of fear, because of the war, and thought that they will be able to return to their homes soon. This is also why the Palestinian leadership rejected the UN partition plan in 1947, while the Jews accepted it. The Palestinians weren’t ready to share the land and preferred to wait for Arab victory and have the whole land for themselves.
Not all Palestinians and Israelis are like you. I have no problem with someone progressive like you being my neighbor, but some Palestinians, if he’s my neighbor, given the chance, will kill me. I don’t want them as neighbors. This is why the idea of a bi-national state is a suicide for Israel. All those claiming that Zionists are Nazis should also prefer to have a state of their own, rather than have those “killers” for neighbors.

No, I dont agree that the jews to segregate themselves in their Ghetto of a “jewish state”, they should get out of their cage they are living in, the cage of both the geographical place and the mentality… just open up and be like all other religions not based of gene!!

Second you oppose the “right to return” at the time you enthusiastically support the “Zchut ha sheva” the right to return for every jew in the world. Why? Isnt this racist and close-minded way of thinking; the jew got the right while me, who was expelled from Ashdod and my home was given to a Russian jew is forbidden and derprived from my right that is garanteed by the International Law and the UN resolutions. Why? just because “Aam Yezrael” doesnt want to see the arabs whom they kicked out and demolished their home and villages come back to reconciliate with history and place?… how about if the Palestinian refugees want to came and reconciliate with israel and forget about the past? suer you would say no!! because you simply prefer your mental and geographical tribalistic Ghetto…. I dont like seeing the Jews in the Ghetto again!!… I want them to be my brothers living on ONE state for us all but not each in his own Ghetto!! I dont see in the West Bank any kind of State but waiting for the coming Bosnia, specially with these fanatic settlers who are armed to teeth… No lady, I am not racist Nazi to put you in the Ghetto again!!!

I think you are mixing the occupation, which must end, and Zionism, which is a legitimate national movement that can be compatible with a Palestinians state in the 1967 borders (no “right of return”, though).
I am not saying that the policies of the occupation are moral, and most of the things you described are not justified (except for assassinating terrorists that you call “leadership”). What I’m saying is that those policies stem from fear, and not from hatred or racism. You accuse me of being closed in an ideological ghetto, while you yourself refuse to see Jews as people who have the right to live in a country of their own.
I think I’ll write a post about it, because all my comments combined together, by now, would make up a whole post.

I believe the only way is to have ONE State for all otherwise both of us would keep segregating himself in his own Ghetto and alienating the other as inhuman devil. There is no other way, but reconciliation over our tribalism that devastates the minds before it deepens the hatred. I believe you dont want to live in the Ghetto again at the time I see israel is leading its people to live in their Ghetto of the “Jewish State” isolated geographically and culturally from the surrounding arab world!!!

However,

For Elezabeth it seems that the distance between my way of thinking and yours on one hand, and between your discourse and the the real situation is so vast and unbridgeable. It is so difficult to convince someone who is segregated in his own ghetto of ideology and cant see the other but alien and “other’ and not from “our chosen people”.

We need to liberate ourselves from our own narrow mentality of “we” and the “other” Elizabeth. I am trying to understand and internalize the “other’s” mentality as a peer who worth sharing me my land on a human basis but not to occupy me, oppress me, concentrate me in a camp like that of Gaza and at the end denies me dignified life and speak of HIS “chosen people” on HIS “historic land”…. and blaming me for not being “good enough” to understand his racist mentality and practice!!

So, our leadership is a

“bad leadership, which constantly gets elected”

and doesnt do much for its electors!!! so, I am to be blamed not the oppressor: Let me tell you Mrs. Elizabeth that Israel since over 70 years (even before its establishment) is “killing” systematically our leadership and the most prominent in intellectuals to prevent us the a healthy and able leadership. Just thirty years ago there was nothing called Palestinian people for them… and even now when it is a fighting reality of a threatening number it is also not a people but aindividuals living there (by chance) for Mr. Netanyahu….

Our leadership is Abu-Jehad (assassinated), Abu-Ammar (assassinated), Ghassan Kanafani (assassinated intellectual), Dr. Azmi Bishara (assassinated politically and alienated)…. you want me to number hundreds of our prominent intellectuals and leaders who were assassinated Literally, politically, culturally…etc since 70 years? … And when there is a leadership it is Irrelevant to peace process (like Arafat for being “terrorist”, and Mahmoud Abbas now for being “weak”). They are just looking for an excuse to withdraw from peace and build their own State of Settlers in the West Bank, to complete the circle and take all historic Palestine!!…. and our leadership is finally “bad” for Mrs. Elizabeth.

Demolition houses: Dear, it seems that you forgot demolishing over 450 towns and villages in the 40s and the constant demolishing is going on (now and here) everywhere in Palestine…. It is a well coherent systematic way of demolishing that “Aam Yezrael” is using to to kill any hope for the Palestinian in a dignified life… just last year I received two notices to demolish my own home and I am waiting for it to be demolished for the third time…. The hell Dear Lady!!

Israel is a racist regime that discriminates in all aspects of our life; education, services, police, army, roads, politics, culture… to keep us servant for their “Aam Yezrael”…. it seems that you dont see farther than your neighborhood lady. Just have a look at Nazereth and Netzeret-Elite to compare and see… look at how they demolish the bedouin houses and huts in the Negev to take their land and stack them in concentration camps, …look at the arab neighborhoods of Haifa, Akko, Jaffa and compare!!!…. Look how they suffocate the Palestinians with over 650 checkpoints and protect the settlers to rampage the West Bank free burning the fields and uprooting the olive trees of the Palestinians… Dont you see that? Or you just see the very “human” zionism”?

Israel is a racist regime with trabalistic ideology in its very “Legal” system, politics, miniseries, polices….. all in all a “very democratic” racist system!! … Israel is for Aam Yezrael and by definition “jewish state” is racist, and I am not ready to recognize a racist regime!! Yes, it is very democratic for the settlers ,,, but the hell with them in the concentration camp of Gaza!!!
This is the tribalism that sees no problem to dehumanize the other and glorify “the chosen people”… open your eyes reverent Lady!!

If you don’t look at the larger ideology and perceptions behind actions, it’s easy to misunderstand them. If you disregard the existence of “HaAm haYehudi” (the Jewish people), of course it would seem as if we’re being racist. Even having borders, anywhere, would seem that way.
The new Jewish immigrants, coming from Russia, for example are known to be primarily right-wing voters. Half the votes for Lieberman’s party in this election came from Russian immigrants. It won’t be correct to say that immigrant become “poisoned” with Zionism in Israel, because many of them make the decision to come to Israel out of Zionist thinking. If anything, living in Israel, becoming well aware of the flaws of the political/economic system, makes people less Zionist or even completely disillusioned with it. The biggest Zionists I know actually live in the US.
Israeli discrimination toward Arab Israelis is based, in part, because of marginalization of that society due to fear. Policies in the early decades of the state of Israel prevented Arabs from realizing their potential, hindering development of the community as a whole. But these policies weren’t based on hate and racism, but fear that Arab Israelis are aligned with Israel’s enemies, can’t be trusted, and therefore don’t deserve to get the same benefits Jews get. Another reason, for the current state of Arabs in Israel is bad leadership, which constantly gets elected to the Knesset (parliament), hold about 10% of the seats, but does little to improve the situation of its constituents.
Jews aren’t forced to emigrate to Israel. They sometime arrive because of economic conditions, antisemitic persecutions, but never because they are forced to do so. What power does the Israeli government have over foreign citizens?
Family laws are based on religion for Jews and Muslims in Israel. You need to get a divorce through the religious courts (for example), but it applies to both religions.
House demolitions happen regardless if the person is Arab or Jewish. It’s a question of legality and most Jews choose to follow the legal system. Those who don’t, face demolitions just like any Arab. The building permits, to Palestinians/Israeli Arabs, are limited only in Jerusalem, where there is a clear anti-Palestinian policy, which you might call “racist”. Another laws prohibits construction for Arabs on land that isn’t owned by the Israeli state, but by the Jewish National Fund. Those lands were bought for the purpose of settling Jews in Israel. Arab groups appealed to the Supreme Court, saying that this is discriminating to Arabs, and this discussion is still pending there.
The “law of return” is the basis of the Zionist idea that Jews need to come back to their land and settle it, but it’s not hateful toward Arabs.
Therefore, I’m trying to show that the Israeli legal system isn’t racist, but policies of exclusion and fear of the Jewish population in Israel are. The battle over hearts and minds is the important one, and talking to each other is what will bring change. But it’s hard for any Jew to have a constructive dialog when an ideology he might believe in (Zionism) is compared to Nazism.

I believe the only way to make this a good place to live in for everyone is to reverse this process of spreading hate to the spreading of understanding and mutual respect.

Hate is not an integral part of are identities. That is the main thing we need to understand and spread. An Arab that define himself as Palestinian doesn’t have to hate all Jews and neither does a Zionist Jew have to hate Arabs.

The main issue is Israeli Jews, Arabs, Druze, and Bedouins not knowing each other and talking on day to day basis. This makes it easy for hate spreaders and media to show us the other as an inhuman enemy.

The solution is more mixing, more dialog and less violence.