Thanks for the reply. Many things became clear.
1. If I did a mistake in not reading your full sentence, I excuse. But you should just look at a comment above your last one, here to see that I confessed I was wrong and corrected myself. That’s about my fault on Filthy topic. I apologizae one more time for this mistake.

2.

If justice is in your dictionary then what you make of the Jewish claim for the land of Palestine as being theirs? since when had they ever lived there without being surrounded with the original inhabitants of the land? What about the massacres they keep repeating in cold blood exactly as described by their holy book? ….

I’m not a dictionary and never claimed justice. But be careful, I never said Jewish aren’t innocent and a perfect nation. I just asked you not to insult the other religions, just it. Torah whatever, Old Testament whatever, Quran whatever; We shouldn’t insult them and their books because we’re not followers or we see some faults or contradictions in their books.

These books are Holly for their followers despite whatever they are and what has been written in them or may have changed. When some people believe in something as Holly, its insulting to say harsh about them; just it.

3.

was god telling about these books we have in hand now? according to king James versions or something else?

No, in Quran didn’t told us; Therefore since he hasn’t told us which version (James or whatever) was his, we should respect them all as having at least a piece of truth. You think since Allah hadn’t mentioned which book to be his, then we should insult all other religious books? That’s not a good path I believe.

4. Because there is a doubt of distortion in these pre-Quranic books, should we insult them?
Let me ask another question: Dont you know that there is a doubt of distortion for Quran?
Yes, this seems to be an offense to you, but why dont you think that its also offensive for other religions?

5. you said:

Masters of deceit; yes they are, refer to the book By Way of Deception by an ex mossad agent and save me the explanation. and to make things clear for you I mean by ” jews” the ones who idolize the zionist movement in its pursue for stealing the land of Palestine from its legal inhabitants by quoting the will of Yahweh and using the mighty arm of the secular USA.

When there are two in dictionary, we should know that there are two meanings for these words: “Jews” and “Zionists”. These two words have many differences. Jews are all Jewish, but Zionism is a political word related to Some of Jews. Then All Jews aren’t Zionists.
Like the difference between Muslims and Terrorists! Muslims are all who believe in Islam, but terrorists refers to Some Muslims who have some political claims. Then All Muslims aren’t Terrorists. its the easist lesson in logic!
So you meant Zionism at the first time and thats why I say you did a mistake. We should respect all religions and all their followers. If you have criticism on Zionism, ok please say so; I’ll clap for you. But insulting jews isnt acceptable.

6.

As for your lecture about respect, I do need you to tell me how and whom to respect, just limit your answers to facts. I have more Jewish friends than you can handle, but fortunately they are antizionists and they know how respectful I am for them. Jews of today had been hijacked by the zionist movement and if they continue in this path then you know what all the holy books say will happen one day.

Thanks for confessing you’re not in contrary with jews (anti-jews). That’s my point also: a seperation between jews and zionists.

7.

In addition I draw your attention to the fact that when a country is ruled by thieves one doesn’t expect they will enforce such harsh punishments against their likes, the idea gives them shivers in their spine and makes stealing not quite comfortable to them and the world banks which are always thirsty for deposits of such huge stolen amounts.

See, another claim without any supporting argument. So you mean all Islamic Countries and governments are thiefs. Ok, its not offensive for anyone, you can make alot of these. The country men should answer you.

8.

I feel sorry for you, you are so transparent though you act otherwise, I am more ashamed by you and the way you misguide your readers. Not only Jews read what you write in here but also Muslims and Christians, and I advise you to stop tying Christians to Jews to force them into the argument. Please be more calculating next time you attempt such mental stunts.

I did force no one, I acted as who likes Muslims, Jews and Christians the same. We’re all brothers and sisters, and cant bear offensive to non of them. If I dont stand against someone who insults like you, then one day someone comes and insults muslims, another time jews and the other time Christians. That’s not acceptable here.
And show me my mental stunts clever words! I liked that!

9.

As for treat others as you want them to treat you, I am treating them as they treat us; remember the never ending talk about Islamic fascism, Islamic terror, Islamic insulting dress code, forcing Muslim countries to change their school books and laws to welcome the ever so hating israelis into the neighborhood?

Then what would be the end if no side stop insulting? A non-ending war? non-ending insults?
Remission is the key of victory! Please check Quran as muslim and learn how to be kind to others.

Here in MEY we’re trying to find a win-win solution for all Middle Eastern nations and to get rid of these hatreds. Thats the aim of these websites!

You cannot see the mountain but you keep climbing a stone.

Thanks for your metaphor, But I cant understand how you know that!

Its the end of my comments on Antizio’s.

I put between brackets after FILTHY what i consider as filthy, unless you accept such incestuous acts by a respected prophet in Islam and lustful behavior of another as pleasant.. and you the all knowing should also have realized that Islam talks about the Holy Books which are no longer the books under our hands now. They changed the context and added as they please and even have their own man authored Talmud to further strengthen their scorn to the goem.

If justice is in your dictionary then what you make of the Jewish claim for the land of Palestine as being theirs? since when had they ever lived there without being surrounded with the original inhabitants of the land? What about the massacres they keep repeating in cold blood exactly as described by their holy book? did they not enter Palestine with a Jericho massacre under the leadership of Joshua? described in detail how they killed every child, woman and elderly!! What God would direct his followers to behave like this? They were not even at war with them.

It seems you are a choosy reader, you only seek partial truth, Yes i know what God told Muhammad about the books he sent before, my question to you is: was god telling about these books we have in hand now? according to king James versions or something else?

Masters of deceit; yes they are, refer to the book By Way of Deception by an ex mossad agent and save me the explanation. and to make things clear for you I mean by ” jews” the ones who idolize the zionist movement in its pursue for stealing the land of Palestine from its legal inhabitants by quoting the will of Yahweh and using the mighty arm of the secular USA.

I am embarrassed by the likes of you who are quick to stand by any half factual arguments about Islamic issues but more quick in riding the defense front against the zio jewish dogma who brought so much harm to the Jewish cause and legalized the blood shed against the occupied in contrary to all known human and International laws.

And I warn you not to play this deceiving intentional misinformation you lead the readers into; I did not say everything which is contradictory is filthy, so no need for you to point your finger to what you assume is contradictory in Qur’an and label it as filthy; I said contradictions and filth; and i gave you example of what i consider as filth, now show me similar filth in either the Bible or the Qur’an. Otherwise keep your fact twisting for yourself

As for your lecture about respect, I do need you to tell me how and whom to respect, just limit your answers to facts. I have more Jewish friends than you can handle, but fortunately they are antizionists and they know how respectful I am for them. Jews of today had been hijacked by the zionist movement and if they continue in this path then you know what all the holy books say will happen one day.

As for your misleading question about why Muslims do not amputate the hand of the thief in response to my wondering as why the lady in here had claimed that stoning was abolished by Judaism, I say that you know very well that there are not many Muslim countries in this world, they are all under the civil laws and not Shari’a rules but this doesn’t mean that there is new Qur’an with abolished rules. In addition I draw your attention to the fact that when a country is ruled by thieves one doesn’t expect they will enforce such harsh punishments against their likes, the idea gives them shivers in their spine and makes stealing not quite comfortable to them and the world banks which are always thirsty for deposits of such huge stolen amounts.

I feel sorry for you, you are so transparent though you act otherwise, I am more ashamed by you and the way you misguide your readers. Not only Jews read what you write in here but also Muslims and Christians, and I advise you to stop tying Christians to Jews to force them into the argument. Please be more calculating next time you attempt such mental stunts.

As for treat others as you want them to treat you, I am treating them as they treat us; remember the never ending talk about Islamic fascism, Islamic terror, Islamic insulting dress code, forcing Muslim countries to change their school books and laws to welcome the ever so hating israelis into the neighborhood? I pity you. You cannot see the mountain but you keep climbing a stone.

One mistake I did. I didnt read your whole sentence:

even their old testament is full of contradictions and filth [Lott had incestous rellation with both of his daughters and impregnated them, king david had a man sent to war and killed so that he could mary his wife whom he lusted for..etc] but still they manage to make such doctrines slip by.

So, I correct myself: You accused Old Testament for having contradictions and being Filthy.

In the case of Quran, it has also many contradictions, as I mentioned in above comment.

About being filthy, I also said that its an insult in essence, but you gave examples which I did read and did a mistake. I’m not an Old Testament expert and have no comment on these examples. But just know calling a Holly Book filthy, which is reference of Jews and Christians is not acceptable; not for them, not for muslims who believe in those books as Allah’s.

two more points:

1. you mock and say

If Torah is the jew’s divine book then the rule still holds and their God did not abolish it but they did

It seems that you haven’t read Quran. havent you heard Allah in Quran told Muhammad, “I’m the God who send those books to Moses and Jesus before you (Muhammad)”? Then if you’re a muslim you should know that Yehwah is Allah! So you’re insulting Islam with lack of your information!

2. You said “even their old testament is full of contradictions and filth”. It seems everything that has contradiction is filthy. Should I here notice you that Quran is full of contradictions (here, here and here. Also search google! Then you should conclude that Quran is filthy, too.

I’m really ashamed of what you said! Period.

First thanks for the comment you made.
I dont really know your religious tendecy, but it seems you’re an Islamic dogmatic! Here at MEY is a tribun for all the Middle Easterns with regard to all religions. When you say something which you haven’t a good argument for, it just bothers others.

Lets see one of your claims one more time:

jews are masters of deceit, very good in hiding their dark side, even their old testament is full of contradictions and filth

1. How did you understand that Jews are masters of deceit? If we suppose that for example Torrah has some contradictions with Quran, then you as a Muslim should conclude that All Jews Are Masters of Deceit? It’s a blind and insulting claim. Please be aware of what you say. Here we have many Jewish visitors and you’re insulting them.

After all, as a Muslim you should respect Jews since Muhammad and Allah have said too much on respecting “Ahle Ketab” (Those who have religious books)! So I want you to respect them.

2. How you claim that they have a Dark Side? And how do they hide in this side?
You just bother with these invalid claims! Does it Islam’s learning to mock other religions? I dont think so. Please for Allah’s sake (that you believe, be respectful).

even their old testament is full of contradictions and filth

You made me ashamed.
First, you are insulting Islam if you’re muslim. You know one of two books which Allah in Quran refers to as holly books are Jewish and Christian books. Please be aware what you’re saying.

Second, you’re claiming this book to be full of contradictions and filth!!! Do you know what you’re saying? Thats an insulting claim based on no evidence. You’re insulting Jewish and Christians. It’s not acceptable.

Third, you should know that Jews and Christians don’t believe in Islam, Muhammad as Prophet and Allah as God; nevertheless they never insult Islam! Please try to correct yourself.

Fourth, The humanistic view: As you’re human and want to have respect from others, you should respect them. I don’t know but that Islam which you’re into has said “treat people as you wish to be treated”.

you said:

If Torah is the jew’s divine book then the rule still holds and their God did not abolish it but they did :
[Sexual intercourse between a man and a woman engaged to another man (both should be stoned, Torah- Deut. 22:23-24)]

Let me ask you a question: Why dont muslims ampute the theif? If Quran is the muslims’ divine book then the rule still holds and their God did not abolish it but they did :

Quran 5:38,
As for the thief, both male and female, cut off their hands. It is the reward of their own deeds, an exemplary punishment from Allah. Allah is Mighty, Wise.

It seem’s to be no difference between Jewish and Islam scriptures in this topic. Then makes your claim invalid.
Please be more respectful and care what you say.

a muslim believes in several things (infallibility of Prophet Muhammad, that Quran is not distorted, etc). Shahrzad makes her arguments assuming these ideas. Based on Islamic principles, she is trying to convince a Muslim that Stoning to death is not an Islamic act. And, she is doing a great work.

1. If the level of punishment is due to level of existing brutality in society, then what does it have with not being Islamic?

Mujtahid’s task is to compare today society with then Arab one, and transform laws (actually, keeping the Content and changing the Form) relative to contextual differeneces. (A simple example may be found here.)

2. If the level of punishment is due to level of existing brutality in society, what is the relativeness of stoning with the adultery? Is adultery brutal? I dont think so. If it is not now, It wasnt before; adultery is adultery. I cant see no brutality in it. Then where is that relativeness?

first of all, many forms of punishment are brutal in their very nature. Theft is not brutal; putting the thief into prison is brutal. second, stoning to death was an acceptable punishment for adultery in that period of time. and third, let’s consider it’s too hard to prove adultery through ways considered legitimate other than voluntary confession.

3. If the level of punishment is due to level of existing brutality in society, then how the Mujtahid’s now understood that it is brutal and our society is not brutal since now?!! What was their scale? I say still we’re brutal, then ask them to check this out!!!

Level of brutality is decreasing throughout history, whatever the reasons. we are less violent compared to our ancestors.

Stoning is a highly debated topic within the Muslim religious community, and reputable Iranian clerics, such as Ayatollah Nasser Makarem Shirazi, Ayatollah Yousef Saneii and Ayatollah Seyyed Mohamamd Mousavi Bojnourdi, have spoken out against it. Nobel Peace Prize Winner Shirin Ebadi, too, has spoken out against the practice, explaining that stoning should not be accepted as Islamic Law and only serves to humiliate and defame Islam. Others have led lively theological debates to convey that the practice is not Islamic.

Many Muslim nations such as Malaysia, Indonesia, Tunisia, Algeria and others have banned death by stoning. Despite calls for abolition from around the globe, stoning still occurs in several countries, either under law or by the community.

jews are masters of deceit, very good in hiding their dark side, even their old testament is full of contradictions and filth [Lott had incestous rellation with both of his daughters and impregnated them, king david had a man sent to war and killed so that he could mary his wife whom he lusted for..etc] but still they manage to make such doctrines slip by. Why play blind and ignore the fact that Shahrazad was talking about the theory of stoning and not wither it is practiced now by the jews? If Torah is the jew’s divine book then the rule still holds and their God did not abolish it but they did :
[Sexual intercourse between a man and a woman engaged to another man (both should be stoned, Torah- Deut. 22:23-24)]

I understand that Shahrazad is implying that Quranic verses have priority in Islamic laws over everything else. Not all Hadith is valid and verified as true. So why is this argument? And yes Islam preaches some very harsh punishments, tough luck for the thieves, the adulterers, the rapists, and for those who spread and seek wrong doings to the inhabitants of earth.

Dear Shahrzad,

Thanks to a good friend who noticed something.
You said:

The punishment for adultry if it be regular and be proved via so many conditions is that woman has to stay at home for awhile or lifetime.

Islam is much cruel than you think, and Allah is there to punish you. Please read Quran one more time and this time carefully:

QUR’AN CHAPTER 24: AL-NOOR (THE LIGHT) Verse 2:
Ahmed Raza Khan: Mohammed Aqib Qadri:
The adulteress and the adulterer – punish each one of them with a hundred lashes; and may you not have pity on them in the religion to Allah, if you believe in Allah and the Last Day; and a group of believers must witness their punishment.

Yusuf Ali:
The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.

Pickthal:
The adulterer and the adulteress, scourge ye each one of them (with) a hundred stripes. And let not pity for the twain withhold you from obedience to Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day. And let a party of believers witness their punishment.

Thats Allah’s punishment for Adultery. Not what you mentioned.

You may reject all Hadith, but please read these Hadith Sahih on stoning. Thats the legacy of Islam!

Stoning at first, is a jewish tradition, mentioned in jewish texts and once upon time used to be practiced by them and many other religions.

Stoning is mentioned in the Bible and in later Jewish writings (Masechet Sanhedrin in the Talmud) as the punishment for those convicted of incest, and “crimes” like worshiping idols, violating the Shabbat (like I’m doing right now…), homosexuality, cursing G-d, etc. However, the religious court system, the Sanhedrin, which existed until 425 A.D. in Israel, refused to discuss cases whose outcome might be capital punishment since around 30 A.D. (although there is some documentation that a death sentence was carried out in 62 A.D.). Even before 30 A.D., the Sanhedrin very rarely convicted people of crimes that carried the death penalty and found arguments to avoid ruling in favor of capital punishment.
Therefore, it’s very hard for me to accept that someone says that stoning in Jewish, when it hasn’t been practiced by Jews in almost 2000 years, while it’s still being carried out today in countries like Iran and Saudi Arabia. Capital punishment for those “crimes” I listed has been unacceptable to Jews for thousands of years and the most authoritative religious scholars at the end of the second century declared it unlawful in the Talmud (Bavli, Ktuvot, 30:71). In Israel, where there is a religious court system in charge of issues pertaining to family law, people can freely fornicate, violate the Shabbat, be openly gay, curse G-d, worship idols, etc.

You write:

Stoning like Niqab which was something for jews, later on were entered into some ahadeeth and can be called as Israeliyat as they say to fake hadeeth.

As for Niqab, first, let’s point out that even the ultra-Orthodox don’t ask their married women to do more than cover their hair, not the whole face. Having said that, this is, of course, still a discriminating practice against women. But, the tradition of covering the hair for married women doesn’t appear in the Bible, and only in later writings (Talmud), and it is said there that this is a tradition of modesty, not a commandment from G-d. Therefore, the Conservative and Reform movements in Judaism don’t follow it.

It seems you’ll need to find other sources and causes for the “lovely” practices of Niqab and stoning, other than Jewish writings. The fact is that those practices do appear in our writings, but no one stones anybody and few cover their hair. The real question is why it is practiced in some Muslim countries today.
The argument that Jews faked Hadeeth is highly offensive, but since it’s written in your Book that we knowingly distorted G-d’s message in the Bible, I guess corrupting religious writing comes natural to us.