Arabs Need to Talk to the Israelis
written by:
Shaikh Salman bin Hamad al-Khalifa
Crown Prince of Bahrain
We need fresh thinking if the Arab Peace Initiative is to have the impact it deserves on the crisis that needlessly impoverishes Palestinians and endangers Israel’s security.
This crisis is not a zero-sum game. For one side to win, the other does not have to lose.
The peace dividend for the entire Middle East is potentially immense. So why have we not gotten anywhere?
Our biggest mistake has been to assume that you can simply switch peace on like a light bulb. The reality is that peace is a process, contingent on a good idea but also requiring a great deal of campaigning — patiently and repeatedly targeting all relevant parties. This is where we as Arabs have not done enough to communicate directly with the people of Israel.
An Israeli might be forgiven for thinking that every Muslim voice is raised in hatred, because that is usually the only one he hears. Just as an Arab might be forgiven for thinking every Israeli wants the destruction of every Palestinian.
Essentially, we have not done a good enough job demonstrating to Israelis how our initiative can form part of a peace between equals in a troubled land holy to three great faiths. Others have been less reticent, recognizing that our success would threaten their vested interest in keeping Palestinians and Israelis at each other’s throats. They want victims to stay victims so they can be manipulated as proxies in a wider game for power. The rest of us — the overwhelming majority — have the opposite interest.
It is in our interest to speak up now for two reasons. First, we will all be safer once we drain the pool of antipathy in which hatemongers from both sides swim.
Second, peace will bring prosperity. Already, the six oil and gas nations of the Gulf Cooperation Council have grown into a powerful trillion-dollar market. Removing the ongoing threat of death and destruction would open the road to an era of enterprise, partnership and development on an even greater scale for the region at large.
That is the glittering prize for resolving the dilemma of justice for Palestine without injustice to Israel. Effectively, this is the meta-issue that defines and distorts the self-image of Arabs and diverts too much of our energies away from the political and economic development the region needs.
The wasted years of deadlock have conditioned Israelis to take on a fortress mentality that automatically casts all Palestinians as the enemy — and not as the ordinary, decent human beings they are.
Speaking out matters, but it is not enough. Our governments and all stakeholders also must be ready to carry out practical measures to help ease the day-to-day hardship of Palestinian lives.
The two communities in the Holy Land are not fated to be enemies. What can unite them tomorrow is potentially bigger than what divides them today.
Both sides need help from their friends, in the form of constructive engagement, to reach a just settlement.
What we don’t need is the continued reflexive rejection of any initiative that seeks to melt the ice. Consider the response so far to the Arab peace plan, pioneered by King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia. This initiative is a genuine effort to normalize relations between the entire Arab region and Israel, in return for Israel’s withdrawal from occupied territory and a fair resolution of the plight of the Palestinians, far too many of whom live in refugee camps in deplorable conditions.
We must stop the small-minded waiting game in which each side refuses to budge until the other side makes the first move. We’ve got to be bigger than that. All sides need to take simultaneous, good-faith action if peace is to have a chance. A real, lasting peace requires comprehensive engagement and reconciliation at the human level. This will happen only if we address and settle the core issues dividing the Arab and the Israeli peoples, the first being the question of Palestine and occupied Arab lands. The fact that this has not yet happened helps to explain why the Jordanian and Egyptian peace accords with Israel are cold. They have not been comprehensive.
We should move toward real peace now by consulting and educating our people and by reaching out to the Israeli public to highlight the benefits of a genuine peace.
To be effective, we must acknowledge that, like people everywhere, the average Israeli’s primary window on the world is his or her local and national media. Our job, therefore, is to tell our story more directly to the Israeli people by getting the message out to their media, a message reflecting the hopes of the Arab mainstream that confirms peace as a strategic option and advocates the Arab Peace Initiative as a means to this end. Some conciliatory voices in reply from Israel would help speed the process.
Some Arabs, simplistically equating communication with normalization, may think we are moving too fast toward normalization. But we all know that dialogue must be enhanced for genuine progress. We all, together, need to take the first crucial step to lay the groundwork to effectively achieve peace. So we must all invest more in communication.
Once we achieve peace, trade will follow. We can then create a “virtuous circle,” because trade will create its own momentum. By putting real money into people’s hands and giving them real power over their lives, trade will help ensure the durability of peace. The day-to-day experience would move minds and gradually build a relationship of trust and mutual interest, without which long-term peacemaking is impossible.
When stability pays, conflict becomes too costly. We must do more, now, to achieve peace.
The writer is crown prince of Bahrain.
Join the Conversation
So,
The whole problem is that we, arabs, are not addressing the zionists with our message of peace while they occupy our land and commit all kind of atrocities against our people? We are to be blamed for not speaking directly to the colonizing zionists while they demolish our homes and stealing our land? What about me, Sami, who was driven from his home and a Russian jew occupied his land?
Is it the prince who wrote the article or the zionists are speaking through his mouth?
How come we shall surrender for the zionists under the threat of their Nuclear Weapon and allow them to trade with our money of the oil? No wonder the new wave of the zionists speaking of the Arab money to achieve a “peace” settlement…. settlement? Settlements are breeding like rats in and on our land ….
and finally the poor zionists are really “peaceful” is we just speak to them heart 2 heart….
Shall we call it the stage of “heart 2 heart” toward peace???? Oh!! My heart is aching !!!
Sami, the bedouin (or the badone) whatever !!!
So whats your solution?
ONE DEMOCRATIC SECULAR STATE in which I can live and move freely with my brothers, the jews but NOT the zionists who want it a “pure” jewish State !!!
This is the only human and durable solution !!!
No tricks, no “heart 2 heart” stage, no more denial for the Palestinians and jumping over us to the arab oil and money !!!
And how do you go about creating this?
Furthermore, other arab states cannot be left out of a solution as the situation is of their making as well. For example, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt, Syria and Iraq have all fought with Israel at some point to the Palestianians detriment. Morever, many of these governments actively support forces in the Palestinian territories that work against peace and advancement and the one state solution (or the two state solution for that matter). If the Palestinian nightmare were to end, these goverments worry that their people may wake up and smell the rotting roses of the establishment.
On the same note, America and Britain need to be involved as well. They have contributed to the conflict in similar ways except in the other direction. If the conflict ends, they would not have a strong reason for meddling in Middle Eastern affairs.
America and Britain’s crimes in the Middle East are endless. Iraq is a perfect but not a final example of the amount of evil that these countries are capable of to protect their own interests without ever being held accountable for what they cause. A free Palestinian state is not in their interests, so they will fight hard to prevent this from happening. Since when did the American government serve us or consider our rights?
Also in this article, the crown Prince got it wrong. Arabs are doing most of the talking. It’s the Israelis that need to listen and react. He must have written this to impress someone in the White House.
The Britain? Hahahaha you made me laugh !! The Britains are the worst to interfere, they are the ones who created and backed the zionist entity starting from Lieutenant Colonel George Gawler to the Balfour Promise and all the commissioners up to the recent commissioner of the Quartet Mr. Tonny !!!
The Americans? They are already involved in their new vision of “peace through security” of creating a “bloody police units” to facilitate creating peace to the “chosen people” on their “promised land”… and the police this time is a Palestine one led by Mr. Dayton !!! Read the article that appeared in Yediot Ahronot (Mosaf Leshivoua’) the Hebrew edition on 24/07/09 to see what are they preparing to !!! They are trying to repeat the South Lebanon Army but in a new brand version
The Areicans and the Britains are envolved from the very beginning and all what they do is to serve the zionists and protect the lurching zionist project !!!
Sami, the bedouin.
Sami/Samah,
Did you two even read my post? None of the nations that I mentioned, be they western or arab have an interest in resolving the conflict and if a solution was reached only between the two parties in question it would inevitably be sabotaged. In case you have not noticed, this is already happening as the external players to the conflict always seem to offer solutions that no one wants to accept or that are never acted upon.
America, Britain, Jordan, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, and Eqypt need to be a part of the plan because they are responsible for helping to clean up the mess they helped make. Also, the aforementioned nations are not going to allow the situation to progress if their voices are not included and their interests our not considered. Its called compromise and its the only way to solve problems in an imperfect world without war.
How so? As I recall, Israel is still under a boycott.
Yea, yea, and all the Arab nations do is seek to drive the Jews into the sea and create a new Arab nation. We’ve been down this road before on your blood libel post and you deleted my comments and some of yours. Should we disregard the views of all arab nations because they have supported Palestinian violence since the beggining of the conflict? Or are they allowed to participate in any peace negotiations because they are guarenteed to support your side?
Everyone who had a hand in the conflict must have a role in the solution, whether they are for you or against you. The trick is making a plan that forces these externals powers to own up to their actions while making sure their worries are mitigated. Any thoughts?
Though the British Empire was toiling for over a century to establish a jewish state in Palestine, it took them only thirty years to pave the way to the zionist emtity since the Balfour Diclaration of the “peaceful’ British government !!!
The British Government is the first responsible for the on-going Palestinian Catastrophy (Nakba)
The Balfour Diclaration
This site and thousands of other blogs by Arabs and Palestinians aren’t boycotting. The willingness to have dialogue is there, you just don’t want to listen. That is the fault of the Israelis, not the Palestinians.
Mr. Big,
The problem is that they (The West in general) have never addressed the crisis the right way. They have been presenting solutions, peace plans, declarations, holding conferences just to “manage the crisis” but not to find a real solution for it !! The zionist project is a west pland from the very beginning, and they have been backing it and nurturing it even before it was established…. Look at what happened in the HOLOCAUST of Gaza; at the time the zionists were shilling the civilians with all banned weapons America was shipping a huge load of the most fatal and updated weapons to the zionists…. and at the same time, blocking the borders (and still, with the help of “your” Egyptian friends from the food to reach to our children …
How can I believe you and your American friends… I believe in the people who raised their massive voices against the Holocaust of Gaza and against plotting the war against Iraq and Afghanistan !!! Why should I believe the zionist-controlled governments?
We need a human solution that save our blood but not a tricky way to “manage the crisis” waiting for the next Zionist massacre after what they did in Lebanon and Gaza !!!
Should I believe another trick?
Sami, the bedouin
Refreshing post. We are finally talking about conflict resolution.
Sami,
I hope you are aware that on the other side (the Zionist or Israeli side), there are people who think likewise of the Palestinians. These hardliners think that the Palestinians are just trying to take over Israel piece by piece, asking for a state within 1967 borders, and then they’ll ask for more. The hardliners think that the Palestinians just want to kick all the Jews out. You think every Western involvement in the Middle East, either for good or for bad, is controlled by the Zionists(you probably think the White Paper was a Zionist plan as well). Their perception of the Palestinians is exactly a mirror of your perception of the Zionists.
There is hardly any communication between Israelis and Arabs. Israel probably has the lowest share of trade and visitors from its neighbors than any other country in the world. There are some programs that foster ties and communication between Israelis and Palestinians, but some of them are under attack, such as the youth orchestra from Jenin.
You ask for one secular democratic state, yet you blame everything on secular democratic states (or have they all been hijacked by Zionists?).
Don’t make the mistake all the Palestinian suicide bombers made by abandoning pragmatism and LIFE for ideology. You think everybody is full of bad intentions. That’s why there is a peace process, to root out those with bad intentions so the rest can come to a compromise and try to make the best of everybody’s expectations.
Michael W. (of no last name fame)
And there are plenty of blogs by Israelis that are open to dialogue – you probably just don’t visit them because you do not like what they have to say. What proof do you have that Israelis are the only ones who do not want to listen? Palesitinians like Sami do there fair share of not listening when they dismiss everything as a zionist conspiracy or zionist propoganda Furthermore, these are only blogs, not nations or social organizations. Thay are a good start, but the solution will require the partcipation of governments and leaders as well. If there is still an official boycott that is followed by most of the Arab world, I cannot accept your baseless theory that only Israelis are responsible for the lack of communication. Blogs are not a substitute for official political communication, and it still seems that a higher proportion of Arabs than Israelis do not want to negotiate.
No one has, tell me something that I have not alluded to in previous posts.
And you wonder why you have no credibility. Everything is all about a zionist conspiracy – now you can absolve your side of any responsibility.
Moreover, why should the West believe terror-supported governments? I’m seeing a lot of finger pointing from you but not any plan. I aksed you before how you could go about achieving your goal and you just responded by raging against Britain. Lets continue that discussion shall we?
I found this foum because I thought people would be coming up with plans and would skip the blame game toddler act. Some of the commenters stick to the purpose while others do not. So far though, the only author here I have seen with a plan is Nissim ( I have not gone through all the archives here yet, so this may change). I don’t necesarily agree with his idea in its entirety but at least hes put thought into devising a solution. I look foward to seeing more in time.
Stop whining and get to the point. The boycott is mostly commercial. Israelis aren’t interested in what we have to say no matter how many times we repeat ourselves. Stop complaining that we don’t listen when we’re here and talking directly towards your lot only to face your bigotry and intolerance.
It’s easy to come up with a plan when your family and friends aren’t being oppressed to the bone and killed in a weekly massacre. The reason you agree with him is because you trust in the right wing Israeli government, another reason you agree is because all you want to hear is your own ideas repeated. You don’t understand what it feels like to live and breathe violence, blood and bombs, where there is no future because arrogant people like you and Nissim, all you want is for your own benefits to be served at the expense of human lives of people who don’t share your ethnicity, religion or culture. Great “plan” you got there guys.
Mr. Big,
First, the Israelis are not at all willing to talk to the Arabs nor to the Palestinians.
1. Since the Arab Initiative was launched in 2002, the zionist entity shunned it and Sharon mocked it instead.
2. The zionist entity is not willing at all to see a Palestinian partner in peace. The Palestinians are irrelevant for them, once it was Arafat irrelevant because he was “terrorist” and again Abbas because he is “weak” for them.
3. They were all the time just faking peace to silence the arabs and steak more land and occupy the rest of the land to fill it with settlers preparing for the next Bosnia… just look of what Sharon (foreign minister at at time) when the whole world was talking of peace in 1998:
And also now… What the hell the Zionists want? Are they faking an umbrella of “peace” to do their tricky blot aginst Iran… or to complete there zionist project? or what the hell else?
Second,.. Do you think I am still a kid to tell me of the zionist Blog sites? Shall I name to you tens of them? I was there and I tell you I was literally lynched and tortures !! Shall I name to you tens who were kicked out of there just because they speak their hearts like me? Even leftist Israelis are dragged out of there sweet Big !!!!
The zionists are NOT willing to speak to us, nor hear our side, all what they want is to drag us to fake with them a “peace” talk to tell the world that they have arab members in their sites… shall I name to you the Arab collaborators there?
Dont mock my little crazy head Mr. Big !!!
William Shakespear.
Sami, the bedouin.
Big, your comments reflect that you’ve been raised on a Jewish-Israeli narrative. Which is fine, I was raised on it too. But Palestinians and Arabs were raised on a different narrative, of Jews coming from Europe to steal their land, kick them out of their homes and maintain an occupation since 1967. Pretty much what Sami keeps saying.
Anyone who clings to their narrative without trying to understand the other side is making it harder to make any progress. It’s natural for every side to see themselves as the one trying harder, making the effort. I understand Arabs who feels that Israel has wronged the Palestinians and there’s no reason for them to do the talking.
I think on both sides, there are people who are willing to engage and talk. This site, for example, is getting attacked for letting Israelis write on it. The problem is that the people who are willing to stop feeling like victims, start listening to the other side and trying to understand it are very few.
And I wonder again, will justice be ever brought to the ones who deserve it?
What are the consequences of all disillusioning acts in the Middle East?
None so far, Sami the Beduin has said it already:
Things are discussed but not brought about.
I could say the same about you. Your only evidence for arab contact was blogs. Really? you think that because a couple people are expressing themselves on the net that Arabs are “opening contact” with Israel. Get over yourself. Your doing nothing except whining about how terrible your situation and then claiming that the onus is on others to fix it for you. You should stop claiming that Westerners don’t listen when you are just as intolerant of other people’s views. Look at your behavior now, calling me a bigot because I don’t buy your bullshit claims. What your doing now is plain hostile and if this is what you count as contact its no wonder your getting nowhere.
Do you honestly expect that people will treat your word as divine everytime you open your mouth? Grow up and deal with the fact that you may actually have to convince others before they accept your beliefs.
Its even easier to make excuses. Somehow, knowing the history of the region I have hard time buying your hardship theory. Israel had to first for its survival and was outnumbered 12:1 in the war of 1948. Israel was forced into war at least 3 more times before the turn of the century plus countless diorganized acts of violence and yet they survived. They organized their society to meet any obstacle they had and now they have a successful knowledge economy. What they achieved they did so despite the efforts of the Arab nations and the Soviet Union. To think that you using hardship as an excuse is laughable. African Americans suffered massive discrimination that is clearing up thanks to their efforts – but never was it an easy struggle. Hardship is what motivates people to take action.
I would also say the reason you trust in Sami and his like is because you trust in arab-nationalism and anything that ideology espouses.
And the Palestinians rejected the camp david 2000 plan. We are back where we started.
Hamas and Fatah do plenty of beating around the bush when it comes to peace. Hamas has made numerous cease fires that give the impression of peace but their goal remains as stated by article 13 of their charter:
Sounds like the Arab equivalent of what you were describing.
You do not seem willing to speak to them. Arab organizations have plenty of poster jews to advocate for their cause too. You fail to see how both sides are operating in a similar manner.
If thats true then my comments and everyone elses are a waste of time, as it will go nowhere due to worldview differences. Much props to the site administrator for putting up with this and letting me comment despite any disagreements.
Elizabeth,
I see you are aware of the competing narratives, but you got the Arab one wrong.
Sami talks about his lost home in Ashdod which was lost in ’48. The Palestinian ‘Right of Return’ is the biggest issue.
Michael,
My comment referred to the narrative of “forced exile” as well (“Jews coming from Europe to steal their land, kick them out of their homes and maintain an occupation since 1967.” [emphasis added]). The idea of dispossession is the main problem, I agree.
Generations of Palestinian leadership keep nurturing the belief that the refugees will return to their homes and isn’t doing serious efforts to improve the lives of the residents of the refugee camps.
As you know, the “right of return” is out of the question for the vast majority of Israelis. Therefore, it is the thorniest issue.
W, says:
but I say: “Zkhut Hashiva” (the right for retur for the jews)… is the deep core of the whole problem !!!
In the zionist discourse: every jew, anywhere in the world, not only has the right to return…. but he is encouraged, backed, financed to come and settle in the “promised land”… sometimes, even the zionists deter the immigration of the jews t the West and bring them in transit flight trips to prevent them from going to Europe and the State like what they did with the Russian immigrant early in the 1990s !!!
Why? Why (in heaven this time) every jew (from the coal-black Ethiopian to the snow-white Russian) not only have the right, but is encouraged, backed, financed, brainwashed and sometimes forced to come and take my home and farm while me, the native is tortured and prevented to travel just a few kilometers to go back to my very-dad home?
Not only that, but also the racist “laws” that deprive me from getting married from my cousin inside Palestine, and if she married me she is to be kicked out too !!!
What a racist zionist entity !!!
Sami, the bedouin.
Essentially, we have a choice here; we can look to the past, or we can look to the future.
If we look to the past, we become mired in an endless cycle of recriminations. There has been injustice perpetrated on both sides of this conflict. Fine, but where does that leave us? Nowhere really. Everyone has a good point, and each of us feels good about getting things off our chest. But when it comes to peace, we will get nowhere fast sticking to our guns, and burying our heads in the past.
I think that what the Prince is saying is that we walk away from the past, and look to the future. He wisely foresees the possibility of a bright future, a future in which “This crisis is not a zero-sum game,” in which everyone, the parties themselves and the entire Middle East, can win.
He sees a “peace-dividend” in which the oil wealth can be combined with education and economic activity to allow each person a place at the table, a stake in his or her future.
He says that you can’t “…simply switch peace on like a light bulb,” but you can work toward peace by creating realities on the ground which speak louder than words.
And he readily admits that just as some of us dream of peace, there are others who “…want victims to stay victims so they can be manipulated as proxies in a wider game for power.”
He courageously says that “…resolving the dilemma of justice for Palestine without injustice to Israel…is the meta-issue that defines and distorts the self-image of Arabs and diverts too much of our energies away from the political and economic development the region needs.”
Looking to the future, he looks for unity to displace enmity, “What can unite them tomorrow is potentially bigger than what divides them today.” And then he continues, “We must stop the small-minded waiting game in which each side refuses to budge until the other side makes the first move. We’ve got to be bigger than that.”
And toward the end he points to the real solution, “Once we achieve peace, trade will follow…By putting real money into people’s hands and giving them real power over their lives, trade will help ensure the durability of peace…When stability pays, conflict becomes too costly.”
There is a lot here folks. If it came from me, it would be one thing. But it’s coming from the Crown Prince of Bahrain. I admire what he has to say. It resonates with me. Why? Because we both recognize that there is really only one way to peace. And that way does not bother much with the past.
That way is about: empowering people with a new and more sensible ideological framework, investing in them to create jobs, jobs which grow the economy, jobs which protect the environment, and jobs which help to curb the hold of extremist thinking, using ideology and investment to sell people on a vision of hope, a vision of peace, prosperity, and freedom, sustaining the hope with public diplomacy, and fighting against the people who say no, but positioning the fight within a vision of hope, raising the fight on the ground to a higher moral plain by giving the fight a moral clarity of purpose. People will fight harder once then know what they’re fighting for. We are not fighting a “war against terror.” We are fighting a war to realize a vision of hope. We are not fighting to “protect the environment.” We are fighting, quite literally, for our lives.
I wish there were an easy way to solve this problem. But there isn’t. However, if we dare to follow the Prince’s advice, we will be the better for it, we will see peace, and we will find a better and nobler version of ourselves. It’s really up to us, you know.
Sami,
The reason the Zionists believe that every Jew reserves the right to move to Israel (with few exceptions) is that they believe they are the descendants of the of the indigenous inhabitants from the ancient Israelite/Judean kingdom. Some they that the Canaanites were there first, but they don’t exist anymore, and many in the modern secular academic field of the Hebrew Bible believe that the Israelites didn’t really come from Egypt or Ur(Iraq) but created their identity through the Hebrew Bible in Canaan. As you may know, Judaism is not a proselytizing religion so the idea that European Jews are converts (except when one converts for marital purposes). Legend has it that the Ethiopian Jews are the descendants of King David when he “knew” some African queen. I’m well aware that the Palestinian narrative contests all of this. Though it sort of becomes contradictory with the pan-Arab nationalism and the Islamist movement.
Judaism is a communal religion, compared to Christianity which is a creed religion. I believe Islam is a creed religion as well. Judaism as a religion is more like the ancient concept of religion as a national identity. Christianity and Islam came much later. They did have some have some aspects of communal religion, but there was so much competition for power in Europe and the MidEast that coreligionists fought each other and eventually split their religion(Protestants vs Catholics vs Orthodox, and Sunni vs Shiite vs Sufi). The Jews had no power in the common(A.D. or C.E.) era so they had no reason to fight each other.
W,
This is not the point at all. I am not talking of the jews nor Judaism. I dont care if they are 12 tribes or one…. I dont want to justify wither we, the Canaanites, or the jews were first here… I dont care if the chicken was before the egg !!!
I AM TALKING AT THE HUMAN LEVEL…Why should I (as a human, as a person) should be kicked out from my very-fathers home which we inhabited for thousands of years, and prevented from traveling back to my home from which I was kicked just 60 years ago….. while you are talking of jews (I dont know if they are jews or faking jews) are talking of 2000 years right? Are you HUMAN or ZIONIST?
I dont care who comes and dwell this land if not to steal my home and kick me out !!! I am not a racist to say it’s mine though it is my ancestors’ and the zionists have no right here…. you cant kick me out and prevent me from going back home and bring jews (if they are really jews anyway) and give them my home just because of an alleged history !! I cant trust my wife not to breed a jew, man! and you are talking of a “pure” race? funny !!
I am not racist, I accept all people to live on this land as long as they dont oppress me…. YOU are the racist who wants it a “pure” “jewish sate” and the hell with all he others !! How come cant you see that all of the zionist entity is based on racizm in every aspect of the “pure state”; in the government, in the army, in the “legal” system, in infra structure…. in everything…. just have a look at any and all the neighboring villages of the Arabs and the settlements to see the difference; how both are financed !! Why to go far, look in Tel-Aviv and compare it to Jaffa !!! Everything is racist dear. No wonder, they are the “chosen people” !!
How can you be human while you ask for a “pure” jewish state and oppressing all the other races !!! See how the racist zionist mentality works? Wake up dear !!
Sami, the bedouin.
Sami,
The simple answer is that you shouldn’t. But unfortunately, the predicament that you, and every Palestinian and Israeli are in was caused by actions made in the 1920′s-40′s. Are we(Israeli and Palestinian) responsible for our past leaders actions?
Instead of talking about which came first, we can have a discussion about history and scrutinize each other’s understanding of it. When we understand the mistakes of the past, we can build a better future. You can’t just ignore the consequences your and my people made. The Zionists made mistakes and the Palestinians (and other Arabs) made mistakes too.
You say that you don’t care if people come here and dwell peacefully, but that’s what the early Zionists did, and they were violently rejected by Palestinians. Compare the rate of growth of Arabs in Israel, their living standard, and civil and political rights, with the Jews in Arab countries under the same criteria. You may not hate Jews, but in many Arab countries, there is a long history of animosity and lack of rights for all. And that had an impact on the decisions made by Zionist and Arab leaders in 20′s thru 40′s and today.
Who here is talking about a “pure” race and state? It’s only you. You are again just projecting arguments onto the other side. Read the Israeli declaration of independence, it clearly states that equal rights and protection to all its citizens, 20% of whom are non-Jews. Of course Israel has not fully reached that goal, but it has done a better job to do so than any other country in the region and even more so than Western countries under the same circumstances.
Arabs from abroad can legally buy land in Israel, while any Palestinian who sells land to a Jew can be punished by death under PA laws.
Again, you are the only one who is talking about “pure” this and that.
Which country in the ME gave aid to Taiwan recently?
Where do E. African refugees flee to in the Middle East?
What citizenship gives the most rights to Arabs in the Middle East?
Nobody here is asking for a “pure” Jewish state. The Palestinians and some Arab countries on the other hand have asked and established purely Arab or Muslim states. Maybe when you understand that, you’ll understand why the Zionists couldn’t just let several Arab armies led by dictators take over.
Israeli Arabs do receive less funding from the state for infrastructure etc., but at least they get better care than in Arab countries. At least when they protest for funds, they aren’t massacred. At least they can criticize the government. At least they can take part of government. Things aren’t perfect, but at least Israel has a peaceful system to make it better and has done so.
Wake up dear, Palestinians in Arab countries are discriminated against more than Israeli Arabs.
I think that Michael makes some excellent points.
When Sami looks at Israel, he looks for flaws, and generalizes those flaws into untter distortions such as “racism” and the like.
But what is the alternative? Let’s say that Israel did not exist. Do we honestly expect that a Palestinian nation would emerge which would protect Palestinian rights any better than Arabs are protected in their own countries thoughout the Middle East?
It is true to say that Israeli Arabs have more rights than most Arabs thoughout the Middle East, and this despite all the imperfections that exist in Israeli society.
If anything, with the coming of peace, Israelis and Arabs could work together to create an even better model, one that forsees people working together, regardless of race or religion, to solve common problems, and to share in the rewards of a better future.
Forget history, if only for a moment. It will get you nowhere to dwell excessively in the past. The founding of most nations involved some injustice. Look at American Indians. Look at African Americans. Look at Aborigines. But people have had to find a way to move on. If you want justice, then find it, and build it. More often than not, you will find that justice does not come at the edge of a sword. Justice will come when you put the sword down, start making sense of your life, and dare to imagine new possibilities for how things could be. That is the challenge. Hate is easy. Finding common ground isn’t.
This is the voice of the Israeli government now and always !!!
The zionist entity doesnt want peace, they want to go ahead in judizing the whole of Palestine. They dont listen to no arab Initiative, no peace process nor want anybody to talk of peace!!!
Oh. yea! they want to talk of normalization specially with the Arab Gulf countries to make business and use the Arab money. but not to talk of peace !!!
Their mentality is “Eretz Yesrael” “Haam Hayihudi” “the promised land” and nothing else but the supernatural jewish people “the beloved son of God” !!!
They all the time wade new conditions to any peace plan to annihilate it and gain more time. They conditioned that we to recognize Israel and its right to exist, and in Oslo they got it. Now they creatively waded a new condition that all the Arabs have to recognize israel as a “jewish state” !!! Conditions, conditions and preconditions jut to deter any break though to peace !! They are not looking for peace , they (the zionists) are looking for full surrender of all the Arabs and more want us to give them our oil. This is their aim now !!!
For them, there is no Palestinian partner, No the “terrorist” Arafat nor the “weak” Abbs… they dont want peace at all… they are preparing to massacre us in a new Bosnia … They dont want to see nobody but their “jewish state” and “the chosen people”
They dont listen to the Americans nor “fear” them. they dont listen to the whole world bigging them for a “two states” solution, they actually dont see two states but only the “jewish” state of Israel …. they are blinded with their zionist mentality and all what they do is just deception and tricks !!!
Sami, the bedouin
This is the zionist mentality that wont stop until all the Arabs surrender. This is the racist state that I will never stop fighting until I live free with my jewish brothers or die standing !!!
And still some gullible think that the whole problem would be solved just if “we talked to them”? Wew have been talking to them since ages but they dont see but the “chosen people” and all the others are “goyim” who are not better than beasts !!!
I see them everyday “the chosen people of God”, everyday in my way to work passing the hell of their “security” blockades …. who needs security, the full armed “chosen” people rampaging the land killing us and burning our fields … or we, the defenseless, stateless, homeless, hopeless, horizonless Palestinians !!!
Oh, yea!! All what is needed is “to talk to the israelis”…
The hell, I dont want to talk. I will never normalize with the racists !!!
Sami, the bedouin.
Sami, you are a master at taking “non-starter” positions. Those are positions which go nowhere in the negotiation process. For example, you call Israel a “racist” country and leave it there. Wonderful, but where does that take us? Nowhere.
How about coming up with a solution that both sides can buy into? How about a discussion that both sides can contribute to?
If we each take the easy way out, by playing the blame game, we can’t really complain if nothing changes. Both sides will justify themselves, and nothing will change. How about breaking that mold? How about some creativity when it comes to peace? You obviously have the intellectual ability. How about risking some of your persona for the sake of peace?
For peace to happen we will all have to let go of some of who we are, and what we believe, in favor of a better version of ourselves, and something we can believe in even more, like peace. Can you personally come to terms with that kind of tradeoff?
Nissim,
The zionists are masters in
isnt this wat Mr. Shamir said once:
and that was a prophesy… why prophesy? It is a systematic policy of the consecutive Israeli governments, and he knew that !!
Since the early 1970s we are splitting our throat svreaming for the “two states” solution and what we got now? We recognized teh right of israel to exist, what we got now? more denaial for thus, the natives, and more extremist zionist government. Shall I name the Israeli “שישיה” to see for yourself that the Zionists themselves are the masters positions which go nowhere in the negotiation process
This is another tricky way of faking peace talks while aiming at NORMALIZATION!!!
Shall we call it the stage of “heart 2 heart” talks toward full normalization with full zionist occupation ???
Sami, the bedouin
The Palestinian people have not as yet embraced the idea of a “two states” solution. There is support for this idea in some circles, but significant opposition in others.
Let’s take a case in point. In the year 2000, President Clinton and Prime Minister Ehud Barack offered the following peace deal to President Arafat:
1. A Palestinian state with East Jerusalem as its captital.
2. All of Gaza.
3. About 94% to 96% of the West Bank. Israel would keep 4% to 6% of the land in exhange for land swaps of Israeli land.
4. An evacuation of almost all the settlments, except for several major settlements.
5. Palestinian control of the Muslim holy sites, including the Temple Mount, but Israel would control the Wailing Wall.
6. No right of return, but some Palestinians would be allowed to return based on humanitarian considerations. Israel would make those decisions. However, 30 billion dollars would be paid as resitution to the refugees.
President Arafat rejected the offer, without making any counter-offer, and launched the second Intifada. This offer may not have met all of Palestinian demands, but it was made in good faith, and would have been considered more seriously if the Palestinians were, as you say, “…splitting our throats screaming for the “two states” solution. The fact that it was a good and honorable offer was evidenced by the fact that later, at Taba, President Arafat decided to go ahead with the plan, but by then the second Intifada was in full swing, and it was too late.
ניסים
from the very beginning, in the early 1970s it was clear that the Israelis are aiming at occupying the whole of Palestine. Alon More and Sharon at that time launched the “seven stars plan” which aimed at deleting the “green line” and annexing the whole West Bank. This plan included planting 7 major settlements at the “green line” (one of them is “Kochav-Yair” settlement where the current “Defense” Minster Barak lives now !!!
So, Barak was negotiating Arafat while he himself was (a settler) living in the West Bank !!! Plus, the notorious Camp-David-2 is not a peace plan it was cutting off the West Bank from the middle into two parts and nothing was giving in Jerusalem but the right to pray and to manage the religious affairs on the Aqsa Mosque, while planting the settlers everywhere in the (Large, as you say) settlements including the heart of Hebron. In addition, the zionist occupation army was to stay in the heart of the West Bank at two huge camps and also a full control of the Jordan Valley !! Is this a state or a Swiss piece of cheese? I dont like Swiss cheese anyway.
There was nothing offered to Arafat in Camp-David but a full surrender and on the top of that, he was threatened to be assassinated, which they did later by poison. There was nothing offered but a restricted autonomy with full presence of the I”D”F ready to suppress and kill !!
I dont buy the zionist lies Mr Dahhan they are so tricky in convincing the world that they are the victim and they offered everything possible !! can I take your lungs and let you live? your lungs are just 3% of your body, its nothing as you still have 97% of your full but lungless body !!! Plus, if you please, i want to plant a small piece in your head to be sure that you wont think of killing me !! Is this “peace” or pieces of peace !!
Sami, the bedouin.
Sami, I don’t know what you have against Swiss cheese.
But keeping that aside, I am not saying that the offer made in the year 2000 had to be swallowed whole, without negotiation, and without changes. I am saying that the offer was made. If Israel’s intention was as negative as you maintain, why make the offer in the first place? And the fact is that President Arafat himself became more predisposed to the offer later on in the Taba negotiations, but as I said, by then it was too late.
I may be somewhat naive, but not entirely so. The parties to this conflict will cut a deal only if they both perceive that it satisfies their needs in some substantial way. A final deal will taste bitter to both sides, but that is the point. It will be fair because it will not give each side everything they want, but will give enough to make the deal worthwhile.
I, for one, don’t think we should jump to the peace table. At present, there is too much bad blood for decent negotiations. However, I do think that Israelis and Palestinians could take immediate steps to create new realities on the ground, realities which speak louder than words, and which point to the possibility of peace. The people on both sides have been conditioned to distrust one another, as your posts make clear. It is time to build the trust, and we can do that by selling one another on a Vision of Hope.
For example, I understand that some of the checkpoints have been taken down. I don’t have the details, but I gather that just this tiny step has led to a burgeoning economy in the West Bank. I couldn’t believe that, but it seems it’s true. Well, that’s the kind of thing that has to happen, right here, and right now, to begin conditioning people on both sides for the possibility of peace.
I like how you write my name in Hebrew. You probably know what my name means, “miracles.” It will literally take a whole series of small miracles to break this deadlock we find ourselves in. But I believe in miracles.
You would probably say that you are the way you are because of Israel’s policies. Israel would probably say that it instituted its policies in response to existential threats to its security. That is what you call an impass. How do we move forward? We depend less on our leaders and more on ourselves. We make things happen that capture the imagination. We go for broke, and fight for peace, as hard as we fight for war.
I have a feeling that something momentous will soon happen in the Middle East. It is up to us, even as we disagree, to find a way to move the process forward in a direction that makes sense, and that points to the possibility of a better day for all concerned. Considering the alternative, we have no choice but to try.