But keeping that aside, I am not saying that the offer made in the year 2000 had to be swallowed whole, without negotiation, and without changes. I am saying that the offer was made. If Israel’s intention was as negative as you maintain, why make the offer in the first place? And the fact is that President Arafat himself became more predisposed to the offer later on in the Taba negotiations, but as I said, by then it was too late.

I may be somewhat naive, but not entirely so. The parties to this conflict will cut a deal only if they both perceive that it satisfies their needs in some substantial way. A final deal will taste bitter to both sides, but that is the point. It will be fair because it will not give each side everything they want, but will give enough to make the deal worthwhile.

I, for one, don’t think we should jump to the peace table. At present, there is too much bad blood for decent negotiations. However, I do think that Israelis and Palestinians could take immediate steps to create new realities on the ground, realities which speak louder than words, and which point to the possibility of peace. The people on both sides have been conditioned to distrust one another, as your posts make clear. It is time to build the trust, and we can do that by selling one another on a Vision of Hope.

For example, I understand that some of the checkpoints have been taken down. I don’t have the details, but I gather that just this tiny step has led to a burgeoning economy in the West Bank. I couldn’t believe that, but it seems it’s true. Well, that’s the kind of thing that has to happen, right here, and right now, to begin conditioning people on both sides for the possibility of peace.

I like how you write my name in Hebrew. You probably know what my name means, “miracles.” It will literally take a whole series of small miracles to break this deadlock we find ourselves in. But I believe in miracles.

You would probably say that you are the way you are because of Israel’s policies. Israel would probably say that it instituted its policies in response to existential threats to its security. That is what you call an impass. How do we move forward? We depend less on our leaders and more on ourselves. We make things happen that capture the imagination. We go for broke, and fight for peace, as hard as we fight for war.

I have a feeling that something momentous will soon happen in the Middle East. It is up to us, even as we disagree, to find a way to move the process forward in a direction that makes sense, and that points to the possibility of a better day for all concerned. Considering the alternative, we have no choice but to try.

from the very beginning, in the early 1970s it was clear that the Israelis are aiming at occupying the whole of Palestine. Alon More and Sharon at that time launched the “seven stars plan” which aimed at deleting the “green line” and annexing the whole West Bank. This plan included planting 7 major settlements at the “green line” (one of them is “Kochav-Yair” settlement where the current “Defense” Minster Barak lives now !!!

So, Barak was negotiating Arafat while he himself was (a settler) living in the West Bank !!! Plus, the notorious Camp-David-2 is not a peace plan it was cutting off the West Bank from the middle into two parts and nothing was giving in Jerusalem but the right to pray and to manage the religious affairs on the Aqsa Mosque, while planting the settlers everywhere in the (Large, as you say) settlements including the heart of Hebron. In addition, the zionist occupation army was to stay in the heart of the West Bank at two huge camps and also a full control of the Jordan Valley !! Is this a state or a Swiss piece of cheese? I dont like Swiss cheese anyway.

There was nothing offered to Arafat in Camp-David but a full surrender and on the top of that, he was threatened to be assassinated, which they did later by poison. There was nothing offered but a restricted autonomy with full presence of the I”D”F ready to suppress and kill !!

I dont buy the zionist lies Mr Dahhan they are so tricky in convincing the world that they are the victim and they offered everything possible !! can I take your lungs and let you live? your lungs are just 3% of your body, its nothing as you still have 97% of your full but lungless body !!! Plus, if you please, i want to plant a small piece in your head to be sure that you wont think of killing me !! Is this “peace” or pieces of peace !!

Sami, the bedouin.

Since the early 1970s we are splitting our throat screaming for the “two states” solution and what we got now?

The Palestinian people have not as yet embraced the idea of a “two states” solution. There is support for this idea in some circles, but significant opposition in others.

Let’s take a case in point. In the year 2000, President Clinton and Prime Minister Ehud Barack offered the following peace deal to President Arafat:

1. A Palestinian state with East Jerusalem as its captital.

2. All of Gaza.

3. About 94% to 96% of the West Bank. Israel would keep 4% to 6% of the land in exhange for land swaps of Israeli land.

4. An evacuation of almost all the settlments, except for several major settlements.

5. Palestinian control of the Muslim holy sites, including the Temple Mount, but Israel would control the Wailing Wall.

6. No right of return, but some Palestinians would be allowed to return based on humanitarian considerations. Israel would make those decisions. However, 30 billion dollars would be paid as resitution to the refugees.

President Arafat rejected the offer, without making any counter-offer, and launched the second Intifada. This offer may not have met all of Palestinian demands, but it was made in good faith, and would have been considered more seriously if the Palestinians were, as you say, “…splitting our throats screaming for the “two states” solution. The fact that it was a good and honorable offer was evidenced by the fact that later, at Taba, President Arafat decided to go ahead with the plan, but by then the second Intifada was in full swing, and it was too late.

The zionists are masters in

positions which go nowhere in the negotiation process

isnt this wat Mr. Shamir said once:

“I am ready to negotiate for decades with the Palestinians without fiving them nothing.”

and that was a prophesy… why prophesy? It is a systematic policy of the consecutive Israeli governments, and he knew that !!

Since the early 1970s we are splitting our throat svreaming for the “two states” solution and what we got now? We recognized teh right of israel to exist, what we got now? more denaial for thus, the natives, and more extremist zionist government. Shall I name the Israeli “שישיה” to see for yourself that the Zionists themselves are the masters positions which go nowhere in the negotiation process

This is another tricky way of faking peace talks while aiming at NORMALIZATION!!!

Shall we call it the stage of “heart 2 heart” talks toward full normalization with full zionist occupation ???

Sami, the bedouin

How about coming up with a solution that both sides can buy into? How about a discussion that both sides can contribute to?

If we each take the easy way out, by playing the blame game, we can’t really complain if nothing changes. Both sides will justify themselves, and nothing will change. How about breaking that mold? How about some creativity when it comes to peace? You obviously have the intellectual ability. How about risking some of your persona for the sake of peace?

For peace to happen we will all have to let go of some of who we are, and what we believe, in favor of a better version of ourselves, and something we can believe in even more, like peace. Can you personally come to terms with that kind of tradeoff?

This is the zionist mentality that wont stop until all the Arabs surrender. This is the racist state that I will never stop fighting until I live free with my jewish brothers or die standing !!!

And still some gullible think that the whole problem would be solved just if “we talked to them”? Wew have been talking to them since ages but they dont see but the “chosen people” and all the others are “goyim” who are not better than beasts !!!

I see them everyday “the chosen people of God”, everyday in my way to work passing the hell of their “security” blockades …. who needs security, the full armed “chosen” people rampaging the land killing us and burning our fields … or we, the defenseless, stateless, homeless, hopeless, horizonless Palestinians !!!

Oh, yea!! All what is needed is “to talk to the israelis”…

The hell, I dont want to talk. I will never normalize with the racists !!!

Sami, the bedouin.

This is the voice of the Israeli government now and always !!!

The zionist entity doesnt want peace, they want to go ahead in judizing the whole of Palestine. They dont listen to no arab Initiative, no peace process nor want anybody to talk of peace!!!

Oh. yea! they want to talk of normalization specially with the Arab Gulf countries to make business and use the Arab money. but not to talk of peace !!!

Their mentality is “Eretz Yesrael” “Haam Hayihudi” “the promised land” and nothing else but the supernatural jewish people “the beloved son of God” !!!

They all the time wade new conditions to any peace plan to annihilate it and gain more time. They conditioned that we to recognize Israel and its right to exist, and in Oslo they got it. Now they creatively waded a new condition that all the Arabs have to recognize israel as a “jewish state” !!! Conditions, conditions and preconditions jut to deter any break though to peace !! They are not looking for peace , they (the zionists) are looking for full surrender of all the Arabs and more want us to give them our oil. This is their aim now !!!

For them, there is no Palestinian partner, No the “terrorist” Arafat nor the “weak” Abbs… they dont want peace at all… they are preparing to massacre us in a new Bosnia … They dont want to see nobody but their “jewish state” and “the chosen people”

They dont listen to the Americans nor “fear” them. they dont listen to the whole world bigging them for a “two states” solution, they actually dont see two states but only the “jewish” state of Israel …. they are blinded with their zionist mentality and all what they do is just deception and tricks !!!

Sami, the bedouin

When Sami looks at Israel, he looks for flaws, and generalizes those flaws into untter distortions such as “racism” and the like.

But what is the alternative? Let’s say that Israel did not exist. Do we honestly expect that a Palestinian nation would emerge which would protect Palestinian rights any better than Arabs are protected in their own countries thoughout the Middle East?

It is true to say that Israeli Arabs have more rights than most Arabs thoughout the Middle East, and this despite all the imperfections that exist in Israeli society.

If anything, with the coming of peace, Israelis and Arabs could work together to create an even better model, one that forsees people working together, regardless of race or religion, to solve common problems, and to share in the rewards of a better future.

Forget history, if only for a moment. It will get you nowhere to dwell excessively in the past. The founding of most nations involved some injustice. Look at American Indians. Look at African Americans. Look at Aborigines. But people have had to find a way to move on. If you want justice, then find it, and build it. More often than not, you will find that justice does not come at the edge of a sword. Justice will come when you put the sword down, start making sense of your life, and dare to imagine new possibilities for how things could be. That is the challenge. Hate is easy. Finding common ground isn’t.

Why should I (as a human, as a person) should be kicked out from my very-fathers home which we inhabited for thousands of years, and prevented from traveling back to my home from which I was kicked just 60 years ago…..

The simple answer is that you shouldn’t. But unfortunately, the predicament that you, and every Palestinian and Israeli are in was caused by actions made in the 1920′s-40′s. Are we(Israeli and Palestinian) responsible for our past leaders actions?

Instead of talking about which came first, we can have a discussion about history and scrutinize each other’s understanding of it. When we understand the mistakes of the past, we can build a better future. You can’t just ignore the consequences your and my people made. The Zionists made mistakes and the Palestinians (and other Arabs) made mistakes too.

You say that you don’t care if people come here and dwell peacefully, but that’s what the early Zionists did, and they were violently rejected by Palestinians. Compare the rate of growth of Arabs in Israel, their living standard, and civil and political rights, with the Jews in Arab countries under the same criteria. You may not hate Jews, but in many Arab countries, there is a long history of animosity and lack of rights for all. And that had an impact on the decisions made by Zionist and Arab leaders in 20′s thru 40′s and today.

Who here is talking about a “pure” race and state? It’s only you. You are again just projecting arguments onto the other side. Read the Israeli declaration of independence, it clearly states that equal rights and protection to all its citizens, 20% of whom are non-Jews. Of course Israel has not fully reached that goal, but it has done a better job to do so than any other country in the region and even more so than Western countries under the same circumstances.

Arabs from abroad can legally buy land in Israel, while any Palestinian who sells land to a Jew can be punished by death under PA laws.

Again, you are the only one who is talking about “pure” this and that.

Which country in the ME gave aid to Taiwan recently?

Where do E. African refugees flee to in the Middle East?

What citizenship gives the most rights to Arabs in the Middle East?

Nobody here is asking for a “pure” Jewish state. The Palestinians and some Arab countries on the other hand have asked and established purely Arab or Muslim states. Maybe when you understand that, you’ll understand why the Zionists couldn’t just let several Arab armies led by dictators take over.

Israeli Arabs do receive less funding from the state for infrastructure etc., but at least they get better care than in Arab countries. At least when they protest for funds, they aren’t massacred. At least they can criticize the government. At least they can take part of government. Things aren’t perfect, but at least Israel has a peaceful system to make it better and has done so.

Wake up dear, Palestinians in Arab countries are discriminated against more than Israeli Arabs.

This is not the point at all. I am not talking of the jews nor Judaism. I dont care if they are 12 tribes or one…. I dont want to justify wither we, the Canaanites, or the jews were first here… I dont care if the chicken was before the egg !!!

I AM TALKING AT THE HUMAN LEVEL…Why should I (as a human, as a person) should be kicked out from my very-fathers home which we inhabited for thousands of years, and prevented from traveling back to my home from which I was kicked just 60 years ago….. while you are talking of jews (I dont know if they are jews or faking jews) are talking of 2000 years right? Are you HUMAN or ZIONIST?

I dont care who comes and dwell this land if not to steal my home and kick me out !!! I am not a racist to say it’s mine though it is my ancestors’ and the zionists have no right here…. you cant kick me out and prevent me from going back home and bring jews (if they are really jews anyway) and give them my home just because of an alleged history !! I cant trust my wife not to breed a jew, man! and you are talking of a “pure” race? funny !!

I am not racist, I accept all people to live on this land as long as they dont oppress me…. YOU are the racist who wants it a “pure” “jewish sate” and the hell with all he others !! How come cant you see that all of the zionist entity is based on racizm in every aspect of the “pure state”; in the government, in the army, in the “legal” system, in infra structure…. in everything…. just have a look at any and all the neighboring villages of the Arabs and the settlements to see the difference; how both are financed !! Why to go far, look in Tel-Aviv and compare it to Jaffa !!! Everything is racist dear. No wonder, they are the “chosen people” !!

How can you be human while you ask for a “pure” jewish state and oppressing all the other races !!! See how the racist zionist mentality works? Wake up dear !!

Sami, the bedouin.