Urgent help for a Potential Apostate (Part One)
Tonight I was surfing the net, found something interesting (for me but may not for you) and I thought it would be great if you help some skeptics to figure themselves out.
Someone who has called himself “Potential Apostate” wants an urgent help. I believe there are many “Potential Apostates” out there that Muslims should help them to find the right path. So jump in:
Below are the questions that disturbed me and no one offered a sensible answer. Even Islamic sites filtered my questions and emailing them turned futile. Through your site, I would like to have answers of the following questions from Muslims, as they have closed all doors for debate and discussions. Face to face conversation is like a suicide. Please allow me to ask these questions from the medium of your site. All Muslims are welcome to leave comments below or email me at nothing.buttruth@yahoo.com. Here’re my questions to Muslims:
Q1. Why would God want his creation to not ask, questions, criticize, debate or experiment ideas that he gave us? This can only happen to cover up lies. This is the reason why we can’t question clergy about things like What’s the proof that God exists and what’s the proof that Muhammad is the prophet of God. Seems like a great deceit to make sheep out of humans. Only truth can stand the fierce scrutiny and criticism and still stand tall.
Q2. Why would God make religions appear only in poor, illiterate and desert areas? 1400 years ago, Greek were more scientific and progressive, why religion didn’t appear there instead? I tell you why. Because Muhammad could have only mislead the gullible, ignorant and poor people. In fact, his first followers were actually poor. Rich and literate people thought of him as crazy. Even today, if I go to a illiterate village and proclaim myself as a big saint, millions will follow me. That’s how easy it is to make stupid people more stupid. That’s why you don’t see new religions forming in Europe.
Q3. If there is Science in Islam, why didn’t God tell us how old the Universe is, how old Earth is, whether it is round or flat, how long it took for it to cool down, how Life began, how Life evolved? It seems that Allah knew only things that were already known at that time by the Greek and ancient scientists and philosophers. If I start a religion today, I wouldn’t forget to add an ayat, “And thou will not spread mischief in the earth which took us fifteen billion years to make. There are altogether eleven dimensions, yet the unbelievers deny our signs.” Ridiculous!
Q4. Why Abrahamic religions, specifically Islam is exclusivist? How can a truth be confined to some people and not others (people living in other places, other times etc. can’t be all wrong). Buddhism on the other hand is not exclusivist like Islam. Buddha even said don’t believe me, don’t believe your holy books, don’t believe what people say, but believe only what’s true to your heart and mind, because truth can only come from inside, not outside (outside = scriptures, prophets, gods).
Q5. Why would God care about whether people believe in him or not? The creator of the universes and each and every atom in them, can’t be so narrow minded, arrogant or stupid. Because arrogance means ‘covering up negative feelings about self’ and genuine God would rather be full of self-esteem than arrogance. God’s name being ‘Al-Mutakab-bir’ is beyond me.
If no Muslim can answer my questions above within one month, I would consider all my accusations along with my questions as true and would proclaim my apostasy (Period).
Peace!
You can write your answers down here to discuss it. Maybe we can help him.
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A1. You can find numerous verses in Quran as well as quotes in tradition, telling, or ordering better said, Muslims to ask and seek knowledge wherever they can find it, even if it happens to be available in places as far as China! Possibility of finding such positivist proofs you are apparently seeking for, however, has long been refuted. You please kindly give me, this illiterate one, just one sample of absolute proof in modern science (except abstract mathematical formulas, even though whose absolute trueness is not generally recognized).
A2. First, poor and illiterate is one thing, desert area is another thing. You would better read some history regarding then Arab community, a mix of the poor and the rich, the illiterate and the elite. And the wonder Mohammad provided was in the field they mastered. Second, what about Jesus? Third, let’s suppose that your basic argument is valid. What about true academics of modern times who chose/choose to follow Islam or other religions? You accuse them all of being naïve. Think twice. They, at least, adhere to a version of religion which is still associated with the original religion while conforming to modern things, including the modern science.
A3. First, there are indications of some then-not-discovered scientific facts in the scripture. A simple search can provide you with many examples. However, one can extend your third idea, questioning some seemingly invalid scientific claims of the scripture. Religious scholars proposed some explanations for this latter criticism. Let’s take the approach implicitly proposed by Dr. Soroush, a noble Iranian scholar, though his basic idea dates back to a long time ago. In short, this approach asserts: the prophet, or more generally, the person inspired by the divine being, finds himself/herself before an absolute truth. But what he can comprehend from that is limited, for his personal capacity is limited. Just as an example: A kid observes an eclipse and shouts ‘the sun is shut down.’ Got it?
A4. You would better make your claim clearer.
A5. Let’s suppose you got a PhD from Harvard in AIDS treatment, and you are the only one throughout the whole planet who knows how to cure that. And let’s suppose one third of the population living on earth is infected with HIV. You should try to prove yourself, caring about others’ opinions regarding your authenticity and right, right? You will try to convince the people to follow you, to believe in what you prescribe. And if they fail to recognize your position, despite all the best you did to tell them the truth, you will finally get disappointed with them. God follows an almost similar procedure. Even in some verses of Quran, he makes that clear that indeed he doesn’t care; or, more exactly, caring about that is just in the best interest of the people, doing no favor to his majesty. I can’t find any trace of arrogance in this process.
Above answers are not offered to convince you to ignore apostasy and be a true Muslim. I only want to make it clear that this issue is not as simple as you put it.
Hey Mohammad,
how you doin’?
Good answers. I found some of the questions not very logical to challenge, but I myself am in agree with Q3. You know, I dont agree with you about scientific indications in scripture. That’s a good question I think; why didnt Allah tell muslims that for example how electricity works or what evolution and genetics are. I wonder. You know I’ve always been skeptic.
Those indications that you mentioned above, are so few and I believe these knowledges are not far from Muhammad’s era. By the way you cant refer to Quran as a scientific indicator too. cuz the scientific implications that muslims try to attribute to Quran are highly interpreted.
And about Soroush: I know Muhammad was not more than a human (as Allah has said in Quran) but we believe Quran hasn’t been for Muhammad’s era; it’s beyond. I cant accept that God dismissed Science because Muhammad’s lack of knowledge. I cant accept it. Allah could have explain something theorical, but didnt.
And I cant believe as Soroush says Muhammad has been an idiot.
And above all, I have another Question: Why Quranic experts always go after scientific discoveries, and why the reverse is not true: Why should’nt Scientists go after Quranic verses and find something scientific. You know what, always they say “Oh Allah also has said it in Quran before”. Its crazy. I cant believe it myself.
how are you my lord? Everything is fine here, and i hope same applies to you.
First of all, let me repeat my main point, that i just want to demonstrate that the issue/issues he is trying to challenge, is/are not this simple.
There are some indications due not bow to interpretation. For example consider this one (i heard it somewhere and i find it nice):
The Arabic term NAHL (which means honeybee) applies to both male and female bees. The verse, ETTAKHEZI (which means: choose thou…), is exclusive to the female. And the queen makes the decision regarding the location of hive.
by the way, the scripture are not meant to be a book of science, even though they may include scientific points as well. We are living in the age of science, giving the first priority to the sicence. if the Quran, for example, is meant to guide the human kind to the last day, it should care about some more important things, for example about the way the human kind can achieve the happiness.
And about the soroush, the criticism you made is well known. however, there are some arguably strong defences as well. and as i said, this is just one of the explanations.
take care
Thanks Mohammad for the reply.
I’ll think about it.
Dear Kavi and Mohammad
i would like to thank you both for your participation and bringing up this debate and on the next letter i would like to take part on this if i may …
Hi Lord Kavn,
Thanks for your 5 questions, I would like to comment on them but first, this is Adel from Yemen living in UAE (atheist & agnostic )
Q1.
It seems that you have answered the question yourself leaving no room for me to add any comment.
Q2. You are good at answering your own question.
Q3. Check mate
Q4. I don’t think we should blame religion, I would rather be proud of it as a product of human imagination when science and scientific method were out of sight,
Q5. It seems to me that some leaders and strong fighter on old ages have played the role of God and they imposed themselves on powerless people by force, those who dear to question their authority were mercilessly eliminated, no room for discussion debate or doubt. This characteristic was adapted by the religions which followed Islam in particular.
Dear Kavn the matter is so simple and all what it takes is some courage to leave all religions behind and start new life with no myth or lies, just be true to yourself and your fellow human.
Thanks
Dear Adel,
Thanks for your reply. You’re right about Q4. we’re not to blame religions, because they’ve contributed in human history, making them a better beings. But I think they dont work as before, they should be replaced by some up to date methods. We appreciate them for their era, but this shouldn’t the be same forever.
Q5. that’s what Atheists/secularists think.
I do agree with you.
Adel, by the way how is atheism in your region?
Dear Lord Kavi,
Atheism in my region , it’s hard to tell, I can talk only about myself, I was raised in Muslim family in Yemen , since I was kid I used to secretly question the credibility of religion knowing that there are more than one religion in the world and more than one sect in Islam . ironically, on my twenties I abounded rational thinking believing that human mind is limited therefore, religion can be right , I don’t remember how I convened myself of that nonsense , what I do remember is that I spent almost five years of my life in Islam custody Jumping from one sect to another starting with Muslim brotherhood to Salafi to Tabligy to Sufi to Qurani etc, to make long story short , eventually, I managed to come back to my mind and leave religion behind , then on 2002 I traveled to UAE, till now working in Dubai and Abu Dhabi , As I see the violence killing and suffering in Iraq Afghanistan Pakistan Yemen Nigeria , you name it ? All Muslim countries. I wondered should I remain passive. I started writing a book proving that Quran is manmade, which is easy task thanks to so many contradictions it contains, which can be seen to any objective Arabic reader. However, I believe in team work where discussion dialogue and debate can formulate a better result. But it’s hard to find those who share your thoughts and interest. As I see around people are busy making money or into some artificial interests, even those who consider themselves intellectual have a deferent things to keep them busy. I think I will not give up , I believe that all human are one family have one root , you are my brother Kavi. So it’s worth trying.
Attention: All Arab and Mideast Atheist
I have a plane which I hope to share with you and listen to your comment about it; its about setting up an intellectual center in either Dubai or Abu |Dhabi which can be named Arab and Mideast Free thinkers Center, the main activity would be encouraging religious secular and philosophical debate. We could host some religious freethinkers and philosophical figure and arrange the debate, invite public and let everyone take part and listen to all parties, we should be neutral , our goal is not to convince people to be atheist is rather to let people listen to both side and make up their mind.
We could also point out to public how some scientific facts and theories could be a very solid base in which we could built our morality, such as Darwin theory which indicates that human race has one root one origin, we all have one common grandfather etc.
I could start the procedure and documentation but I want to listen to your views about that…
Thanks…
Adel Alhimi
Atheist agnostic
rruaess@gmail.com