Adam, The “Terrorist” !!!
Adam, The “Terrorist”.
This picture, of my wife and our little baby I got yesterday evening Aug. 5th 09, a moments before dusk. Today my wife went to visit her brother in the “israeli” jail, and of course she got to take our baby Adam with her.
Adam, our baby, is less than two months, he’s exactly 54 days old today as he went to visit his detained uncle for the first time.
The “israeli” jail is some 40km away from our home, and the journey to it takes some 30-40 minutes in a normal country. In a normal country everything is normal but in a racist regime like in “israel”, everything is hell for the “less human” native Palestinians. In a normal country the trip takes 30-40 minutes, but in a racist regime it takes more than 12 hours.
Today, my wife got up in down and prepared herself to go and meet her dad and sister in Jenin city before they go to the busses of the International Red-Cross to take them to the “israeli” jail. She went and took our baby and they all got in the busses and seemingly everything was OK.
The busses drove 20 minutes to reach the Israeli Apartheid Segregation Wall to get into the Palestinian territories occupied in 1948, ie inside the racist “israeli” regime.
When they got there, the busses were stopped and the “israeli” soldiers, or intelligence agents got into the busses scrutinizing every human and every aspect inside there, they intend to turn the visitor’s journey into hell and they always succeed.
The soldier, interrogator, security agent or who the hell he was kept searching until her reached my wife. He looked at her angrily asking of our baby: “Who’s this?”
-“It’s my baby.” Replied my wife.
-“And what is he doing here?”
-“He’s my baby.” Replied my wife amazed at his question.
-“You are violating the rules, he is not allowed to go in.” said the soldier decisively.
-“What? He’s just a baby.” Shouted my wife unbelieving what is going on.
-“He’s not allowed and you are violating the law. Next time you got to be punished.”
-“What?” still unbelieving what is going on.
-“He is not a first degree relative, and not allowed to visit accordingly.” Replied the soldier angrily.
And for those who don’t know the “israeli” “law”, their racist law anyway, only the first degree relatives are allowed to visit the prisoner, ie his mom, dad, sisters and brothers…. And Adam, our 54 days old baby is not allowed simply because he’s just a nephew and not first degree relative…. The hell with the racist “israeli” regime’s “law”!!!
For my wife’s luck, who didn’t see her brother in jail for seven months, she had her old father with her, some 70+ years old man. Her father suggested a solution that he would return and take the baby back to his grandma until she comes back from the visit, that finally it’s been a long time she didn’t see her brother in the jail.
Yes, it was like this today, a crazy racist country called “israel” prevented our 54 days old baby from visiting his uncle, that their “law” decided it is forbidden for a nephew to see his uncle even if he was less than two months old. But my little Adam was happy to spend a joyful day with his grandma until his mom came late in the evening frustrated and exhausted of a journey that lasted more than 12 hours!!
This is the racist “Israel” that Adam must know and fight against. I will teach him to fight for his freedom, for a dignified life!!! The hell with the “israeli” law, the hell with all the racist regimes.
Sami, the Bedouin.
Aug. 6th 09.
Join the Conversation
Wow, that is just terrifying. Israel’s policies are amongst the most oppressive and humiliating in the world. I am sorry you constantly have to go through such rubbish, in a perfect world Israel will be held accountable for their crimes.
On another note, your son is extremely cute! I wish your family all the best. You need to keep telling your stories to the world.
Thanks Esra’a,
It’s my crazy life under the “israeli” oppression…. I always write what I feel, and feel what I write… Istill, even after writing what happened, cant comprehend that it happened!!! It is just a baby of 54 days only…. Accordingly, I can never reconciliate with occupation nor corruption!!!
As an Israeli human being who isn’t shy to look what my state is doing in my name, I can tell you, Esra’a, that what Sami writes here about his (our) crazy life and the rubbish he has to go through is only a little part of the whole. Each and everything a Palestinian has to do or does in this country is subjected to “laws” and arbitrary decisions that can turn even the smallest action into a nightmare.
Just this afternoon, an Israeli Jewish woman told me about a recently popular (border-) police ‘enjoyment’ in Jaffo (a mixed Jewish-Palestinian community). … When you get up in the morning and leave the house to get some milk and bread for breakfast in the grocery shop next door, you might meet such a (border-) police patrol who might ask for your ID card. As it happens in early morning hours, people don’t always keep their ID cards in the pockets of their pajama pants.
What follows is this: you get handcuffed with a plastic band (very solid), hands behind your back, you’ll stand in some corner and wait. If you’re lucky and don’t live alone, your spouse or whoever lives with you will notice after a while that you’re not coming back. They’ll look out of the window, most probably see what they are already expecting, that you’re handcuffed somewhere in the streets because you didn’t take you ID card…
Spouse or room-mate then goes down with your ID, which is checked, you’re released… and you finally can enjoy your breakfast and try to guess what other surprises your day might bring…
I’m sorry, but it seems like your saying that even though these are ‘laws’ are justified, and that this inhumane treatment is civilized. This situation you described, typically, who are these officers? Israelis? And who ends up being the one put into a corner? A Palestinian? What this an instance of random ID checking or just a moment of, “Hey its a Palestinian, lets go see if he has his ID”
Junaid, you got me completely wrong. Maybe because I’m so exasperated by what’s going on that my irony doesn’t come through. It’s not ‘officers’, its “normal” border policemen and women who do this, and as far as I understood my friend who told me this, there is no distinction between Jews and Arabs as in Jaffo all residents have Israeli citizenship. Maybe they “have their fun” a little more with people who “look” Arab, but it’s very often hard to tell… These are not more than “amusements” for them – and they do it inside of Israel. What they do to Palestinians in the West Bank (randomly) is much more serious. Sometimes they “go to far” and the victim dies due to their “parties” (humiliation, beatings, torture). But nobody is punished for such acts – a policeman or a soldier is in Israel “above the law”. To me all this is so horrendous that in a way it becomes like “unreal” to me – but don’t get me wrong again: it’s perfectly real and a daily occurrence. There seems to be no end to the abuses of Israeli policemen and soldiers against Palestinians (I’m tempted to say “of course”), but also Israelis. Who of these generally poor citizens in Jaffo would complain?? And to whom?? To the abusers themselves?? … No justification is possible – but I find myself without words to “qualify” all this…
Sami, I don’t justify what happened to your son, and to your wife. In fact, I believe that the occupation of Palestinians by Israel is wrong, and should be brought to an end, whereby two states can live side by side in peace and harmony.
I am not sure, however, that “racism” is the right word here. Perhaps “paranoia” would be a better word, or an obsession with security measures because of a perceived threat to your exitence. Israel is very strong militarily, so that such fears can become quite confusing. However, I am convinced that much of Israeli policies and attitutes arise from a perceived threat to its existence. In other words, there have been people in the past, and at present, who are hell-bent on bringing about the demise of the Jewish state. And many of the policies which arise from this perception are distorted and unjust. There is no clean way to run an occupation.
If you take a roomful of Jews, Israeli Arabs, and Palestinians, I bet you couldn’t tell them apart. They are pretty much all of the same race. So how could racism be the motivation here. Aren’t they all Semitic?
My efforts are not directed at determining who is right and who is wrong. There is plenty of blame to go around. But I do know for a fact that the occupation is wrong, and is not in Israel’s best long term interest. My focus is how to end that occupation. What specifically can you and I do, Sami, to bring an end to the occupation, and the emergence of a viable Palestinian state? There are a number of prominent Israelis who are helping me in that effort. Are they all racists, and just pretending to want peace? I think not. The vast majority of Israelis are not racists, and will work hard to bring justice to Palestinians, if a way can be found to do that. And I am convinced that there is a way to do that, and it will be up to us, not just our leaders, to make that happen.
No, I am not sorry for the experience faced by your wife and beautiful son. If there are rules, it must be followed, no matter what. I do agree that some rules are just too vague or favoring one group of people. In some Islamic countries a women must wear a hijab, even when she is not a Muslim. Non-Muslim travelers do wear them to obey the laws.
Israel is a state in war since it’s birth, they are being threaten destruction every day, by nations, politicians and small groups, therefore, they require strict rules for survival. In order to change all that, peace is the only way. Islam is not bad so are the Jews. Instead of launching rockets, if the Palestinians launched flowers, today we would have two great nations, living side by side. The laws would be different. So brothers and sisters, let us get rid of the hated inside our hearts and start a new generation built on forgiveness and love. We can change the world, yes we can.
The way you write this article is very hateful and one-sided. He keeps calling Israel racist and all that. it just is a perfect example of what is wrong with all of your minds. Wake up and realize Mohamed was a sick man possessed by a demon and created the religion that would divide the world. He married a 9 year old and said he was the last prophet. Which is insane. You Muslims are so bent on persecuting people and casting judgment. Look deeper and do some reasearh. And by all means. Convert away from Islam. You are going to train and brain-wash your baby into developing a terrorist mentality.
I agree with the rest of you that it was ridiculous and foolish for the guard to argue about whether a 2 month old baby has a right to go where the mother goes. I would however like to point out how ridiculous it is that you quoted Israeli every time you used it. Its not a term that doesn’t exist or is fake. Whether or not you believe Israel has the right to exist or not does not take away from the fact that it is indeed a word.
Also I would like to point out that this whole tension between the Jews and the Palestinians was caused when both were promised the same land by the British before WWI or WWII.. i can’t remember it has been a while since i took that history class.. The British were raising money for the war and promised the American Jews a country if they contributed and they did the same to the Palestinians if they assisted in the fight. Just like with the partition of India and all the trouble that caused.. can all be traced back to the British Empire.
Fighting hate with hate will never bring about peace. It will just drag on and on. Do not teach your son hate, have him stand up for his rights and to never use violence. In the United States, Martin Luther King Jr. stood up for African American rights and won without ever resorting to violence. Stay strong, but stay cool!
Peace in the Middle East! BooYah!
Its horriffic when two sides fight for an extended peroid of time. In todays age, human life should have more value and people should not be so willing to end their life or somebody elses. It seems neither side will be staisfied until the other is eliminated. At some point the cost of the stalemate will exceed the cost of lives lost and then maybe a peaceful solution will be excepted by each side. The only question is how many need die in order to reach peace
If the Palestinians want an Arab nation so badly for them to live in they can move to any of the other Arab nations in the area. As an Arab I’m calling out my own for being bullies. I can’t believe my own are defending terrorist ideals! Hamas is known to have their headquarters underneath the largest hospital in Palestinian territory because they are so cowardly. Not to mention they will then invade innocent Palestinian homes, launch attacks from these homes, and then scurry away again for the innocent Palestinians to be killed in defense attacks by the Israeli people. I cannot believe as a youth that all of you are still so full of hatred. We should be able to be proud of who we are and instead I am ashamed that all of you defend these actions. Until we fight against these extremists and actually practice what we preach (about our peaceful religion) no one will take us seriously. No wonder the world looks down upon us. We claim Islam is a peaceful religion and yet we speak such vile hate out of our mouths I understand why the world would hate us. Let Israel have the land, leave them alone, and let’s work on updating our nations. It is sad that our people and our area of the world is the oldest in the world and yet not all of our countries in all areas have consistent electricity, modern technology, and some still even live in mud huts! How are we so behind all of these countries? Do any of you think about how silly we look to the world that we are the oldest civilizations and yet we aren’t more superior in our life styles? We are a joke the world and I understand. We need to stop being the bullies of the world. Who cares who the British gave the land to. For once in our modern existence let’s swallow our pride, be the bigger people in the situation and let Israelis have their country. We have many other wonderful nations that we should be worrying about instead of Israel.
That is a profound question, Hitman. Ultimately, there will be peace. The question is: will it be peace among the living, or among the dead?
I had an extended discussion recently with Senator George Mitchell, who is the Middle East Envoy from the Middle East. He is the one who brought peace to Ireland. The IRA was not exactly a reasonable and friendly organization. But little by little they became convinced that terror was not the way, and that they could consolidate political power in a more legitimate way, which would lead to a realization of a vision of peace, prosperity, and freedom
The Palestians and Israelis have to become similarly convinced, and at such time, both sides will make the concessions which are inherent in making peace. We can create new realities on the ground, and pave a neutral path toward peace, with carefully positioned investment dollars, to convince both sides that peace is in the offing. At such time, the rest of what has to be done will come naturally, because people who are making money together have little time or patience for ideological nonsense. Business creates its own ideological imperative.
Well, I do have to say, Being from the USA this is a very interesting thing to hear about, I am 17 years old, I am white, and I live in the State of California. I live in a town with a 70% Jewish population, but i am not Jewish. My girl friend is, and we have never clashed on any religious issues. But to hear about a young baby not being able to see his uncle i agree 100% that he should be allowed to see his uncle, but on the other hand it really is a safety precaution. Many people in Palestine do not want peace, and we have all seen this, with proof from Hezbollah and other Islamic extremist groups, they want the destruction of the Jewish State. But over here, its so hard for me to understand why religion has such a hold on these countries and issues, my best friend is a Muslim from Egypt, and most of his friends are Jewish, and we all live in peace and harmony with no issues, we have more important things to worry about then what our ancestors though thousands of years ago, why don’t we all just worry about saving our world from global warming, from letting out wild life go extinct. I am no racist but when you bring a child into a world of war they will always know war. Honestly i am getting sick of all this Bull Shit that you guys do over their, im sick of hearing about random rockets, about Israel invading Lebanon and killing innocent civilians, but really you guys are not working towards progression, but you guys are eventually going to send your selves back into the stone age and if that honestly what you want keep going… I love all people no matter what religion and race, it all comes down to what kind of person you are, and why is that so hard for you to grasp. People can live in Peace, The USA use to have slavery of African Americans, and now Obama is our president, he is just a good man and finally the USA is getting to the point in which race does not matter and that’s where the world needs to go…. I love all people for who they are, But im sorry to say that the Israelis have the right to worry for their saftey, Palestine deserves their own nation, or have the nation become the republic of the Israelis and the Palestinians and live in peace…. But now when i say something like this you roll your eyes, this is why you live like this Hate…
Agreed.
Look at China and the US. They cannot afford a war. The people who have wealth and power wont have it because their is too much too loose.
I think most average people want the same basic needs.
Safety for their family
Food and shelter
An opportunity to better the condition they have and status in life
To practice their faith
Hope
When people are denied these basic needs conflict results.
When these items are available then people have less tolerance for violence.
A lasting peace can take place when a road map is in place to address these needs.
Sometimes leaders have views not in line with the peoples needs.
Hello, I heard about your website in CNN here in Oregon,USA. I’m your averaging 20 something young business owner.
I must say first that I think anyone should be able to visit anyone in any prison. Supervised if need be sure. The person in the prison is the one being punished (for whatever reason). Its too often that there is more suffering for the friends and families of a person then the person thats in there in the first place.
In the states there are people that go and visit people they have never met in prison, just to hear their story and just someone to talk to.
@Hitman, I agree with your last post completely. All except the Hope one. Hope cannot be taken or given really. Minds have the incredible ability to rationalize any situation and get any kind of “feeling” they want from it.
@Sami, the beduin.. I agree with you that your niece should be able to visit her uncle. But your wording is kinda hostile.. I don’t know if its deserved or not, we live a million miles away and I trust that you have more experience in the area then I do. But I know people, and we have a saying “you get more with honey then vinegar”. If its unjust, the best thing you can do in today’s world is make it known. Make a documentary of your commute to the prison, and then see if you can get an isralei friend to make the same video on their commute, then compare it, and release the documentary. Thats how you the individual can help make real change.
My name is Adelinson. I’m an American from Miami Beach. I recently read about this website on CNN.com. I decided to come check it out. It said that this was a place where young muslims and Israelis interacted. It sounded cool. So I want to be a part of it. First and foremost, I want to say that my mom is from Honduras and my father is from Brasil. So my lineage isn’t American. But I was born here in the United States. There’s a very big misconception in the United States about muslims, Israelis, and the Middle East. Some people are too ignorant and classify all Arabs or muslims as terrorist. That’s not cool. I think its horrible that because some people decided to take a very extreme interpretation of the muslim religion, and therefore wage ruthless war against westerners etc, doesn’t mean that people should classify all Middle Easterners as terrorist or radicals. Living in Miami Beach you don’t see too much of that cause theres a very big mix of people. You have people from all over the world there. A LOT of hispanic/latinos, a lot of Europeans, a lot of jewish people, and a lot of muslims. In fact, my dads boss is from Bangledash (I think thats how its spelled.) So in Miami the mood is different and our conception of people is different then places that have a 95% population of white people or black people. We’re more open to other cultures and ideas because we’re a city made of people from all parts of the world. I try to vision the world as Miami is. People living side by side, as neighbors, respecting each other. I don’t see why an Iranian and an Israeli can’t get along. I do understand that Arabs and Jews have been at war since the begining of time. Some people were born and raised with the idea that they have to hate certain people and they have to fight certain people. That’s not cool. Both sides need to work out there differences in a respectful way. Meaning Jewish soldiers shouldn’t put you in handcuffs on the street just because you don’t have your i.d., and they CERTAINLY shouldn’t deny a 54 day old kid visitation rights to his uncle. Things like that are ridiculous. It’s one thing to try and keep strict security in places, but things like that are uncalled for and not needed. It makes Jewish law seem stupid. But I also understand that the Israelis want and have to protect themselves. People have to understand that there’s two sides to every story. But anyways, I hope some people here write me back. I would like to learn more of the places everyone is from and there cultures. Both muslim and jewish. I hope everyone is ok where they are at. Take care everyone
It is criminal-minded people, such as the very man the woman was going to visit, that make it necessary for these strict laws to be in place. There is nothing racist or extreme about these laws; dare we compare the Israeli prison to the way some Arabs treat their own in other MidEast countries? Israel is serious in enforcing their policies only to ensure the peace of their citizens.
Next time, instead of the needless complaining, one needs to ask why their relative is in prison. I’m sure that too is because of Israel’s racist regime, huh? Give me a break. Next time, both the author of this poorly-written article and the woman in question, need to conserve their energy and resources, and instead go out and tell their brothers and cousins to stop the violence. Hey, what a great idea: stop the violence.
Israelis are not Palestinian-hating monsters.
By lumping all Israelis together in a stereo-typical way, YOU are being the racist.
The majority of all humans want peace, so do your part and at least use your brain.
Yes there is, and that is that the man’s only crime is his nationality, nothing else. Abusve Israeli prisons contain thousands and thousands of innocent individuals whom you consider to be “criminals” without an ilk of evidence. Every Palestinian is a criminal and all Israelis are justified in their abuse, am I right? I must be, because the mainstream media said so.
False.
I know Sami and many of his friends are Israelis. His complaint is against the Israeli regime, not ONCE did he claim a single thing about being Israeli as an ethnicity, so not only is your comment simplistic and inaccurate, you’re also the one accusing him of racism when yours has racist implications.
Don’t worry about these comments Sami, these are people who never lived under a brutal, humiliating occupation and whose only aim in such debates is to defend a regime that succeeds impeccably in its daily propaganda. Dialogue is not possible with people who don’t care about you, or about morals or humanity, and just in their self-serving stance. We have brilliant Israelis here who do and these are the people who can help you.
@Adelinson – I agree with you there is a mis conception.. But i don’t think its that broad. I also think its generally the older groups of people that think this way (Age 50+). To some extent I think i understand it and the ironic part of what I’m thinking is that it doesn’t really have to do with Muslims, or Israelis.
That age group, the ones that are 50+ grew up in a time where they’re parents were building bomb shelters from the evil world. They had air raid drills on a regular basis in school. Some of them were children when World war 2 was going on. They lived with fear everyday.
The youth and young adults of today do not have that looming everyday fear, which is almost like a clean slate for all people of the world when it comes to dealing with Americans. The generations that are coming up don’t have any pre-existing basis to judge or group anyone. So we’ are more willing to have conversations, and friends from other walks of life.
Robert,
I gotta give you credit for that, because I do think you’re right. My dad is 63 [man he's old (haha)], and he’s like that. He gets hard headed, and you can’t change the way he thinks. You can’t open his eyes up to new things. I think it is that older generation that have all those stereotypes and misconceptions about people. But man, I wish some how we could all, like Michael Jackson says, “heal the world, make it a better place.” People don’t need all this fighting and hatred.
so much has been said as a comment to Sami’s story. I shall add only this :
Sami’s little baby of 54 days is supposed to be attached to his mother where ever she is going – no matter where she is going to. (I – as a mother, wouldn’t take him to a jail- visit, though…)he was not going to visit his uncle, as someone has suggested, he was going , naturally, with his mother.he is probably breast-fed so it is very sensible he was with her.
a baby cannot be a threat to anybody, and the mother was not breaking or violating any rule realy. i know the soldiers/policemen there could be very brutal very often, i cannot say a good word on their behalf, i think it was a horrofing and an unacceptable deed.
but i also know that not all the people on-duty behave like that one. there are others who keep their sanity, and behave like human should. i do not envy their job, they have a very difficult duty which forced upon them.
i am not justifiying anyact like Sami told about or the one Eva told about or any alike.
humanity must be the flag at the head of any way, any where.
I don’t understand why people want to cast others as racists. The hatred between Arabs and Israelis is bad enough and unjustified without using those words. The problem with the racism argument is that you lose 95% of Israeli society with it, who are unwilling to accept this argument. Israelis feel that because of the heritage of anti-Semitism, they can’t possibly be racists (which is of course untrue). If you want to further dialogue and understanding, accusing others of racism isn’t helpful. As an Israeli, I know many people who are racist about Arabs, but I don’t think that it translates into our government’s policies. I agree with Nissim- they are governed by paranoia.
But why must other innocent individuals consistently pay for this paranoia? What is the Israeli public willing to do about it? Many are taking action – refusing military service, rallying for Palestinian rights, building homes for Palestinians, making them realize that they do see them as human and not the “insects” that they are often referred to. But the amount of people doing this is far from enough.
What saddens many of us is that the actual “racism” (as you imply, it does exist and seemingly on a grand scale) has become so common in Israel that it’s expected to be dismissed for something that it isn’t, such as “self defense.”
Esra’a,
The justification of self defense to commit actions that are beyond that is a known problem. However, your view is based on the assumption that the Israeli leaders are guided by evil desires (racism), which isn’t true. Racism is the feeling of superiority over another “race”. While common Israelis sometimes feel that way, and cases of abuse of Palestinians by soldiers and settlers stem, in part, from this feeling, the Israeli government doesn’t devise its strategy based on ideology of racism. It devises them based on a world view that is Zionistic, paranoid, militaristic, etc. The paranoia and militarism are a problem, but they don’t make our leaders evil, whereas racism does. I don’t see how it’s possible to reach peace if you continue holding on to the belief that the other side is evil.
This is why no one in the Middle East can get along, you have people from different backgrounds pointing fingers at each other…. Why nto take into consideration this man the Israeli soldier that entered the bus, Is it not a possibility that he is racist beacuse his son had been killed by a Hezbollah missle…. Is he not paranoid for his life, for his familys.
I agree that there are many Palestinians in jail for wrongfull reasons, that they are a supressed peoples, but in a way, so are the Isrealis. And honestly everyone needs to cut it out with “this land is rightfully ours.” You can not say beacuse your religious brothers and sister were here thousands of years ago, doesnt make it yours…. Places that hold significant religious importance should be shared by all in peace, Jeruselam is a place of all religions, pretty much all main stream religions in this world share some religious background with that land, so in a way doesnt that make us all brothers and sisters, sharing a place of peace.
Also im really really sick of hearing about religious wars, a religion should not automatically stereotype someone no matter what religion it is. Im not really sure if many of you from outside the Unites States are familiar with the religion of Scientology. It is a religion based on a science fiction novel written in the 1950′s and it is run as a business. They take your money before every single religious sermon, and they believe that aliens put forzen aliens in the volcanos of hawaii and as our souls tryed to go back into space, that the evil emperor Zenu, put dream catchers in the sky that taught them false religions and they found human bodys and thats how we get our religion. Now eveyryone here will agress this is rediculous in every way possible, but my next door neighbor, one of the nicest people i know, is a part of this religion, and i do not judge, what ever they choose to believe is their choice, im not going to place a bomb in their garage.
I have no reason to believe that all arabs or muslims are extremist, beacuse i am of the youth of the world that is trying to change the views of people that believe this, and their are many that do, but just as I say this, many will roll their eyes and point more fingers at Isreal, then they will point fingers back, and this issue will never be resolved. Muslims and arabs are people with hearts and souls just as everyone, but hate is not way to go. The isrelai regime may be strict, but they look out for their people just as you do for yours…. Honestly look past the past, if everyone started fresh would these issues be re brought up, stop fighting, start working towards something new, dont point fingers…. The isrealis that are refusing military service for palestinians is GREAT, but now its time for the palestinians to do the same, stand up in the streets, untite the youth, we are a new generation, we can create a world with out limitations and restrictions, where war is not an issue, and the real issues will start to arrise.
Well, exactly the same thing can be said about Israel. As I said earlier, it’s not about “the other” side. Because the criticism is not against you. It’s against your regime, which merely represents you, but many other Israelis immediately take offense and assume things such as hatred for Israel when in fact, the criticism is not even directed towards the people. So is peace possible when one side is constantly defensive and is unable to stand up and attempt to correct one’s own mistakes which many Palestinians are already doing? Your situation is much better than theirs, you practically live in luxury by comparison. So the responsibility lies more on your shoulder to correct the many mistakes that have been committed in your name, just like we do for the Kurds or the Baha’is or the other oppressed individuals who suffer in our name.
Who in your current government is attempting to solve it?
Seriously, if it wasn’t for all those brave Israelis who put their pride and militant nationalism behind and chose to stand up for human rights regardless of race or nationality, the problem would have been worse, and more importantly, we wouldn’t have hope, but I do. Because of them, and only them.
Esra’a, the obligation to defend its people is a government’s first and foremost duty. We are dismissing Israel’s right to self defense out of hand. And yet, Israel has had to fight for her survival repeatedly, since her inception.
The War of Independence, in which my father fought at the age of 16, was a war that pitted a population of 600,000 against a population of 100,000,000. It was a war of self-defense in which the newly fledgling state was invaded by 5 Arab armies.
The 1967 war was also a war of self defense in which Nasser, and his allies, were ready, and willing to destroy the Jewish state.
The 1973 war came unexpectedly, and Israel came perilously close to using nuclear weapons defensively because Dayan actually thought the war would be lost.
And even now, Iran is threatening to “wipe Israel off the map” and is in the process of acquiring the weapons which would put her in a position to do just that.
Well, in this context, and with terrorist activity being planned and perpetrated on a daily basis, is it any wonder that Israeli leadership is a bit paranoid and obsessed with security? Or is it only a natural reaction to the circumstances at hand, circumstances beyond their control?
Having said that, I believe that the occupation is wrong and should be brought to a quick end. That will not be accomplished by calling Israel a “racist” country, because as Elizabeth says, how can you make peace with someone you deem evil? In fact, in my opinion, the back and forth blame game is just a delaying tactic used by some to avoid doing what has to be done to point to the possibility of peace. We can talk ourselves to death, but justice will still be out of reach.
If you want peace with the Palestinians you have no choice but to build the beginnings of a sense of trust. You have to find a neutral pathway to peace. One way of doing that is to create jobs in the territories, and to help revitalize the economy there. Preferably green jobs based on state of the art environmental research, conducted in the territories themselves, along with educational enrichment to young students about regional environmental problems and solutions. Israel and the U.S. are in a position to do that, and I think would be willing. If an effort of this sort is undertaken, then hopefully people on both sides will give up their hatreds and doubts in favor of working together to build a better day. In other words: how about less talking and more doing? Or are we going to satisfy ourselves with good lawyerly arguments while a people is laid to waste?
I agree with Nissim Dahan 100% but let me explain something that people across the world need to understand, and even though its unfortunate its almost inevitable, The USA will go to war, without question if a Nuclear bomb is created in Iran. The Jewish States and the US have a very interesting bond, we give Israel weapons, they give us a base half way across the world, even our special forces have been known to work with each other on several occasions. Now nobody wants this is any way or form, but we all agree that the USA will enter a war without question, for what ever reason its what my country does, and its unfortunate but true. The chances of this being over Israel is 80%, and this would in fact spark a WWIII, and we would be fighting almost most of the Middle East, of course with exceptions. Honestly people need to stop fighting because in the end, it is just going to blow up in everybody’s faces with an unnecessary loss of life on all sides….
What a beautiful little boy Adam is! Very soulful expression. My hope for him is that the world community of nations will be able to convince Israel to stop it’s unreasonable behavior long before Adam is old enough to have to think about it, or take action. I hope he will grow up with every opportunity a child of this world should have. Loving family, healthful food, good healthcare, daily security, education. May his hardest choice in life be to pick which profession to study for. Doctor, lawyer, teacher.
Thank you Nissim and Elizabeth.
You are being the sane – balanced- eased mind ones here.
I am against the occupation, I am for opening the Gaza’s border – now!, I am for peace, I am making a lot of Palestinians friends because I think this is the right way, I am trying to do everything I can for this great purpose of peace,for humane right and so on. There are so many like me , and others who make better than me.
But – I never give a hand to a passion’s inmflaming and to extreme talking and doing. These achieve the opposite. Neither for generalization – it is so wrong to make.
I believe it is time talking positive about everything. I believe it is time to be looking forward. I believe it is about time to be optimistic – although it is so very difficult to be, I do realize. I believe we should be more open-minded to the other side needs. To be human.
We are one. The person who ignore that – is making a mistake, and I wish them to open their eyes and ears wide – to accept that.
I am looking for comments of Palestinians and Israelis friends, with the spirit of peace and open mind, of optimism.
Let us change atitude for the better.
(and I wish I knew English better….:):) )
Yes Irit because obviously, only people whose ideology you subscribe to are “sane” and “balanced” and “ease minded.”
Personally I am not interested in comments such as “we are one” if it is not being acted upon. You say you are against the occupation, well how so and what are you doing on a daily basis in an attempt to limit the attacks that occur daily and in your name? Is there a campaign? I’d love to know.
Nissim,
We had this conversation 10 times before and to be honest, I am surprised that despite piles of evidence, you have been unable to admit your regime’s horrid mistakes which you and many others wrongly dismiss as “self defense.” You are allowing for this myth to cloud your own vision of what’s actually happening, evident human rights abuses which you consistently and shamelessly deny. So please, do me a favor, and don’t preach to me. Before doing so, first acknowledge and apologize for your mistakes. Otherwise, militant nationalism and the propaganda associated with it is far from an interest of mine. If you enjoy violence so much, find a new refutation that actually makes sense and not one based on pure arrogance and self-importance. It’s repugnant.
Finally, I find it not only odd but ironic for ardent nationalists to assume that somehow, defending themselves is honorable, but having another nation defend themselves against terror and violence is an unacceptable act that must be criticized and severely punished. Why is it that you feel that your life is worth more than another human being’s? Because whether or not you admit it, and however else you wish to frame it, this is in fact the case. It is a perfectly acceptable act in Israel to attack and humiliate any innocent Palestinian. But dare someone throw a rock at a shoe of a soldier as a response to mockery or aggression, chaos will ensue. “Terrorists! Barbarians! Dogs!” All of which are common nicknames to your “enemy.”
Policy is policy….. There has to be a set bureaucracy with a military as stringent as the IDF. I wonder if Hamas lets “first degree” relatives visit Gilad Shalit….
There will be no tangible peace with the Palestinians simply because they dont believe the Jews have any right to the land, and I’m not speaking of the west bank but of Haifa and Acko as well.
-the problem with the two state solution is, why should the Palestinians settle for half of the land, when they believe all of it is theirs? This is a legitimate belief. But still as a jew I have my land (biblical Israel,) and I will live in it without fear or guilt. To me I believe these soldiers are truly amazing in a sense that they are on the front lines preventing terrorism on Israeli civilians. I understand that the policy regarding the child may seem ridiculous, but I assure you every bureaucracy, especially military bureaucracies have these pitfalls.
BTW, for those of you who may say I’m a racist, or a Fascist. I’m honestly just a realist, my girlfriend is Lebanese and we talk politics all the time. Feel free to e-mail me with a response, I’d be glad to hear what you have to say. My e-mail is knext87@yahoo.com
I am sorry, Ezra, if that how I am understood – then this is my fault obviuosly. ( or – my lack in language) I am not for ignoring the reality – but I believe there is a different way to deal with it and to speak about.
as for your question – beside joining demostrations, and peace organizations, and signing petitions,and making real friends,(i mean – not avirtual) and speaking with people, and helping palestinians friends with kind of bureaucracy problems ( not always with sucess) – I do nothing.
but – i am willng to do . Do you have something on your mind? more practical maybe?
( and just to avoid another misunderstanding – I am not being cynical)
As much as I appreciate the attempt to clear Israelis from the day-to-day reality in the Palestinian territories, it is incorrect. Most Israelis support a two-state-solution, and so do most Palestinians, but peace alludes us. It’s because of the incompetent leadership on both sides. The problem on the Israeli side doesn’t come from the “regime”, but from the people who elect the leaders, since despite what you might say, Israel is a democracy. People in Iran, for example, can say that they aren’t to blame for anything their regime does, and they would be right, because they didn’t elect the Supreme Leader. Israelis are their government. Most Israelis are militant, Zionists, paranoid, constantly feel like victims, and don’t understand and don’t wish to understand the other side. That is why a person like Lieberman can use racist slogans and gain popularity. Governments in Israel are replaced often, but never for being too hard on the Palestinians, the opposite is true. Governments loose support when people feel that too many concessions are given, when they feel that the government is not aggressive enough in protecting them.
That doesn’t mean that the hatred toward Israelis as a group is justified, because many of them are decent. However, saying that it’s the “regime” and not the people who are to blame, almost gives Israelis a free pass on serious problems that need to be fixed in our society.
Thank you all dears, even those who oppose my narrative.
The last two days I was busy in a “peace” conference( if there might be peace in this “holy land”) and didnt follow the comments. The majority in the conference were jews and there were Palestinians even from Gaza. It was great to meet such great people as it was really great to live “peaceful” hours before going into the hell of checkpoints again.
It could be that my words in the story seemed sibilant and harsh but that because I really felt frustrated and suffocated when writing the so fresh story of my 54 days baby, and as you know suffocated throat cant speak but sibilant and hoarse voice !!!
Still I criticize and will keep criticizing the regime but not the people. I have a lot of jews friends from inside Israel and everywhere as some of them come and have a “peaceful” weekend at my desolate home, and I dont see jews nor Israelis (as a whole society) as racists nor would allow myself to think in such a fanatic way, that they are finally humans just like us…. but still the racist israeli regime is my enemy that I would never reconciliate with… just look at the last few “laws” presented to the Knesset to be proved: Denying the Nakba, The Loyalty Law, The Land Law and some other “law” drafts that were presented to the Knesset only in the past four months, they are all to serve the colonizers and to more marginalize and suppress the native minority… tell me if I am wrong, if so you are just like the regime “racist”!!!
I am a human that is seeking a human and dignified life just as equal as any new “jew” immigrant to this “promised land”…. I am calling for justice for all, a state that would enfold us all as humans but not “supernatural” settlers who have the right on their “promised land” and “beast” natives who “should be treated like animals” !!!
PS: to understand the current situation on the ground, please read my other posts specially: http://www.mideastyouth.com/2009/07/13/jeninstan-of-mr-dayton-and-the-“two-states”-solution/
I guess we must like talking to each other.
I am working with Johns Hopkins University to start a Center for Talented Youth Program in the West Bank. We will partner with The Technion in Israel, and with a Palestinian partner, hopefully Berzeit University, to offer internet courses on the environment to the brightest Muslim, Jewish, and Christian students of the region. The program will include face to face lab work, and summer camp programs devoted to finding solutions the the environmental issues which plague the region, and beyond.
After the internet phase is in full swing, we want to build an environmental reseach facility in the West Bank. Key scholars from around the world, along with student interns, will work to find solutions to the environmental challenges of the region, including water shortages, food production, clean energy, and the like. The research factility will partner with local entrepreneurs to create businesses based on the researh, along with the profits and jobs which are integral to the whole process, by launching and marketing the products and technologies on the open market.
We see such an effort as a neutral pathway to peace. If the project is successful, then it will attract worldwide attention and additional investment dollars, so that what begins as a single solitary project could well become the impetus for a movement for change. This could lead, for example, to an industrial zone between Gaza and Israel which create 200,000 jobs, and allows Hamas to compete with Fatah for political power using legitimate means.
We are putting the figures together, along with a business plan, and will soon be raising the money to make something happen along these lines. Saudi financing would be the icing on the cake and would say to the world that oil profits are being used to generate green profits, and that good paying green jobs are being used to weaken the hold of extremist thinking.
What do you think, Esra’a?
Sami, that is great that the people are trying to work together, if everyone was like you, and would sit down and have an intellectual conversation and try to understand from their viewpoint, the world would be a better place, i really hope that one day everyone can put this aside and just work together
I wish I could have been following the comments more closely, but I had to work, plus the time in Miami is 3:16 in the afternoon. I have no idea what time (or day for that matter) it is in your respective countries. First I wana say that this is the kind of debate and conversation I was looking for when I came to this website. As I’ve stated before, there’s two sides to every story. And here we’re seeing all the sides to the entire story. But guys, I like to take the simple aproach to everything. If the Palestinians would just drop there weapons, and worry about building communities and promoting economic prosperity, then there lives would be so much better. And on the Jewish side, if they stopped abusing Palestinians and welcomed them into their cities and neighborhoods, and allowed them the freedom of religion, freedom of the press, freedom of speech, and freedom to worship whatever they want, then I’m sure it would generate a better response from the Palestinian side. And if both sides worked to expel the terrorist and extremist from BOTH sides, then the entire country could be a better place. That’s the aproach I wish people would take. Build schools, bridges, roads, factories, and houses, not bullets, bombs, and rockets. That’s what I say
@Sami, myself being a million miles away in the states I can say I hear your words. I know how in the heat of something when you write about it, things can come out harsher then intended.
It doesn’t sound like passing thru checkpoints is very pleasent. Here stateside(USA) I can’t think of a time in my entire life where I have had to pass such a checkpoint.
Anyhow my girl is waking from a nap and we’re going to the cinema.
Good weekend to all
Dear Mr. Nissim,
It seems that you are “beating behind the bush” in your last comment (Nissim Dahan – August 8th, 2009 at 10:02 am ) and tempting me with great opportunities of “business” “dollars” and “peace” at the same time you are drooling for the Saudi financial support!!! I am not a Fateh nor would ever be a Hamas member nor would ever never support any of them… I am just the simple Palestinian of the street who is looking for freedom not normalization with the zionists…. I am the free people who are looking for ending the zionist project… no more no less….. zionism = racizm =nazism, however judaism is just another religion that we all should respect….. I am a human and not a bissnessman who is looking for dollars or fame based on faked “peace” and normalization!!!!
please try to use your mind (not the deceptive zionist one) while reading my post:
http://www.mideastyouth.com/2009/07/06/mocia-the-tricky-jewish-girl-and-me/
and the other posts of course, to see for you bare eyes that I cant be baught, deceived nor silenced…. I am a freeman, I am every single one of the suppressed Palestinian people.
All the best Mr Nissim With your ZIONIST deception!!!!
Well, Sami, why don’t you tell us what you really think?
Here’s the problem, as I see it. There can be no “freedom” without “normalization.” And if you really are hell bent on “…ending the zionist project…” then you will have no choice but to become what you say you detest.
I did read your previous post that you referred to. If you want to look at the underbelly of any society, including your own, there’s plenty of dirt to see. If, on the other hand, you give people the benefit of the doubt, and give them a chance to partner with you in good faith, then who knows, maybe you’ll be surprised that there are Israelis, even in government, who really want peace, and who would be willing to bring to you a good measure of justice in that regard.
I don’t doubt that you have been oppressed. As a Jew I can relate to that, since our people have suffered persecution for some 2000 years, after we were kicked out of our land, culminating in the travesty of the Holocaust, which still remains one of the most evil deeds perpetrated by the hand of man. That experience convinces us that we have no choice but to protect ourselves vigorously in our homeland, the land of Israel.
But if you want a partner, hopefully an honest partner, well, here I am. Business is not as dirty as you make it out to be. Business creates its own ideological imperative. If people are making money together they don’t have much time or patience for ideological nonsense.
And no, I am not “drooling” over Saudi money. I can raise money from other sources. I consider Saudi investment in my project to be highly symbolic. In fact, the entire project is highly symbolic in that it addresses the world’s most intractable problems: threats to our Economy, threats to the Environment, and threats posed by ideological Extremism. What I call the 3-E’s. And I believe that the Saudis may be persuaded to use this opportunity as a way of moving their nation toward a more moderate position, without taking too much flack over it from the extremists.
I have not suffered what you have, but I would like to believe that I can at least imagine it. If I can imagine peace, I can imagine almost anything else. I do hope that over time, and with good intentions manifested on both sides, that your cynicism will be softened somewhat, and you will see new opportunities to move forward in a way that makes sense to all concerned.
Mr Nissim,
Who is going thru hell of suppression and face racism everyday cant make peace… peace is done between masters and you cant make peace with me while putting your foot in my mouth, you are suffocating us in all ways, using our resources, demolishing our homes, confescating our land, burning our fields, uprooting our olive-trees… and still talking of peace? How funy and Disgusting the fanatic settlers are…. damaging our natural resources and burning our crop fields and talking of ecological projects “financed by the Saudis”? How tricky and misleading the whole world you are!! I dont buy this Mr. Dahan…. First I got to force you talk off your foot from my mouth then i can talk of “peace”, and I dont need the support of anybody as I have a rich land and a genius people who would never ever forget Palestine nor stop struggling for their freedom… it’s been over 60 years and the Israeli security is not getting better but worse, no settler can feel safe while oppressing the natives, let it be another 60 years and my little Adam will make peace with you after we become the vast majority, and most of the colonizers run away back to their home, to Russia or Ethiopia. This is PALESTINE !!!
I can agree with that, that’s why I beleive in educating the children, on something important, something like the environment, which threatens all of us. With education, and with a decent job, all of which is part of my project, will come a sense of equality, and a sense of dignity, which will naturally help to pave the path to peace.
I never said that ideological extremism is only to be found on one side of the fence. There is plenty of extremism to go around. But the settlers, and their beliefs, do not have to derail the peace process. Ehud Barack, in the year 2000, offered to dismantle most of the settlements. In the final deal, a lot of settlements will be dismantled, and some will be retained. And, believe it or not, as your prime minister said, there is no real reason why Jews can live in a future Palestine, just like Israeli Arabs live in Israel. I think you would benefit from a Jewish population. They’ll teach you how to eat lox and bagels.
You people are smart, and the land is good, but if I were you, I would accept help from others, if it is given in good faith. Jews are pretty smart too, but they needed a hell of a lot of help in building and sustaining the land of Israel.
For Jews, Israel is their home. You seem to think of Judaism and Zionism as two different things. They’re not. They are the same thing. They are like two buddies watching out for each other. Each is nothing without the other, as history has shown. Jews are going nowhere else, anytime soon, not if they can help it. They know what it is like not to have a home, and to be scattered in a world that could care less. Been there, done that. How about coming up with another formula, by which two people, both exposed to the brutality of life, learn to live together, in peace, prosperity, and freedom, despite the predictions of those who said it couldn’t happen.
That is not correct. Many Jews are not Zionists and the two are in no way equivalents. Do you know anything about your own religion?
The vast majority of Jews are Zionists. In Judaism, Zionism is not a dirty word. There is a prayer that we say “Next year in Jerusalem…” which we’ve been saying, in one way or another for some 2000 years.
The reason I say that Judaism and Zionism go hand in hand is that history has shown that without a homeland, Jews had no future. The Holocaust wiped out one third of the world’s Jews. There are only about 12 million Jews in the world. And if Israel did not come into existence, there would be no reason to expect that that persecution would have come to an end, after continuing for some 2000 years.
The nations of the world always need scapegoats to cover for their own misdeeds and shortcomings, and in the past, Jews were perfect for the part. Zionism gave Jews the courage to fight for their own land, and to establish themselves as a nation, a nation that could protect its citizenry, and a nation that could give Jews all over the world something to be proud of.
No, I am not an expert on my religion. But I know that for the vast majority of Jews, Judaism and Zionism do go hand in hand. That does not excuse the abuses of Zionism. In any movement of that type, especially against such incredible odds, there will be abuses, abuses which run contrary to the teachings and spirit of Jewish law. That is why many Jews are conflicted about some of the things that Israel is doing. However, the basic support for the State of Israel is still there.
What would make Judaism and Zionism reconciled to one another, and what would truly guarantee the security of the State of Israel is peace. Peace is the ultimate form of security. And therefore, despite anything you may think, I am committed to peace, because I love Israel, and want her to survive. I think we can find a neutral pathway to peace if we set some of the B.S. aside, and finally decide to do something for one another that creates its own reality and that speaks louder than words.
Zionism is a modern term that was founded by Theodor Hertzel and there are many jews who oppose and even fight zionism. have a look on the following sites to see what some jews say about Israel and zionism, it simply doesnt represent jews. Judaism is a religion that the most extremest muslem believes in as religion of God delivered to Moses, however zionism is a racist ideology that was founded and developed by the colonizer jews like Hertzel, Jabotinsky, Rabai Abraham Kock and others and they all are racist:
The jews have lived among the muslems as true brothers since the beginning of History until the zionists came and poisoned the atmosphere, in Iraq only there were over 100,000 jews living successfully in a prosperous community until the zionist came early in the 20th century to sabotage the relation!!!
http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/zionism/notjews.cfm
http://www.onepalestine.org
http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com
http://www.petitiononline.com/unzio/petition.html
You cant monopolize the truth at the age of internet Mr. Dahan
Indeed, Nissim, I think you are wrong. That the majority of Jews are Zionist may have been true in the past. It’s no longer a reality. I’m Jewish, Israeli and no longer Zionist. Same for my husband, and same for many many Israelis I know. And the Jews in Europe, where I come from? A few religious fanatics – mainly French – still come on aliyah. From my experience and the Jews I know in Europe, many have changed their mind. The fascist nature of the Israeli state is more and more obvious to see. You, in the US, never had to live in a fascist & military regime – but in Europe people still know what it means and see the signs of this here more and more clearly. Especially the War on Gaza has open many eyes. Zionism is a deformation of Judaism, an ideology built on it, racist and outdated as a political system. Not every Jew (and as I believe, today only a minority) is ready to believe the official Israeli government propaganda (=Hasbarah) any more. Right now the government is importing doctors from Georgia – - do you think that there aren’t enough Jewish doctors around the world?? Why don’t they come to Israel? Because Zionism is on it’s deathbed. And hopefully, soon… RIP!!
You cannot monopolize the truth period. In fact, most of the time you can’t even know that what you believe is true. The most you can do is to use your God-given common sense to make the best guess as to what the truth is. And even then you’ll probably be wrong a lot of the time. That’s the world we find ourselves. Even more reason to stop believing in what we want to believe, and to start believing in what makes sense. Instead of jumping to false belief and thenrationalizing why we’re right, why not use rationality in the first place to arrive at what is worth believing in?
According the the dictionary I used in college, which granted was about 38 years ago, Zionism is defined as a world-wide Jewish movement for the establishment in Palestine of a national homeland for the Jews. To the best of my knowledge, having been born in Israel, and having a family there for some 200 years, the vast majority of Jews deeply believe in Zionism. They may not agree with everything Israel does, but they wholeheartedly believe in the right of Israel to exist as Jewish homeland.
The websites you are pointing to are fine and dandy, but do not represent even a tiny minority of Jews. Yes, I know that there are people who hold such views. For example, there is a very religious community of Jews in Jerusalem that does not recognize the existence of the State of Israel because the Messiah had not yet come when it was established. Well, to them I say, “We have seen the Messiah, and he is us.”
I am glad that most Muslims recognize Judaism as a religion of God. In fact, unless I’m mistaken, if we both trace our ancestry to Abraham, then we are both of the same blood. Or am I missing something. If the Prophet Muhammad quotes Moses in one third of the Quran then that means something as well. And you’re right to say that on the whole, Muslims treated the Jews relatively well when they didn’t have a homeland. My wife’s family was treated well in Egypt until Nasser decided to give them 24 hours to get out. My father in law lost his business, his house, all the family possessions, and fell quickly from a position of wealth to one of poverty. And the same fate befell some 850,000 Jews in the wake of the establishment of the State of Israel.
Sami, if you went through 2000 years of persecution, and then a Holocaust to cap it all off, wouldn’t you fight like hell of a home of your own? And having gone through what you went through, wouldn’t you fight for your survival even if you had to do things you know are wrong?
Now, you could turn that back on me and say that that is precisely what you’re doing in fighting against the “Zionist Entity.” Well, you would be right if there were no alternative. What I’m saying to you, in light of current realities on the ground, is that there is an alternative, based on: using an ideology of common sense to speak to one another with common sense and with a sense of personal dignity, investing in one another to create jobs which grow the economy, which protect the environmment, and which neutralize the hold of extremist thinking, using ideology and investment to sell one another on a vision of hope, a vision of peace, prosperity, and freedom, sustaining the hope with public diplomacy including the empowerment of women, and fighting against the forces of extremism, wherever it is found, but also positioning the fight within a vision of hope. Raising the fight on the ground to a higher moral plain by giving the fight a moral clarity of purupose. In the final analysis, the ideological extremists, no matter what side of the fence they are one, will not be able to capture the public’s imagination, once people begin to imagine a better life for themselves.
If this alternative does not exist, then you are right to keep on fighting. But I say that is does exist if we decide together, as equal partners, to dream the impossible, and to make the impossible come true.
And that’s not what Judaism means or represents, so I’m not sure why you’re assuming that this is what the Jewish faith is all about. Obviously, it is not, even in the opinion of many Jews such as Eva. Defining what is esentially a political movement as “Judaism” is just silly.
Zionism does not equal Judaism and some Jews are not Zionists. But most Jews are Zionists in that they support the existence of a Jewish state in what has been our historical homeland. And for many of us, Israel forms an important part of our identity. This whole Zionism does not equal Judaism thing sometimes gets on my nerves. It appears to be an attempt to distinguish the “good Jews” from the “bad Jews”. In my opinion this is not a good way to build trust and understanding between people.
Esra’a, I’m not exactly the one who is best qualified to explain the nuances of Judaism, and to show how it relates to Zionism. But let’s take one example, the Book of Exodus in the Bible. What’s that story all about?
The Jews were slaves in the land of Egypt, and were suffering the oppression of slavery. Moses comes along, as the man chosen by God to lead his people out of the land of Egypt. Pharoah wasn’t easily convinced, and it took some 10 plagues to change his mind. He let the people go, and they wandered in the desert for some 40 years, until finally they were delivered to the “promised land” the land of Israel. Moses had defied the Lord here and there, so he was not permitted to enter the promised land. But the people were, and there was a covenant with God that this would be there home, and that they would be charged with following the law as given to Moses by God at Mount Sinai.
So Esra’s, just this story alone confirms what I’ve been saying, that Zionism, or a return to Palestine as a Jewish homeland, is an integral part of Judaism. You cannot separate the two.
What Eva, and others are talking about is her opinion that Israel has not lived up to the promise of her founding, in that she oppresses the Palestinians. What Israel would say is that she oppresses the Palestinians only to the extent necessary for security, and only in response to their intention to destroy the Jewish State. So you have a Catch 22 situation, or a chicken and egg situation. Which came first, the chicken or the egg? What caused what, oppression of the Palestinians, or Palestinian desire to destroy the Jewish State?
Because this argument can’t be won, I suggest that instead of arguing, we build. Afterall, I was a builder for some 30 years. I personally sold and built some half a billion dollars worth of homes. I know about building. But I’m not going to be able to win this argument. So why not build, instead?
Let’s build an internet classroom about the environment, for the brightest Muslim Jewish, and Christian kids in the region. Johns Hopkins, The Technion, and hopefully a leading Palestinian University will be our partners. We will expand to include face-to-face lab work and summer camp programs. Then we will build a state of the art envrionmental research facility in the West Bank, a facility which will partner with local entrepreneurs to create good paying green jobs and profits for a new Palestine. The project could easily grow into a green industrial zone with thousands of jobs in the offing. What starts as a single solitary project would attract a lot of attention and a lot of investment dollars, and could become the impetus for a movement for change.
I am being serious.
You see Esra’a, I may be able to build such a facility, because I am a builder, but I will never be able to win this argument.
Hi Sami,
This kid is very beautiful, his eyes are a world of peace:)
I am very sorry for the situation you describe in your post and I really hope that your borther in-law moves out of prision, that you and Israelis one day have a stable relationship, one that promises mutual understanding and respect, co-opetation for a better future.
Sami, in my land, where we are not in a war with any other country and it seems that it is Iranians ruling over Iranians, you hear stories of how prisoners are treated. The prisons are suddenly closed as a policy to hide the crimes that happened behide the bars. Children of this country were tortured to death adn today the ones responsible say, the prosiners died of virus not of torture. Sami, a girl is arrested for being in the emonstrations and few days later her burnt corps is discovered from dersets around another city close to Tehran, and many other sotired about the same girl I would refrain from communicating, and this is our land, and they call themselves Iranians, the ones who silence bloggers by hanging, activists by torture, I don’t know if it wasn’t for the internet, I would ever have the chance to let you know what is going on in this country. Our oppressors are trying to show they support you, they have tried to hire some men from your side of the world to silence our uprisings, but they cannot fool us, you are not my enemy, I am not your enemy and we are not the enemies of Israelis, we are all being used against one another, people are all in one side and agiant them, there are the regimes who are trying to keep their power all to themselves without sharing it would people. I don’t know, I have lost my sense of making sense, I have lost the vision that wonce seemed directing, what I refuse to do is calling any people my enemy, because I am their friends and they are mine, you guys are my brothers and sisters, so are the people in Israel, this little kid with those beautiful big eyes, he is my future, and I have the responsibility to make this region and better place for him and for my daughter, the same thing applies to the kids in Israel, they are all Our kids and we have to be responsible, despite the tragedies, desite all the events that lead us to flood againt one another, we hare human beings, we are brethren and we strongly feel for one another and our future is too tied to one another to think of a future regardless of the other.
Best wishes for you and your beautiful family
Elinor
Iran
You have a beautiful soul Elinor.
No Mr. Dahan, … If I was persecuted by the Nazi I would never use his tools and mentality to justify my persecution to other innocent people..
I am living in the hell since I was born but still have the sanity to think as a human that distinguish right from wrong… to be human or inhuman… I see jews as my brothers and sisters but cant (nor would never) reconcile with a racist ideology and internalize it like you… I am fighting racism even in our side who see all jews are criminals or all are racist zionist, they are not all racist zionists Mr. Dahan, and if you are, dont try to include all the jews and convince them to use and reuse the very nazist tools and mentality of superiority rover the natives … the world is not devided as jews-vs-gentiles, we are all humans and everybody has the right to believe whatever he wants to but not to oppress the others in the name of his race and claim that he is “chosen” by God and was given a “promised land” while all the others are less humans, if not beasts as considered by the fanatic zionists…. This is the racist mentality the I will keep fighting wither it was nazist = zionist = fascist = or any other racist one you might think of ….
suppression based on blood or race can never be justified Mr Dahan, please read my post on “tribalism” and see how I could step out of any blinding ideology based on nonsense of racist blood-ties !!! just like the zionists who think that all the jews are one “supernatural” race who are “chosen”, who chose them anyway, if not their distorted mentality of self-glorifying while denouncing the others, all the other, the gentiles !!!
http://www.mideastyouth.com/2009/06/22/tribalism-a-bedouin-approach/
Well, Sami, I guess you’re a saint. Because as you say, you wouldn’t do anything wrong, even if it was to protect yourself or your family. I’m not as good as you are. I choose to settle for something less than perfect, but something that is real, and that points to the possibility of peace. We can’t all be saints afterall.
Hey Sam. I’m Joining the IDF in a couple months… I cant wait to meet you
.
I understand where you are coming from, and frankly if I weren’t a Jew I’d probably be on your side. People like “EVA” (extreme left wing jews) are only leaving Israel and a new wave of strong Ideological zionist jews are coming to the Jewish state of Israel.
Forget what all these “dreamers” say…….. Peace in the middle east between arabs and jews is unattainable. As long as there is a jewish state even in pre-67 boarders there will be conflict. If you havent heard of “KAHANE” already, you should read him. He was a true visionary and was murdered by one of your own.
If the fight isnt with bulletes, it will be a battle to who will overpopulate the other with babies. I believe in a two state solution but I believe one of those states is jordan. And a final solution will be to have the arabs expelled from Israel. This will most likely happen after the next big war which is soon to come, and Israel wont tolerate a fifth column. So go ahead have your intifada we’ll see where that gets you. If it weren’t for israel and the jewish people you’d still be combing your hair with camel piss. You lucky your educated (at least literate) Ultimately we have a shitty situation. but the jews will prevail, not because of our military might (which we didnt have in 48) but because we are doubly blessed and cursed. “If God is for us, who can be against us” (new testament) . BTW I’m not at all religious but I am a Zionist and the only way I can rationalize Zionism is with Judaism. THE TWO ARE DEPENDANT ON EACH OTHER, ZIONISM=JUDAISM. These left wing Jews that say it isnt so, have no clue what Judaism is.
Anyway hope to see you soon, When I’m in my Kravi unit.
This is pathetic…. Danny i believe in holding a strong military beacuse its good for the country and good if something does happen, but it should not be used, this Zionism is just racism, people can live in peace, in the USA we have all races and religions and they all live on the same street, your pathetic.
Zionism isnt racism. Zionisim is a nationalistic view. Where the jews return to their homeland. The term Jew refers to a religion (that will make up the “nation” of israel). ANY RACE CAN BE JEWS. for example I am a middle eastern jew, not a european.
Zionism isnt Racism.
Such blunt words shouldn’t be said without having prior knowledge about the Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) and the religion of Islam. Before casting such huge insults to all Muslims around the world, grab an english translation of the Hold book of Qur’an and read it very well. If you are an educated person, you would realize that no man can write this 1400 years ago, especially if you comprehend the scientific miracles within it.
I hope you show some respect in your future posts.
I’m sorry if this is off-topic, but I had to reply to these words.
I’m sure that most of you agree that it is best to discuss issues in a respectable constructive manner rather than resorting to offensive, disrespectful words that are not backed by reasonable thought.
I can’t help but get the feeling that Danny is a troll. But assuming Danny is who he says he is, may God help Israel if such a Judeo-fascist like Danny is moving there.
Danny supports Meir Kahane, a radical self-proclaimed Rabbi who wasn’t allowed to run for elections in Israel for being a racist. Danny represents the fringes of the Jewish community, and most in Israel won’t agree that Arabs and Palestinians need to be forcibly kicked out of Israel, like Kahane advocated. Danny just needs to get “properly” absorbed in the IDF. After he survives the grueling months of boot-camp and the treatment arrogant bastards like him get in the army, he won’t be bragging like this. He’ll be too busy cleaning kitchens with his tongue.
Nissim, Esra’a: regarding the Judaism/Zionism debate. Most Jews, in fact, are not real Zionists, since they are living abroad and not fulfilling what Zionism is all about – settling in the Land of Israel. You might say that they support the existence of Israel as a Jewish state, but their unwillingness to join in the effort speaks for itself.
When Zionism first emerged, it was strongly opposed by the religious community in Europe. Zionism, like its founder Hertzl, was a secular movement. It’s of course not disconnected from Judaism, because returning to the Land of Israel is based on our Scripture (Hertzl rejected the offer to settle the Jews in Uganda). Even today, the ultra-Orthodox parties in Israel and the ultra-Orthodox communities abroad are against Zionism. They claim that until the Messiah comes, liberates the land of Israel and rebuilds the Temple, Jews shouldn’t live in Israel.
Evidently neither do you. You admitted already that you’re not religious, so you not knowing much about your own faith isn’t one bit surprising. But who can expect that you would? You don’t even know anything about decency and moral behavior.
Have fun in your military, but understand that decent Israelis like Eva will emerge as leaders of that country, and criminals like yourself will be locked up for war crimes and murder. By then you will be begging the forgiveness of people like Sami who had to endure the suffering criminals like you put them through.
Elizabeth, you are just great, though I know that we are from a very opposing camps but I have to take off my hat in respect, that I know you are at least rational, a person to whom i can talk and reach to a kind of compromise… However, Danny, I could have replied to him earlier today but I dont have time to wast with such mentality. Danny, detailed informations including my ID number and cellphone number are available at mepeace. org and you are invited to have a cup of coffee in my bedouin tent which I would never leave but on my dead body…
This weekend I have a group of jews, not fanatic, invited to my tent (on the house) and I am really willing to have you Elizabeth, though I know you are standing at the very opposite side but at least rational and (for sure) educated !!
Nissim, thank you for commenting and I learn from your comments to react back, not against you but, against the fanatic Zionists ( should I say like Danny “Yattom”)? Never mind, I have served in the israeli jail (for my freedom) probably more than your age Danny!!!
All the best all
Sami, the bedouin.
I “served in jail” as well… its funny how that works. I just read an article not too long ago about Arabs getting degrees in jail. An honest question, out of curiosity did you have that privilege?
I was a “dreamer” for peace also. I believe there could be compromise between Arabs and Jews, and if any of you guys read my first post I even mentioned my current girlfriend is Lebanese (we get along just fine, and talk politics and the news everyday). But the day my good friend was blown to pieces in a bus bombing, that all changed. I tried to figure why anyone could rationalize doing such a cold blooded murderous act like this… And eventually I understood the conflict.- The arabs want us off the land. Simple as that. And I totally get that….. but to kill civilians? teenagers? kids? that weren’t throwing rocks, bombs, or involved in any “intifada”, completely apathetic to the conflict in the mid-east, is repulsively barbaric.
I apologize for getting carried away (with my anger) in my previous post. But the point I want to bring is, there cant/wont be a compromise. The arabs dont recognize the jews historic and biblical right to the land (and why should they?). And the jews want a jewish state of Israel were they wont be persecuted again or face another holocaust. ——–Many of the leftists think this is about the west bank, give them (PA) the west bank to create a palestinian state and they will be somewhat satisfied….but why is Rammalla or Jenin any more arab than Acko or Yafo? Why should the arabs settle for any less then what is completely theirs? Land concessions will achieve nothing until the jews are in the sea. As was partially evident in the case of gaza. where we expelled 10,000 jews and recieved rockets in return (rockets flying into pre-67 israel).
And if you say Hamas is just some extreme organization that doesn’t represent the Palestinian people, keep in mind Hamas was democratically elected by the people of Gaza.
And as I said before if I wasn’t a jew, I wouldn’t be a Zionist….. I would most definitely be for the Palestinian cause. And although I’m not religious or keep kosher, for some obscure reason I believe in god. And will settle in the land he gave to my people, to prevent another holocaust.
I agree with you sami. The Jewish state of Israel is fucked! and it probably wont exist in 60 or even 20 years, but this wont be because Israel is a racist, fascist regime. But because Israel is a democracy. And currently 34% of Israeli children are Arabs. So just wait… I’m sure the Israeli Knesset will act differently when a 1/3 of its members are Arab and then 1/2. All this is of course if Israel doesn’t get nuked first by Iran. Its only a matter of time….
I’m not a “juedeo-fascist”, I’m a realist. I don’t believe in true peace because its not possible.
But I swear, I wish there was a possibility for peace. I wish we could end this bloodshed. I wish we could have peace. I have shed tears over this matter. but wishful thinking wont accomplish anything. And I wont stand by as more Jewish civilians become victims of terror. I understand we don’t live in a utopian, fantasy land, and I’m not naive.
What I am saying has nothing to do with racism. Technically I’m an Arab. I get along well with Arabs and talk politics all the time. What I’m saying is strictly in regards to the Israel/Palestine conflict. That aside Jews and Arabs live in peace (for the most part) with their differences, at least here in the US.
And if any of you could open my eyes to a true path for peace (without all the Jews leaving Israel) please let me know.
Danny*
Danny, you may be right on that, but since the alternative is so horrible, doesn’t it make sense to keep on trying?
In my opinion, for what it’s worth, there is no alternative to peace. But will it be peace among the living, or peace among the dead? And I’m not just talking about the Middle East here. The whole world is moving ever so slowly toward a dark and desolate place. If we don’t watch out, we will turn what could have been a paradise on earth, into a living hell, literally.
For example, if the environmental predictions come true, we are all dead men walking. Just imagine the sea level going up 20 feet. Israel is a coastal country. Isn’t it? What kind of a country will it be under water? Atlantis?
Imagine nuclear weapons ending up in the hands of terrorists. The writing is on the wall for the entire Middle East. That’s exactly where we’re heading if we don’t do something about it, and quick.
Imagine the world economy collapsing because some of the fundmental assumptions we’ve made about our economy are no longer proving to be true.
What I am suggesting, is that the confluence of problems around the world is beginning to point in two directions, and two directions only. Either we reorganize the way things are, or we’re going down, as have 99% of all species on earth. Simple as that.
What we need to do between Israelis and Palestinians, and around the world at large, is to create jobs: jobs which grow our economies, jobs which protect the environment, and jobs which help to neutralize the hold of extremist thinking. It’s no longer about what you believe, and what I believe. It’s about what will work, and what won’t.
We can create realities on the ground which speak louder than words, and which point to the possibility of peace, prosperity, freedom, and sustainability. We can start in the Middle East, and build a model which is highly symbolic, which resonates with hope, and which points in the right direction. In a world that is looking for answers, a single solitary project, properity positioned, could attract a lot of attention and a lot of investment dollar, to become the impetus for a movement for change.
If I were you, I wouldn’t worry too much about what people think, or what they believe. A lot of what we believe is nonsense. But it is way too scary to just admit that. What we need to do is to give each other the benefit of the doubt, and to step away from some of what we believe, in favor of something we can believe in even more, like peace. There is very little time for B.S., and alot of the conflicts around the world are just that. People thinking too much of themselves and not bothering to make sense of their lives. We can find a new way, and like Elinor says, it’s about the children, and all the generations yet to come. We owe it to them to let go of who we are, if just for a moment, so that we can become what we were meant to be.
we shouldn’t stop questioning for the solution of these problems. I strongly believe we can get answers after all.
Really? What solution? What resolution? What delusion?
Oh! I am so primitive, I forgot that we have had hundreds of solutions, resolutions, promises, “peace” conference, visions, delegations, delusions… but the situation is NOT getting better at all, it is deteriorating every year, and the Racist zionists are going ahead in their project of taking the whole Palestine and eating our flesh (of land) a bet with every brand new “promise”… Did you forget President Bush promise? it is so fresh…
They are all lying dear, just to give more time for the zionists… and I cant buy more lies, I have stacks of them in my memory and have no more room for them, I have only my free-mind and faith in the WHOLE of Palestine for every human living on it and there should never be place for discrimination… and time will show me and you that the racist regime can never prevail, but it will keep fighting until it finally falls !!!
I have a different vision.
Two nations, living side by side in peace, each teaching their children the lesson of tolerance toward one another, and preparing their children to compete in a global economy, while protecting and sustaining the environment. Two nations creating jobs: jobs which grow their economies, jobs which protect the environment, and jobs which help to weaken the hold of extremist thinking. Two peoples deciding to put the past behind them, and to partner together for the sake of a better future.
We can’t really count on our leaders to do all of this. Most of this can be done at the grass roots level. And by doing it ourselves, we will create pressure on the leadership to follow suit.
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